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Since we seem to be in a religion discussing mood: Pagans?


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I usually say witch, unless I'm around people who I suspect will be freaked out by the term; for said faint of heart folk I say pagan. Both terms sum it up pretty nicely for me. :D

 

Ah, yes. I live in an area with many strongly Christian folks (Catholic & Mennonite), for them I usually just say "I was raised Methodist," and leave it at that. It is the truth -- just not a particularly elaborated one. :D Although, the people in my nearby community know I am a witch, as I was sort-of-kind-of forced out of the broomcloset a few years ago. It was pretty tough going at first, but now I'm glad it happened. Much easier just being myself, KWIM?

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:thumbup1:You really have me thinking about this phrase Audrey. I think you are very wise and really enjoy your posts. I would love to hear more about your beliefs, even if in a PM. Also, my family is nearly all Irish/Scottish, I really like learning about the celtic traditions. I would love to know more about the holidays you observe. I wish you had a blog :D.

 

PM me and we'll chat. :001_smile:

I do have a blog. I just don't advertise it here anymore.

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I guess I'm mildly bothered by this thread in that it assumes a Christ-centric world view. While I have occasion to attend Church sometimes, I rarely go. But I would not call myself a pagan, as I feel that would validate a hubristic Christian theology.

 

Sounds like I'm mad, but not really. I just don't feel I want to be defined within Christian theological framework. Now if it were used in the context of the original etymology "rural", "rustic" or "of the country" - I'll own that one.

Edited by spradlin02
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While I can see what you're saying, I think this thread was an attempt to better understand some of the varied beliefs of those who identify as an Uppercase P-Pagan vs. a non-Christian lowercase p-pagan which I think is a good thing.

 

The Big P version does have a loose collective definition that many folks feel accurately describes their spiritual path. If the term doesn't fit, then by all means, don't use it. I doubt you'd find a Pagan interested in pushing the term on anyone that felt didn't apply. It's not usually in a P-Pagan's nature or beliefs to do so.

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A quick answer before I have to head out to a Girl Scout leader meeting---

 

Hellenic Neopagan here. Polytheist---the Gods are actual individual beings who are just as much a part of the universe as we are vs. everything is a different facet/representation/etc of a singular God or Source. They are not omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent or omnibenevolent. They aren't examples for us to live by (no imitatio dei--that would be hubris and severely frowned upon in my tradition). They simply are.

 

I've no interest whatsoever in magic(k), spellcasting, Wicca, etc.

 

While in retrospect I have been following this path since I was at most 10 years old that I can remember, I had no name for it until I was close to 30. I spent decades trying to make my experiences of spiritual reality fit with any form of Christianity, because I didn't think there was anything else really available to me. Then, even once I gave up that struggle I tried for years longer to find some way to at least identify as a monotheist to better fit in with my family and society. Didn't work. Acceptance of my experiences led me to where I am.

 

As to whether there is a singular Creator God who *is* omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent and omnibenevolent, I have absolutely no clue. If so, I have not seen evidence of such in my experiences of spiritual reality. As far as I can tell, if there is, it is so distant from daily human experience as to be about as relevant to how I live my life as the existence of the Horsehead Nebula is to an ant living in my front yard.

 

A couple of old posts from my husband's blog that might help (though realize these were from 2007 and, as with anyone, his and our religious understanding continues to mature--for instance you will see references to a Druidic path we integrated for a while that turned out over time to be more of an interesting side journey)

http://executivepagan.wordpress.com/2007/03/09/why-polytheism/

http://executivepagan.wordpress.com/2007/03/13/why-hellenism/

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I guess I'm mildly bothered by this thread in that it assumes a Christ-centric world view. While I have occasion to attend Church sometimes, I rarely go. But I would not call myself a pagan, as I feel that would validate a hubristic Christian theology.

 

Sounds like I'm mad, but not really. I just don't feel I want to be defined within Christian theological framework. Now if it were used in the context of the original etymology "rural", "rustic" or "of the country" - I'll own that one.

 

I'm not understanding the above part I bolded. Maybe I'm just dense today.

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Ah, yes. I live in an area with many strongly Christian folks (Catholic & Mennonite), for them I usually just say "I was raised Methodist," and leave it at that. It is the truth -- just not a particularly elaborated one. :D Although, the people in my nearby community know I am a witch, as I was sort-of-kind-of forced out of the broomcloset a few years ago. It was pretty tough going at first, but now I'm glad it happened. Much easier just being myself, KWIM?

 

That's so awesome, Audrey. I'm glad it turned out to be for the better! Oh, and I'd love to take a look at your blog too, if you don't mind sharing. :)

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I guess I'm mildly bothered by this thread in that it assumes a Christ-centric world view.

 

What other world view would a Christian come from? I was under the impression that the OP was Christian, and interested in filling some gaps in her knowledge. The poor woman can only work with what she's got! ;) Anyway, it's not unusual for Pagans to begin by describing themselves from a Christian viewpoint, because that's the world view they are moving away from themselves.

 

Rosie

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I'm not understanding the above part I bolded. Maybe I'm just dense today.

 

I can see it from the perspective of the poster wanting to be defined as what she is rather than what she isn't. To do so gives the implicit message that the mainstream religion is the "right," "real," "default" or "standard" one and any variation has to be explained and justified on the basis of why it *isn't* part of that worldview. That Christianity is the only acceptable measuring stick for what "religion" is. Also, it gives the implicit message that "if only xxx was different, so and so would be a Christian" or that one is whatever one is because one is rebelling against the system.

 

Honestly, I feel I often have to do that to get folks who are familiar with the term "Pagan" to understand that that doesn't mean I'm automatically Wiccan (as you can see from my first post here). My religion is very non-mainstream Neopagan.

 

It's pretty similar to homeschoolers being asked to explain over and over why they don't send their kids to school. A more striking equivalent might be if we were generally called "not-public-schoolers" or "non-public-school-users" rather than "homeschoolers." I had a neighbor ask me the other day if I was going to send my daughter to school now that there's a new elementary school being built. No, because I am homeschooling because I enjoy it and it works for us, not as a disappointment with that particular school.

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I can see it from the perspective of the poster wanting to be defined as what she is rather than what she isn't. To do so gives the implicit message that the mainstream religion is the "right," "real," "default" or "standard" one and any variation has to be explained and justified on the basis of why it *isn't* part of that worldview. That Christianity is the only acceptable measuring stick for what "religion" is. Also, it gives the implicit message that "if only xxx was different, so and so would be a Christian" or that one is whatever one is because one is rebelling against the system.

 

Honestly, I feel I often have to do that to get folks who are familiar with the term "Pagan" to understand that that doesn't mean I'm automatically Wiccan (as you can see from my first post here). My religion is very non-mainstream Neopagan.

 

It's pretty similar to homeschoolers being asked to explain over and over why they don't send their kids to school. A more striking equivalent might be if we were generally called "not-public-schoolers" or "non-public-school-users" rather than "homeschoolers." I had a neighbor ask me the other day if I was going to send my daughter to school now that there's a new elementary school being built. No, because I am homeschooling because I enjoy it and it works for us, not as a disappointment with that particular school.

 

Ah! I see what you're saying. I was getting confused because they were saying they didn't want to be defined with Christian theology, but then said if it was used with its original meaning (rustic, of the country) that would be okay, which I assume to be the word pagan. I couldn't figure out if they didn't want to be identified with Christian framework or Pagan framework.

 

I think I work too hard at trying to understand what people mean!

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A couple of old posts from my husband's blog that might help (though realize these were from 2007 and, as with anyone, his and our religious understanding continues to mature--for instance you will see references to a Druidic path we integrated for a while that turned out over time to be more of an interesting side journey)

http://executivepagan.wordpress.com/2007/03/09/why-polytheism/

http://executivepagan.wordpress.com/2007/03/13/why-hellenism/

 

Oh, and I wanted to mention I came across your dh's blog about a year ago one time when I was searching around trying to figure what the heck I am or am not. It was very informative.

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Oh, and I wanted to mention I came across your dh's blog about a year ago one time when I was searching around trying to figure what the heck I am or am not. It was very informative.

 

I see this comment in a lot of religious threads: "what I am".

 

Honestly, I'm not trying to invalidate anyone or start a fight (I know things don't come across the internet properly), but how is what a person is defined by what religion (or path, or whatever) or not that they follow?

 

I can understand the whole "be a good person or not" thing, but not the formation of one's basic id (id, not identification).

 

I've been thinking about this since I commented a while back on why someone would base their decision making on a book - an inanimate object written by humans, and, that wasn't received well...

 

 

a

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I see this comment in a lot of religious threads: "what I am".

 

Honestly, I'm not trying to invalidate anyone or start a fight (I know things don't come across the internet properly), but how is what a person is defined by what religion (or path, or whatever) or not that they follow?

 

I can understand the whole "be a good person or not" thing, but not the formation of one's basic id (id, not identification).

 

I've been thinking about this since I commented a while back on why someone would base their decision making on a book - an inanimate object written by humans, and, that wasn't received well...

 

 

a

 

For me, it was a matter not of letting a path define me, but looking to find a path that matched my experiences of spiritual reality, somewhere I could connect with others who had a shared worldview and language. I have been what I am since at least age 10, I just didn't have a name for it or a framework in which to go deeper along with others who shared a lot (though probably not all) of that experience. I never encountered the idea that anyone was Neopagan until I was well into adulthood, much less Hellenic (which didn't come until many years later).

 

I've heard converts to many religions describe the feeling of "coming home." I remember reading a phrase in some book on Judaism describing converts as "Jewish souls born into Gentile bodies." That rings true to me. I can look back over my life and get that I was in some way a Hellenic soul born into a "Christian" (by virtue of that being my family's religion) body. I truly "came home" when I found this path.

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I see this comment in a lot of religious threads: "what I am".

 

Honestly, I'm not trying to invalidate anyone or start a fight (I know things don't come across the internet properly), but how is what a person is defined by what religion (or path, or whatever) or not that they follow?

 

I can understand the whole "be a good person or not" thing, but not the formation of one's basic id (id, not identification).

 

I've been thinking about this since I commented a while back on why someone would base their decision making on a book - an inanimate object written by humans, and, that wasn't received well...

 

 

a

 

I can only answer from my POV. I am defined by my religion to a large extent because my faith affects how I view the world, what decisions I make, etc. Does it define me completely? Nope. It is a core part of me and my belief system. I would guess that would be the same for atheist or Pagans or insert any religion. What you believe about life, death, morals, right and wrong, etc. does define you to an extent. Should it limit you? Different question. Some religions/faith systems, etc would say yes, others no.

 

Probably doesn't answer your question which I may have misunderstood anyway. Rather than ramble on for pages upon incoherent pages, I thought I'd take a stab at it as a jumping off point.

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