Are curriculum levels accurate?

[Cera]

This may seem like an odd question but it just doesn't seem possible that the levels listed on my child's workbooks are correct, they seem so easy (for her and to me as a parent).

 

For what it's worth we are using MCP phonics and Singapore Math as well as some logic/thinking skills stuff from prufrock press and mindware.

[Laura Corin]

Singapore can be somewhat deceptive. If you are using the text books as well as the workbooks and adding in the word problems books, then you are building modes of thought which will allow your child to work on quite complex problems quite soon. It's worthwhile not skimming.

 

That being said, both my boys did something like 1A in K, 1B/2A in 1st, 2B/3A in 2nd, etc.

 

Laura

[rootsnwings]

My ds usually needs 2 grade levels ahead in most workbooks for math, vocabulary & reading comp. Just in the last year (3rd grade) has he slowed down a bit, and now seems to enjoy doing the 4th & 5th grade stuff that he's been doing for a year or so now... so he's not progressing nearly as quickly as he did when he was in 1st/2nd grade, but I feel like he's still progressing. It just gets to be a LOT of information as they get a little older. If I could do it all over again, I would probably let him stay a little closer to grade level while he was in the younger years, just to solidify the foundations, yk?

[2smartones]

I've found that, especially in early math, grade levels are very deceptive. What one publisher thinks is important for a kindergartener to know (4 quarts = 1 gallon) isn't important to another until 3rd grade. There's a lot of variance in what/how/when something is taught. I learned a long time ago not to look at the number on the outside of a book, but look at the content within the book.

[LisaKinVA]

It depends upon the curriculum and its scope & sequence.

 

Abeka starts off fast, finishes arithmetic with lots of review. Saxon starts of slow, finishes about arithmetic the same as Abeka. Teaching Textbooks is pretty "slow" overall compared to either.

 

Singapore really can't be compared to any of the above.

 

All phonics programs I've seen, really progress at about the same rate (different processes, though). I found one that has worked well for us, and is easy for me to speed up/slow down as needed and just not worried about it. Math has always been a bit more of a challenge.

 

My oldest did Singapore until about 3B, and then we became frustrated. We switched, but had to go "sideways" due to a change in the scope and sequence. My other two never used Singapore and went from Abeka into Sadlier Oxford Math 3 or Teaching Textbooks 4 after completing Abeka 1.

[Dmmetler]

I've worked in enough public schools to realize that, yes, indeed, that ridiculously easy seeming grade level labeled content IS accurate for most children. It's not that the books are easy, it's that my child really is ahead. Which is why I'm tending towards materials which aren't grade specific, and letting her extend and expand.

[Cera]

I guess I'm just wondering if the grade levels are accurate as far as what the public schools cover. She wants to go to K next year (it's half day so it would be mainly for fun) but is finishing up Singapore 1B and MCP B. She will probably get through 2A and B by fall and MCP C and maybe the D word study book (she loves workbooks and pulls them out a few times a week...I swear it isn't my idea).

 

If Singapore 2 would truly correlate to second grade I will not send her to K, the school is not known for challenging kids and she is a child who can not be bored. However, I can't believe that it is really second grade material because it seems easy.

[Dmmetler]

You may be surprised. My DD was bumped to K at age 4, after I put her in preschool because she wanted to go to school, and she has actually enjoyed K this year. It's not challenging for her in the slightest academically, even with all her teacher's efforts to provide higher level material, but she's had fun on the social and emotional side, written and illustrated dozens of books starring her stuffed dragon, enjoyed playing with manipulatives, and HAS jumped way ahead in spelling and writing (I don't know if that was due to them having phonics at school, or just because she was finally ready motor-skills wise to do a jump).

 

Now, one caveat on this-we didn't do formal academics before starting school, so it was all new to her, despite being much lower level than she'd done on her own. I don't know if she'd had the same response if she'd been used to doing the academic part of school already at a higher level.

 

But anyway, you may find that 1/2 day K fills a need in your DD and that, for the short term, she's ready to let academics slide a bit. My DD was-but she's also excited about homeschooling next year because " I don't have to keep learning what I already know!".

[Asma_08]

I guess I'm just wondering if the grade levels are accurate as far as what the public schools cover. She wants to go to K next year (it's half day so it would be mainly for fun) but is finishing up Singapore 1B and MCP B. She will probably get through 2A and B by fall and MCP C and maybe the D word study book (she loves workbooks and pulls them out a few times a week...I swear it isn't my idea).

 

If Singapore 2 would truly correlate to second grade I will not send her to K, the school is not known for challenging kids and she is a child who can not be bored. However, I can't believe that it is really second grade material because it seems easy.

 

If you think SM 2A is easy than your daughter will be really bored mathwise in K at public school. There may be other areas that might challenge her (writing, drawing, etc) but in math kids are just learning their numbers and maybe some addition, simple geometry. My son did SM2A in K and I think it does get a little tough with introduction of fractions and making sure they have all their facts memorized. Basically your average K'er will not think SM2A is easy, it's actually quite advanced work for the vast majority of students that age.

 

Third grade in our best schools here are covering topics found in SM2 (very simple multiplication, renaming addition/sub).

 

So if you just want your daughter to socialize and do arts and crafts, K will probably be fun but don't expect her to learn anything new in math.

[Dinsfamily]

I guess I'm just wondering if the grade levels are accurate as far as what the public schools cover. She wants to go to K next year (it's half day so it would be mainly for fun) but is finishing up Singapore 1B and MCP B. She will probably get through 2A and B by fall and MCP C and maybe the D word study book (she loves workbooks and pulls them out a few times a week...I swear it isn't my idea).

 

If Singapore 2 would truly correlate to second grade I will not send her to K, the school is not known for challenging kids and she is a child who can not be bored. However, I can't believe that it is really second grade material because it seems easy.

 

It really depends on the school system. Ours doesn't really teach phonics, it does "fake phonics" combined with whole word. For example, 'like' is a sight word for K'ers. All of my friends supplement phonics at home. I've heard that 1st graders are expected to know how to read fairly well when they show up to school.

 

Our district uses TERC investigations for math which would be impossible to compare with Singapore IMHO. They have completely different S&S and teach differently. However, the K'ers are just now learning numbers to 100 and basic addition/subtraction (#s to 10). With Singapore, I tend to think of 1A as Kindergarten level, 1B as first grade, 2A/2B as 2nd grade. That's just how I have it in my head even though my ds will finish 2A in Kindergarten.

 

You should be able to find out what is taught on your school's website. FWIW, I sent my ds to our church's preschool when he was 4 for fun. He had a great time even though he didn't learn anything academically. He made some good friends and got out of the house on his own for a few hours 3x/week. It was so great for him, we'll be doing the same with our middle boy this fall. Kind of a rite of passage :D.

[Crimson Wife]

I've worked in enough public schools to realize that, yes, indeed, that ridiculously easy seeming grade level labeled content IS accurate for most children. It's not that the books are easy, it's that my child really is ahead. Which is why I'm tending towards materials which aren't grade specific, and letting her extend and expand.

 

:iagree:

I was surprised to read a statistic one time that only 3% of entering kindergartners can decode words phonetically and about 1/3 don't even know all the letters of the alphabet.

 

You can check out your state's standards for each grade online. Your profile doesn't list your location, but the ones for my state (California) are here.

[Maryalice]

Once my dc learned to read, they read to learn and workbooks and curriculum got more and more scarce. They tend to bore gifted, who don't need the repetition. As for math, after they understood the basics of the 4 operations, I got them a Basic College Math (Lial), then went into college algebra, etc. books. As for most other subjects, they read real books on various subjects.

[EKS]

I do think that workbooks that are marketed to parents to use as supplements (such as those you see at the drug store) tend to have "inflated" grade levels printed on them.

 

That said, and as others have said, Singapore *is* deceptively simple. One mistake people sometimes make with Singapore is to just use the workbook and teach the algorithms the way they learned them in school instead of teaching the "Singapore way". For example, when teaching adding with regrouping, Singapore stresses the mental technique of adding the tens, then adding the ones and then adding the partial sums (or whatever they're called) together. The child should do this until it becomes automatic. Only then does the program teach the standard algorithm (adding the columns). So, yes, a K-er who had learned his or her sums within 20 could learn the standard algorithm fairly easily--but not necessarily with understanding. It takes a higher level of understanding to be able to do the mental technique, as well as a solid understanding of place value.

 

I should mention that my son took two achievement tests immediately after finishing 2B last year--the WJ-III and the ITBS (2nd grade level). His grade equivalent for math on the WJ-III was 5.1 and as a 1st grader, the percentile rank was >99.9. Similarly, his grade equivalent for on the ITBS was 4.8 with a percentile rank of 98 (compared to 2nd graders). Keep in mind that the ITBS was intended for 2nd graders and the only math he knew was what he learned in Singapore--he had mastered the 2nd grade curriculum (but nothing more), which placed him in the top 2% of 2nd graders. So, if anything, the grade levels on the Singapore books are inaccurate in the other direction.

[Cera]

My daughter does love to read and does read to learn but she also loves workbooks. I think it is because there is a clearly defined beginning and end, she can work through one and have finished something concrete. I was the same way as a kid. It is fairly obvious that she is learning the material rather than just completing it since she can apply it in every day life (reading well and using math concepts to figure out day to day problems).

 

It just surprises me that the work she is doing would be considered advanced since she is a normal 5 year old. She is currently sick in bed which I have a feeling is directly related to licking the audience divider at the science museum last Wednesday (to see what it tasted like).

[Quad Shot Academy]

 

I should mention that my son took two achievement tests immediately after finishing 2B last year--the WJ-III and the ITBS (2nd grade level). His grade equivalent for math on the WJ-III was 5.1 and as a 1st grader, the percentile rank was >99.9. Similarly, his grade equivalent for on the ITBS was 4.8 with a percentile rank of 98 (compared to 2nd graders). Keep in mind that the ITBS was intended for 2nd graders and the only math he knew was what he learned in Singapore--he had mastered the 2nd grade curriculum (but nothing more), which placed him in the top 2% of 2nd graders. So, if anything, the grade levels on the Singapore books are inaccurate in the other direction.

 

My son had a similar experience with MUS. He had just finished the 4th grade book and he scored a 7.5 grade level. I don't give credit to the curriculum, since most people think it is the most basic math program out there, I give the credit to his accuracy, his ability to apply what he has learned and knowledgeable guessing.

[EKS]

My son had a similar experience with MUS. He had just finished the 4th grade book and he scored a 7.5 grade level. I don't give credit to the curriculum, since most people think it is the most basic math program out there, I give the credit to his accuracy, his ability to apply what he has learned and knowledgeable guessing.

 

Right after my older son had finished the 6th grade MUS book, he took the WJ-III--he scored at the 99.9th percentile in math. I happened to be sitting in on the test. There was *nothing* in it that was beyond the MUS curriculum. He was simply demonstrating mastery of the material. Nothing beyond.

Edited March 9, 2010 by EKS

[zaichiki]

Singapore used these math books in their schools. They placed first, I believe, in the TIMSS and very near the top (like top 3 I think) for all of the TIMSS (international math tests with 4th and 8th graders).

 

In Singapore they begin school in January and first graders need to already be 7. So, 7 year olds use Primary 1A and 1B. Kids who are 8 by January use Primary 2A and 2B.

 

Considering that Singapore's students test higher than US students, I'd say that their math curriculum is probably more advanced than most US curricula.

 

(When I was teaching it was typical for Kindergartners to be learning to count past 20. Later in the year the concept of simple addition was introduced. 3rd graders learn to multiply in the public schools. (Some private schools start multiplication in 2nd grade.) Long division is typically learned in 4th and 5th grades.

[Cera]

(When I was teaching it was typical for Kindergartners to be learning to count past 20. Later in the year the concept of simple addition was introduced. 3rd graders learn to multiply in the public schools. (Some private schools start multiplication in 2nd grade.) Long division is typically learned in 4th and 5th grades.

 

 

This just baffles me. My three year old can easily count to 20 and add smaller amounts. I can't imagine that being the expectation for a child who is at lest 5 (as kids are by the first day of school here). I have a feeling we will be looking for a coop and skipping the K experience.

[zaichiki]

This just baffles me. My three year old can easily count to 20 and add smaller amounts. I can't imagine that being the expectation for a child who is at lest 5 (as kids are by the first day of school here).

 

Welcome to the world of "different" measuring sticks. Your "normal" is different from the "normal" of most of American society. :001_smile:

[EKS]

This just baffles me. My three year old can easily count to 20 and add smaller amounts. I can't imagine that being the expectation for a child who is at lest 5 (as kids are by the first day of school here). I have a feeling we will be looking for a coop and skipping the K experience.

 

We were thinking of putting our younger son in school for kindergarten and were checking out the local schools. One of the private schools very proudly announced that the Kers would work on counting to *6* that year. Our then 4yo was already counting to 1000 and understanding 1 to 1 correspondence and place value to that level.

 

So we checked into the math program that the public schools around here use. It was the same one. We live in a semi rural area, so the choice is either the public schools or just a handful of private schools. Even the Catholic school here uses this same curriculum.

 

Just one of the many reasons we homeschool.

 

(BTW the curriculum is TERC Investigations.)

[Dmmetler]

How does TERC manage to meet state standards then? Our state wants K kids to count to 25, add to 20, subtract with answers less than 10, skip count by 2s, 5s, and 10s, and so on. It's not super high for an advanced child, but it's far more than counting to 6!

 

Having said that, I tutor math at a public charter school, and while I know my students are (hopefully) not typical, it's pretty scary to see just how weak many non-special ed 3rd graders are.

[Dinsfamily]

How does TERC manage to meet state standards then? Our state wants K kids to count to 25, add to 20, subtract with answers less than 10, skip count by 2s, 5s, and 10s, and so on. It's not super high for an advanced child, but it's far more than counting to 6!

 

Having said that, I tutor math at a public charter school, and while I know my students are (hopefully) not typical, it's pretty scary to see just how weak many non-special ed 3rd graders are.

 

This is all being covered by TERC in our school district's K class. They only cover addition/subtraction for 3 weeks at the end of the year, though.

[EKS]

This is all being covered by TERC in our school district's K class. They only cover addition/subtraction for 3 weeks at the end of the year, though.

 

You're right, they do cover more than just counting to 6, but apparently there is a big emphasis on the number 6 (the Investigations website has a whole explanation about it).

[Dinsfamily]

You're right, they do cover more than just counting to 6, but apparently there is a big emphasis on the number 6 (the Investigations website has a whole explanation about it).

 

I couldn't find that article...do you think you could link it? I did find that they do emphasize the number 6 in the K S&S though. I watch a ps K'er afterschool and what he's learning in math baffles me. A friend of a 2nd grader was suprised at what my D-Man learned in Singapore PM 1B since his ds hadn't covered some of it.

[brownie]

We pulled my Ker and 2nd grader out when they finished the year last year. We went to a very strong public school with a challenging math program (lots of complaints from the average math kids). 2nd grade touched on a bit of multiplication but no times tables and covered regrouping for addition and subtraction. I believe this corresponds almost exactly with Singapore, which is a little stronger in teaching the multiplication and division concepts early on.

 

My 1st grader will complete Singapore 2A-3A this year with a month to spare and we've intentionally slowed down a great deal. However my older son who got slowed down early on by being in public school (where I think 2+2 was the hardest problem they got in kindergarten) had to do 3A-3B and now we recently started 4A and Life of Fred Fractions with 9 weeks to go.

 

The only thing I'll add that I wouldn't have realized if not for public school...they are looking for those math facts to be down cold. DS9 was expected to do 40 math addition or subtraction facts a minute in second grade. My kids now aim for 100 randomized multiplication facts in 3 minutes. My kids understand the concepts but I wouldn't have taken the time to develop the speed if not for starting in public school.

 

Brownie