Tell me more about Phonics Road?

[johnandtinagilbert]

Tina, I didn't see vocabulary on your blog?

What kind of vocab are you looking for?

[johnandtinagilbert]

Tina...if I take the plunge, I may need you as cruise director. :D

I'm here and happy to help.

 

I can't fold towels into swans though. You'll have to do without those; however, I do have a supply of chocolate that I do leave on my pillow when I have a rough day :blush:

[AngelBee]

I'm here and happy to help.

 

I can't fold towels into swans though. You'll have to do without those; however, I do have a supply of chocolate that I do leave on my pillow when I have a rough day :blush:

 

Chocolate sounds awesome! :lol:

[Lovedtodeath]

What kind of vocab are you looking for?

I just thought it was included in PR level 2. :confused:

[johnandtinagilbert]

The vocabulary is in the literature. A list is provided with each week and definitions are given on the DVD. I choose to discuss as we come across the words in the stories. I also tend to follow up with a picture from the internet to reinforce. If a word is something very new, I will remind before the next reading lesson.

 

Here is a list from Y3, week 2 (its in front of me): gunsmith, determined, mare, hitching post, peddler, tinward, hoisted, rafters, axle grease, bellows, anvil, hoof parings, forge, cloven hoof, anxious, tongs, charcoal, shod, vermilion, copperas, amazement.

 

Starting in Y3, I may formalize our study a little by adding flashcards and games from my online resources.

[Lovedtodeath]

The vocabulary is in the literature. A list is provided with each week and definitions are given on the DVD. I choose to discuss as we come across the words in the stories. I also tend to follow up with a picture from the internet to reinforce. If a word is something very new, I will remind before the next reading lesson.

 

Here is a list from Y3, week 2 (its in front of me): gunsmith, determined, mare, hitching post, peddler, tinward, hoisted, rafters, axle grease, bellows, anvil, hoof parings, forge, cloven hoof, anxious, tongs, charcoal, shod, vermilion, copperas, amazement.

 

Starting in Y3, I may formalize our study a little by adding flashcards and games from my online resources.

Okay, so no vocabulary exercises really, but it is there. Thanks!

[Guest aquiverfull]

The thing that's holding me back with PR is the cost. Eventually I'd have 3 at a time working on different levels. That would mean $199 + $138 for extra student packs.

What's included in the Student packs? Is there a way to re-use the workbooks?

[johnandtinagilbert]

The thing that's holding me back with PR is the cost. Eventually I'd have 3 at a time working on different levels. That would mean $199 + $138 for extra student packs.

What's included in the Student packs? Is there a way to re-use the workbooks?

The $199 does include 1-student notebook.

 

As for the student notebook, you'll receive a 3-ring binder with everything you need: dividers, literature workbook, all pages for the program, even colored pencils. The TM mirrors the Student Notebook, but includes the answers written in the correct places.

 

Homeschooling6 spoke with Mrs. Beers, who said to buy a NB for each child, and do not copy or you'll break copyright laws.

 

Since I started 3dc in year 1 this year, you could call me a cheater b/c I had them mirror a student nb on our own paper. I just couldn't afford it otherwise. I will buy a notebook for each child, though, in the future. The convenience will outway the expense, particularly b/c I won't have to buy anything for science or Latin...I already own everything :tongue_smilie:

 

I'd suggest used, but it is very hard to find. People don't sell this program. Coming from me, a broke and frugal woman, I'd say it's worth the cost. I would rather have spent the $$ on this years ago, instead of less expensive alternatives. I'm sad to say The Elders "paid the price" in a far worse way when we played catch up games.

 

Sorry not to have better news.

[Lovedtodeath]

I don't think that you necessarily need the notebooks. The website says that you don't need them for an older student using the first two levels.

[Guest aquiverfull]

Thanks Tina! I understand what you are saying about the program being well worth it. It might not be a whole lot cheaper to go another route with my kids, since most programs out there are workbooks that would need to be replaced later anyways. $69 isn't a bad price for complete LAs for one child. I'll have to think some more about it. I sent you a PM with some more questions about PR. :)

[LoveBaby]

 

Homeschooling6 spoke with Mrs. Beers, who said to buy a NB for each child, and do not copy or you'll break copyright laws.

 

Since I started 3dc in year 1 this year, you could call me a cheater b/c I had them mirror a student nb on our own paper. I just couldn't afford it otherwise. I will buy a notebook for each child, though, in the future. The convenience will outway the expense, particularly b/c I won't have to buy anything for science or Latin...I already own everything :tongue_smilie:

 

I'd suggest used, but it is very hard to find. People don't sell this program. Coming from me, a broke and frugal woman, I'd say it's worth the cost. I would rather have spent the $$ on this years ago, instead of less expensive alternatives. I'm sad to say The Elders "paid the price" in a far worse way when we played catch up games.

 

Sorry not to have better news.

 

This is what Mrs. Beers suggested to me as well. To have my older students mirror a student notebook page on lined paper. I will probably go ahead and purchase extra student notebooks for level 2 for my children though, since convenience will be nice + by the time I bought 3 sets of workbooks for writing/grammar/spelling/handwriting etc. I would be at the same outlay anyway but without everything being integrated.

 

OK...I just played around with numbers for a minute. Assuming I use PR with all 5 children over a 4 year period *and* purchase each of them their own set of student materials each year, then my cost will average out to $96/year/student for a complete LA program. Just playing around with some of the other LA options out there that would need to be pieced together and then somehow implemented in our large family, $96 seems like a pretty small price to pay. I'm also thinking that as I become more familiar with the program my time savings will be immeasurable!!

 

The $96 is averaging the cost of the teacher's materials for each level across all 5 students and 4 years.

Edited February 18, 2010 by LoveBaby

[Guest aquiverfull]

I don't think that you necessarily need the notebooks. The website says that you don't need them for an older student using the first two levels.

 

That's good to know. Thanks! I'll be using it with younger children though, so we won't be accelerating through the levels. Like I said to Tina though, when you think about it $69 isn't really bad for complete LAs. That's not including the teacher's guide of course, but technically that cost would be spread out over 3 kids.

[Lovedtodeath]

 

isn't really bad for complete LAs.

:iagree:I was realizing how much I was spending piecing it all together and that is why I thought I should go ahead and switch.

[johnandtinagilbert]

:iagree:I was realizing how much I was spending piecing it all together and that is why I thought I should go ahead and switch.

:rofl::laugh: I'm lol b/c if ya'll knew me in real life....I don't spend on anything! Dh actually tells me he wishes I wasn't so frugal sometimes. I feel that sticker shock too...that's why it took me so long to go for it...poor Mrs. Beers. She probably thought I was a stalker at convention!

[greenmamato3]

so are literature suggestions and guides are included in PR {i'm thinking in terms of Read Alouds}? what about reading suggestions for the child to be doing ? and are there study guides for that included?? i'm confused now that i'm hearing a few references to "literature" when all along i thought PR was just limited to phonics, spelling, grammar, writing, copywork. :confused: did i miss something?

[Guest aquiverfull]

I think in year 2 there is a Little House Study. It looks to me that one book is studied a year, but I'm not sure about that. I see they use Carry on Mr.Bowditch in the last year. You could look at the samples at the website for more info, and I'm sure Tina can fill us in. :)

[johnandtinagilbert]

so are literature suggestions and guides are included in PR {i'm thinking in terms of Read Alouds}? what about reading suggestions for the child to be doing ? and are there study guides for that included?? i'm confused now that i'm hearing a few references to "literature" when all along i thought PR was just limited to phonics, spelling, grammar, writing, copywork. :confused: did i miss something?

In PR1, there is no literature study, save illustrating readers (designed in the program).

 

In PR2, there is a year long study of The Little House in the Big Woods, complete with instructions for study and notebook to complete. You discuss vocabulary, read from the book, then complete daily projects based on the story. Some days are ten minutes, others 20 or 30. It all falls into the LA category, as the lit. study includes lit. analysis, dictation, outlining, paraphrasing, vocab., some crafts, etc...all the stuff I mentioned as far as writing components, etc.

 

At this point, they can read Little House, they don't need readers, so they can also enjoy other books from the library or to further study in other areas. We usually read a science, history and pleasure selection each week. That, and the read aloud practice they get from presenting their notebooks (we read back whatever we entered daily, as review and reading practice).

 

Y3 has 2 studies (which goes along very nicely when in American history) on Robert Fulton and Benjamin West and His Cat Grimalkin. Both include literary study guides and activities.

 

It's ALL there...that's why I love it! :)

 

ps the books are included in the price...forgot to mention that.

Edited February 23, 2010 by johnandtinagilbert
ETA: And, the books are included in the price...forgot to mention that

[Heather in VA]

Whoo Hooo!!!! My PR Level 1 just arrived. I'm going to hide somewhere with it and check it out. I'll have a preliminary impressions post by tonight I hope.

 

Heather

[Guest aquiverfull]

Woohoo! Can't wait to hear your thoughts Heather! :)

[Heather in VA]

Ok - first thoughts.... Just a few hours in so there will be more updates later.

 

The materials are of excellent quality. Everything is nicely wrapped, high quality card stock for the cards, decent weight paper for the sheets etc. Nice thick ziploc-type bags to wrap the materials.

 

I watched the introduction and the lessons for Weeks 1 - 5. Weeks 1 - 4 is one dvd "lesson" and Week 5 is on it's own. There is truly no way that someone could not understand what she's explaining. Her lessons take the 'Phonics Road for Dummies' to the extreme. This is both a plus and a minus. On the plus side, I know I'll never wonder what I'm supposed to do. On the minus side, for some of this stuff I really don't need this much explanation. But I found that I could fast forward once I got the point. For example, she goes through teaching the formation of EVERY letter. Yikes. For me that wasn't critical since 1) I know the clock face way to teach letters and 2) my daughter can write her letters. So I watched a few and moved on.

 

The first 4 weeks each 51 phonograms - the 25 single alphabet letters, 'qu' (instead of q since you can't have q without u) and then ones like 'er', 'ir' etc. All of these are ones my daughter has learned but not in the PR way. For example, she knows that 'a' makes more than one sound but didn't learn the 3 sounds in the PR order. I went through the cards with her today (just the single letters) and after 3 times through she got it no problem. She joined me to watch the week 5 DVD lesson. I was surprised to find her interested in it. The lessons are pretty dull to me - although very informative - but she sat and watched and answered the rhetorical questions Mrs. Beers threw out. It was kind of funny. She's definitely excited to use PR and just through watching the DVD starting being able to predict the markings on the word list she was using for demonstration. I was concerned about that because sometimes she has trouble with that kind of analysis.

 

I am not at all sorry I didn't use PR to learn to read. Yes we are covering already learned material but covering it in terms of spelling and analysis is different than learning sounds to read and I think all of it at once could get overwhelming to a child. If you knew you were going to use PR, you could always teach them the phonogram cards as you learn to read but save all the writing, spelling, marking and rules for later. That's just me. I know plenty of people have used this method (PR, SWR, AAS etc) to learn to read from the beginning, but I'm not sorry we didn't.

 

Negatives that I see so far: Mrs. Beers doesn't really give kids a lot of credit or respect in teaching the teacher. I'm sure it comes from years of classroom teaching (her DVDs have a very 'schoolteacher' feel to them) but I started getting annoyed her 'children just don't understand this' comments including assuming that a 1st grader wouldn't understand if she said right hand or left hand. Sure some might not but most will. I just found it odd that here she was promoting a program that dumps a lot in kids laps quickly and yet didn't seem to really think kids understand a lot. Also, I really hate having to cut up all these cards. Yes - this is a short term problem and can't be helped but yuck LOL. I can see why some people feel trapped by the program. I think that was a comment in some of the 'why did you stop' posts. She gives you such detailed instructions that some may feel stuck and uncomfortable veering from the plan. I've been schooling long enough that nothing makes me feel that way anymore so I'm not worried about that.

 

Ok - more later. Hope this helps someone.

 

Heather

[Lovedtodeath]

Thanks Heather. I don't know how soon I will look at mine. I do want to finish our current level of AAS before we break out PR, because we are making good progress.

 

I am thinking at this point that I will use the phonogram cards and the readers with DS, but use OPG as our phonics program PreK-1st. I haven't seen it yet though, so that can change, but I am throwing my thoughts out there since you mentioned it.;)

 

A clock face way of writing seems very foreign for a 4 or 5 year old. I guess I will need to see that.:confused:

[johnandtinagilbert]

AWESOME evaluation. Thank you. Can I borrow this for my blog?

Ok - first thoughts.... Just a few hours in so there will be more updates later.

 

The materials are of excellent quality. Everything is nicely wrapped, high quality card stock for the cards, decent weight paper for the sheets etc. Nice thick ziploc-type bags to wrap the materials.

 

I watched the introduction and the lessons for Weeks 1 - 5. Weeks 1 - 4 is one dvd "lesson" and Week 5 is on it's own. There is truly no way that someone could not understand what she's explaining. Her lessons take the 'Phonics Road for Dummies' to the extreme. This is both a plus and a minus. On the plus side, I know I'll never wonder what I'm supposed to do. On the minus side, for some of this stuff I really don't need this much explanation. But I found that I could fast forward once I got the point. For example, she goes through teaching the formation of EVERY letter. Yikes. For me that wasn't critical since 1) I know the clock face way to teach letters and 2) my daughter can write her letters. So I watched a few and moved on. Coming from me, now, I hear that! Love that FF! Imagine though, if this was your first child, just teaching how to read, you have little to no teaching experience...it would help, no? This also cuts down in PR2. She assumes you know by then :)

 

The first 4 weeks each 51 phonograms - the 25 single alphabet letters, 'qu' (instead of q since you can't have q without u) and then ones like 'er', 'ir' etc. All of these are ones my daughter has learned but not in the PR way. For example, she knows that 'a' makes more than one sound but didn't learn the 3 sounds in the PR order. I went through the cards with her today (just the single letters) and after 3 times through she got it no problem. She joined me to watch the week 5 DVD lesson. I was surprised to find her interested in it. The lessons are pretty dull to me - although very informative - but she sat and watched and answered the rhetorical questions Mrs. Beers threw out. It was kind of funny. She's definitely excited to use PR and just through watching the DVD starting being able to predict the markings on the word list she was using for demonstration. I was concerned about that because sometimes she has trouble with that kind of analysis. I have a friend whose dc watch every video. They like it :001_huh:

...

Negatives that I see so far: Mrs. Beers doesn't really give kids a lot of credit or respect in teaching the teacher. I'm sure it comes from years of classroom teaching (her DVDs have a very 'schoolteacher' feel to them) but I started getting annoyed her 'children just don't understand this' comments including assuming that a 1st grader wouldn't understand if she said right hand or left hand. Sure some might not but most will. I just found it odd that here she was promoting a program that dumps a lot in kids laps quickly and yet didn't seem to really think kids understand a lot. I wonder if there was K when she began teaching? Dh is 10 years older than I, and he never attended K, nor did any of his sibs...Also, I really hate having to cut up all these cards. Yes - this is a short term problem and can't be helped but yuck LOL. I can see why some people feel trapped by the program. I think that was a comment in some of the 'why did you stop' posts. She gives you such detailed instructions that some may feel stuck and uncomfortable veering from the plan. I've been schooling long enough that nothing makes me feel that way anymore so I'm not worried about that. That makes sense to me, now that you put it that way. :iagree:

 

Ok - more later. Hope this helps someone.

 

Heather

That was great! Thank you!

[johnandtinagilbert]

Thanks Heather. I don't know how soon I will look at mine. I do want to finish our current level of AAS before we break out PR, because we are making good progress.

 

I am thinking at this point that I will use the phonogram cards and the readers with DS, but use OPG as our phonics program PreK-1st. I haven't seen it yet though, so that can change, but I am throwing my thoughts out there since you mentioned it.;)

 

A clock face way of writing seems very foreign for a 4 or 5 year old. I guess I will need to see that.:confused:

Make a paper plate clock, or use the one in the kitchen ;)

 

start at 2 o'clock on the clock and go counterclockwise for all letters with short, round parts (a, c, d, g, o, qu)

 

cross t's and f's from 10-2

 

e starts at 9-3, then come around counterclockwise, stop at 4

 

It gets more specific as to using the paper (midlines, etc.), but that's the gist.

[Guest aquiverfull]

What a great review Heather! Thank you so much!!!

[Heather in VA]

AWESOME evaluation. Thank you. Can I borrow this for my blog? That was great! Thank you!

 

Sure if you want. Hope it helps someone.

 

Heather

[Lovedtodeath]

Make a paper plate clock, or use the one in the kitchen ;)

 

start at 2 o'clock on the clock and go counterclockwise for all letters with short, round parts (a, c, d, g, o, qu)

 

cross t's and f's from 10-2

 

e starts at 9-3, then come around counterclockwise, stop at 4

 

It gets more specific as to using the paper (midlines, etc.), but that's the gist.

But little kids aren't familiar with where times are on a clock, so I am not sure how it helps them?

[johnandtinagilbert]

But little kids aren't familiar with where times are on a clock, so I am not sure how it helps them?

It gives a visual start and stop. The clock is ahead of them, on your teaching surface, whatever...just a visual aid :)

 

I actually write on the clock face of my kitchen clock, using a vis-a-vis...makes beautifully rounded letters :tongue_smilie:

[Lovedtodeath]

OH! I see now, thanks!

[lovinmomma]

My kids don't know how to tell time and even didn't recognize any numbers above 7 or 8 and yet they have taken to the clock face really well. It's just a visual clue.

[Lovedtodeath]

Thanks Julie. That helps a lot!

[Aubrey]

I just spent the whole afternoon reading this entire thread & all the outside links. I think I have a love-hate relationship w/ new curriculum, lol.

 

I've got a 9yo in 3rd g now & a 6yo in 1st g. We did Alphaphonics, fwiw, & they're both reading above g-level. We've used FLL 1/2 off & on but haven't ever finished the book because...well...it's a little slow & simple. That said, I'm not incredibly confident about their grammar skills. I mean, they can parrot back to me the definitions of most of the parts of speech, but they can't confidently & consistently identify them. Looking at PR4 for ds--who just finished reading Mr. Bowditch--I'm sure the grammar would be too much for him. (I later realized she recommends starting w/ Level 1 no matter what.)

 

For spelling, we've been using AVKO, which I love in *theory* but in practice? Ds & I are both really bored w/ it. I don't know if he's a good speller or not. If I had to guess, I'd say...maybe so? But I don't have a good guage for measuring that.

 

Ds has been thr the entire HWOT program, & I'm satisfied w/ his hw most days, although he should really be using cursive more often than he is. I'd intended to move on to calligraphy, but we haven't done that yet--the 2 babies have kind-of derailed a lot of our plans for the last yr or so, lol.

 

Anyway...our LA plans are mish-mashy & hardly ever get done, partly for that reason, partly because I don't love anything we've got. (But, really, what's to love about grammar? As an aside, though, dh said last night--while I was making him sit thr the sample dvd, LOL--"They're YOUR children. They OUGHT to know grammar!")

 

So I'm a little bit of a snap decision-maker, esp w/ things like curric. I just can't stand to waste time researching, wondering, worrying, when I *could* be learning about it 1st person. Luckily, I don't like looking at new curric, so this hasn't cost us too much $ so far. :lol:

 

That said, I'd decided we needed PR2 before watching the dvd last night. After seeing it, I was really hooked. The lady was not annoying, & while it got boring, she managed to teach me something new about the hist of English, AND it was something interesting! :D I told the dc all about the parts I liked this AM!

 

I chose PR2 for a starting point for several reasons. PR4 looked too hard for ds9. PR3...he might be able to do, but I honestly wasn't sure. FLL has had zero parsing. PR1 looked WAY too easy for both of them, & I'd wanted to do a Little House unit study this yr anyway.

 

All that was left was to figure out if I was really willing to fork over $100-$200 (depending on new/used, etc.). Then I see the rec to start w/ PR1, & that just about shut me down. I get so frustrated w/ things like that!

 

My concern (besides $)? If PR1 is really too boring/easy for them, we may not ever even try PR2, which I'm really interested in.

 

Can any of y'all help? (Talking me into another prog is ok, too. I *wasn't* looking at this until a neighbor called & asked me what I thought of it. Darn hs'ing neighbors!) :glare: :lol:

[Aubrey]

You know, I hate to be negative, and I am sure that PR is a wonderful program in its own right. But, I absolutely do not agree with the PR lady’s presentation. In the first part, she tries to tell us that written English is as unfamiliar to a young child as a Latin paragraph would be to an English speaking adult. Um, nooo, English is our native tongue. Our children have been listening to English since before they were born. (in our wombs) it’s only natural that they will pick up on it much easier than a foreign language. That’s why narrartion and copywork work so well. It’s using our native language and building upon the skills that our children naturally posses. It really doesn’t have to be so complicated.

 

This stuck out to me of all the posts I've read. Spoken English is our native language, as someone else pointed out. Written English has absolutely NO logical (natural) relationship to spoken English--in fact, as Beers points out in the dvd, written English is technically a Latin alphabet.

 

Think of it this way. The first people to start writing English down chose the Latin alphabet. Imagine, though, if they'd chosen Greek. You can't look at something in the Greek alphabet & read it, even if it's just a transliteration of an English word or phrase. You'd have to be taught the letters & their (arbitrary) relationship to sounds.

 

The 't' sound just doesn't inherently LOOK like 't'--we give it that meaning.

 

I think Beers' point is exactly what you're trying to say--we as parents/teachers *forget* that written English is foreign to a child in the same way that a foreign language is foreign to us. Again, put the story of the 3 pigs in front of a non-reader w/out pics & put the same story in front of an adult, but transliterated w/ Greek letters (& no pics), & I think the adult & the child would be in the same boat. :001_smile:

[Lovedtodeath]

Aubrey, I intended to start with PR 2 and was assured by two people that it would be possible. We would have completed 3 levels of AAS by the time we would start PR 2 though, so that factors in for us considering that AAS is also Orton-Gillingham based spelling.

 

One person wrote to my email after seeing me ask about it on the yahoo group to tell me that her sister successfully started with PR 3. Her son was good with phonics and spelling. I can forward the email to you if you want. I asked her why she replied to me personally instead of the group, and she said that it just automatically did it that way.

 

I went ahead and picked up level one because it was a very good used price. Selling 2 levels of AAS, not buying AAS level 3 and having all of the phonogram cards provided with PR 1 basically pays for it. Now I feel like I should have not bought it on principal. :tongue_smilie:

 

Anyway...our LA plans are mish-mashy & hardly ever get done, partly for that reason, partly because I don't love anything we've got.

Yes, that is us too. Now, we are doing pretty good ATM, but I love that our goal is to get to PR 2.

 

We intend to start PR 2 when Emily is 8. I would highly doubt that any 6 year old would not need PR 1. It teaches a lot of spelling. It covers 3 levels of All About Spelling in one year, and probably more difficult words than that. You might possibly be able to use How to Teach Spelling in order to remediate the spelling that they missed by not doing level 1. Like I said for me the cost of PR 1 ended up working out even though I started out dead set against starting with it. lol Maybe you could start out with level 2 and then go ahead and remediate spelling after that.

 

How soon are you wanting to start? I shouldn't need PR 1 for very long, and then won't need it again for a year.

 

Have you looked into LLATL? I have heard some say that the way PR pulls in all LA reminds them of that.

Edited February 25, 2010 by Lovedtodeath

[Heather in VA]

Well you have a 1st grader right? I wouldn't move to PR2 with a 6 year old without doing PR1 (even if you do it quickly) first. If it was just your 9 year old that would be different but a 6 year old will need to go through learning those sounds and markings etc. So if you get it for your 6 year old you could scan and pick out what you need to do for your 9 year old without adding extra cost. I am not an expert but that's what I would think. I just started PR1 with a 6 1/2 year old who is reading well and she will definitely be using it at a faster pace but will get something out of it for sure.

 

Heather

[Aubrey]

Aubrey, I intended to start with PR 2 and was assured by two people that it would be possible. We would have completed 3 levels of AAS by the time we would start PR 2 though, so that factors in for us considering that AAS is also Orton-Gillingham based spelling.

 

One person wrote to my email after seeing me ask about it on the yahoo group to tell me that her sister successfully started with PR 3. Her son was good with phonics and spelling. I can forward the email to you if you want. I asked her why she replied to me personally instead of the group, and she said that it just automatically did it that way.

 

I went ahead and picked up level one because it was a very good used price. Selling 2 levels of AAS, not buying AAS level 3 and having all of the phonogram cards provided with PR 1 basically pays for it. Now I feel like I should have not bought it on principal. :tongue_smilie:

 

Yes, that is us too. Now, we are doing pretty good ATM, but I love that our goal is to get to PR 2.

 

We intend to start PR 2 when Emily is 8. I would highly doubt that any 6 year old would not need PR 1. It teaches a lot of spelling. It covers 3 levels of All About Spelling in one year, and probably more difficult words than that. You might possibly be able to use How to Teach Spelling in order to remediate the spelling that they missed by not doing level 1. Like I said for me the cost of PR 1 ended up working out even though I started out dead set against starting with it. lol Maybe you could start out with level 2 and then go ahead and remediate spelling after that.

 

How soon are you wanting to start? I shouldn't need PR 1 for very long, and then won't need it again for a year.

 

Have you looked into LLATL? I have heard some say that the way PR pulls in all LA reminds them of that.

 

LOL--how did I forget that dd is in 1st g *now*? :lol: Well...she's been going thr AVKO w/ us & hanging, so her spelling is very good. Still...I hadn't thought thr the fact that I was thinking of skipping the 1st g level for a 1st g kid.

 

I was thinking about next yr when she'll be 2nd g, but the funny thing is, I'd decided that I should probably start *now,* since we're really not doing anything else (productive).

 

Wow. I feel *so* dumb. :001_huh: :lol:

[Lovedtodeath]

lol. I can totally see how you could do that. I often forget what grade level we are on, if I really know to begin with. My first reply to you left out your first grader altogether. I had to go back and edit. lol

 

Sell ALL of your LA that you have used and then you can feel free to buy PR 1. :D No one wants my Sonlight LA. I need to start some threads asking about SL LA so that someone will want it.:lol:

Edited February 25, 2010 by Lovedtodeath

[Aubrey]

lol. I can totally see how you could do that. I often forget what grade level we are on, if I really know to begin with. My first reply to you left out your first grader altogether. I had to go back and edit. lol

 

Sell ALL of your LA that you have used and then you can feel free to buy PR 1. :D No one wants my Sonlight LA. I need to start some threads asking about SL LA so that someone will want it.:lol:

 

You know, other than FLL, I've never really bought anything. HOWT, but those are all used up. I think the savings over the past few yrs should justify PR, right? Now just to convince dh that I've saved over $200 on LA. :lol:

[Lovedtodeath]

BTW... I looked up The Latin Road in TWTM and it schedules it starting in 7th or 8th grade. So... 4th grade with PR level 2, 5th grade with 3, 6th grade with 4... and you are still on track to start The Latin Road at the recommended time!

[Aubrey]

BTW... I looked up The Latin Road in TWTM and it schedules it starting in 7th or 8th grade. So... 4th grade with PR level 2, 5th grade with 3, 6th grade with 4... and you are still on track to start The Latin Road at the recommended time!

 

That's funny--although I've read the whole book, I haven't *read* past the grammar stage & its recs, if that makes sense.

 

I read the 1st ed when I was pg w/ #1 & when he was old enough, I followed those rec's. When I found out part way thr that 1st yr about SOTW, I was worried about spending the $, since I'd already bought the encyclopedias, etc rec'd in the 1st ed. Eventually I did, though, & hist got so. much. better.

 

Until last yr, I'd been doing the same piecemeal thing w/ science but read about NOEO, worried about the $, finally bought it, & LOVE teaching sc now.

 

My record's pretty good so far, huh? :lol: And the pattern does seem to dictate that I should surrender the piecemeal LA & go for something AIO. The $'s just still SO painful, though--ack! But there's one on the S&S boards for about 1/2p that I keep checking to make sure is still avail.

 

Thanks for the help (Heather, too!) w/ figuring out levels, though. I'm at least to the next step of the decision-making process. :001_huh: :lol:

[Homeschooling6]

Negatives that I see so far: Mrs. Beers doesn't really give kids a lot of credit or respect in teaching the teacher. I'm sure it comes from years of classroom teaching (her DVDs have a very 'schoolteacher' feel to them) but I started getting annoyed her 'children just don't understand this' comments including assuming that a 1st grader wouldn't understand if she said right hand or left hand. Sure some might not but most will. I just found it odd that here she was promoting a program that dumps a lot in kids laps quickly and yet didn't seem to really think kids understand a lot.

 

I took this more as, be sensitive to the child. Some may pick it up quickly and others may not. Sometimes we as parents forget how hard it is to learn to read and spell.

 

When my first ds was learning how to read, I use to get so frustrated because he could sound out c-a-t. I see why, she is reminding the parent:).

 

Also for those who are starting with a five year old, maturity level can come into play too(for some not all). I have a five year old who is very immature:001_huh:.

 

Blessings,

 

[johnandtinagilbert]

 

Have you looked into LLATL? I have heard some say that the way PR pulls in all LA reminds them of that.

FWIW...I can't stand LLATL and you know I :001_wub: PR...my opinion is first glance though. I looked through it, read many lessons and didn't appreciate the layout. Too scattered and spiral for me. That was about 8 years ago, though.

 

lol. I can totally see how you could do that. I often forget what grade level we are on, if I really know to begin with. My first reply to you left out your first grader altogether. I had to go back and edit. lol

 

Sell ALL of your LA that you have used and then you can feel free to buy PR 1. No one wants my Sonlight LA. I need to start some threads asking about SL LA so that someone will want it.

I do that all the time with my Big 3! I had to sell all my RS to get all my PR this year :) Grades 2-8! This year, I got nothin' to sell :001_huh:

 

You know, other than FLL, I've never really bought anything. HOWT, but those are all used up. I think the savings over the past few yrs should justify PR, right? Now just to convince dh that I've saved over $200 on LA.

Right. I like convincing about all the money I "save" too!:lol:

 

That's funny--although I've read the whole book, I haven't *read* past the grammar stage & its recs, if that makes sense.

 

I read the 1st ed when I was pg w/ #1 & when he was old enough, I followed those rec's. When I found out part way thr that 1st yr about SOTW, I was worried about spending the $, since I'd already bought the encyclopedias, etc rec'd in the 1st ed. Eventually I did, though, & hist got so. much. better.

 

Until last yr, I'd been doing the same piecemeal thing w/ science but read about NOEO, worried about the $, finally bought it, & LOVE teaching sc now.

 

My record's pretty good so far, huh? :lol: And the pattern does seem to dictate that I should surrender the piecemeal LA & go for something AIO. The $'s just still SO painful, though--ack! But there's one on the S&S boards for about 1/2p that I keep checking to make sure is still avail.

 

Thanks for the help (Heather, too!) w/ figuring out levels, though. I'm at least to the next step of the decision-making process. :001_huh: :lol:

I know just what you mean. I was so piece meal..now I'm easy:) PR, TOG, Noeo/Apologia..now math...yeah we use a zillion of those! And God help me (please) here comes high school. I think I'm shootin' for DVD math (Chalkdust - Pongo style).

[lovemykids]

This stuck out to me of all the posts I've read. Spoken English is our native language, as someone else pointed out. Written English has absolutely NO logical (natural) relationship to spoken English--in fact, as Beers points out in the dvd, written English is technically a Latin alphabet.

 

Think of it this way. The first people to start writing English down chose the Latin alphabet. Imagine, though, if they'd chosen Greek. You can't look at something in the Greek alphabet & read it, even if it's just a transliteration of an English word or phrase. You'd have to be taught the letters & their (arbitrary) relationship to sounds.

 

The 't' sound just doesn't inherently LOOK like 't'--we give it that meaning.

 

I think Beers' point is exactly what you're trying to say--we as parents/teachers *forget* that written English is foreign to a child in the same way that a foreign language is foreign to us. Again, put the story of the 3 pigs in front of a non-reader w/out pics & put the same story in front of an adult, but transliterated w/ Greek letters (& no pics), & I think the adult & the child would be in the same boat. :001_smile:

 

In my mind, within the context of this argument, the child would have already been familiar the letters and sounds. I am sure that most children that are able to do copywork would at least know the letters and sounds; so therefore, it would not look like Greek to them. (she states that the child could copy the passage) It may be intimidating, yes, I get that, but it would be much easier for a child to make connections on his own since it is our mother tongue we are referring to.

I do believe in phonics training though, and I like to use a blend of phonics and whole words to teach reading. Again, I am not knocking the program PR, I only stated that I disagree with her analogy. :D

[Lovedtodeath]

I started watching. Brilliant. Brilliant.

 

If DD was taught to write with a clock face, oh the troubles it would have saved.

 

Calling the letters by their sounds is so natural and makes so much sense. But it isn't vertical phonics in a confusing way... because the reasons for which sound are given. (Some vertical phonics programs just have the child use each, and every, of the sounds until the word sounds right.)

 

It just makes more sense to teach this way, even if it ends up being slower... but you know what? I don't think it will. I can't wait to use it with Jake so that I can give it a true review, using it from the beginning.

 

Oh, I could copy a sentence in Chinese and still not have a clue. I don't think she was insinuating that the child would know anything at all to begin with.

[lovemykids]

I started watching. Brilliant. Brilliant.

 

If DD was taught to write with a clock face, oh the troubles it would have saved.

 

Calling the letters by their sounds is so natural and makes so much sense. But it isn't vertical phonics in a confusing way... because the reasons for which sound are given. (Some vertical phonics programs just have the child use each, and every, of the sounds until the word sounds right.)

 

It just makes more sense to teach this way, even if it ends up being slower... but you know what? I don't think it will. I can't wait to use it with Jake so that I can give it a true review, using it from the beginning.

 

Oh, I could copy a sentence in Chinese and still not have a clue. I don't think she was insinuating that the child would know anything at all to begin with.

 

.

[Lovedtodeath]

Yes, but my point is that most children of English speaking parents do know letters and sounds by the time they are able to write letters.

Not in this program though. They are taught the sounds at the same time they are taught to write them.

 

 

Some children teach themselves to read, why? Because this is our language, not Latin, Greek, or Chinese.....

 

Oh, I see, of course...

 

 

I am excited for you though! Yay! I hope it works out, it certainly sounds like it will. :)

The only thing is if Emily balks at it. She balks at anything new of course. Sigh. I am not sure how that aspect is going to work.

[lovemykids]

Not in this program though. They are taught the sounds at the same time they are taught to write them.

 

Oh, I see, of course...

 

The only thing is if Emily balks at it. She balks at anything new of course. Sigh. I am not sure how that aspect is going to work.

 

.

[Lovedtodeath]

What I am picturing is starting this in preschool using sandpaper letters instead of teaching him how to write them. He was already saying the letter sounds because he was watching the DVD with me. My little genious!;)

[lovinmomma]

What I am picturing is starting this in preschool using sandpaper letters instead of teaching him how to write them. He was already saying the letter sounds because he was watching the DVD with me. My little genious!;)

 

Exactly! They can learn them earlier, but using this method. The vertical phonics. It kinda sucks to go back and correct it. They can learn them using large motor or just the cards, etc. Ideally, it would be best not to teach them the sounds unless you are teaching them all of the sounds for each letter. Rarely are things ideal, though.

[lovemykids]

.

Edited February 12, 2013 by lovethislife
added more, but so finished with this thread. LOL.

[Heather in VA]

My kids all knew their letters and sounds before going into formal education. The older two went to Montessori school (3yrs - K) where they teach them to call the letters by their sounds rather than their name. My youngest who just started PR1 is in 1st grade and can read very well - she obviously knows her letters and their sounds. None of them had issues moving to calling them by their sounds. It took my dd about 30 minutes this week to go from traditional letter and sounds calling to knowing all 51 of the phonograms introduced in the first 4 weeks and all the sounds (in the PR) order.

 

While I completely disagree with Mrs. Beers little spiel about English being as foreign as Latin to a young child, I don't think her feelings on this affect the program at all. I do get the feeling this won't be the last thing that Mrs. Beers says that I don't agree with, but the program as far as I can tell is removed from being forced to believe everything she says in order to teach it and be successful. Of course it's not for every child, but if you think it might be for you, don't let this excerpt chase you away.

 

Heather