Parent Involvement in High School

[Nan in Mass]

continuing...

 

We totally take a break on Sunday. Everyone needs SOME time off. That's ours. They know they can depend on it. No homework' date=' no housework, no yard work. They can have time to do whatever they enjoy (after church anyway). That is a good idea. We haven't done this. We have a month in the summer when we escape from the people world and go sailing, but the children get some of their reading out of the way then. We tend to treat Sat. this way, except we have chores. I'll have to think about this one because you are right. It is important.

 

Then, academically, we gave ours what we thought were decent programs and/or books and went over with them what was expected (hw done, no grades for it - all readings done and be willing to discuss them at any time, not just for a test - all tests taken when an adult is present, all work done by the end of the school year). The first couple of years it took some monitoring and reminding or else they'd fall behind. This year there's very little reminding needed with my 12th and 10 graders. My 8th grader is still 13/14, so needs some age appropriate guidance, but is definitely showing huge amounts of success with it even with lapses.

 

We occasionally discuss content of what they are learning, but only when they miss something on a test or come to us with questions for "formal" discussions. Otherwise, they are simply expected to know it when we have our regular conversations. This can range from "To be or not to be," to "which direction does the earth rotate?" We are sieve-brained as a family, so I am not sure how practical this would be. I think perhaps I should make more of this. I try to make a link between what they are learning and our lives, but I've done it more the other way - by adapting what they learn to be things that have meaning in our lives rather than by making an effort as we live to discuss what they are learning and provide them with an opportunity to remember it.

 

They all do the SAT/ACT questions of the day and enjoy that they get most of them right. Any they get wrong they discuss among each other first, sometimes with us. No. But this would be easy to implement.

 

And perhaps more controversially, we haven't allowed much mindless entertainment. We did really well with this when they were little. We don't have a TV. More recently, though, DVDs of things like the Star Trek series have become affordable. This has had the unintended consequence that we now have two children at Star Fleet Academy, more or less. They don't have their own computers and are limited in time on ours. We have gone the opposite direction with this - providing laptops when they reached high school. I'm not sure how well this has worked out. In many ways, I wish we hadn't. But in some ways, I am glad we have. They have very few hand held electronic games. Mine had gameboys, but I would have removed them if mine had gotten attached to them. They would play them for a week here or there, and then not touch them for months. They didn't grow up watching all the latest sit-coms, though we watched some of the older ones as a family. My husband and I didn't grow up watching them, so we haven't done that, either, although we now have Giligan's Island and Star Trek GRIN. Their play has been self-directed using things they can find instead of buying everything pre-made. Did quite a lot of this. We didn't entertain them on our long distance trips with the latest in videos. Instead, those are some of our great teaching moments with discussions - and they appreciate nature (or whatever else they can see out the window). When the scenery got boring, they learned to make up their own games. Probably more like half and half here.

 

More or less, mine have been forced to use their minds from a young age. We've done that. Maybe it's cruel, but it sure has worked well - and I have no complaints from them either. They may not keep up on the entertainment category of Trivial Pursuit GRIN my extended family prefers Taboo or Pictionary, but they can sure hold their own in the other categories. They have decent social lives, but not on Facebook (none of us are on it). My husband is on because we feel this puts a small break on our college students. And his brothers were adamant that he needed to be on so they could all be connected. They have impressed people in interviews, on mission trips both domestic and international, and even when questioned by outright strangers who told me they opposed homeschooling - except for mine! (Added note - I know they need to see more examples, but we hope to have changed some stereotypes.) We've had similar glowing reports. I always wonder if they would be so glowing if they were trying to correct their math or edit their papers.

 

Can all kids do this? I honestly don't know (nature/nurture again). We've had three who can. Only one was a "natural" at it (middle son). The other two had to learn, but now that they've learned they are taking off with it. My oldest has even more of a desire now that he knows where he's going to college (and looking forward to it). My youngest still has issues with remembering, but I think it's totally age related, so he gets some friendly reminders. He still loves to learn - and that's key. If I had tried to make my middle son learn the "normal" way I'd really have held him back. My other two might have done just fine, but I'm happy with them the way they are, so have no plans to change. I'm not sure where mine stand. I wonder, well, I wonder lots of things. I'll have to think about it.

 

We're involved in our kids' education, but not in the normal teaching way. I teach more at school than I do with my own kids using that method, but my own kids know incredibly more than those I work with at school - and both their test scores (SAT, etc) and any discussion with them shows it (as long as the discussion isn't on modern entertainment or actors/actresses!). There are a few self-motivated kids at school too - and they always know more than what they learn in school. I love working with those kids too - in conversations or with the tidbit here or there that they don't understand. :) I'm not sure how much I teach. Mostly I read the textbook aloud and elaborate where I think my children might get lost. I'm afraid to let mine learn on their own because they tend to find patterns or links that work fine in the narrow confines of their experience or textbook, but don't apply to the wider world. They become a mass of misconceptions if I leave them on their own. I'm not good at monitoring this from the side. The only way I know of preventing this from happening is to be involved with the initial explanation and examples. How do you avoid this? Are your questions enough?

 

Interestingly enough, when I was in college, my profs tended to tell us we were responsible for knowing what was in the books they assigned, but they taught us other things in class. Often they weren't teaching from the book, but rather, using what we learned that was in it. We were supposed to already know (from reading) the basics. I know not all colleges are the same, but I loved my education. Your education was obviously better than mine GRIN. Well, parts of it, anyway. Some of my classes didn't have any books. I have tried to make a point of telling my children that some profs teach this way and you have to figure this out EARLY in the class or you will be in big trouble.

 

Thank you again for taking the time explain that all to me. As I said, it is very useful. I now have lots to think about.

 

-Nan

[creekland]

Thank you again for taking the time explain that all to me. As I said, it is very useful. I now have lots to think about.

 

-Nan

 

Just so you don't think we're perfect... we're like anyone - still human with all our frailties, etc. But I do like what my boys have become and I give a bit of credit to both nature and nurture. I look forward to seeing what they will each do with their lives. Hopefully their love of learning (not all academic) and dedication will continue.

 

For what it's worth, hubby would absolutely LOVE to take a month off each year and go sailing. He was brought up along the water (VA) and misses it terribly. We've taken several 3 week - 2 month long vacations, but all by land. They've been some of the best times of our lives. The economy has put those on hold these last couple of years. It's probably the greatest thing I miss - more than losing a bit of our savings from the same downfall. We can work to replace lost savings (even if it's till we're 95!). We could never replace the time we had on those trips - besides, if we'd have invested that money it'd have been going down too. Don't look to us for investment advice!

 

As for "knowing" people, I'm not super good at following people through threads... but I do know I don't consider anyone's ideas or plans for their lives right or wrong. I glean info from some - and dismiss others (as we probably all do). It's one of the great benefits of following this board. We, ourselves, are not WTMers. My kids have never studied Latin (beyond roots). We haven't read all the classics - just some. But we do strive for a great education (academic and otherwise) and a love of learning that is self-driven. Our goal is to set them up for a fulfilling adult life in the career of their choice. With my oldest just heading off for college this fall, we're definitely still mid-stream, but so far, I'm very pleased with who they have become.

 

And my middle son - the most highly academically gifted one who's 200% self motivated - loves Star Trek (as does hubby)! T'aint nuthin wrong with that in this camp. Since someone in the family loves it, when we rotate through choices of who picks family entertainment, we all watch it. :tongue_smilie: Did I mention our favorite "current" show is White Collar (USA Network). It's a crime show where the lead character is very educated AND fun. We tape every new show that comes on and watch it at our first opportunity (taped as we DETEST commercials).

 

Oh yes, you had asked about misconceptions, etc, as they learn. Those do happen, but they come out in discussions sooner or later. It helps them to keep an open mind about what they learn - knowing there can be modifications as they go down the road. Sometimes it's as simple as pronunciation of a word. Once in a while it's a whole concept. I don't think anything major has slipped by. I'm pretty sure they know the world is round... :001_smile:

[Nan in Mass]

Well, beware of Star Trek LOL. Watching it can have unintended results.

 

I understand about the perfect part. We aren't exactly perfect either, and you write well enough that your posts convey an impression gentle steady pressure mixed with a few family rules, rather than perfection. Besides, for my own purposes, how perfectly your children have absorbed what you have tried to give them doesn't really matter. What matters is what you tried to do. It is all of a piece, and close enough to the sort of all-over family pressure that my family has (as far as I can tell) that I have a fairly good idea of how it all works in real life. I guess that is why I find the description useful - it is seems like it is the same amount, same types of things, but with differences. It is those differences that I am interested in. I feel like I am doing a bad job of explaining what I mean. I just want to tell you that the exactness of your results don't matter to me, that what I am interested in is your methods. Not good science, I guess, but I refuse to be too logical about child rearing. Every time I am I get in trouble.

 

Can I ask you another question? How much time do your high school children spend a week sitting down with some sort of academics? I know it probably varies, but roughly?

 

We detest commercials, too. There is one tv in my half of our extended family. My father has it, and he serves as gate-keeper and tapes, editting out the commercials, anything he thinks we might like to watch. My sisters and I and our families are very grateful.

 

Thank you again.

-Nan

[elegantlion]

Nothing relevant to add, just subscribing,:lurk5: and enjoying. And a comment on Star Trek.

 

Well, beware of Star Trek LOL. Watching it can have unintended results.

 

 

 

My ds' past obsession with Star Trek made our short study of physics easy to teach. My standard line was "Remember is Star Trek when..."

[Nan in Mass]

I've found it useful during WEM discussions. But that is totally minor compared to the unintended results I was refering to. Sigh.

[creekland]

Can I ask you another question? How much time do your high school children spend a week sitting down with some sort of academics? I know it probably varies, but roughly?

 

-Nan

 

Oh, this one is going to be tough... I'll type out a typical schedule as best I can and we can calculate from there.

 

My boys must be up by 8:30am on a typical morning. My oldest sometimes gets up early, the other two rarely do. They fix themselves breakfast and get their chores done (breakfast for our dog, cats, chickens, ponies). Those with less chores (rotational) will be starting on academics by 9:15 or so. All should be on schoolwork by 10am. It's 100% their choice what they work on and none of them do every subject every day. They'll also be taking breaks during this time to check their e-mail and catch up with chess moves and chat on chess.com (rotational as they have access to one computer).

 

Around noon we break for lunch - watching an educational show on TV while we eat IF we're all at home (I work 2 - 3 days per week at school. Hubby is a Civil Engineer working out of our home, but sometimes is out on job sites). If we're not all at home, then they boys can watch what they want or do more on the computer (chess stuff or college related stuff).

 

After lunch they work on academics until supper - taking breaks rotationally to walk the dog or other assorted household things. Discussions can come in there. So can chess practice or matches (at school). My youngest has a club that meets on Mondays for a couple of hours. During the summer they'll head out for an hour of recess/gym. We did the same with the last couple of snowstorms - 'cept it was more than an hour per day.

 

Supper varies at our house - anywhere from 5pm to 9pm pending other activities we have going on with them and/or hubby's work. We do all try to eat together and are successful 90+% of the time. We'll watch TV again - rotating through who gets to pick the entertainment and having fun discussing it afterward. Many times the boys will pitch in to help make dinner (at least one or two) and we'll have conversation/discussion then. If I taught at school that day they'll always want to know what went on and which of their friends I've seen. We'll discuss what I taught at school too. Today it's residual stats, extrapolation, and other stat vocab type words, a few of which I'll share with them. Yesterday it was the start of the Periodic Table. My oldest two already know that. My youngest got an introduction. By subbing math/science, I get quite a variety. I'll also ask how the SAT/ACT questions went and what they did for school that day.

 

After supper, my middle son will keep his nose in the books. He does this all on his own - by choice. He's literally driven to want to know every last detail in every subject. We sometimes have to get on him to do other things. It's like academics are "pleasure" to him. That's pretty much all nature, not so much nurture.

 

If my oldest son has finished his work, he'll play chess or a computer game - or read the paper or a magazine if the computer isn't available.

 

My youngest son (8th grade) is usually behind as he can get distracted more during the day, so he gets more work done after supper when either hubby or myself (usually me) has more time to help him. Math is his big weakness (and I blame this on Everyday Math from back in ps). We're working through Algebra 1, but I still let him try it/do it first and come in where he has missed things or doesn't understand something. He's improving quite a bit, but can still struggle when steps get more difficult. After math I try to read something he's written or listen to his science experiments or something to try to end on positive notes. In nice weather this son wants to be outdoors as much as possible, so we try to get as much done as possible in poor weather.

 

By 9pm (many times earlier) we let my youngest off the hook. My middle son is still cranking away (by choice). My oldest is still doing whatever he wants.

 

So, back to counting... roughly 2 hours before lunch and 4 afterward... average an hour or so after supper and we're at 7 hours per day. Then figure 5 days per week and we're at 35 hours. Mine can do work on the 6th day if they need to make things up, but we generally only count 5 for school. Many times we take a day off during the week and head out for a family activity (like geocaching or a movie or whatever), so Saturday is often a school day. It's still only 5 school days per week though.

 

I grade things a couple of times a week whenever I get in the mood, but not on Sunday. :)

[Nan in Mass]

So... your number of hours M-F are about like my son, and the amount of game/screen time sounds similar. My son is shorter on sleep and free time, probably, due to gymnastics, and the day is rearranged. We have a "school day" which runs from 7-2 with 2 breaks, then my son has a two hours free, then the rest of the day until bed is taken up with gym and finishing math and French. Mine works a bit more on the weekends. Mine is either slow at his math or NEM is time consuming or I am not doing a good job explaining or something. Writing is slow, too. Some of our subjects are pretty time-consuming, despite my efforts to be efficient. I feel like we are the blind leading the blind most of the time. I envy you your teaching experience, but not the way you aquired it GRIN. And, of course, my student vanishes every once in awhile for weeks or months. That was all very helpful, though, every bit of it. I'm trying slowly to work towards more efficient study skills and this gives me other goals to aim for, as well, and lets me see that they are doable for us. GRIN My son has just discovered that he can play chess online, not just his other strategy games. What is chess.com like?

Thank you SO much,

Nan

[creekland]

What is chess.com like?

Nan

 

It's great in my mind. My boys all play on our local high school chess team and their chess coach is the one who introduced the team to the site. There are game tips, practices, live games, games where you have from 1 to 3 days to make your move, matches between various "groups" you can join, forums (moderated) and general fellowship all on one site. The site is world-wide and has quite a following. It's pretty much the only "forum" site I let my kids have free range on - though occasionally I look to see what they are doing - just because they are teens. I've never seen anything I disagree with that they do.

 

AND, it's improved their chess game tremendously. My oldest has surpassed our local team's coach and now teaches/instructs our local team (as told to me by the coach, not my son). He's hoping to start a competitive team where he's going to college as they don't have one (yet). They seemed open to it on our visit for scholarship weekend. :)

[Kim in Appalachia]

I plan to use a fairly independent high school program, but will have discussion time each week to go over their work. I would love to spend more time with them but I don't see how I can do it all. How do those of you with large families get to it all? I have five and have only been able to survive this year by having my 7th grader be mostly independent. I check his math and grammar,go over corrections, teach new grammar concepts, discuss his reading with him, help him with science experiments and study for tests, but that is it, He does everything else on his own except history and read alouds which we do as a family. Each year I am moving him to more Independence.

 

It's not really because I want to but I don't know how else to do it. I'm hoping that even with the independent program I will be able to have meaningful discussions each day even though the lesson plans are written to the student and he is expected to do it mostly on his own.

 

It is impossible to do it all with 5, well, at least I found it impossible.:) I tried more of a mentoring approach with my oldest for 7th-9th grade, but it wasn't working. The girl needs a teacher, not discussion time and someone checking up on her. So we switched to BJ with DVDs. I still try to talk to her about her work, help her with things she is struggling with and her dad tries to help her study. I would like to move my next oldest to BJ's too, but she has told me she won't do it. :glare: I do think it would be hard for her. Watching it on a video will not cut it for this kid, she needs someone to interact with. As she gets older and I add my youngest I'm not sure how I'm going to keep up. I don't do a lot of teaching. Usually (meaning on a good day), I go over the review and lesson points (in the R&S book) for math, English, science, and geography. I have them recite the spelling list to me (say and spell the word). I correct the work and go over whatever they are having a problem with. I also study with them using the review. Even this minimal level is hard to keep up with 3. I will be adding the 5th child next year, and I'm not sure how it's going to work. Maybe my 5th grader will do BJ when he gets to 7th grade. I think he would like it. He can't stand to listen to me teach him, he tells me I talk to much. :D

[Nan in Mass]

Aha! That seems like what my son has been looking for. He can't play any of his friends because they aren't interested enough in chess to be challenging. Same with family. (They are plenty challenging at other games, so I think it is an interest problem.) He can't do chess club because of gymnastics (we looked into it). So this might be the answer. He would like to play against people who can beat him, for a change, and from whom he can learn something. I will investigate. Thank you!

-Nan

[creekland]

He would like to play against people who can beat him, for a change, and from whom he can learn something.

-Nan

 

If he can't find people on there who are challenging to him, might I suggest a potential future career? :001_smile: I hope he has fun. Mine absolutely love the site and playing people from all over the world.