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Circumcision: a straightforward question, NOT a debate


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I was just wondering, about people who have their boys circumcized, if you don't mind sharing how it actually happens, as in when did you get it done, did you watch it happening, did both parents want to do it, etc? Don't answer if you'd rather not - I am just curious/nosy, and thought maybe here would be a place to find out since I don't know anybody irl (or on other forums I visit) who would have it done.

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I do know that doctors in Australia really don't like preforming the operation, and some actually refuse. I really don't think it is very popular in Australia at all. None of my 4 boys are circumcised, and none of my 5 brothers are either, but I know my Canadian nephews , the same age as my children, are.

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Well, with my two, the pediatrician did it in the hospital on the 2nd day. I didn't witness it, but he told me that they numb the area first with something topical, then use some kind of "ring" device (it's been 6 years, so I don't remember exactly).

 

Amy

 

ETA: My dh and I were both in favor b/c it's a religious requirement for us.

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1 was done in the hospital. don't remember the specifics of the procedure.

 

1 is not circumcised. homebirth. never bothered taking him in, and neither of us really felt that mandated to go.

 

1 was done at the pediatrician's office [homebirth]. I saw that one. still don't remember the specifics.

 

#5- done via a rabbi, at someone's house, but not at 8 days old. ;) This was THE FASTEST recovery time --he stopped crying literally within minutes and never started up again.

 

 

dh was not present at any of the circumcisions [not so much choice, but work schedule], altho he was present at all the births. :D

 

I don't know that I'd care too much one way or the other about getting any future ds circumcised. dh did request circumcision for all though.

 

If we decided [or knew someone was considering] to have another child circumcised, I'd suggest a rabbi at 8 days old, in a heartbeat.

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With my first ds it was done right after he was born (maybe the next day?). I was not there.

 

With my second ds, we had to wait until hew was 2 yo. He was adopted from Korea and they doctor in the U.S. wanted to wait until he was old enough to go under anesthesia. It was an outpatient procedure.

 

I didn't care one way or the other but it was important to my dh.

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I was just wondering, about people who have their boys circumcised, if you don't mind sharing how it actually happens, as in when did you get it done, did you watch it happening, did both parents want to do it, etc? Don't answer if you'd rather not - I am just curious/nosy, and thought maybe here would be a place to find out since I don't know anybody irl (or on other forums I visit) who would have it done.

 

When ds15 was born I and dh were 22. When the doctor asked me if I wanted ds circ'd I asked dh. He adamantly insisted on ds getting circ'd. I never questioned the decision or why he was so adamant about it. It really never came up again. At that time, I had been with both circ'd and uncirc'd men, so I knew the difference and I really didn't have a preference one way or the other to influence my decision. I figured dh was the better one to decide since he undoubtedly knew more than I on the topic at the time. It is more common in my culture to have a circ so it seemed like a natural decision, I never really gave it any thought. It wasn't until I started getting a bit crunchy and delving into my own research that I started questioning the need for one.

 

 

 

Ds was scheduled to get it done at 3 days old, but he was very jaundiced and the doctored wanted his jaundice to clear first. Ds had his circ done in the hospital by the pediatrician at 2-3 weeks old. It wasn't covered by my insurance and cost $300 in 1994. Doc made the snip, and brought him out to me (I could have went in, but after daily billirubin tests for 2 weeks-I had heard enough of my newborn baby crying in pain). Doc said it went beautifully and that due to shape/size of ds he left a little extra skin intact, with the logic it is better to leave it a bit loose than too tight. I have never heard ds complain or comment on any issues. Ds seemed fine right after the procedure. It healed in the typical fashion and he has never had a problem with it.

 

I was asked by a male friend recently if I though they should get their new baby circ'd. The man is circ'd and grew up thinking it was absolutely common (being uncirc'd wasn't common) but the mom is against it as she grew up in the Ukraine. The mom will absolutely give in to the dad (my friend). My advice to them: let the man decide. LOL after years of research, listening to many people who are fierce on each side of the debate...and I come back to my original decision. LOL I can debate each side enough to talk myself into either decision. This is the one topic I still can't decide on. :lol:

Edited by Tap, tap, tap
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Well, with my two, the pediatrician did it in the hospital on the 2nd day. I didn't witness it, but he told me that they numb the area first with something topical, then use some kind of "ring" device

 

 

Same here. On the day after ds was born, they took him to the pediatrician. They put topical anesthetic on him, and put the ring device on. He was a little purple at the tip when we took him home later that day, but was never bothered in the least. The ring fell off in a couple days, if I remember correctly.

 

Dh wanted ds circumcised. I didn't care one way or the other. I was used to the foreskin-free look though, since my little brothers and both my xdh and forever-dh were circumcised.

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We didn't circ ds, although dh is. But I witnessed a circ when I was working on a kibbutz many years ago. I guess it's interesting to compare all the controversy and medical aspects to a "natural" approach to circ - in the Jewish culture it is simply done on day 8, and that's that. Everyone met in the dining room, family and baby were at the front, rabbi did something to baby, baby yelled, everyone cheered. All over apart from the celebration. Don't know the baby's view of things, though!

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I sat with my newborn (1-day-old) nephew because my sister was too chicken to go. It was awful enough that when my own son was born I didn't even consider it. The child was not anesthetized. They stuck a pacifier in his mouth and restrained him in a baby-seat. When they started cutting him, he started to scream. His face turned purple and he couldn't catch his breath from screaming and shrieking. He screamed for another five minutes after it was over. The nurse said he didn't feel a thing, that he was just being fussy because he was restrained.

 

Just say no to ritual infant mutilation.

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I sat with my newborn (1-day-old) nephew because my sister was too chicken to go. It was awful enough that when my own son was born I didn't even consider it. The child was not anesthetized. They stuck a pacifier in his mouth and restrained him in a baby-seat. When they started cutting him, he started to scream. His face turned purple and he couldn't catch his breath from screaming and shrieking. He screamed for another five minutes after it was over. The nurse said he didn't feel a thing, that he was just being fussy because he was restrained.

:( I often wonder about people who say "the nurse said he did great" I mean the nurse is hardly going to tell them what you said eh. I think I would have been crying :(

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I was sick in hospital. I told my DH that if it was to be done, he had to take DS in. DH "forgot" the appt.

 

Fast forward: DS ended up first getting some awful infection (not from "uncleanliness" but from his body's inability to "empty" properly due to how his foreskin was), and then he got some weird skin condition and ended up getting it done at EIGHT. Talk about traumatic.

 

I wish we'd just done it at birth.

 

 

a

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I sat with my newborn (1-day-old) nephew because my sister was too chicken to go. It was awful enough that when my own son was born I didn't even consider it. The child was not anesthetized. They stuck a pacifier in his mouth and restrained him in a baby-seat. When they started cutting him, he started to scream. His face turned purple and he couldn't catch his breath from screaming and shrieking. He screamed for another five minutes after it was over. The nurse said he didn't feel a thing, that he was just being fussy because he was restrained.

 

Just say no to ritual infant mutilation.

 

I'm not pro-circ, but I will NEVER understand why doctors don't recommend an injectible anesthetic for this procedure. It is available! It is apparently effective! Wth?! :confused::confused::confused:

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I was just wondering, about people who have their boys circumcized, if you don't mind sharing how it actually happens, as in when did you get it done, did you watch it happening, did both parents want to do it, etc? Don't answer if you'd rather not - I am just curious/nosy, and thought maybe here would be a place to find out since I don't know anybody irl (or on other forums I visit) who would have it done.

 

With my 11yo ds, his father (my ex) wanted it done, so it was done. It never occurred to me to question the procedure.

Ds was in the nursery while I was taking a shower. The dr. came banging on my door for me to come out and sign the paperwork. Being less than 24hr post-partum with my first baby, I was moving purdy darned slow, lol. Dr. was displeased. I finally got out to sign and he ran off to do the deed. I can't stop thinking about the fact that a rude, impatient, pissy doctor then took a scalple to my newborn :glare:. In a way, I'm glad I wasn't there for it. In another, I feel badly.

 

With my 2yo ds, I insisted that dh (who was also pro-circ) research the procedure and the supposed pros and cons. After a few weeks, he and I agreed that we didn't want it done.

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Just curious (as I do not have any sons), but can you request a local anesthetic for the procedure? I know that if we have sons in the future, DH will want them circumcized. If I'm adamant about having an local numbing of the area, will the doctors do it? I'll send DH to oversee the procedure too.

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First ds had it done in the hospital on the second day, I think. They didn't use an injectable anesthetic because it hurts (burns and needle prick hurts) but did use a topical one.

 

Second ds was not done in the hospital. We took him back later maybe at 6 weeks? IDR. They took him from my arms and said I couldn't go in. They used an anesthetic. He was crying, but not screaming when he came back. Because he was so "short," they had to do a correction later when he was in 4th grade--they had been afraid to take too much the first time and needed to take a little more the second time.

 

I have heard (but who knows) that the bell procedure hurts more than just using a scalpel.

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We did the research and at the time (don't know if recommendations have changed) it appeared that there were some health benefits. AAP was no longer recommending for circumcision, but they weren't opposed. We did a lot of reading, I gave my opinion (I don't see a need for it) and I let my husband make the decision b/c he has a penis and I don't.

 

I checked with my OB who's the one who did the procedure, and they did use anesthetic. I wasn't there and I don't believe dh was either. Ds was born just before 1am and he was circ'd the same morning in the hospital when the dr was in (prob about 7 or 8am).

 

Healed up in about a week. Apparently it's a "looser" circ and I'm happy with that. Haven't had any problems here.

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#5- done via a rabbi, at someone's house, but not at 8 days old. ;) This was THE FASTEST recovery time --he stopped crying literally within minutes and never started up again.

...

If we decided [or knew someone was considering] to have another child circumcised, I'd suggest a rabbi at 8 days old, in a heartbeat.

I'm interested in knowing more. Do you feel that this was due to better skill on the part of the circumciser or technique or...what? And mohels normally don't use anesthetic, correct (besides wine)?

 

Have any of you "shopped around" in order to find a person who will use a particular technique? (Is that weird?)

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First DS, took him to the doctor's office a week after we came home. Nurse did not let me hold him during procedure. Rather traumatic.

 

Second DS, new pediatrician did it 2 days after birth in the hospital. Doc had me hold him and encouraged me to dip me finger in some sugar water and let him suck on it during the procedure. Scarcely a whimper.

 

DH could not stnad to be present for either. Way too traumatic for him.

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I have another question -- after reading these posts -- there are doctors who will perform circumcision in the office or whatever, instead of doing it in the hospital? How do you find out about this? (Probably the answer is....just ask.) Are these just regular pediatricians or did you go to some specialist or something? I am talking about still newborns, not a 6 year old, but not at 1-2 days old.

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My son had it when he was 2 days old. It was not a huge deal at all. They just put a ring around the end of his penis and then a few days later the ring fell off. It was definately NOT a big deal or a horrific procedure. Where we live (TX) most of the boys are circumcised.

 

Actually, putting the ring on is a horrific procedure. They are ripping skin away from the glans, which is very painful. Probably as painful as the cut itself.

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Our second boy (out of three) is circumcised. We had it done in England when he was 6 days old. Parents went with the baby. Actually, they asked me to help hold him down. It was horrible. Really, really horrible.

 

However, ds didn't cry long, didn't cry during diaper changes afterwards and healed very quickly.

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We have four sons- the first one is a twin who was pretty tiny at birth and it wasn't done in the typical 2-3 period by my gyn because of his weight and instability. We wanted it done and had to fuss with the insurance company a bit so it wasn't done until he was nearly 2 years old. It was out-patient and under anesthesia....not the best of circumstances but safe. He needed some vaseline and gauze applied for a few days and was fine.

Our last three boys were circ-ed on day #2. I watched each one, it was very quick and yes, they did cry a little. My ob thinks it was mainly because they are strapped down in a body-formed tray and rather exposed. Some of the nurses watched to make sure I wouldn't faint (good grief) but my doc and I had discussed it enough and she was just fine with it. As soon as it was over, we bundled them up and I nursed them right there in the procedure room. They fell asleep as soon as their tummies were full. No biggie.

These boys are now young men and have never expressed anything negative about being circ-ed. I know it can be controversial, but my dh and I read all the material we could and still made this decision.

Hope that is helpful.

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When my second daughter was born she went into the NICU and I was actually discharged before she was.

 

I was signing the papers for my own discharge and getting ready to go over to the NICU to be with her when the nurse said I had to wait a bit because they were doing some procedures, like X procedure, Y procedure, circ the baby, Z procedure....

 

I said...wait a minute...what did you say? They're going to do WHAT to my baby? She said "circumcise." When I protested, she got snotty and said "did you specifically indicate that you did not want the baby circumcised, because it's a standard procedure." I said NO, I did not specifically indicate that I did not want my baby GIRL circumcised because I did not feel it was necessary. Boy was she embarassed! :lol:

 

The worst part? The hospital charged me for a circumcision. Needless to say, that part of the bill was contested. :001_huh:

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DH could not stnad to be present for either. Way too traumatic for him.

 

 

What do you think it was like for the baby? :confused: Just my .02, but if you (general you) or your dh are so adamant on having your child circumcised, at least be there to comfort your child.

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All my boys are circ'd. My boys from my womb were circ'd on the 8th day. A few were done at the Dr.s office, one done at the hospital. The one at the hospital I witnessed entirely and it was not traumatic.

 

He was put down on a baby table with straps for the arms and legs so that the Dr. would not have to deal with general squirming. My son didn't protest to this, just lay there looking at the lights. A tube like cap was filled with topical anesthetic and place over the penis for several minutes. The Dr., a caring female, took that off and pulled foreskin back and placed a ring over the head of the penis and pulled the foreskin back over the ring. The ring had little grooves. Along the grooves a string was tied over the foreskin, rather tight so it wouldn't come off. Then the foreskin was snipped around the ring.

 

This is the same procedure used for all my boys in the 90's.

 

I understand that we each have preferences and opinions... how nice it would be to not call names about it, like mutilation... that seems to cross a line and violate my religious conviction.

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My newborn was circumcised at his pediatrician's office last Thursday; since he was a homebirth, we had to wait several days and take him to a ped to have it done. My husband went back and watched and, when it was over, came out with him and told me everything that happened. I couldn't go back because someone had to watch our other 3 kids in the waiting room.

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My son was a preemie and needed surgery immediately after birth, so they went ahead and circumcised him since he was going to be "under" anyway.

 

It healed fine and never seemed to cause him any pain of any kind. I haven't given the issue too much thought since then since he's my only child and we have no plans for any more. I never really thought of it as mutilation, per se, but I guess I do understand if you are adamantly against it, how that word would reflect your feelings on the issue.

 

This was almost 17 years ago and I was young and single. Both my NICU pediatrician and my Dad thought it was best and I trusted them, not having a penis myself. Honestly, these are two great men and I still do trust them.

 

I don't have any regrets, although in general now I do a lot more research and don't just passively accept what people tell me to do. I imagine when my son has children of his own, he and his spouse will decide what is best for them. I don't have any strong feelings one way or the other.

Edited by TejasMamacita
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Both of our boys were circ'd w/ a mohel. Ours didn't use wine--I've never heard of that. There's a ring device--it looks like what you might use to cut the end off a cigar, I think--don't have a lot of experience w/ cigars, though. Anyway, the rabbi pushes the penis up inside, holds the extra skin shut, & snips it off in one snip. Imagine holding an empty paper towel tube closed & cutting off the end. Then neosporin, guaze, & you're done.

 

I was really overwhelmed by the decision w/ #1. There was SO much arguing SO passionately both ways, & I hate having to make those kinds of big life decisions. Esp when people are going to tell you you've ruined your ds's life either way.

 

After helping hold #1 on the mohel's dining table, it's been an easy decision for me. I can't explain it, but somehow it was a beautiful process. Obviously lots of people feel differently, but this was my experience. I've had a much harder time holding them down for too many shots at a time when the nurses won't tell me anything & make me feel...like I was in the way--they wanted to do their job w/ out talking about it.

 

(I had a pediatrician whose office made it policy not to tell parents what shots their kids were scheduled to get next & then didn't have time to discuss them during the appt. I don't know about you, but I don't just trust the page they hand out at the appt, even IF they gave you time to read it before signing.)

 

I know we don't agree about circumcision, but we don't agree about vaccinations, either, & we never argue that vacc's are too *painful* or that we're stabbing our babies or anything else quite so inflammatory. We try to respect ea others' difficult decisions. Just wanted to throw that out there because I recently bumped into another thread where the water was already too hot for me, & frankly, I don't like posting to this one, but in the end, that didn't seem fair to OP.

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I am a postpartum nurse and I have witnessed two circs. Do not let the use of anesthetics fool you. They do routinely use a local anesthetic at the hospital where I work, but it still hurts. It hurts bad. I now refuse to enter the circ room due to ethical reasons.

Edited by Nakia
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My 2 sons are both circ'ed. One was against my wishes. Due to the dynamic of my marriage with their Dad, I was the one to take the child to the Dr and have it done. I can't tell you the intensity of feelings I still have over that.

 

I do want to comment on the decision to leave it up to the men because they have a penis. Most of us posting live in a circ-culture. The men making the decisions had infrequent contact with intact males, those males were considered "weired" (at best). Misinformation about cleanliness, hygiene and the medical necessity was the norm for generations. That isn't an informed place from which to make a decision.

 

Even today, many medical professionals still believe in forcibly retracting an infant or child's penis. Even "gently", this is not the proper care of an intact penis.

 

It's easy to disregard the reality that "circ as routine" has shaped perceptions. The fact that most males in US culture were circ'ed became standard only through tenacity and authority, not from medical or practical considerations.

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When I had my oldest I had no clue how circumcision was done. For him it was done in the hospital, papoosed, I wasn't there, they botched it and had to stitch him. When I found out more I was so sad that I wasn't there to comfort him. It was very upsetting.

 

When son #2 came along he was a homebirth and I knew I didn't want a repeat of what happened to son #1, but we still wanted him circumcised. We found out through my midwife about a mohel who would do circumcisions for $100. :001_smile: So....for this son it was done in the home of the mohel's parents (somewhere in Dallas). The mohel has a kit he uses and was very quick and experienced. Dh held sons legs, I looked away, it was wrapped quickly in antibiotic and gauze we were told to bring with us. I was able to nurse him immediately afterwards. We left with instructions to care for it and the rest is history. It was a much better experience than with son #1.

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If we decided [or knew someone was considering] to have another child circumcised, I'd suggest a rabbi at 8 days old, in a heartbeat.

 

Mine isn't circumcized, but if I did have it done to a child, I'd go this way. Mohels cut off less than American doctors, baby's blood clots better at 8 days, and they aren't stripped from loved ones and strapped spread eagle to a board. Much kinder to a new babe.

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My boy was circumcised by his pediatrician at 2 weeks, as we didn't want to put him through it while he was still in the hospital with an infection/IV antibiotics.

 

My husband I were both in the room while it was done. He was given a shot of local anesthesia and drops of sugar water. I nursed him immediately beforehand to help with the pain as well. My husband watched the procedure, but my view was obscured which was fine with me. The doctor used the cutting procedure that does not involve the ring. My husband made the decision to have it done, and thus felt it was his duty to be there for it. We talked to Goopy the whole time, and he didn't even cry or squirm. Our pediatrician only restrains the legs so the baby is more comfortable. The hospital restrains their arms as well, which generally makes them angry. He was mildly more irritable for the next two days, but not much.

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Mine isn't circumcized, but if I did have it done to a child, I'd go this way. Mohels cut off less than American doctors, baby's blood clots better at 8 days, and they aren't stripped from loved ones and strapped spread eagle to a board. Much kinder to a new babe.

 

When my xh insisted on having my youngest done, I asked my midwife. She recommended (against her wishes) a local dr. who was also a Jewish Mohel. That's who I took my son to.

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DH and I agreed to have DS circ'd. They used an injection of anesthesia to numb him (not totally, just enough to take the edge off, so to speak) and used the ring device. He was restrained and did scream a bit, but he got over it fast and didn't have any pain during the healing period. I don't remember how old he was, it was during the first week though. I guarantee you he doesn't remember the experience and wasn't permanently traumatized by it.

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Neither of my sons are circ'd. I have heard horror stories and my husband and I both opted to not do that to our babies. *I* didn't care if the baby didn't remember, I would :tongue_smilie:.

The other reason we didn't is because no one could give us a medical reason why it was needed other than tradition. Welp didn't need to alter me boys in that fashion when it isn't medically needed.

 

 

:grouphug::grouphug:

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One of our five children is circumcised, the one born during my years of observance.

 

He was eight days old. We had no party. I was deeply concerned for his comfort and only consented to have him circed if we could do it pain free. I brought him to a woman who had been recommended by friends at our shul.

 

She had me undiaper him about half an hour before so he'd adjust to the temperature. It was very warm in the room. Our rabbi and rebbetzin were there, and myself and my husband. Our older child was with the rabbi's son and his wife, playing in another part of the building.

 

The doctor numbed the baby with something topical, then waited a while and tested to be sure he couldn't feel anything. She asked me to breastfeed him while she snipped, and I of course did.

 

Rabbi prayed; doctor snipped; rabbi prayed more; the rebbetzin took pictures because after the uproar I had made in the congregation, she wanted proof that this could be done without hurting the baby at all. My high strung, loud & colicky, high needs baby kept nursing and didn't even flinch, obviously not noticing a thing.

 

The doctor cleaned him up, packaged him up, and in another half an hour we were on our way.

 

It was the most untraumatic thing possible.

 

But I don't mean to advocate for the position that circumcision can be done without trauma. I robbed my son of a piece of himself he will someday have cause to miss on a regular basis, that he can never get back; he has to forever live with the knowledge that his parents marred his sex life. If I could go back in time, I would bar the door, smack myself, steal the baby away, or whatever else would work to stop that untraumatic, peaceful mutilation.

Edited by dragons in the flower bed
trying to make what I said seem less controversial
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My only son was circ'd in the hospital on the 2nd day. Dh would have attended, but he was at home taking a shower when the Dr came. I had no interest in attending.

 

The procedure went without a hitch, and ds healed remarkably fast.

 

 

When I was in the hospital with ds, every nurse, Dr or staff member who saw in my chart that I was planning on circumsizing my baby commended me. That really surprised me. They all went on to tell me all the stories of all their older patients who end up needing circumcision for medical reasons and how horrible that can be.

 

Stripe asked about the differences between getting the baby circumcised in the hospital, later by a ped, by a rabbi, etc...

 

I have a friend who had both her boys circumcised by pediatric urologists by choice. She wanted the most experienced Dr to do the circumcisions.

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I have another question -- after reading these posts -- there are doctors who will perform circumcision in the office or whatever, instead of doing it in the hospital? How do you find out about this? (Probably the answer is....just ask.) Are these just regular pediatricians or did you go to some specialist or something? I am talking about still newborns, not a 6 year old, but not at 1-2 days old.

 

I would just call and ask. My regular pediatrician did it. He will only do routine circs on infants up to 2 months. Older than that it must be for medical necessity reasons.

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ds was in NICU for several days due to birth at 34.5 weeks. Dh wanted it done, but the OB wouldn't do it due to ds small size (5lbs 9 oz). The Neonatologist said he would do it and we said OK. Well, ds weighed 20 lbs at 1 year and due to his extreme growth, the circumcision ended up stretching and now ds looks uncircumcised. All our relatives are circumcised and I always feel the need to explain why ds looks like he does.

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My ex dh initially was adament that ds get circ'd when we found out we were having a boy. I was totally against it but went with " father knows best". Well Ds ended up being born premature and had some breathing issues that left him in the NICU for 7 days and on meds to remind him to breath for 4 months. The ped recommended waiting until ds was bigger and stronger (he was only 4lbs 15 oz at birth), before putting him through it. We ended up not ever getting it done. When he was 4 he started having issues with infections, the first due to chicken pox sores under the foreskin, but then he kept getting them. The ped thought we would have to get it done and sent us to a urologist, turns out he has 2 issues with his foreskin, 1 being that it is extremely long, the other that it is too tight. His foreskin does not retract without extreme force, so cleaning it was impossible, and it was causing small amounts of urine to pool (his foreskin would swell with urine then drain when he went to the bathroom). THe urologist decided against a circ at that point, he did use a tool to stretch the opening of the foreskin a little. This stopped all infections as now all urine drains. He is still unretractable at 11.5 yrs old. When he is a teenager he has a couple options that he can discuss with the urologist, 1- would be to have a small snip cut in the foreskin to make the opening big enough to retractm, 2- allow the opening to stretch and tear on it's own through umm, self pleasure or 3- choose to have a circ at that time.

 

I opted not to have my 2nd ds done despite the issues with ds1 and he has never had any issues.

 

I did not go in with my nephew, but saw him about 2 hours after his procedure and saw how sore he looked during the diaper change. It looked so painful and he would scream bloody murder when ever they changed the gauze. (I know most newborns cry while being changed, this was different). It made me so happy that I did not put my boys through that.

 

My ds6 thanked me about a week ago for not having him circ'd. I was giving my nephew and my dd2 a bath together and ds walked in. This led to lots of questions about why nephew's parts looked different, and about circ. Ds gave me a big hug and said thank you for not doing that to him.

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