Is Teaching Textbooks behind?

[Tohru]

My son is doing TT7. He has been whizzing through lessons. I'm not sure if it's really easy since he just started...maybe it's all review right now? Or is the curriculum actually behind a grade or two?

 

(And of course, today my 30 day return period expired.)

[sweetsouthern]

ive been wondering that myself. my dd is doing math 5 and its very easy for her so far. before this we did abeka. since shes on like lesson 60 or something like that, i just figured we will blow through it and move on :) at least she'll have a nice foundation lol!

[helena]

I think a lot of people move their kids up a grade or two. My 5th grader is in level 6, my 2nd grader took the placement tests yesterday and and is placed at level 4.

Did you take the placement tests? I was really surprised at how easy level 3 was. I'm hoping that it's just an issue of finding the right level, as opposed to the work not being challenging.

[sweetsouthern]

im not sure if they had the placement tests when i bought it for my oldest. it was almost 2 years ago. but i jsut checked it and im sure she could easily pass the 6th grade test with flying colors.. YIKES! i better work on getting 6th grade soon then and just jump :D

[Corraleno]

My son is doing TT7. He has been whizzing through lessons. I'm not sure if it's really easy since he just started...maybe it's all review right now? Or is the curriculum actually behind a grade or two?

 

TT7 is sort of a remedial program, designed for students who need extra practice before moving into Prealgebra. Most students go from TT6 to TT Prealgebra. And you are correct that TT runs about a grade level behind, so 5th graders often do TT6, then move into TT Prealgebra in 6th grade. My 6th grader is currently combining Math Mammoth 5 (since MM6 isn't out yet) and TT Prealgebra.

 

BTW, according to TT (and many TT users here on the forum), students need to do TT Algebra I, Algebra II, and Precalculus to get complete coverage of Algebra, because some of the more advanced topics that are covered in a standard Alg II course are bumped into Precalc in TT.

 

Jackie

[Homeschooling6]

TT7 is sort of a remedial program, designed for students who need extra practice before moving into Prealgebra. .

 

Jackie

 

Thanks for this info. This will work out for my oldest ds in 6th. He is a little behind; working through MM 3&4 this year. He will work through the summer using MM5 and hopefully by mid Jan. next year he can start with TT7.

[Tohru]

Really? Thank you! I figured something was going on because he was getting done way too fast.

 

I double checked my invoice and it seems that I purchased it on Nov 20th, so maybe they'll still let me send this level back for the Pre-Algebra.

 

Thanks again!

[TechWife]

BTW, according to TT (and many TT users here on the forum), students need to do TT Algebra I, Algebra II, and Precalculus to get complete coverage of Algebra, because some of the more advanced topics that are covered in a standard Alg II course are bumped into Precalc in TT.

Jackie

This is very important to know as you are planning high school math. It really doesn't matter what the cover of the book says, it matters what the content is. Make sure that your students have covered the appropriate topics before they take chemistry and physics.

[calandalsmom]

TT7 is sort of a remedial program, designed for students who need extra practice before moving into Prealgebra. Most students go from TT6 to TT Prealgebra. And you are correct that TT runs about a grade level behind, so 5th graders often do TT6, then move into TT Prealgebra in 6th grade. My 6th grader is currently combining Math Mammoth 5 (since MM6 isn't out yet) and TT Prealgebra.

 

BTW, according to TT (and many TT users here on the forum), students need to do TT Algebra I, Algebra II, and Precalculus to get complete coverage of Algebra, because some of the more advanced topics that are covered in a standard Alg II course are bumped into Precalc in TT.

 

Jackie

 

Im not really sure where you would have gotten this idea. While in public school myself I did note that math 7 was a rmedial course, but TT math 7 is NOT remedial as it does in fact introduce many new topics without which pre algebra would be difficult to handle.

 

I know this because I figured my ds could skip TT 7 based on my public school experience but when I printed out the placement test it was clear he could NOT.

 

TT also assures me that their courses are NOT behind tho their scope and sequence may be different than other courses.

Edited December 20, 2009 by calandalsmom

[8filltheheart]

 

TT also assures me that their courses are NOT behind tho their scope and sequence may be different than other courses.

 

Assurances or not, the 1st 5 chapters as well as chapter 10 of TT's pre-cal course are all beginning algebra 2 topics (they are all covered in the first 7 chapters of Foerster's alg 2)

 

Simply titling a course pre-cal does not make it pre-cal. The previous poster is correct. In order to achieve the equivalence of standard alg 2, you must complete through their pre-cal course.

[Corraleno]

Im not really sure where you would have gotten this idea.

Someone here posted an email from TT saying exactly that: TT7 is extra review for students who need it, while most students can go from TT6 to TT Prealgebra.

 

While in public school myself I did note that math 7 was a rmedial course, but TT math 7 is NOT remedial as it does in fact introduce many new topics without which pre algebra would be difficult to handle. I know this because I figured my ds could skip TT 7 based on my public school experience but when I printed out the placement test it was clear he could NOT.

If you look at the tables of contents for TT6 and TT7, they cover almost exactly the same topics. TT6 will definitely prepare a student for TT Prealgebra ~ it's designed to do so.

 

If a student is coming from another math curriculum, then whether or not they need TT7 depends entirely on the strength of the previous program. Most curricula cover the same topics as TT7 in 6th grade or earlier ~ my non-mathy 6th grader went from Math Mammoth 5 into TT Prealgebra. I think most students who have completed 6th grade in most other curricula would have no trouble going into TT Prealgebra ~ which starts very slowly with tons of review anyway.

 

TT also assures me that their courses are NOT behind tho their scope and sequence may be different than other courses.

 

Well, of course they're going to say they're not "behind." But if their scope and sequence is "different" from other programs, and most of those other programs cover the same topics in earlier grades than TT does, then one could say that TT's scope & sequence is "behind" those of other curricula. For example, TT admit that their Precalculus includes topics that are usually covered in Alg II by other programs. If their 11th grade curriculum covers topics that most curricula cover in 10th, then TT is "behind" those other programs, no? Many users have found that to be equally true at the lower levels as well, and if you search the forum for TT threads you'll see that most parents put their kids 1-2 grade levels higher in TT than they were in other programs.

 

This is not to bash TT ~ I love TT and my nonmathy son is doing great with it, but I think people should be aware of how the TT grade levels compare to other programs. There's no point in spending all that money and then discovering half way through the year that your child already knows all the material and you've wasted a lot of time and money. Which is exactly why the OP asked the question to begin with. :001_smile:

 

Jackie

[calandalsmom]

Pythagorean theorem, negative numbers, powers and exponents, square roots and more are all covered in 7 and not in 6.

[helena]

:crying:

I'm confused..

My 10yo will finish level 6 this year. Should I have her take placement tests for level 7 and pre- algebra? If she aces the level 7 then she can go straight to

pre algebra? What about those topics that aren't cover in PA?

[Corraleno]

Pythagorean theorem, negative numbers, powers and exponents, square roots and more are all covered in 7 and not in 6.

 

I certainly wouldn't say they are "covered." These topics are barely introduced, in a few pages at the very end of TT7, in a section called "Additional Topics." They represent maybe 20 pages of a 580 page textbook, which otherwise just reviews all the same basic math kids had in 6th grade. You do not need to have read these 20 or so pages in order to understand TT Prealgebra, because negative numbers, powers and roots are all covered very thoroughly (11 or 12 lessons on each topic), and they are taught from scratch ~ assuming the student has no prior knowledge. So any information on these topics that is introduced in TT7 will be repeated in Prealgebra anyway.

 

TT Prealgebra is designed as a 7th grade curriculum, to follow TT6, just as most public school math programs do. Students who need further review of basic math, and who will not be ready for Algebra in 8th grade, can use TT7.

 

I don't want to get into a big discussion about this, but I do want to make sure other parents don't get the idea that TT7 is a necessary prerequisite to TT Prealgebra, because it's not, and it's not designed to be.

 

Jackie

[Corraleno]

:crying:

I'm confused..

My 10yo will finish level 6 this year. Should I have her take placement tests for level 7 and pre- algebra? If she aces the level 7 then she can go straight to

pre algebra? What about those topics that aren't cover in PA?

 

I would have her take the placement test, and also look at the tables of content for both TT7 and Prealgebra. As mentioned in the previous post, the topics at the very end of TT7 are introduced and thoroughly taught in Prealgebra, so (IMHO) you only really need TT7 if your DD isn't solid on things like fractions/decimals/percents. And even then you may be better off just working on the topic where she's weak (e.g. get a workbook on fractions from Math Mammoth or Keys to...) and then go into Prealgebra, rather than spend a whole year reviewing things she knows really well, just to reinforce one or two areas where she's a bit weaker.

 

Jackie

[mrs.m]

I guess I'm confused now too. My DD has a 5th grade Math textbook intended for gifted students that she is currently working out of for a virtual program. The TT6 covers the same topics. So I was guessing that TT7 would be next for 6th grade work but I was wondering because it didn't seem that different from TT6. So what are they covering in 6th grade in public schools if they can jump from that 5th grade text into pre-algebra? Do they just do it all again for the 6th grade?

 

We are going to do TT6 this semester to make sure my DD retained what she learned from the 5th grade program--with a few new topics coming up in the middle. I think she can benefit from the relearning and practice so that when it is time for preAlgebra, she has the basics down pat. She loved the demo and is very excited to use TT.

 

But I'm not sure that I want to keep her with TT because their levels seem so confusing. I would not have known to skip TT7 if I hadn't read this thread. And I keep reading that it's "easy" even using a grade above. We haven't started yet so I'll need to determine if that's because TT is just that good at teaching the concepts or if the work is really easy? DD was introduced to a number of new concept in the virtual program and the teaching animations that the virtual instruction provided really helped her grasp the concepts quickly with little to no help from me. She said long division seemed hard until she watched the video teaching it. So I guess I'm still undecided.

 

(Sorry for the rambling....)

Edited December 20, 2009 by jannylynn

[calandalsmom]

I certainly wouldn't say they are "covered." These topics are barely introduced, in a few pages at the very end of TT7, in a section called "Additional Topics." They represent maybe 20 pages of a 580 page textbook, which otherwise just reviews all the same basic math kids had in 6th grade. You do not need to have read these 20 or so pages in order to understand TT Prealgebra, because negative numbers, powers and roots are all covered very thoroughly (11 or 12 lessons on each topic), and they are taught from scratch ~ assuming the student has no prior knowledge. So any information on these topics that is introduced in TT7 will be repeated in Prealgebra anyway.

 

TT Prealgebra is designed as a 7th grade curriculum, to follow TT6, just as most public school math programs do. Students who need further review of basic math, and who will not be ready for Algebra in 8th grade, can use TT7.

 

I don't want to get into a big discussion about this, but I do want to make sure other parents don't get the idea that TT7 is a necessary prerequisite to TT Prealgebra, because it's not, and it's not designed to be.

 

Jackie

 

 

Im going to contact TT about this for clarification because in no way is TT advertised as remedial. Without the introduction which you seem to think unnecessary my child was not able to test into TT pre algebra. I think if you are using a curriculum, skipping an entire step seems awfully odd. Further, we have never needed a whole year to do any level of TT math, so I disagree its a wasted year. In fact I disagree its a waste even if it takes a year.

 

I'll let you know what they say as soon as they clarify this for me.

Edited December 20, 2009 by calandalsmom

[sweetsouthern]

dying to hear the answer on this! :D

 

my dd's LOVE TT. but i do think my 10 yr old 5th grade should be doing 6th now lol! i printed the placement tests for 7th and 6th for her and for 5th for my younger dd and i'll have them take them monday quick too see.

 

either way im happy with the program, it teaches them and explains it all out for them in a way i just cant with math :lol:

[calandalsmom]

I love TT too. Its easier than singapore, I guess. With singapore tho, my ds testing at grade level in an academic survey despite singapore being "ahead".

 

IMO if a program works and your child is learning then its a success. My younger ds will continue with singapore because we can work together. My oldest needs someone else to teach him math and TT is a perfect solution. He has done 5,6 and has started 7 in the past 18 mos. or so.

[Corraleno]

This is how negative numbers are introduced in TT Prealgebra (pp 388-389):

 

What's 5 minus 10? That doesn't make sense. How can we take away 10 apples from 5 apples?

 

<snip>

 

To calculate 5-10 we first take away 5 and that gets us down to zero. But we're supposed to take away 10, not 5. So for the next step, we just keep going and take away the other 5, which gives an answer of '5 less than zero'.

 

[Then they repeat the example with 3 minus 6.]

 

You've probably heard of less than zero numbers before. They're actually called negative numbers, and instead of writing 'less than zero' beside them, we use a little minus sign. So '5 less than zero' is actually called 'negative 5'. Written with a little minus sign it looks like this: -5.

 

<snip>

 

Problem Set 77

.....

14. 4-7

15. 1-9

16. 3-15

 

 

My 2nd grader already understands this concept, so the idea that a 7th grader could not understand this section of TT Prealgebra without having previously read almost the exact same lesson in TT7 doesn't make sense to me. :confused:

 

The introductions to roots and powers are also very simple and basic and assume no prior knowledge, so again I see no advantage in having previously read the same 2-3 page introductory lesson in TT7 before starting TT Prealgebra.

 

Jackie

[Corraleno]

And I keep reading that it's "easy" even using a grade above. We haven't started yet so I'll need to determine if that's because TT is just that good at teaching the concepts or if the work is really easy?

 

I think the answer is: both. TT breaks the concepts down into very small, bite-size chunks and they explain them very very well. Then they provide easy problem sets which build confidence so the student feels like they really "get" it. Some kids (like my DS11) just go blank when faced with a difficult or tricky problem; instead of taking it as a challenge and trying to puzzle his way through it, he just throws up his hands and says he's stupid and doesn't get it. For kids like that, I think TT is absolutely perfect.

 

My plan for DS is to have him finish TT Prealgebra over the summer (along with LoF Prealgebra & Biology), then do both TT Alg I & II next year in 7th. Then a year of Geometry in 8th, and in 9th I'll have him try the Chalkdust Combined Algebra course, which covers Alg I & II at a more rigorous level. Hopefully that will provide the best of both worlds.

 

Jackie

[calandalsmom]

Everything from 4th grade math to pre algebra is merely review so by that theory (that its explained again later) you could skip ahead to pre algebra as soon as you cover fractions and decimals in grade 4.

 

But in my experience many kids need a little more review of the concepts, which is why we review them.

 

If your child could skip TT 7 that's fine, but I don't think its at all reasonable to state that others SHOULD skip it because its merely remedial.

[Guest]

I think the answer is: both. TT breaks the concepts down into very small, bite-size chunks and they explain them very very well. Then they provide easy problem sets which build confidence so the student feels like they really "get" it. Some kids (like my DS11) just go blank when faced with a difficult or tricky problem; instead of taking it as a challenge and trying to puzzle his way through it, he just throws up his hands and says he's stupid and doesn't get it. For kids like that, I think TT is absolutely perfect.

 

Jackie

 

Hi Jackie,

I have been following this thread with great interest since TT has been the math program I would like to move to after we are done with the 6 Horizons levels. We also use Singapore Math and will continue to do so. I have been following your comments with the most interest and just wanted to ask, would you then say that TT is not suitable or at least too easy (as in not challenging enough) for a child that appears to be good in math (he is only 6 now so I don’t know what the future holds) and grasps math concept easily?

TIA,

[calandalsmom]

Not Jackie, but if your child is 6 I think its a little early to be planning that far ahead.

[Corraleno]

Without the introduction [to negative numbers, etc] which you seem to think unnecessary my child was not able to test into TT pre algebra.

 

I just want to make sure everyone understands the scoring for the placement test. The student only needs to get 10 of the first 15 problems correct, and 8 of the second 15 problems correct, to "pass" into Prealgebra.

 

26 of the 30 questions involve basic operations, fractions, decimals, and percents. Only 2 involve negative numbers, 2 involve geometry, and none involve roots or powers, so you absolutely do not need prior exposure to those concepts to start Prealgebra.

 

Most students who have completed TT6 (or any other 6th grade program) should be able to achieve a score of 18 out of 30 on the placement test for Prealgebra. A student who gets more than 12 problems wrong probably does not have a good grasp of fractions, decimals & percents and needs more review ~ which is exactly what TT7 is designed for.

 

Jackie

[Corraleno]

Hi Jackie,

I have been following this thread with great interest since TT has been the math program I would like to move to after we are done with the 6 Horizons levels. We also use Singapore Math and will continue to do so. I have been following your comments with the most interest and just wanted to ask, would you then say that TT is not suitable or at least too easy (as in not challenging enough) for a child that appears to be good in math (he is only 6 now so I don’t know what the future holds) and grasps math concept easily?

TIA,

 

If you have a mathy kid who's doing well in Singapore and enjoys the challenge, I personally wouldn't change to TT. To me, the two primary reasons for using TT are either (1) the student needs a gentle math program with very clear, step-by-step instruction and problem sets that build confidence rather than provide challenge, or (2) either the parent or child feels they need a self-teaching program. I can also see it being used for a very mathy kid who wants to do Algebra really young (like 4th or 5th grade) but isn't quite ready for a formal Algebra text.

 

TT has been a godsend for my math-hating DS11, but I plan to keep my math-loving DD7 in Math Mammoth (similar to Singapore) through 6th and then maybe do Lial's BCM or Chalkdust for Prealgebra. But that's a long way away at this point! Maybe they'll have implantable math chips by then, LOL.

 

Jackie

[Guest]

Not Jackie, but if your child is 6 I think its a little early to be planning that far ahead.

 

Well, my question was actually of a general nature about a child good in math using TT. Since you mentioned it though I honestly do believe that having a plan is good regardless of the child’s age. It gives you a base to build on even if you don't end up using anything you originally intended. It also motivates you to research curricula and have a general idea about them before you are ready to use them. This then helps you make a better decision on what will be better suited for your given child and his/her needs and abilities. Also, as parent teachers we always plan ahead, I feel, the general focus and direction of our child's education. That's just me of course. I never like the unexpected or last minute decisions.

Thank you for your thoughts.

[Guest]

If you have a mathy kid who's doing well in Singapore and enjoys the challenge, I personally wouldn't change to TT.

 

We definitely don't intend to give up Singapore. We use two math programs and wish to continue using two. My goal is to add another program after we are done with Horizons 6. Singapore and Horizons are the two programs we are currently using.

 

 

To me, the two primary reasons for using TT are either (1) the student needs a gentle math program with very clear, step-by-step instruction and problem sets that build confidence rather than provide challenge, or (2) either the parent or child feels they need a self-teaching program.

 

Thank you for sharing this. So far we are not in any of these unless Adrian decides at some point in the future that he wants a self-teaching program :p. Only time will tell.

 

 

I can also see it being used for a very mathy kid who wants to do Algebra really young (like 4th or 5th grade) but isn't quite ready for a formal Algebra text.

 

Good point and good suggestion, hadn't thought of that :).

 

TT has been a godsend for my math-hating DS11, but I plan to keep my math-loving DD7 in Math Mammoth (similar to Singapore) through 6th and then maybe do Lial's BCM or Chalkdust for Prealgebra. But that's a long way away at this point!

 

I just came across MM from your posts in another thread and from others. I will check it out. Is there a point in doing MM and Singapore at the same time or are they too similar?

 

Maybe they'll have implantable math chips by then, LOL.

 

Jackie

 

Now there's a thought :D!

 

My apologies to the OP for hijacking this thread :tongue_smilie:!

[OMhscoach]

Just a thought to keep in mind, all math texts have the first 10 or so chapters as a review. This is used as a refresher for kids who take the summer off, homeschooled or public/private schooled. In Saxon we fly thru the first 15 chapters every year. I just switched my son to TT7 from the Saxon 7/6 and feel there is a little repeat but it is all "building blocks" for the next levels. Just my 2 cents.

[sweetsouthern]

can i ask one more question?

 

for 4th and 5th grade TT we dont use the workbooks at all. i just give the girls scratch paper for what they need.

 

are the workbooks needed for the older grades (since it looks like i will be moving dd up like now LOL! to 6th?) or can u just purchase the cd's? thoughts?

[yslek]

can i ask one more question?

 

for 4th and 5th grade TT we dont use the workbooks at all. i just give the girls scratch paper for what they need.

 

are the workbooks needed for the older grades (since it looks like i will be moving dd up like now LOL! to 6th?) or can u just purchase the cd's? thoughts?

 

TT6 and TT7 are set up the same way TT4 and TT5 are. We also didn't use the workbooks for levels 4 and 5, so when I purchased TT6 for B, I bought the CDs only. So far it's working out fine. I keep a whiteboard & marker by the computer, and the boys do their work on it. :)

[sweetbaby]

We only use the CDs also for 5th and 6th. The workbooks have the same material as the CDs. My children simply sit at the computer with pencil and paper in hand to work the problems. The lower level CDs have built in grade books to record all work, quizzes, etc. I love that.

 

As far as TT being behind, I think a child should take the placement test on the site in order to choose the right level. TT isn't remedial. It's for the "average" student. The first sections of each level are review of the previous level before diving into the "grade" level work so I could say TT5 is TT4/5 or TT6 is TT5/6, IMO. I think TT builds a great foundation with this. However, for the mathy child, I would definitely consider placing he/she ahead a level or so depending on the placement test.

[Lolly]

Just a thought to keep in mind, all math texts have the first 10 or so chapters as a review. This is used as a refresher for kids who take the summer off, homeschooled or public/private schooled. In Saxon we fly thru the first 15 chapters every year. I just switched my son to TT7 from the Saxon 7/6 and feel there is a little repeat but it is all "building blocks" for the next levels. Just my 2 cents.

 

Exactly. Math is REPETITIVE. It builds on itself. You learn to add in kindergarten or first grade. The first chapter of all math books from that point on into the very upper math courses start with addition and subtraction. This review is good. It is necessary for almost all students. Very, very few kids can truly master the subject without constant review for many, many years. Your kid finds it easy? Great! Now, what would happen if it wasn't there... I'm guessing that the odd child would be fine. If you school year round, that rust might not grow so fast.

 

TT is not remedial. In the upper grades, it does leave one or two things to the next level. If you read the TT website, they are very up front about exactly what topics are put at a different level. They are very few. I kept hearing about how TT Alg. 1 was behind. As a precaution this year, I had my dd who had just finished TT Geo. do a quick, brush up review of Alg 1 using a Lial's Alg. text. Guess what? She had absolutely no problem. There was probably one tiny section that she had not had in TT. It was incredibly easy for her to pick it up. She actually preferred the Lial's text (which she hated when I had her try to use it before using TT), so she switched to that series for Alg. 2. She is breezing through it. I credit TT for her good base. Their simple explanations helped her to truly understand algebra.

 

Should you use TT7 or prealgebra? Well, that depends on when you want your child starting algebra. Of course, you CAN start a child in alg straight from TT7. Prealgebra actually is not required to take algebra. You can pick it up straight from regular math. Prealgebra is actually a fairly new concept in the grand scheme of math. No one used to take it.:D

[calandalsmom]

Leaving aside the question of whether or not TT is rigorous, as I suspected TT does NOT recommend going from math 6 to pre algebra and skipping TT7.

 

We do not normally recommend skipping a grade level. If you feel that they could skip, then we would recommend taking the next level's placement test.

In this case Pre-Algebra. Though, in this case, we would actually recommend

taking the Math 7, and then possibly skipping Pre-Algebra, if needed.

[Haiku]

I read this thread and was curious, so I gave my 2nd grade dd the 3rd grade TT placement test. She got 100% on it. I gave her the 4th grade test. She got 87% on it. We use RightStart Math.

 

Tara

[tdeveson]

The program can be used as a stand-alone math curriculum. (And I agree on TT7 being unnecessary after TT6.) Someone here posted that her son uses only TT, and that he has passed his state exams with no trouble.

 

We do two lessons a day in 30 minutes. (We do an additional 45 minutes of Singapore Math and other supplements because ds is mathy and loves that stuff.)

 

What I do notice is that my son is very engaged with TT. The explanations are much better than mine, so he understands what he's doing, and since he's having a good time, he's not prone to day-dreaming or dawdling. I've given him the same problems to do from the TT workbook, and it takes him twice as long to work through the exact same problems. (I don't buy workbooks anymore.) That surprised me at the time, but in retrospect, it shouldn't have. I'm not sure this would apply to every kid, but it's a possible explanation for the speed at which your dc is burning through his lessons.

 

In your place, I'd have the dc take the TT placement test and take it from there. As well, if he continues burning through the lessons, assign two at a time as we do.

 

Good luck.

Edited December 21, 2009 by tdeveson

[Corraleno]

Leaving aside the question of whether or not TT is rigorous, as I suspected TT does NOT recommend going from math 6 to pre algebra and skipping TT7.

 

Well, that directly contradicts what they told someone else here, who also posted the email. Maybe they answer differently depending on the details of the original question? At least there is consistency in the sense that they acknowledge that students do no necessarily need TT7 and Prealgebra, and can skip one of them. However I don't understand the logic that if a student passes the Prealgebra placement they should still drop down a level and take TT7 anyway, and then go straight into Algebra ~ without having had all the "prealgebra" topics in their Prealgebra program. :confused:

 

I put my son in Prealgebra after Math Mammoth 5, because he passed the placement test, and he's doing fine. I still think parents should use the placement tests, and look over the Tables of Content, and use their own judgement about what level their child should be working on. If a child needs a ton of repetition, by all means do all levels. If a child is bored and unchallenged and can easily skip a level, by all means skip a level. That's the beauty of homeschool versus public school. :)

 

Jackie

[Brindee]

Interesting thread! :001_smile:

 

Just FYI for one poster who said she wasn't sure TT had the placement tests a couple of years ago--- that's when we did TT and they had the tests then, that's how I placed my kids.

 

My ds was going into 8th grade, and he placed in Algebra 1. My dd was going into 5th grade, and placed in Pre-Algebra. DD was on the line between TT7 and Pre-Algebra--meaning she hit the lowest mark to make it into Pre-Algebra. So I really considered doing the level 7. But hearing that there was quite a bit of review, I went with the Pre-Algebra (DD has a statement she makes, "I like a challenge!", so that was another reason I went with P-A). The review got her used to TT's methods and verbiage, and brought her up to speed, and she did fine with that level. The only reason we didn't move on with TT was that she said the guy's voice bothered her, so by the end she was not wanting to use the dvd's, just the book. She's not a picky person, but since it did bother her, we headed to something else the next year.

 

She did NOT feel ready to tackle Algebra 1 after finishing TT P-A, but that was just her. We let her sort of take some "time off" and work on her skilss by doing the LOF Dec. & %, and LOF Fractions, plus Singapore 5a and 5b. That was a very good review for her.

 

This year she STILL didn't want to do Algebra 1, so whe's working through CLE Math 8. She'll soon be starting LOF Beginning Algebra, and when she finishes that she'll do LOF Advanced Algebra. Then she'll do Geometry, then another Algebra 2, maybe the CD Alg 1 & 2 course that someone else was talking about.

 

Anyway, to me "behind" is a relative term. TT 's levels are just different. Use whatever level your child tests into, and it will be a good course! :001_smile:

[Mrs Mungo]

TT also assures me that their courses are NOT behind tho their scope and sequence may be different than other courses.

 

Nobody is bashing TT. Let's put it this way, it being "different" makes it "behind" other programs of the same name. You *will not* get a standard Algebra 2 scope and sequence from TT's Algebra 2. You need to do all the way through TT's Pre-Calc in order to get everything you would normally get in an Algebra 2 course with standard scope and sequence. That is what people are saying. TT is a great course and we are using it. However, we're using it at an accelerated pace because the average student needs to finish the pre-calc by the end of 11th grade, just as they normally would need to finish Algebra 2 by the end of 11th grade.

[Orthodox6]

Nobody is bashing TT. Let's put it this way, it being "different" makes it "behind" other programs of the same name. You *will not* get a standard Algebra 2 scope and sequence from TT's Algebra 2. You need to do all the way through TT's Pre-Calc in order to get everything you would normally get in an Algebra 2 course with standard scope and sequence. That is what people are saying. TT is a great course and we are using it. However, we're using it at an accelerated pace because the average student needs to finish the pre-calc by the end of 11th grade, just as they normally would need to finish Algebra 2 by the end of 11th grade.

 

Overall, I agree with you that TT deserves fair consideration. Yes, the "cover grade label" may read "4th" grade whereas the content within actually is for "3rd" grade (and even 2nd grade, in spots). To be fair, other courses on the market also bear misleading "cover grade labels". Saxon is an obvious example of "inflated" label. Horizons, possibly uses "deflated" labels. (Their 2nd grade course compares well with some other products labeled "3rd" grade, for example.) Best course of action is to find a math program which is a good "fit" for the particular student, then use the level for which the student is ready -- no matter what the cover page proclaims.

 

I do think, though, that the TT people owe it to their customers to state honestly and openly that both of their algebra courses must be completed in order to cover what other courses complete in only first year algebra. I had a friend get burned royally by discovering this too late. (Her son botched college entrance math test.)

[calandalsmom]

Overall I disagree that TT is not routinely bashed here on the forums by people who don't use it.;)

 

As for kids botching tests, I have heard both stories- kids well prepared who aced college entrance exams and kids who failed or had to "go back" because they were "behind".

 

I have always been told Sinagpore is a year ahead yet my son only tested at grade level when we had an academic survey done. Should I bash singapore?

 

This thread gave me enough anxiety that I bought TT pre algebra ahead of time (new no less) and my ds is working simultaneously thru level 7 and pre algebra bc despite knowing how to do things like decimals and percents and 4 digit multiplication (a more useless skill I can not even think of- i would never ever not use a calculator to do that sort of work IRL) he still makes mistakes.

[Brindee]

:001_huh:A lot of the people, at least in this thread, including me, are just saying---that's the way TT is, but we don't care because we like the way it works. We just find the level our kids are comfortable with and use that--whether it's "ahead" or "behind" doesn't matter. All that is is outside labeling. I don't see anyone bashing TT. People then, including me, are "bashing" Saxon when they say that they don't like it? Saxon did not work AT ALL for any of my children. I'm not bashing it when I say we don't like the program or how it works. I'm just stating what I've observed. So, it's the same when I say that I think TT content is a year or so behing their label of each level. That's not bashing it, that's just stating what I've observed within my own family, and what others have also observed. Since I really like TT, I'm certainly not bashing it! And I don't consider you bashing Singapore when you say that you don't believe it's a year ahead! :001_smile:

[Alyeska]

My dd is currently on lesson 62 of TT5. I gave her the placement test and she was only a couple of problems away from the recommended cutoff. Now I am wishing I had bumped her up a grade.

 

Today was the first lesson that has taken her more than 20 minutes. I feel like we have wasted a year, spent a lot on a program with WAY too much review, and all of this based on the placement test recommendation that we followed. Ugh.

 

And just to clarify, I think TT is a fine program that works well. I just think their placement testing needs to be more accurate...perhaps have longer placement tests, etc...so that a student's capabilities are fully recognized before placement.

Edited February 22, 2010 by Alyeska
clarification

[calandalsmom]

:001_huh:A lot of the people, at least in this thread, including me, are just saying---that's the way TT is, but we don't care because we like the way it works. We just find the level our kids are comfortable with and use that--whether it's "ahead" or "behind" doesn't matter. All that is is outside labeling. I don't see anyone bashing TT. People then, including me, are "bashing" Saxon when they say that they don't like it? Saxon did not work AT ALL for any of my children. I'm not bashing it when I say we don't like the program or how it works. I'm just stating what I've observed. So, it's the same when I say that I think TT content is a year or so behing their label of each level. That's not bashing it, that's just stating what I've observed within my own family, and what others have also observed. Since I really like TT, I'm certainly not bashing it! And I don't consider you bashing Singapore when you say that you don't believe it's a year ahead! :001_smile:

 

If you have 3500 posts here and have not seen TT called "substandard" and such then you are either not looking very hard or are willfully ignoring the facts of the matter.

 

My post wasnt addressing you specifically or even this thread in particular but rather the attitude towards TT which seems prevalent on this board.

[Brindee]

My dd is currently on lesson 62 of TT5. I gave her the placement test and she was only a couple of problems away from the recommended cutoff. Now I am wishing I had bumped her up a grade.

 

Today was the first lesson that has taken her more than 20 minutes. I feel like we have wasted a year, spent a lot on a program with WAY too much review, and all of this based on the placement test recommendation that we followed. Ugh.

 

And just to clarify, I think TT is a fine program that works well. I just think their placement testing needs to be more accurate...perhaps have longer placement tests, etc...so that a student's capabilities are fully recognized before placement.

Yeah, that can be frustrating! Just so you know (maybe you already do), TT has a good turn around. Usually you can sell it for a good enough amount that buying the next level isn't so hard! :001_smile:

[mrs.m]

My post wasnt addressing you specifically or even this thread in particular but rather the attitude towards TT which seems prevalent on this board.

 

I agree with this.

 

And I have absolutely NO problem with someone saying that they don't suggest it after they have tried it and really know about the program. I agree that not every curriculum works. But there is something about TT that can really bring out the claws.

 

I found WTM after I purchased TT thinking it would be great for my DD. I did a search on the threads and found a lot of people commenting that seemed to have never used the program. And they were not being favorable or really even fair. And I noticed that some of those people use programs that have different approaches to the general subject of math. So I spent weeks fretting over my choice to use TT. Until I figured out that some people are just opinionated about math on these forums.

 

I'm still not sure if it is what we will continue to use next year because it does seem a bit easy for my DD. But I also have come to the conclusion that math is just easy for her. She just gets it.

[Orthodox6]

I understand concern about people speaking negatively about a program which they have neither seen nor used. That's valid.

 

We have used TT-4, TT Alg. I, and TT Geometry. We have copious experience with Horizons, Saxon, BJUP, ABeka, and assorted other math programs. I joined the WTM boards in the first place because I had seen TT at fairs, and wondered whether it might be a good fit for my dd who has severe math LDs. We tried TT-4 this year, and recently returned to Horizons. We like TT just fine. I just happened to discover that DD's retention was even lower with TT than it had been with Horizons. So we'll just resume Horizons, and supplement with whatever topic-specific materials I can locate which help her.

[Alyeska]

Yeah, that can be frustrating! Just so you know (maybe you already do), TT has a good turn around. Usually you can sell it for a good enough amount that buying the next level isn't so hard! :001_smile:

 

Thank you!

 

Yes, I am banking on the resale so we can recoup some $$. :)

[Pongo]

I read this thread and was curious, so I gave my 2nd grade dd the 3rd grade TT placement test. She got 100% on it. I gave her the 4th grade test. She got 87% on it. We use RightStart Math.

 

Tara

 

I also was curious. My ds is not a math lover. He is in 4th, and just placed into TT 7:001_huh: he uses MUS & BJU.

My dd is in 5th and 1/3 of the way through Chalkdust 6( slogging through it, I might add) and placed into TT-Pre-Alg, and her mistakes were foolish:glare:

 

To be fair I pulled up the placement test for Singapore they took a few months ago. Ds placed into 4B and dd placed into 6B.

[johnandtinagilbert]

My son is doing TT7. He has been whizzing through lessons. I'm not sure if it's really easy since he just started...maybe it's all review right now? Or is the curriculum actually behind a grade or two?

 

(And of course, today my 30 day return period expired.)

 

:smilielol5:run away from the TT debate....:auto: