Mandarin: Traditional or Simplified???

[hlee]

Hi everyone--I have a question for those of you whose children are learning Mandarin. Our son was enrolled in a Chinese school for two years but then this year we pulled him out due to scheduling issues and just continued with the curriculum ourselves. We are not Chinese-American and thus had no idea before entering the school that it was started and run by Taiwanese Americans who largely prefer the traditional characters, which is what we have learned to date.

 

I am debating whether to switch my son to simplified characters at this point, or if there are reasons to continue with traditional. I'm not so concerned with preserving Chinese culture (at least with regards to my kids' language study!) and it seems as though the majority of mainland China as well as schools in the U.S. likely teach simplified characters. But, before I make the switch, I would be interested to know if anyone here has chosen traditional characters instead of simplified, and if so, why. I have heard (although I don't know if it's true) that if you have learned traditional, you can probably figure out simplified characters but that the reverse is not necessarily true. Also, I am wondering if we make the switch, whether that will pretty much negate any of the progress that my 7 year old has made with learning characters to date. He's memorized tons of them over the past year and a half, and I'd prefer that work not go out the window! But if I'm going to bite the bullet and make the switch, I imagine that now is the time...

 

Thoughts?

 

Thanks!

Helen

[HSDCY]

I chose simplified over traditional because more people are using it, and it's a lot easier to write.

 

I don't think it's true that it will be harder to read traditional Chinese if you learn simplified version first. I have some friends from China, and they told me they had no problem reading traditional Chinese. I also don't think it's going to matter that much if you switch now because at the beginners' level, a lot of those words are written the same or very similar.

 

But whether to switch or not depends on what your goals are. If you think speaking the language is a lot more important than reading and writing, then it does not really matter which version you choose.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

May I ask what curriculum you use for chinese?

[hlee]

I'm using Better Chinese right now and have the first book in traditional characters.

[The Governess]

We are using traditional characters with Better Chinese also. I originally decided on the traditional characters because my dd3 is adopted from Taiwan and, like you mentioned, that is what they use there. Since making that decision I have also read that traditional characters have more of the original meaning in the pictogram, whereas the simplified characters require more straight memorization to learn because it is harder to identify the underlying meaning of the character.

 

Not all characters have a simplified version. Many of the most commonly used characters do not. So if you decided to switch to simplified at this point you may only have to re-learn 1/3 of the characters.

 

I would like to learn both simplified and traditional in the long run. I found a free online course that MIT offers and it teaches simplified and traditional simultaneously. I thought this was a great idea! I plan on going through this program and then teaching my girls how to read simplified at some point as well.

[cylau]

I learned traditional Chinese growing up. During my last 2 years of school, my Chinese teacher decided to use simplified Chinese to teach us. To this day, I am forever grateful for this switch.

 

Lovelearnandlive is right that the traditional characters have more of the original meaning and that not all characters have simplified version. I think at this point, it is your choice to switch or not. I don't think it is hard to switch at all. However, once you switch, it will be hard to switch back because you are not in an environment that promote learning of Chinese characters. Sometimes you can easily guess what character is what (traditional to simplified or vice versa), but sometimes the characters look almost totally different. In this case, you can guess by the context and what character it pairs up with to guess the meaning, since traditional and simplified share most of the characters. For example, "cake" takes up 2 characters, if you know the first character, but not the second one, provided the context, you can probably guess it means "cake". Does that make sense?

 

Even with my 2 years of training in simplified Chinese, I can understand 90% of simplified Chinese and I guess the rest. I do pretty good.

 

I taught my DS simplified Chinese because it is easier to learn and more popular. I also supplement with traditional characters just to make him understand the meaning of the root in relationship to the pictogram.

[Laura Corin]

I would go with simplified - it's easier and more common. The only people who use complex are in Taiwan, Hong Kong and the Chinese diaspora. I learned simplified, followed by complex, followed by simplified. My children are only learning simplified, although long term I'd like them to be able to recognise (but not necessarily write) complex.

 

Laura

[nono]

I would go with simplified - it's easier and more common. The only people who use complex are in Taiwan, Hong Kong and the Chinese diaspora.

 

Well, you just dissed most of my family. :tongue_smilie:

 

To the OP, what are your goals for your child? That may help you decide. For me, I don't want my children to be "common" and therefore we are taking a two-pronged approach. Just as my children are learning both printing and cursive writing, they are learning traditional and simplified Chinese characters. The strokework that comes with writing traditional characters seems to me to build a better understanding of the language and overall feel for the written word. (Right now, we chalk it mostly on the board for my younger, and only a few characters, like his name).

 

If you just want your child to be able to travel and read simple websites that are largely based out of mainland China, then I'd skip traditional. But, if you'd like him to read some history, and maybe get a balanced view of Chinese history and culture, it is valuable to know both.

[Makita]

We, too, chose simplified. However, after reading the posts here in this thread I see value in learning both. I had previously mistakenly purchased some materials in traditional - but will hang on to them now.

 

Thank you!

:D

[Laura Corin]

Well, you just dissed most of my family. :tongue_smilie:

 

I lived in Taiwan for five years and in Hong Kong for seven. Fine places both but with relatively small populations.

 

Best wishes

 

Laura

[LoveChocolate]

We went to Chinese school for two years (Taiwanese). And, the schedule just got to be too much.

 

I heard the debate, and people feel strongly about their choices. For us, I decided I would just be happy if my kids got to a point where they understood Chinese at a basic level. Since I don't speak Chinese, I figured understanding would be an accomplishment in and of itself.

 

So, we hired a tutor who comes for once a week. She is teaching simplified. I'm fine with it. I don't have a strong opinion either way. I just want my kids to have the verbal skills and knowing a few of the frequently used characters (simplified or traditional) would be nice.

 

When I talked to people who learned English as a second language, they don't seem to be big readers. Most have a more rudimentary reading/writing skills in the 2nd language. They tell me they would never sit down and read a book in the second language because it would be distracting. They always read in their native language.

 

So, knowing that I feel like for my kids reading is going to be more of "can you read the signs in the airport" kind of thing.

 

That is my approach to learning. But honestly, this comes from having a difficult time just finding people to teach/tutor that I've lowered my expectations a bit. If I had more choices, I'm sure I would look at the situation in a different way.

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

When I talked to people who learned English as a second language, they don't seem to be big readers. Most have a more rudimentary reading/writing skills in the 2nd language. They tell me they would never sit down and read a book in the second language because it would be distracting. They always read in their native language.

 

 

Well I beg to differ here... English *is* my second language, it's my DH's second language, and my kids' too. We all read in whatever language we can get the book in, whether it's French or English. In fact, most people I know will read in both languages. So to say that "They always read in their native language" is completely wrong.

[Makita]

I enjoy reading in my 2nd language - it just takes me longer so I don't get to do it often. I find it difficult to find time to read leisurely in my 1st language. When the kids get older and more self-sufficient - I know I will resume reading in my 2nd language.

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

My daughter is learning with Simplified. Not because we thought about it, but because the school we chose uses that.

 

Their justification is like Laura's, the only people who are still using Traditional are the Chinese diaspora. Local Chinese newspapers cater to that diaspora, and will use traditional signs. Local street signs in Chinatown will too. In short, you can reverse the justification and say "only people in China use simplified characters". Granted, that's a big number of people but that implies most North Americans will encounter traditional writing more than simplified.

 

Will that change in 20 years, now that China is opening up ? Who knows...

[nono]

I lived in Taiwan for five years and in Hong Kong for seven. Fine places both but with relatively small populations.

 

Best wishes

 

Laura

 

Oh, I'm teasing you! I meant this---> :tongue_smilie: in a fun way. No disrespect taken. Cripes, you should come by when we have the "Mandarin v. Cantonese" debate with our family! :D

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Are there any simplified chinese curricula with book and DVD or online instruction?

[langfam]

I was taught traditional Chinese for a couple of years, then all the schools in Singapore switched to simplified. The transition was easy and I was taught simplified for the next 10 years. My kids learn simplified too.

[Matryoshka]

When I talked to people who learned English as a second language, they don't seem to be big readers. Most have a more rudimentary reading/writing skills in the 2nd language. They tell me they would never sit down and read a book in the second language because it would be distracting. They always read in their native language.

 

 

I read in my second and third languages regularly - that's one of the ways I keep up. There are times when I read more in those languages than in English (at least as far as book reading). I find it as easy and relaxing as English.

 

Chinese of course is a whole 'nother ball of wax since it's not phonetic. I'm planning on having us learn simplified characters for all the reasons others stated.

[LoveChocolate]

Well I beg to differ here... English *is* my second language, it's my DH's second language, and my kids' too. We all read in whatever language we can get the book in, whether it's French or English. In fact, most people I know will read in both languages. So to say that "They always read in their native language" is completely wrong.

 

 

Um, I'm not sure that you read my email correctly or I wrote it poorly. I said "The people I've talked to [They] always read in the first language." I'm not sure why this would require a "beg to differ" statement.

 

I was also using it as a reference to our situation, which I described as having limited choices. I said, "But honestly, this comes from having a difficult time just finding people to teach/tutor that I've lowered my expectations a bit. If I had more choices, I'm sure I would look at the situation in a different way."

 

I use to work with translation companies, I know there are people who read in multiple languages equally. I wasn't making a blanket statement about all dual-language speakers only the people I've talked with in a casual way as I tried to figure out what to do. It seemed that in general, the people that I've talked to weren't that interested in reading beyond the basics. This is probably due to time constraints. With what limited time/resources we have, I decided it was more important to focus on listening/speaking.

 

If you are able to do more that that, you are blessed. I wish we had more options.

[Joyful]

Just to add to the discussion,....

 

Apart from in China, simplified characters are used in Singapore. Traditional characters are used in Taiwan, Hong Kong, and the Chinese communities in North American (I can't comment about in other continents b/c I don't know).

 

Many of my friends from China have learned to read traditional characters since coming to the US. But I have met a few who find that transition difficult. Often the same simplified character is used for different words (different traditional characters) that sound the same. And one figures out the meaning based on context.

 

I attended elementary school in Taiwan, so I learned the traditional characters. Since coming to the US I have not done much to keep up my language skills. But, I can still read some... I have some difficulty with reading simplified characters. I think that it may be more a function of the fact that I don't read Chinese so often, and that my Chinese in general is just so-so.

 

We teach our children traditional characters because that is what they will be contact with in North American communities and in their travels to visit family in Taiwan and Hong Kong.

 

FWIW, I think that you will be fine either way if you chose simplified or traditional. The children can like pick up the other later if they have the interest (and/or the need, you know, the whole immersion thing). I agree that they will most likely be fine switch now.

 

On a side note,

Markita, too bad you're keeping your books...

I was thinking of maybe buying them. Now, no chance. :tongue_smilie:

 

Happy Holidays everyone!

[Makita]

On a side note,

Markita, too bad you're keeping your books...

I was thinking of maybe buying them. Now, no chance. :tongue_smilie:

 

 

If you want them - I'd be more than happy to sell them to you! I just hadn't had any interest expressed thus far... Let me know. ;)

[HSDCY]

Are there any simplified chinese curricula with book and DVD or online instruction?

Better Chinese at www.betterchinese.com has both traditional and simplified versions of books. They have audio CDs that match with books, and they also have online lessons.

[nono]

Hi all! I had to pop back in and tell you about my husband's observation on this topic. I told him the simplified v. traditional question had arisen here. He asked, "Isn't this the board that favors studying Latin? Is anyone really in favor of simplified then?"

 

I thought that was an interesting point. He was surprised that there wasn't more of a push towards traditional characters so as to be able to read things written before the 1950s. In the end analysis though, we both think that studying Chinese needs the end goal in mind to make a suitable character set choice (as I mentioned in my other post).

[Laura Corin]

He asked, "Isn't this the board that favors studying Latin? Is anyone really in favor of simplified then?"

 

I thought that was an interesting point. He was surprised that there wasn't more of a push towards traditional characters so as to be able to read things written before the 1950s.

 

I compare it to when I studied French. I spent middle school and high school studying modern French. By the end of high school, I was able to read 17th Century French. When I reached university, I worked on Renaissance and Medieval French.

 

In the same way, I would love for my sons to become really fluent in the most widely used modern script of Chinese, then work their way into the classics in traditional script.

 

Laura

[hlee]

Just to bring closure to this thread (for me, anyway!), I have decided to go with simplified. I recently talked it over with a relative whose parents are from Taiwan and who originally learned traditional; her mom has worked at the Yale library and said that the Library of Congress apparently recently chose to redo their entire library of Chinese content into simplified characters. My father-in-law, who is Korean but has been learning Chinese and does a great deal of business there, says it makes sense to learn simplified first then if my kids have any interest and inclination, to add the traditional later. So that is where I have ended up. Thanks for all the great input!