yslek Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 I posted this question on another board; thought I'd try here as well. :001_smile: My ds9 is working on MUS Gamma, and has started having a bit of trouble with the mulitple-digit multiplication (lesson 24 right now.) We've slowed down the pace, and he's getting it now, but I'm wondering if it's just going to get worse as we progress. (We had some REALLY BAD math days last week!) I've read that others have hit a hitch at this same point in Gamma. So I was wondering if anyone has taken a break from Gamma and started on Delta, then switched back to finish Gamma later, then finished Delta, or something similar. If so, what exactly did you do? Did it help? Any advice? :confused: (I asked him today if he'd rather switch to TT, and he said he wanted to stick with MUS, which surprised me after last week.) :001_huh: TIA Kelsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marie in Oh Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 and I thought about it last year. My ds is finishing Delta now but was where you are last year. What I did was just require less problems. If there was 8 multi digit multiplication problems, I had him do 4 plus the word problems. It really was enough. They come back to them mid way through Delta and he did them just fine, without complaint. He even remembered that they were so hard to him last year and fine this year. Sooooo, you could just intoduce single digit division now and come back to multi digit multiplication next fall, or you could just require less knowing they will see it again next year. I've cut back on the long division problems a bit this year though he hasn't struggled with that as much as I feared. HTH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hwfquilts Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 That sounds like a good idea, actually. We really got bogged down in Delta with the LONG problems (and my son can make anything take a long time!). The end of Gamma with the long problems was also challenging, but I let him spread them out and do one page over 2 days (we school through the summer, so I wasn't in a big hurry for him to finish). Does he know his multiplication and addition facts well? If this is slowing him down, you might want to consider daily drill. My son is now in 5th grade (Epsilon) and I still have him do 80 problems of addition, subtraction, multiplication or division Monday - Thursday (that's one operation per day, not all four each day!). He hates it, but it helps keep it fresh and has made him a little speedier with longer problems. Best, Heather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yslek Posted March 18, 2008 Author Share Posted March 18, 2008 Thanks for the replies. He could definitely know his multiplicaiton facts better. I did make sure he knew them before progressing to the next lesson (when learning the basic facts) but they seem to have flown out of his head since then. I do have him use the online drill at MUS's site, and I've recently ordered Quarter Mile math with the hope that the excitement of a race might make things stick better. I've used Calculadders, too, but not much. He's fine with addition. We have actually slowed down to 1/2 page per day, out of necessity. Last Thursday I tried to get him through one page and it took hours! Not my idea of fun. (Or his either, for that matter!) :tongue_smilie: Kelsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenstet Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 We used Gamma at the beginning of the year. We were cruising until we hit the multi-digit problems. They just take longer. Also, I felt like there was enough time between some lessons that she needed drills. We did the 5 minute drills. 100 problems in 5 minutes. She could do them in under 3 minutes so I backed off to 2-3 drills a week or so. Now we are in division (delta?) and I have her doing 4 multi digit multiplication problems a day. Just to keep it fresh in her mind. I think it is one of those things that if they don't use it often enough it falls out of their brains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verena Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 Ds is exactly where your dc is and we could feel our "muscles strain" as we were stepping up to lesson 23 :) I don't mind the harder work per se or that it takes longer. But what I really found lacking was a good explanation for the 2-digit multiplication. Mr. Demme wants you to set up the problem with the blocks before you start writing down anything, but *I* don't even get THAT part (and this is only 3rd grade, lol). It's the first time that I'm totally stumped as to how to set up the blocks. I know how to solve the problems on paper and I explained that to ds, but the whole block-thing has me clueless. This is of course not what you were asking, but if anyone has any insight, I'd be :bigear: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yslek Posted March 19, 2008 Author Share Posted March 19, 2008 I think he was trying to show visually what a two-digit by two-digit multiplication problem "looks" like. Say you're multiplying 13 x 15. You would build a rectangle that measures 13 units down one side and 15 units across another. You would end up using 1 hundred, 8 tens, and 15 units (or 3 fives, or 5 threes, whatever fits into that leftover space to make your set-up a rectangle.) I tried to explain this to my ds by building the rectangle, then holding a piece of paper so he can only see the "13" side or the "15" side. The point is, I think, to see that even though this is one problem, there are four sub-problems,which we can see as four separate rectangles within the big rectangle. They are the hundred square, the 3 tens at the top, the 5 tens at the side, and then the collection of 15 units in the corner. This is analogous to the four multiplicaiton actions one needs to take in solving the problem 13 x 15 (5x3, 5x10, 10x3, and 10x10). I can see how that could be information overload. I can see my son's eyes glaze over whenever this comes up, so we've just been working on the mechanics of problem-solving. I think he "gets" it, but the visual isn't connecting. That's fine with me. I thought the rectangle thing was really cool, though. It really helped me to visualize what's going on. I hope that my explanation wasn't even more confusing than the MUS one! ;) Kelsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quad Shot Academy Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 Did you see Steve's hint to turn a piece of notebook paper sideways and use the lines as columns to help keep these problems organized? When we went back and watched the DVD the second time because he was getting confused, I gave that a try and it worked great! My son also had trouble with the upcoming notation problems, so I saved the book and plan to revisit after he learns all the simple division problems. I think it is a great idea to trade off doing Gamma and Delta at the same time. We love QM math here!!!:auto: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yslek Posted March 19, 2008 Author Share Posted March 19, 2008 Did you see Steve's hint to turn a piece of notebook paper sideways and use the lines as columns to help keep these problems organized?: Yes! This has helped my ds also. (He prefers to draw columns on the workbook problems in the book, but the idea is the same.) He has huge, sloppy writing, which sometimes messes him up, but the main problem has been trying to understand, and then remember how to work the problems. He was doing OK with the 2-digit by 2-digit problems today (only missed one on half of a page, as opposed to only getting one right the first time yesterday.) I'm just worried that this will get worse as the lessons progress, and thought that maybe learning simple division might make sense before tackling the rest of Gamma. Any hints are appreciated, though, and that is a good one that's easy to miss. :) (When I went to school in Germany, we used graph paper for all of our math work. I still prefer to do math that way, as it is so much easier to keep everything straight.) I'm glad you like QM; hoping ds will, too. (Can't wait to get it! :)) Kelsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 has been learning her multiplication tables. Doing double-digit multiplication is much, much less cumbersome when those multiplication facts can be recalled quickly and automatically. Do whatever it takes for those facts to be memorized and it may get much easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verena Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 I got it now, thanks so much. I guess the "left over" rectangle just threw me for a loop- the part where you add the extra units in the corner. Yeah, my sons eyes glazed over, too- lol. I think tomorrow we'll start over and get the blocks out again. I want him to have the visual and the tactile understanding as well- and now I'll be able to explain it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yslek Posted March 21, 2008 Author Share Posted March 21, 2008 Strider - I know you're right. :iagree: It's hard enough trying to keep track of the order in which to multiply all the numbers and where to write what without having to think about the computation as well. The Quarter Mile program arrived yesterday, and I let ds try it out right away. He absolutely loved it; I had to kick him off the computer! Hopefully that will help. Verena - Glad that made sense to you. :001_smile: It was kind of funny...as I was typing, I was picturing the problem in my head, and realized that I came up with the answer much more easily than I would have had I not been picturing the blocks. :001_huh: (BTW, my kids are close in age to yours. I have a ds9, ds7, dd4, and ds2 :001_smile:) I actually decided to go ahead and have ds start lesson 1 of Delta yesterday. I think it was a relief to him to have something easy to do. I think I'm going to keep plugging away at Gamma as well, though. We'll switch back and forth, and see how it goes. Kelsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amy loves Bud Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 My son is in Epsilon now, and he hit the same wall with multiple digit multiplication. What we did was go ahead and start Delta, and alternate with the last bits of Gamma. The beginning of Delta is so easy that it gives them a nice break, and stretching out the multiplication like that makes it more palatable for them. Now we are in Epsilon and Luke has mastered both multiple digit multiplication and division with no problems. I hope this helps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacia Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Great original question & great ideas. We may just try this ourselves! I was beating my head on the wall this morning w/ dd & our Gamma lesson. :glare: She & I could probably both use a change of pace like you gals have suggested. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfrecore Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 http://www.mathusee.com/blog/?p=110 He was really great in explaining how one of his kids just needs a LOT more explanation from him than the others did. So, he actually DOES the problem for the kid, with the kid watching, and him explaining, SEVERAL times, before he ever has the kid do it himself. I listed to a CD of Andrew Pudewa (IEW), who also talked about giving a child a LOT of help if needed. It was an interesting take on things. It seems that here in America, we have this thing where we feel like a kid has to figure things out better, and that we shouldn't be "giving them the answer". Some kids just need a lot more from us before we can expect them to do on their own. Unfortunate, I KNOW! :tongue_smilie: Anyway, I highly suggest this blog, and will listen to it myself when I start to get frustrated with a subject that one of my dc needs more help on. I imagine that I will listen to it MANY times!!! Danika Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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