Spin off of Raising the Bar... How do you raise output?...

[Nan in Mass]

If the required output is at too low a level or too high a level, my son passively resists and either refuses to put any effort into it or changes the assignment to be something interesting that he can do, thereby defeating the purpose of the assignment. If the input (the textbook or whatever) is at a high enough level that he finds it interesting and has to think, the output expected is almost always too high. I am not good at figuring out how to modify it so that it is still challenging, but not too challenging. Any suggestions?

-Nan

[Susan C.]

Hi Nan,

I think we may be on the other side of the spectrum--plowing through the textbooks and dazed... I have found if we have harder material, it takes longer. Easier, less time. With all options open in homeschooling, I think we always torture ourselves trying to find a balance. I feel kids learn more if the material is on the easier side, so they can move at a good pace, and not get discouraged or bogged down. Also, it is good to have a start and a finish (chapters, units etc.), have it in chunks of time (3-4 wks), so they can regularly feel like they have accomplished something.

 

An example of too hard, too much for one subject is this: I was doing Chalkdust Geometry with dd. It took all afternoon... I finally figured out that that was what was messing up our homeschool. Other subjects were just sitting, and we were running out of day. There is no crime in getting an easier math program. We are doing BJU Geometry with dvds. It isn't the only program to chose from. But this program breaks each lesson down into even chunks, and takes less time to do, and at the end of the year, dd will know geometry (and her other subjects as well).

 

Hope this helps, this thread is interesting, I am enjoying everyone's thoughts!

[JennW in SoCal]

***sigh*** What a timely thread starter.

 

This holiday weekend has featured a young master of procrastination who is now, at 9pm Sunday night, finally getting serious about his Iliad essay. "Put off until tomorrow everything that should be done today" seems to be his motto.

 

So, I don't know how to raise output. I assign, I cajole and tease, I schedule, discuss and make clear what I expect. He has deadlines and outside accountability. And the stinker usually does good work when it is last minute as he is a natural writer. But increasing output, improving study habits --- can't say I'm in a position to give advice tonight!!! I'm more in the mood to rant!

 

Nan, I don't know if you were specifically talking about assignments that come with textbooks or curricula. My kids found most text book questions to be silly and innane and never took them seriously. They did much better with WEM and WTM style assignments where topics came up through reading and discussion. And I didn't mind letting them be creative with how they handled some assignments as long as I felt real learning was happening. Both my boys have always rolled their eyes at me when I tell them things will be different in college -- as if they are saying "well no duh! I wouldn't challenge a professor's assignments, but you're just MOM so we can get away with it!"

 

**sigh** again

[Jane in NC]

***sigh*** What a timely thread starter.

 

 

Nan, I don't know if you were specifically talking about assignments that come with textbooks or curricula. My kids found most text book questions to be silly and innane and never took them seriously. They did much better with WEM and WTM style assignments where topics came up through reading and discussion. And I didn't mind letting them be creative with how they handled some assignments as long as I felt real learning was happening. Both my boys have always rolled their eyes at me when I tell them things will be different in college -- as if they are saying "well no duh! I wouldn't challenge a professor's assignments, but you're just MOM so we can get away with it!"

 

**sigh** again

 

Oh, Jenn, we must be long lost cousins since our boys all share the same argumentative gene! My son has been known to spend more time arguing over why he cannot do an assignment than actually doing the assignment. Most of these arguments have historically focused on written assignments, whether writing itself or written answers to textbook type questions. You are lucky to have a natural writer. My son is not one.

 

Interestingly, my son does not protest the essay or discussion questions that his virtual Latin instructor poses. He is in his second English class at the CC and has complained loudly about both his present and past instructors. Nonetheless, after the complaining is over, he does things the way they want them done.

 

I felt that perhaps, just maybe, "we" had grown beyond the need to protest assigned questions but unfortunately the Common App supplement questions have brought us back to this place. Some of the schools ask for such a large picture: "How will you use your educational opportunities at Rah Rah U to seek your place in the larger world?" You can just hear my son barking: "How in the world am I supposed to know if I have only visited campus once and don't know the professors other than so-in-so with whom I spoke for thirty minutes? How do I know if I will stick with my intended major? How do I know where I'll be in ten or twenty years?" He has some valid points, but ignoring the question on an application is not really going to work here.

 

There is one particular supplement that has stymied him which asks the student to respond in an essay to one of three related points. My son's attempts have been all over the planet. Yesterday I asked him to walk away from the computer, take a sheet of paper and make three rows or columns. Examine his life and organize information under the three headings, the potential essay topics. Then choose one and write a focused essay on it. After five minutes he jumped off and ran back to his laptop. He "saw" the essay he wanted to write but he failed to complete the organizational assignment.

 

This concerns me as The Boy prepares to leave for college. When he is organized, he can write reasonably well. But moving him to a point of organization, especially on abstract or broad topics, is a challenge. (His last first draft for his English class was tight and well written--but it was a topic that he had chosen. Ah, there is a difference!) His last English prof taught a nice organizational system before committing pencil to paper or fingers to keyboard. It worked well, but as the system is no longer required by his current prof, it seems to be abandoned. Sigh...

 

Boy, I think I have derailed this from Nan's initial question, but Jenn's comments resonated with me.

 

Jane

[Nan in Mass]

No, it is comforting to know I am not the only one. This all sounds so very, very familiar, Jenn and Jane. Unfortunately, our children are sensible.

-Nan

[Nan in Mass]

You probably are right about plowing through materials on the easier side. I can't seem to find anything that is on the easier side, though. I either find materials that are a terrible slog, or ones that my son more or less refuses to do becauase he says he isn't learning anything. I'm not sure that is always true, about his not learning anything, but it is sort of a moot point if he refuses to cooperate. He will do things if I say, "I don't care if it is easy; you still have to do it" but only because I don't do it too often. He becomes uneducatable when he is angry. Guess I'm not very draconian sigh.

-Nan

[Brenda in MA]

I felt that perhaps, just maybe, "we" had grown beyond the need to protest assigned questions but unfortunately the Common App supplement questions have brought us back to this place. Some of the schools ask for such a large picture: "How will you use your educational opportunities at Rah Rah U to seek your place in the larger world?" You can just hear my son barking: "How in the world am I supposed to know if I have only visited campus once and don't know the professors other than so-in-so with whom I spoke for thirty minutes? How do I know if I will stick with my intended major? How do I know where I'll be in ten or twenty years?" He has some valid points, but ignoring the question on an application is not really going to work here.

 

There is one particular supplement that has stymied him which asks the student to respond in an essay to one of three related points. My son's attempts have been all over the planet. Yesterday I asked him to walk away from the computer, take a sheet of paper and make three rows or columns. Examine his life and organize information under the three headings, the potential essay topics. Then choose one and write a focused essay on it. After five minutes he jumped off and ran back to his laptop. He "saw" the essay he wanted to write but he failed to complete the organizational assignment.

 

This concerns me as The Boy prepares to leave for college. When he is organized, he can write reasonably well. But moving him to a point of organization, especially on abstract or broad topics, is a challenge. (His last first draft for his English class was tight and well written--but it was a topic that he had chosen. Ah, there is a difference!) His last English prof taught a nice organizational system before committing pencil to paper or fingers to keyboard. It worked well, but as the system is no longer required by his current prof, it seems to be abandoned. Sigh...

 

Boy, I think I have derailed this from Nan's initial question, but Jenn's comments resonated with me.

 

Jane

 

Jane,

 

I can definitely relate to your thoughts about your son's experiences with the college application process and with writing assignments in general. My son sounds like he is very similar. We got through the application essays and mini-essays like you are describing with me helping him to organize his thoughts and make many lists of qualities, interests, etc. to help him spark his writing. Somehow, we all survived the process.

 

He's doing well in his one humanities class he is taking this semester. He spent a frustrating several weeks trying to figure out what the instructor wanted in the short essays that are due every week. I helped him via phone and internet a few times, and he's gone to the TA and spoken with his classmates as well. The bottom line is that he is figuring out what is required and is doing it.

 

I think that what is really helping him here is that he is not afraid to go and ask for help, and he is also pretty persistent in wanting to produce the writing that the instructor is asking for. In short, I think what is getting him through is not his organizational skills or his writing ability, it's those other intangible attributes like persistence and humility. I'm sorry that these writing assignments don't come naturally for him, but I'm very pleased to see him finding a way to get things done. When he expresses frustration about having to ask for help, I keep telling him that realizing one's limits and asking for guidance are traits that will serve him very well in the years to come.

 

Since you say that your son can produce assigned writing for outside profs and on-line instructors, my suspicion is that he will be fine in college. Perhaps some of what you are seeing with his resistance to your own assignments is a bit of "need to separate". My son did admit late in high school that he just couldn't take my assignments so seriously because I was "Mom". He knew that I loved him, and that I would still love him even if he argued or didn't do things as they were assigned. After I reflected on what he said, I decided that I was glad he felt that way, but I definitely saw the need for CC courses and his eventual transition to college away from home.

 

Hugs, Jane and to all who are currently helping their kiddos do college applications. It's such a bittersweet time, but you will survive!

 

Brenda

[Jane in NC]

 

Hugs, Jane and to all who are currently helping their kiddos do college applications. It's such a bittersweet time, but you will survive!

 

Brenda

 

Thank you, Brenda, for the virtual hug and the words of wisdom.

 

I do think that our children feel free to protest Mom assignments more than those from someone else. Perhaps this is a good thing, a statement that our relationship offers give and take? My son has commented on the constant griping frpm the gang of baseball players in one of CC classes. He has grown weary of their complaints and excuses, doesn't know why the prof tolerates these guys. Sometimes I think I should have a tape player running. If the dear lad could only hear himself...

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

I didn't read the thread, (I'm honest!) and my son is younger than yours. However, we've lived with the same problem for quite a while. Our solution was long distance ed. He would not give *me* better output, because he would rather just tell me in a few short sentences what he needed to say than write it down.

However, with long distance ed, he's got to *mail* it in. He can't just talk to his teacher. And he's got deadlines - he's currently working on his Latin test! yes!

 

The fact that he's dealing with a non-family member has significantly raised his output. It's still a tad too low, and he gets marked down, but he's progressing quite well. Maybe by next year, his output will be right where it should be.

[Chris in VA]

This is said gently and with total humility--

 

It's a discipline issue. I've learned an awful lot due to awful circumstance, about allowing children to deal with the consequences of their actions. Finding the "right" consequences is the hard part for me, but basically, I would caution against both making things too easy and accepting the "you're my Mom, not my prof, and I don't need to listen to you" argument.

 

My solution is, "This is your assignment. I have put lots of thought into it, and you need to do it. If you choose to turn in something that is not this assignment because you'd rather do that, expect an F, and your grade will go down in the course. The consequences of that are pretty serious. I am not going to argue, cajole, convince or nag. Do it or don't do it, your choice. I cannot control what you do, I can only present your material. The rest is up to you."

 

When we step back and allow them to feel the power of their own choices, we allow them to separate, take responsibility, and grow. Shielding children from consequences is a bad, bad idea, often meant to shield ourselves from the discomfort of watching our children struggle.

 

So, do your research on the best assignments, then assign them, and let your child do them.

[Nan in Mass]

But the problem is that he's right LOL. When he isn't, I usually am able to say, "I know you think you can do it, but I'm not sure, so you have to do it anyway." And he usually goes off and does it, or tries, and realizes what the problem is. Or he does it and I say, "Good! You were right!" That isn't the problem. (Well, ok - discipline is the problem sometimes. I usually know when it is, though.) The problem is finding assignments that aren't too easy or too hard. I don't know how much of this example you will understand, because you probably haven't read the book, but I'm going to try anyway. This was one where I think I was successful, but this is rare. The assignment was to write a book report about how a character changes. My son tends to just summarize things, so I thought I'd better pick a book where the change in the character was obvious - The Householder, which he was reading for geography. Sigh. That caused no end of problems. He hadn't liked the book in the first place, complaining that it was full of weak characters and nothing happened. I sent him off to make a list of everything that happened in the book. After a bit of discussion about how much detail he was supposed to go into, he dutifully skimmed the whole book and did it. He was not happy. He said it was going to take a long time. I thought he was probably right, but it is the sort of thing he has to learn to do quickly so I decided to take the time and do it. Then I wanted him to turn the list (about a page long) into an outline for his paper. He protested. I thought maybe he didn't know how to make an outline for a paper, but he said that wasn't the problem. He said the problem was that there was nothing to write about because the only things changes to the main character Prem were things that happen to everyone when they grow up. Hmm... He's right about that. It is about a newly married boy in India who would rather still be a student and have people taking care of him than be a grownup and have to take care of other people, like his pregnant wife. He wanted me to explain what I like about the book, but what I like isn't something that I thought would interest him. In fact, I was pretty sure he was going to miss that aspect altogether. I explained that I like how the wife Indu's story is told entirely through the filter of Prem. He said it had to be more than that and kept pushing me until I realized that the book, in its broadest sense, is about women's lives in India, and that is why Prem is so dreadfully, boringly ordinary. Which was all very interesting and enlightening for me, but didn't help my son write his paper. By then, I was wondering if my choice of book hadn't been a stupid one. I stuck with it anyway, because the last time my son had tried to write this sort of book report, he hadn't been able to do anything but write an introduction, a summary of events (leading to the change in character) and a conclusion that was just the intro restated. In the is book the change is super obvious and easy to define. And sure enough, he wrote a book report just like the last one. When he gave it to me, he said he knew it was only a summary with no meat but at least it was something to improve upon. And he is right. We can work with this. But what a hassle! And I don't think the hassle is entirely my son's fault. He is right. It is stupid to write this sort of paper about this sort of character. In the end, he is not going to have a piece of writing of which he can be proud. He is going to have a stupid, fake assignment. At least this fake assignment is probably (hopefully) going to teach him something. Usually, if I keep insisting, they flop completely. My son winds up convincing me that the question or assignment was a stupid one in the first place, or badly written, or something. Only very open things, like designing one's own science experiment or answering TWEM questions seem to be unstupid, and those are liable to fail for other reasons like lack of material or misjudged scope or whatever. Any suggestions?

-Nan

[Susan C.]

Hopefully my "easier" wasn't misinterpreted.... what I mean is more "on their level." I keep going too hard, Chalkdust math is one example (I have many more). What looks reasonable to us (who have finished our educations, probably homeschooled a few kids, and more importantly, have fully developed brains), is not reasonable to our kids. I looked at the CD Geometry book, my third pass at geometry, and I finally get it (well, sort of).... so who could expect my 16 y/o dd to get it on her first pass. And, I can blaze through a book, even a textbook, because I have 40+ years of life to take it in with. But to dd, the task is daunting. I remember having trouble concentrating when I was in high school, thinking all of my textbooks were senseless...that is why I lean toward whole books when I can. But, how do I know that I would have thought they were interesting with a teen brain?

 

Anyway, I think that the work not being too hard needs to be a consideration. That will be different for each kid. I can see taking one of the Great Books and taking our time getting through it (or part of it) for the experience, and if it goes well and doesn't take forever, then doing more. I purposely mix easier books with harder books, we usually do an easier one after a difficult one just to take a breather. It is easier to analyze an easier read that you are not struggling just to get it.

 

So, at least at our house, when I get work at the right level, and in reasonable amounts, then I can feel comfortable setting deadlines, and demanding a certain amount of work.

[Nan in Mass]

No, I understood. I heard the er... going faster through easier material... I have made a note to keep it in mind, too, because it is an important point, not one I have necessarily thought about. And it seems rather obvious, but the speed at which material can be done is an indication of the level of challenge. Speed is much more measurable than challengingness GRIN. Keeping that aspect in mind as well should help me to judge whether we are at the right place or not, as well as giving me confidence with deadlines. I don't give deadlines now because I am such a dreadful judge of how long anything is going to take.

-Nan

[Kareni]

I've been enjoying the thoughtful replies in this thread.

 

I think that what is really helping him here is that he is not afraid to go and ask for help ...

 

Being able to ask for help (recognizing that one needs help) and having the guts to go in search of it is a great trait for all our children!

 

 

... It is about a newly married boy in India who would rather still be a student and have people taking care of him than be a grownup and have to take care of other people ...

 

Which ironically almost certainly describes your son, Nan. Not the married part but the desire to have others take care of him. I admire your ability to give an assignment and then listen to your son and realize that the assignment was not the best it might have been. (I'm much too stubborn to do that!) It would be interesting to ask your son what he thinks would be a valid way of showing what he has learned.

 

Regards,

Kareni

[JennW in SoCal]

Suggestions? Not really, just more commiseration.

 

The only discipline issue with my son is one of self-discipline -- just buckling down and doing the work. He does it, but procrastinates. My other son is simply wired to argue, and he won't get any work done until he has gotten his complaints out of his system. It is exhausting, but after 18 years of it, I just plug my ears until he is done. And he is done with homeschooling now so I don't have to deal with it any more!!!

 

I DO find most pre-written assignments to be insipid. "Write a newspaper article about what is happening in the Myrmidon camp outside the walls of Troy". I made that one up, but that is the kind of assignment I personally hate, and my kids, who I've encouraged to think for themselves, balk when faced with those types of questions. They speak their mind, and I often agree with them. And while using a prepackaged curriculum seems a time saver, they usually miss the entire point of a WTM education. So much of what passes for literary analysis questions are simple summary questions, and most history text questions are about personal feelings on a situation -- there is nothing there about analyzing, taking a stand and logically arguing your position.

 

I think you are on the right track, Nan. Both our sons have been dragging their heels over books they didn't like, and both of us were sticking to our guns. Sometimes you have to write a good paper about something you just don't like. The semester moves on and we get to move on to better books. I've asked my kids sometimes to write a persuasive essay about why an assignment is useless, stupid, boring and a waste of their time, but they've never taken me up on it and stick with the given assignment instead!!

 

The best assignments have come up from our discussing books. Last year, when reading LOTR, my ds said he thought Sam was the true hero of the books so I had him write an essay defending that idea. It was a really good paper. I've been thinking that I need to stick to the basics when good ideas like that don't fall into our laps. Use the WEM more religiously, help my ds learn to develop a thesis statement using the very sound advice from The Lively Art of Writing.

 

I think for December I'm just going to have my ds keep a reading journal. The plan is to read The Tempest and to watch Forbidden Planet as it based upon the play! No major papers, just journaling facts, thoughts and favorite phrases.

[Nan in Mass]

In his more grownup moments, he would say that he is happy to do assignments that aren't stupid ones. I think he's written enough now that he isn't balking at the physical act of writing, especially if I let him type. He did a very good, thorough job of listing out the events of the book (on his laptop). He himself came up with the idea of recopying the history answers he gets wrong. He's not exactly happy about doing it in cursive, but he understands why I am making him do it that way. He willingly summarizes things. He truly doesn't understand how to get past that without stupidly stating the obvious. He sits down without complaint after a long day of gymnastics and school and does his math homework. He wants to get all his own meals. And he walked from Boston to DC and up through Switzerland last year. He's pretty independent. That is a major part of the problem. If he stopped thinking about the assignments and just blindly did them, we'd have fewer arguments LOL. I'm not sure he'd learn as much, but he would produce more written work. It is his participation in his education that causes the problems LOL. No, that isn't true. It is my inability to find unstupid things at the right level that is the problem.

-Nan

[Jenn in CA]

What about asking him to write whatever he wants, as long as it's not a summary, and he gets to convince you why his topic is unstupid? Use the WEM questions.

 

In the past I've made lists of possible essay topics, using grammar, logic and rhetoric questions from WEM, along with questions from other resources such as Cliff Notes, Invitation to the Classics, and so forth. Then they get to pick what they write.

 

If you could put it on him to come up with unstupid topics... rather than him putting it on you to prove it's not stupid... maybe that would help?

 

I like your example from The Householder. That arguably stupid topic could be turned into "In other novels, the main character changes but in this one he doesn't and this is why, and why the author did it that way."

 

Compare & contrast is a good unstupid and generic writing topic, I think. Compare the settings of two novels you've recently read, or characters from different books, or a favorite movie character and your book character.... the combinations are endless, and can be quite fun.

 

Something I've been doing that has helped is requiring daily journaling about their reading. Very simple, not expecting any profound insights. One requirement though, is a question about what they read. That has been helpful and I try to inspect the journal every day, and write a note about their question ("Good question!", or the answer if I know it). Just helps them to "think on paper" on a higher level.

 

Another thing I've found helpful is a daily page of writing. Not real formal, sometimes I require a topic, sometimes I don't. Can be "stream of consciousness" writing. But again, they will "think on paper" on a higher level if they're doing it more often and less formally. By formally I mean a well-supported thesis, with an outline. So less formally means, they make a point and ramble on about it. Low expectations, but doing it daily keeps the writing (and thinking?) side of the brain warmed up.

 

Last writing trick I recently learned about is the "quick write." When my son was reading Mark Twain short stories, I wrote a note in his journal: "Tomorrow instead of journaling, write for 5 minutes on what makes Mark Twain's stories funny." Sometimes it's more like bullet-points, and I'd like them to work towards producing a paragraph. But either way, I think it's a nice change and again, helpful for just getting some thoughts on paper.

 

Your son sounds like a great guy.

[Nan in Mass]

It isn't just papers for literature. Usually, by the time we've been through TWEM questions, my son has thought of something that he can write about. It isn't always easy to turn his idea into a paper, but I usually help with that part (and mess it up half the time sigh). For instance, for Gilgamesh, he decided to write about why the Gods/God needs people, or bothers about them. He's found a little information, but not much. It probably is enough to try to write a few paragraphs. The book report was for writing. My problem is output in everything but math. (We fought the battle of showing your work at the beginning of NEM, a few years ago.) Any sort of questions that he has to answer are a problem. Any sort of reports or writing. Even oral questions. Somehow, I have to gradually get him to write more volume at a higher level in more detail and depth. Or something. I guess I don't even have a reasonable idea what that should look like.

-Nan

[Susan C.]

Here is something to think about. My son is an English major. I asked him how many papers he did this semester. He is taking American Lit. and Great Books, they are 200 level. The Am. Lit class, 2 papers the whole semester, Great Books, 4 papers, plus another paper combining the other 4 for the final. I asked what they did for all of the other books he read, he said just easy quizzes so the teacher can know they read the books, and then they discussed the books in class. So......not a paper for every book!!!

[Nan in Mass]

That's interesting. And nice to know. We do quite a lot of books with no papers. Perhaps I shouldn't worry so much about it. Perhaps the number of papers depends on the sort of papers.

[Jane in NC]

That's interesting. And nice to know. We do quite a lot of books with no papers. Perhaps I shouldn't worry so much about it. Perhaps the number of papers depends on the sort of papers.

 

Yes to that last sentence. Students in high school need to learn to think, research, refine, document. If students are constantly regurgitating, are they learning larger skills? I want to suggest the same for opinions. Students should be able to express themselves, but then give reasons why they don't like a character, why the book is boring, why a system of rules that seems perfectly logical to someone (say some sort of regulation) is illogical to them. I think that several of us feel that pat questions/pat answers in some text books are a waste of time. Our students certainly feel that way. So if pat questions/pat answers are a waste, we have to find the right discussion to have with our students to help them develop analytic skills. We have to help our students see beyond their own backyards and into the wide world which their textbooks may or may not do.

 

I think that there are times when our students must write answers to questions that they feel are not interesting. Perhaps the Renaissance or Modern Art is not of interest to everyone. That does not mean they should not be studied. We sometimes dip our toes in a subject, sometimes dive in. This comes back to the flexibility that we as homeschoolers have.

 

Helping our students develop their writing voice is hard. I don't think that it is just a matter of discipline or exposure to good books or even a certain writing curriculum that gives our students the ability to express themselves well. I want to believe that expression begins with dinner table conversations, but my theory has not turned my son into an excellent writer.

 

Sigh...

[ValRN]

increasing output? improving study habits? :bigear:

[Jenn in CA]

Helping our students develop their writing voice is hard. I don't think that it is just a matter of discipline or exposure to good books or even a certain writing curriculum that gives our students the ability to express themselves well. I want to believe that expression begins with dinner table conversations, but my theory has not turned my son into an excellent writer.

 

 

 

...And how many of us were excellent writers when we graduated from high school, anyway? I mean, I could write well enough to get A's in high school, but college was another story. I struggled but really became a better writer, and by the end could crank out the papers with my eyes closed.

 

In other words, I think putting them on the path to good writing is an accomplishment in itself, even if they struggle and don't like it and could be better.

[FlockOfSillies]

OK, I'm only saying this because I went to the seminar and bought the curriculum three years before I'll need it, but you might want to consider The Lost Tools of Writing.

[Nan in Mass]

Jenn, I keep thinking about your alternative Householder topic from a few posts up. My son can write that sort of paper, or at least at what I think is a reasonable level for a non-English-oriented boy. In that case, he would be writing about something that isn't obvious, so he wouldn't have as much trouble. And if you ask him to summarize or to write a report about something, provided you can explain the scope, he doesn't do too badly. What he can't do is write papers like the one I asked him to, or those in-theory-easy compare and contrast papers. And getting him to keep a journal is very difficult indeed. Believe me, I've tried. When he was walking in Switzerland and when he walked to DC he was supposed to keep a journal. He actually managed to do it, to our great amazement, since his older brother managed to do it only on his last two trips and then only sporadically. (To their credit, they are extremely busy until a rather late bedtime and tired from walking in the weather all day and getting up with the sun for prayers. Finding time to write isn't easy.) My youngest developped his own system where he wrote a few phrases and then put a smily or frowny face next to them. Better than nothing, but not exactly great descriptions of places he's been or events in which he's participated. Sigh. Getting him to answer anything other than the simplest textbook questions is hard, too. It seems as though he is able to write if it is for a real purpose (something he has figured out and nobody else knows) at a fairly low level for his age but not impossibly so, but if it is for unreal school-type purposes, he can't. And I can't figure out how to help him, other than to try to find material which has questions at the right level, in which case the input seems to be too low. Any ideas would be welcome.

-Nan