So sad...

[mom31257]

My dh teaches social studies in our local high school. Yesterday, 21 out of 23 9th graders DID NOT know all the continents and oceans. Yes, you read that correctly! What is going on in the world?

[mom26]

My dh teaches social studies in our local high school. Yesterday, 21 out of 23 9th graders DID NOT know all the continents and oceans. Yes, you read that correctly! What is going on in the world?

 

Thank goodness for Geography Songs...sad to say I was not well versed in geography UNTIL I became a homeschool mom!! I specifically coordinated a geography coop using Geography Songs as one of the components so that my kids would not be geographically illiterate like their mom used to be!

 

Blessings,

k

[blessedmom3]

Incredible ! In Europe they don't let you progress in High school without basic general culture .

[mycalling]

Wow.:001_huh: I had to read this 3 times before it sunk in. Seriously!?!? Wow, again.

[kalanamak]

My dh teaches social studies in our local high school. Yesterday, 21 out of 23 9th graders DID NOT know all the continents and oceans. Yes, you read that correctly! What is going on in the world?

 

Entertainment of the electronic variety. My son can parrot me: "boob tube" "electronic nipple" "rots your brain" "closest living approximation to death known to man" "craved by mouth-breathers" "only fit for idiots".

 

And he knew his oceans and continents at 4, but it isn't a fair sample: his GF was a professor of geography.:)

Edited November 22, 2009 by kalanamak
spelling, arg

[Perry]

My dd had a fraction assessment in her geometry class last week. It was a 32 question test over the 4 basic operations. An example: 3/5 +2/5=? This is a middle school geometry class, so these are the highest achieving kids in the school. Most of them are in the talented and gifted program.

 

My dd found it very simple and finished it in 7 minutes. None of the other kids finished in the allotted 30 minutes, and they all found it very difficult.

 

What's going on in the world is that the kids aren't being taught what they need to know.

 

(We used Singapore through 6B, then Chalkdust Prealgebra and Foerster's Algebra 1)

[Dawn in OH]

My dh teaches social studies in our local high school. Yesterday, 21 out of 23 9th graders DID NOT know all the continents and oceans. Yes, you read that correctly! What is going on in the world?

 

Seriously? Wow. I taught my children that at then end of what would be First Grade, last year. I found a cute little website game that helped them learn it.

[Daisy]

What's going on in the world is that the kids aren't being taught what they need to know.

 

Agreed. My husband's school superintendent stated their goal is just to expose children to concepts and not teach to mastery.

 

My husband's first graders know a ton of stuff. It's just all worthless bits of movie trivia.

[creekland]

I could see any of these examples (geography, math) happening at the high school where I work.

 

We recently had 138 seniors retaking a state science exam as they couldn't even score 'basic' on it. I'm not sure of the exact numbers in the senior class, but I'm guessing it has around 250 in it - with many of the poorer students having already dropped out.

 

If you had our kids do fractions without a calculator most - if not all - wouldn't even try.

[SonshineLearner]

 

If you had our kids do fractions without a calculator most - if not all - wouldn't even try.

 

 

Oops... guess that shows you what I know... I wouldn't think to pick up a calculator for fractions... Wouldn't that take the fun out of figuring the problem out?

 

I was thinking over on the "how to fix PS" if we all went through the core knowledge series.... Parents and kids would learn SO much. I'd love to see if "assigned Family Time reading..."

Carrie

[creekland]

Oops... guess that shows you what I know... I wouldn't think to pick up a calculator for fractions... Wouldn't that take the fun out of figuring the problem out?

 

I was thinking over on the "how to fix PS" if we all went through the core knowledge series.... Parents and kids would learn SO much. I'd love to see if "assigned Family Time reading..."

Carrie

 

When I pulled my two youngest from ps, the first thing I had to teach them were fractions and multiplication facts. They had finished 6th and 4th grades. My oldest did ok. He had finished 8th. In between they introduced the calculator for younger grades. Now they are teaching 1st graders how to use them.

 

When our ps switched to Everyday Math and calculators it was the final straw for us and my boys came home (though we gave Everyday Math a year to test it out).

 

My oldest just scored in the 97th percentile on the math portion of the ACT... My middle son tends to be better at math than my oldest... but we'd have never seen testing scores like those had I let mine stay in for high school.

 

When I work at the high school I am really saddened... most kids can't even tell me what -2 squared is... (they say -4 since that's what their calculator tells them - they forget to use parentheses).

 

We're creating machine operators - not knowledgable young adults who can use machines as tools.

[hsbaby]

I think part of the problem is that many ps emphasize temporary memorization over understanding. For example, I memorized all of the state capitals in 5th grade and won a special lunch out with our teacher. However, a year later (and to this day) I couldn't remember half of them. The focus was so heavy on memorization, as it often is for tests in ps, that a true, solid understanding is never developed. I was able to spew out a lot of "facts" throughout my school years, but retained very little and don't feel I ever really grasped the material beyond the temporary memorization of names and dates. The unclear point I am attempting to make, is that these kids MAY have been able to name all of their geography facts in elementary school but the schools failed to maintain and expand their knowledge. Am I making sense? I don't know, I think I had to much coffee and am on a caffeine high:tongue_smilie:

[Jeannie in NJ]

dd is in public school for the first time (9th grade) and the first test in history was to correctly label all 50 states, not even the capitals, just the states. Dd has been able to label states and capitols since about 3rd. Of course , it was an easy 100 for her.

[kindermommy]

I think part of the problem is that many ps emphasize temporary memorization over understanding. For example, I memorized all of the state capitals in 5th grade and won a special lunch out with our teacher. However, a year later (and to this day) I couldn't remember half of them. The focus was so heavy on memorization, as it often is for tests in ps, that a true, solid understanding is never developed. I was able to spew out a lot of "facts" throughout my school years, but retained very little and don't feel I ever really grasped the material beyond the temporary memorization of names and dates. The unclear point I am attempting to make, is that these kids MAY have been able to name all of their geography facts in elementary school but the schools failed to maintain and expand their knowledge. Am I making sense? I don't know, I think I had to much coffee and am on a caffeine high:tongue_smilie:

 

Made perfect sense to me - and I don't drink coffee ;) I was also the class champ in 5th grade when it came to labeling all the states and capitols.

 

I agree with all you said - although I think "memory work" is great exercise for the brain, if knowing all the states and their capitals is something someone thinks is useful and important, it must be reinforced continually.

[Dana]

I was appalled when my college students (cc and developmental courses, but still...) didn't know how many states there were in the US. At the lower levels, it was generally over half the class that didn't know. I got answers as high as 104. The most common was 52. Pretty tragic.

[WTMCassandra]

Entertainment of the electronic variety. My son can parrot me: "boob tube" "electronic nipple" "rots your brain" "closes living approximation to death known to man" "craved by mouth-breathers" "only fit for idiots".

 

And he knew his oceans and continents at 4, but it isn't a fair sample: his GF was a professor of geography.:)

 

:lol::lol::lol:

[mommy&herboys]

Ms. South Carolina's opinion on the subject:

 

http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1772684

[mom2abcd]

Do you mean only 9% of the kids got a 100%? That's not so bad. Or are you saying 91% of the kids got an F on the test?

[mom31257]

This was not for a grade so I can't give you a percentage. During a short study skill class he had them label the continents and oceans. All but 2 had to get their books out in order to complete it.

[tricia]

Or you might ask, What is going on in the schools? Or not going on in the schools for choice of better words.

[WiseOwlKnits]

I'm not surprised. As another adult told me yesterday - "My IQ would drop 100 points if it wasn't for Google." Schools now focus more on HOW to find the information than on LEARNING the information. After all, why know the continents when you can Google it and know the answer in a few seconds. Grrr.

[Jorsay]

My dh teaches social studies in our local high school. Yesterday, 21 out of 23 9th graders DID NOT know all the continents and oceans. Yes, you read that correctly! What is going on in the world?

 

I don't think that's a big deal.

 

I am not attacking anyone, but I bet most people on this site would not wager a large sum of money that they could name ALL the oceans and ALL the continents correctly. Surely some of you know them with a high degree of confidence (especially if you have just been teaching your kids) but I would bet that most of you would not be confident enough to risk a large sum of money. I am highly educated and I looked on a globe just to be certain that I wasn't missing one and that I didn't mistake a sea for an ocean. How many would call Oceania, Australia? Is that still correct? I bet many of you will have to google to be certain.

 

I think public schools are terrible, but I don't expect the kids to be jeopardy experts. If they had a class in it recently, they should know it cold, but if it was a pop quiz out of the blue, then 2 out of 23 getting all of them correct isn't that bad for 15 year olds that really don't care about this stuff anyway.

[Erica in PA]

I don't think that's a big deal.

 

I am not attacking anyone, but I bet most people on this site would not wager a large sum of money that they could name ALL the oceans and ALL the continents correctly. Surely some of you know them with a high degree of confidence (especially if you have just been teaching your kids) but I would bet that most of you would not be confident enough to risk a large sum of money. I am highly educated and I looked on a globe just to be certain that I wasn't missing one and that I didn't mistake a sea for an ocean. How many would call Oceania, Australia? Is that still correct? I bet many of you will have to google to be certain.

 

I think public schools are terrible, but I don't expect the kids to be jeopardy experts. If they had a class in it recently, they should know it cold, but if it was a pop quiz out of the blue, then 2 out of 23 getting all of them correct isn't that bad for 15 year olds that really don't care about this stuff anyway.

 

I agree. I'll admit I wouldn't be sure of all the oceans, and if I were allowed to use a book to double check, even now, I would!

[creekland]

I don't think that's a big deal.

 

I am not attacking anyone, but I bet most people on this site would not wager a large sum of money that they could name ALL the oceans and ALL the continents correctly. Surely some of you know them with a high degree of confidence (especially if you have just been teaching your kids) but I would bet that most of you would not be confident enough to risk a large sum of money. I am highly educated and I looked on a globe just to be certain that I wasn't missing one and that I didn't mistake a sea for an ocean. How many would call Oceania, Australia? Is that still correct? I bet many of you will have to google to be certain.

 

I think public schools are terrible, but I don't expect the kids to be jeopardy experts. If they had a class in it recently, they should know it cold, but if it was a pop quiz out of the blue, then 2 out of 23 getting all of them correct isn't that bad for 15 year olds that really don't care about this stuff anyway.

 

Maybe I'm out of the loop, but I can't imagine any reasonably educated adult missing the oceans and continents. Granted, because we were taught there were 4 oceans in school, people might miss the Southern Ocean - and some might call the one continent, Australia, instead of Oceania, but aside from those two changes since we were in school, absolutely none of my peers or friend group with have difficulties with this activity - and most do NOT teach their own children.

 

If you move on to states/capitals and countries, then there would be problems from many, but not with oceans and continents.

[Peela]

My dh teaches social studies in our local high school. Yesterday, 21 out of 23 9th graders DID NOT know all the continents and oceans. Yes, you read that correctly! What is going on in the world?

 

I probably couldn't name them off the top of my head either, and neither could my kids. We would get most, but might get stuck on a couple. Not that we dont know them or that we are not familiar with the globe...our memories just dont necessarily hold the information so that it is immediately accessible when put on the spot :)

I get the point that people are not so well educated...but still, I dont consider being well educated as being able to rattle off such things when asked. It is far deeper than that. Some people are good at memorising- so what.

[Garga]

Before I taught the continents/oceans to my kids last year, I wasn't able to name them. I probably could have done the continents, but certainly not the oceans.

 

But I managed to be very good at my job before I quit to stay home with the kids. In fact, I was the only one in the department that was always guaranteed the highest yearly increase because I was outstanding at my job. The guy behind me was somewhat relieved when I quit, I think, because now he would be the top-dog and get the best increases. My job just didn't happen to involve knowing the continents and oceans. I was a corporate trainer.

 

While I do feel it's important to know these things, at the same time, information like that isn't crucial to surviving and thriving in this world and being a contributor to the people around you.

 

And I also agree that saying, "Gee, even my 1st grader knows that!" doesn't mean very much if you never revisit the information again and wait 8 years to ask them to tell you the continents/oceans. They'll forget unless you review it, or somehow incorporate it into your lessons (history or somewhere.)

 

I'm sure that at some point I was taught the continents/oceans, but just never used the info and somewhere over the 20 years between graduating high school and now, I forgot it. (Until I taught my own kids.)

 

After saying all this, I am a pretty rigorous classical education homeschooler. I feel there's an intrinsic value in being knowledgeable about the world around you: history, the great authors, etc. But at the same time, if someone is an adult and doesn't know some of these things, I don't think it's the end of the world.

[Jumping In Puddles]

I probably couldn't name them off the top of my head either, and neither could my kids. We would get most, but might get stuck on a couple. Not that we dont know them or that we are not familiar with the globe...our memories just dont necessarily hold the information so that it is immediately accessible when put on the spot :)

I get the point that people are not so well educated...but still, I dont consider being well educated as being able to rattle off such things when asked. It is far deeper than that. Some people are good at memorising- so what.

 

I really understand what you are saying but I think you and your kids may be able to say the continents and oceans. Are you thinking of including the seas and countries? And if you ask one of your kids right now, and they say "Australia" instead of "Oceana", I wouldn't say they don't know that... it is still the same place but recently changed names.

 

There are only 5 oceans: Atlantic, Pacific, Indian, Arctic, Southern. It wouldn't be wrong to leave off Southern Ocean.

 

There are many seas and I doubt I would be able to name half of them.

 

The Continents: Africa, North America, South America, Europe, Asia, Australia, Antartica.

 

If you look at a map, would you be able to label those continents and oceans?

 

I think memorizing all the rivers in Africa would be a waste of time or knowing all the state capitols (why?) is a waste but knowing the continents and oceans is easy so even if someone were to commit them to memory, it wouldn't take a high school student but 5 minutes to study them.

[pqr]

I don't think that's a big deal.

 

I am not attacking anyone, but I bet most people on this site would not wager a large sum of money that they could name ALL the oceans and ALL the continents correctly. Surely some of you know them with a high degree of confidence (especially if you have just been teaching your kids) but I would bet that most of you would not be confident enough to risk a large sum of money. I am highly educated and I looked on a globe just to be certain that I wasn't missing one and that I didn't mistake a sea for an ocean. How many would call Oceania, Australia? Is that still correct? I bet many of you will have to google to be certain.

 

I think public schools are terrible, but I don't expect the kids to be jeopardy experts. If they had a class in it recently, they should know it cold, but if it was a pop quiz out of the blue, then 2 out of 23 getting all of them correct isn't that bad for 15 year olds that really don't care about this stuff anyway.

 

We see things in a different light. 2 out of 23 is a disgrace, there is no other way of putting it.

 

As to wagering "a large sum of money that they could name ALL the oceans and ALL the continents correctly"....I would bet the house and the bank account and would have won. When I asked my parents, my siblings and other hsing friends they all agreed that they too would bet all their assets and won.

 

Some things are simply inexcusable 2 out of 23 fits that definition.

[Jumping In Puddles]

Before I taught the continents/oceans to my kids last year, I wasn't able to name them. I probably could have done the continents, but certainly not the oceans.

\

 

I just replied to Peela's post, but you really don't think you could have labeled 4 oceans?

 

Atlantic, Pacific, Indian, Arctic (Southern, but you wouldn't know that one unless you studied recently and according to geographers it is not wrong to leave off the Southern Ocean)

[creekland]

We see things in a different light. 2 out of 23 is a disgrace, there is no other way of putting it.

 

As to wagering "a large sum of money that they could name ALL the oceans and ALL the continents correctly"....I would bet the house and the bank account and would have won. When I asked my parents, my siblings and other hsing friends they all agreed that they too would bet all their assets and won.

 

Some things are simply inexcusable 2 out of 23 fits that definition.

 

:iagree: I'm with you on this one. I wish we could have had that wager. :)

[Danestress]

I think our ocean designations are arbitrary. The Atlantic and Pacific are one big ocean. Any one looking at a globe can see that. Why is the Antarctic considered an Ocean? It looks to me like it's all part of the above ocean or oceans.

 

As a student I would be fed a "definition" of what a continent is, and then the designation of continents would never fit the bill. North and South America are part of one land mass. Africa is connected to Asia. There is nothing even resembling a separation between Europe and Asia anyway, so in a way, Europe, Asia and Africa are all connected. I never had a teacher who could explain this to me that made sense in terms of geography, though of course there are historical and social reasons why we think of Europe and Asia as different.

 

I love geography, but I have had a hard time teaching my children continents and oceans because I think that we live in "continent and ocean" limbo - unable to create a system that firmly defines and identifies these land forms. I present to my children the various views that geographers have, and how what counts as a continent is different in different parts of the world and no one is "right." They probably would fail this test, but I guarantee they would be able to identify the issues and the different ways you COULD classify! Poor kids.

[Jumping In Puddles]

I present to my children the various views that geographers have, and how what counts as a continent is different in different parts of the world and no one is "right." They probably would fail this test, but I guarantee they would be able to identify the issues and the different ways you COULD classify! Poor kids.

 

I wonder if your kids really would fail the test, because obviously they are studying geography and they can identify issues and know more than one way to classify (yay!) but you don't think that they could look at a map and name the four names that we give to separate parts of the ocean?

 

Of all the things kids have to remember, it seems that remembering 7 continents and 4 oceans (or 5) is so simple, I'm surprised it is an issue. :confused:

[teachermom2834]

if the teacher said we could get out our books I would have done that just to be sure. I'm just like that.

 

I wasn't there so I obviously don't know the details but I bet there were at least a couple more of those students that could have gotten it without the book but went ahead and got it out to check- just to be absolutely certain.

 

Yeah, I'm a little OCD.

 

Marie

[hornblower]

For anyone else who is not entirely sure their kids know this, you can print out a free map from here.

http://www.worldatlas.com/webimage/testmaps/maps.htm

 

Guess what I'll be doing on Monday :D

 

These threads always make me hyperventilate. Yeah, some things you do need to know but the target is always moving and different people insist you know different things......And some of us are not so good at jeopardy type things. I'm more of a big picture person.

 

I did know the continents & oceans but I'm not sure about the kids. But I am sure they know who discovered King Tut's tomb, who his financial backer was, and when it happened. :D So there.

[Jorsay]

Maybe I'm out of the loop, but I can't imagine any reasonably educated adult missing the oceans and continents. Granted, because we were taught there were 4 oceans in school, people might miss the Southern Ocean - and some might call the one continent, Australia, instead of Oceania, but aside from those two changes since we were in school, absolutely none of my peers or friend group with have difficulties with this activity - and most do NOT teach their own children.

 

If you move on to states/capitals and countries, then there would be problems from many, but not with oceans and continents.

 

I would say you have highly educated friends then, that happen to be highly confident in their geography. Not that I would be surprised that some would know, but that all, or even most would know and with certainty, I would be very surprised.

 

I graduated from Columbia University and I would not have bet a substantial amount of money that I would get all the oceans. The fact that there are four oceans is not knowledge that I walk around with. I would have to think about it and count them. To clarify, and without looking it up, I assume that you are talking about Pacific, Indian, Atlantic, and Arctic. To what Southen Ocean are you referring. The Arctic, as you know, is in the north. Are you talking about Southern Atlantic and Southern Pacific? If so, there are two. Why did you refer to them as one? If you were not refering to them, then I obviously don't know my oceans. Yet, I would think that most would consider me well educated.

 

I think very few of my friends would know. I am nearly certain that most of my employees wouldn't know. Why would they? Why would anybody, unless they happened to have a special interest in that sort of thing or unless they learned it recently?

 

Now, as for a 14 or 15 year old high school kid, I am impressed that 9 percent had the aplomb not to look it up.

[Mom2GirlsTX]

Entertainment of the electronic variety. My son can parrot me: "boob tube" "electronic nipple" "rots your brain" "closest living approximation to death known to man" "craved by mouth-breathers" "only fit for idiots".

 

And he knew his oceans and continents at 4, but it isn't a fair sample: his GF was a professor of geography.:)

:iagree:

 

I am probably much older than you, but I'm mid 40's and I was only allowed very limited TV. My father hated television, he called it "the evil box". My mother loved tv, she could veg for hours, but him, he read books, studied multiple languages and kept his brain active. My mom got alzheimers by age 65 ..

 

I agree with you that tv, well, it just ruins alot of brains. I think my dad would have liked you :001_smile:

[Jorsay]

We see things in a different light. 2 out of 23 is a disgrace, there is no other way of putting it.

 

As to wagering "a large sum of money that they could name ALL the oceans and ALL the continents correctly"....I would bet the house and the bank account and would have won. When I asked my parents, my siblings and other hsing friends they all agreed that they too would bet all their assets and won.

 

Some things are simply inexcusable 2 out of 23 fits that definition.

 

I guess I should be disgraced then, because I never heard of a Southern Ocean. Now I am not a genius, but I am a Columbia Grad on the Dean's list, a published author in the field of education, 99.9% on several of the graduate standardized exams, 97% percent on wordsmart, have taught at the graduate level, and a self-made millionaire, but perhaps I am just a disgrace becuase I wasn't certain about all my oceans. Imagine, after 50 years of life it's all come down to this. I am a disgrace because I didn't know my oceans.

 

And you know what else, I still don't know where the Southern Ocean is, and, even worse, I am not going to look it up. So I will continue to be a disgrace. And don't spoil it and tell me.

 

BTW, I also don't know what the state bird of my native state is.

[Renai]

I think part of the problem is that many ps emphasize temporary memorization over understanding. For example, I memorized all of the state capitals in 5th grade and won a special lunch out with our teacher. However, a year later (and to this day) I couldn't remember half of them. The focus was so heavy on memorization, as it often is for tests in ps, that a true, solid understanding is never developed. I was able to spew out a lot of "facts" throughout my school years, but retained very little and don't feel I ever really grasped the material beyond the temporary memorization of names and dates. The unclear point I am attempting to make, is that these kids MAY have been able to name all of their geography facts in elementary school but the schools failed to maintain and expand their knowledge. Am I making sense? I don't know, I think I had to much coffee and am on a caffeine high:tongue_smilie:

 

The big focus on "drill and kill" in prior years is one of the main reasons schools are accepting reform math. They want children to "understand", not just have facts "drilled down their throats." Unfortunately, it's gone so far in the opposite the direction, the students aren't understanding or getting basic math facts down. :001_huh:

 

But, that's neither here nor there in this discussion about geography :D.

[Jorsay]

 

BTW, I also don't know what the state bird of my native state is.

 

My 10 yo son just reminded me what the state bird was and I actually did know it, so I stand corrected. That kind of knowledge should really take me places in life, don't you think?

 

I still can't find a Southern Ocean on my globe.

[Jorsay]

After thinking about it, if I were giving a job interview and I asked the applicant to name all the oceans and all the continents, and he/she had a book handy to verify his/her answer, and then didn't use the book, I would probably consider him/her blithe and I would count it against him/her.

[Snickerdoodle]

For anyone else who is not entirely sure their kids know this, you can print out a free map from here.

http://www.worldatlas.com/webimage/testmaps/maps.htm

 

 

 

 

Thanks for this!

[IsabelC]

I still can't find a Southern Ocean on my globe.

Don't look too closely, it might be marked! :lol:

 

 

Re the OP, I would imagine that what is going on, is that nobody happened to teach those kids the names of continents and oceans, and they didn't think to learn them.

 

I'm still not sure what all this tells us about what and how to teach our children? I could easily spend a short lesson now teaching this bit of knowledge to my child. Or, as somebody pointed out, he could easily learn it in a few minutes later on. So, how important is it for kids to learn lists of information?

 

If you believe that it is imperative that they know the continents, what about countries? There are 200 or so countries, so they take a bit longer to memorize. What about the states of countries other than your own? I learnt the US states, but how many of you know the states and territories of Australia (and would you ever need to know them in any case? Probably not)? Or Germany? Quick - do you know the capital of each African nation? At what point do lists of information go from being essential general knowledge to being a special interest, or even a way of showing off / justifying home schooling (Oh look, my home educated child knows the elevation of every south facing peak with more than 3 vowels in its name! And she can sing them backwards to the melody of the Tunisian national anthem! What can your child do?)?

 

I'm still thinking this through, but I suspect it's going to depend on my kids and how much they enjoy learning to recite things. If they turn out to be 'typical' grammar stage children then I can think of lots of useful stuff for them to memorize, but if every such list is a huge struggle, I'd be content to do minimal memory work and teach them how to use an atlas.

 

However, having said that, I also think it's wise to beware of the false dichotomy of knowledge vs understanding. So many people (unschooling friends included) seem to act as though they believe that either your child is a bright creative spirit with a thirst for wisdom, or she is a bored drone who spends all day rote learning meaningless snippets of data. I try to remember that you can drill basic facts and still leave plenty of room for self directed learning and development of understanding.

Edited November 23, 2009 by Hotdrink

[kalanamak]

:iagree:

 

I am probably much older than you, but I'm mid 40's and I was only allowed very limited TV.

 

You youngster you. I have having my first baby in my mid-40's.:)

[Jumping In Puddles]

I\

 

I graduated from Columbia University and I would not have bet a substantial amount of money that I would get all the oceans. The fact that there are four oceans is not knowledge that I walk around with. I would have to think about it and count them. To clarify, and without looking it up, I assume that you are talking about Pacific, Indian, Atlantic, and Arctic. To what Southen Ocean are you referring. The Arctic, as you know, is in the north. Are you talking about Southern Atlantic and Southern Pacific? If so, there are two. Why did you refer to them as one? If you were not refering to them, then I obviously don't know my oceans. Yet, I would think that most would consider me well educated.

 

I think very few of my friends would know. I am nearly certain that most of my employees wouldn't know. Why would they? Why would anybody, unless they happened to have a special interest in that sort of thing or unless they learned it recently?

 

 

See, you did know the oceans! I have been trying to make that point, there are only 4 (or 5) and if you have ever taken an introductory geography class, it is kind of hard to forget. Same with the continents. I wouldn't really get stuck on the Southern Ocean. Unless you have studied geography recently, how would you know? I do think there is some merit in learning the Continents, even if it were so you know that "Europe" or "Africa" or "Asia" are not countries! I think this really needs to be and actually is common knowledge! I don't think you, your employees or anyone else has to think of them to name them off the top of their head for a pop quiz but I do think we should teach the Continents, what countries are on those continents (to familiarity - I'm sure I can not name 50% of countries on each continent) and where about in the world they are.

 

I absolutely would say you are more educated than I am by any standard. I did not attend an Ivy League and did not make the Dean's list and I think it is silly to say that someone is ignorant because they cannot name the Continents. But don't you think it is fair to say that from a basic geography course, it is reasonable to learn 4 or 5 oceans and 7 continents? Maybe also identify certain areas of the map that are politically or financially important?

 

I guess I should be disgraced then, because I never heard of a Southern Ocean. Now I am not a genius, but I am a Columbia Grad on the Dean's list, a published author in the field of education, 99.9% on several of the graduate standardized exams, 97% percent on wordsmart, have taught at the graduate level, and a self-made millionaire, but perhaps I am just a disgrace becuase I wasn't certain about all my oceans. Imagine, after 50 years of life it's all come down to this. I am a disgrace because I didn't know my oceans.

 

And you know what else, I still don't know where the Southern Ocean is, and, even worse, I am not going to look it up. So I will continue to be a disgrace. And don't spoil it and tell me.

 

BTW, I also don't know what the state bird of my native state is.

 

But you did know the Oceans! You got every one of them, and do you know that the Southern Ocean is just an extension of the other Oceans (except the Arctic) but geographers wanted to name it a separate ocean because the southern parts of the Atlantic/Pacific/Indian all act like one ocean - yet separate from the northern parts of the ocean - and it has a unique current that it makes sense to talk about that part of the oceans as one ocean. Not all geographers agree! So maybe you are surprised that you knew all the Oceans because you consider it trivia but I'm not surprised that you knew! I think most people who have taken a geography course will remember. The problem, IMHO, is that most people do not take geography and do not care about geography so we have those educated and intelligent people who don't know and don't care. I wouldn't say anyone is a disgrace if they don't know it, though. :)

[gardening momma]

These threads always make me hyperventilate. Yeah, some things you do need to know but the target is always moving and different people insist you know different things...

Amen. :svengo: I hadn't heard of the Southern Ocean or Oceana until this thread (except for Oceana County, MI, where I lived for several years!).

[gardening momma]

See, you did know the oceans! I have been trying to make that point, there are only 4 (or 5) and if you have ever taken an introductory geography class, it is kind of hard to forget. Same with the continents. I wouldn't really get stuck on the Southern Ocean. Unless you have studied geography recently, how would you know? I do think there is some merit in learning the Continents, even if it were so you know that "Europe" or "Africa" or "Asia" are not countries! I think this really needs to be and actually is common knowledge! I don't think you, your employees or anyone else has to think of them to name them off the top of their head for a pop quiz but I do think we should teach the Continents, what countries are on those continents (to familiarity - I'm sure I can not name 50% of countries on each continent) and where about in the world they are.

...

But you did know the Oceans! You got every one of them, and do you know that the Southern Ocean is just an extension of the other Oceans (except the Arctic) but geographers wanted to name it a separate ocean because the southern parts of the Atlantic/Pacific/Indian all act like one ocean - yet separate from the northern parts of the ocean - and it has a unique current that it makes sense to talk about that part of the oceans as one ocean. Not all geographers agree! So maybe you are surprised that you knew all the Oceans because you consider it trivia but I'm not surprised that you knew! I think most people who have taken a geography course will remember. The problem, IMHO, is that most people do not take geography and do not care about geography so we have those educated and intelligent people who don't know and don't care. I wouldn't say anyone is a disgrace if they don't know it, though. :)

Well said. I would have been able to label the 7 continents and 4 oceans (5 now!!) correctly, but I'll admit I would probably leave one or more until the end (process of elimination--so it must go here!).

[creekland]

I would say you have highly educated friends then, that happen to be highly confident in their geography. Not that I would be surprised that some would know, but that all, or even most would know and with certainty, I would be very surprised.

 

I graduated from Columbia University and I would not have bet a substantial amount of money that I would get all the oceans. The fact that there are four oceans is not knowledge that I walk around with. I would have to think about it and count them. To clarify, and without looking it up, I assume that you are talking about Pacific, Indian, Atlantic, and Arctic. To what Southen Ocean are you referring. The Arctic, as you know, is in the north. Are you talking about Southern Atlantic and Southern Pacific? If so, there are two. Why did you refer to them as one? If you were not refering to them, then I obviously don't know my oceans. Yet, I would think that most would consider me well educated.

 

I think very few of my friends would know. I am nearly certain that most of my employees wouldn't know. Why would they? Why would anybody, unless they happened to have a special interest in that sort of thing or unless they learned it recently?

 

Now, as for a 14 or 15 year old high school kid, I am impressed that 9 percent had the aplomb not to look it up.

 

I find it amusing that you think I have highly educated friends... we live in a rural area and just yesterday I was talking with hubby telling him I wish we had more people in our area in our 'educational level' group. Not many around here have even graduated from college. :)

 

And, has already been explained, the Southern Ocean is a new 'creation' named due to the currents, etc., so not something anyone would know unless they recently learned it. To be so dead set in your ways to not be the least curious about it enough to look it up is sad, but, to each our own.

 

Otherwise, I still say knowing the oceans (at least 4) and continents (7) are like knowing the ABC's or simple math facts. Once learned I can't imagine how anyone could forget them even if they didn't use them ever again. Imagine having someone tell you you've won a trip to Europe and then having to figure out where you're going! Ditto for Asia, South America, Africa, etc.

 

We, too, own a business (Civil Engineering). I checked. Every single one of our employees knew (allowing for 4 oceans and Australia). They were surprised to hear that any adult wouldn't know. However, they did bring up episodes of Leno, etc. I guess they do use real people for those. I still find it sad. Now I am curious though... I think I'll ask some of my non-college educated friends over the next few days.

[Jorsay]

Not many around here have even graduated from college. :)

 

 

As I said, you obviously associate with highly educated people. I believe that only about 25% of adults have a college education. Yet, you seem to view a college education as some type of minimum standard. We are talking about 15 year olds, no high school diploma.

 

Otherwise, I still say knowing the oceans (at least 4) and continents (7)

 

The test was on ALL the oceans. It apparently didn't say "list 4 oceans and 7 continents". That would have been much easier. 21 out of 23 looked in their books to verify their answer. I would say that those 21 took the more intelligent course of action.

 

Otherwise, I still say knowing the oceans (at least 4) and continents (7) are like knowing the ABC's or simple math facts. Once learned I can't imagine how anyone could forget them even if they didn't use them ever again.

 

Memorizing the oceans is nothing at all like memorizing the alphabet.

 

A person uses the alphabet nearly every minute of every day (reading signs and labels, using the internet, writing your name, etc...). There is a song that everyone learns in order to remember the alphabet. If you don't know the alphabet, you will have difficulty finding even the most menial work.

 

By contrast, the names of the oceans rarely come up for the average 15 year old. Perhaps never. No job of which I am aware would require you to memorize the names of the oceans.

 

Memorizing the oceans is more like memorizing the state bird, or state flag. It is a bit less useful than memorizing which months have 30 days or the dates of the solstices and equinoxes. It is like memorizing ALL Newton's laws of motion, or the exact conversion formula from feet to Meters, or the value of pi to 4 decimal places, only, again, knowing ALL oceans is less useful. Can you answer those very basic questions? How much of an advantage in life do you have if you can? I would say "a negligible advantage". On the other hand, "Can you use Newton's laws or pi? Do you know the signifigance of a solstice or equinox? Given the formula, can you convert from one system of measurement to another?" are questions whose answers are valuable life skills.

 

Imagine having someone tell you you've won a trip to Europe and then having to figure out where you're going! Ditto for Asia, South America, Africa, etc.

 

 

This is not the same thing. If the question had been "where is Europe? Where is Africa? etc...", that would have been a much easier question. But the question was to list ALL the oceans and contents. Not only do you have to know them, but you have to know when you have named them all. This is different than where is the Southern Ocean (which I finally found on my globe, thank you :lol:)

 

 

We, too, own a business (Civil Engineering). I checked. Every single one of our employees knew (allowing for 4 oceans and Australia). They were surprised to hear that any adult wouldn't know. However, they did bring up episodes of Leno, etc. I guess they do use real people for those. I still find it sad. Now I am curious though... I think I'll ask some of my non-college educated friends over the next few days.

 

So you are 'sad' because only 9% of a group of a group of 15 year olds are as bright as a smaller group of professional Civil Engineers when it comes to naming oceans? :confused:

 

Not only that, if your employees had had a book in their hands when you asked them, and you told them it was a test and that they could use the book without penalty, you believe that the smart ones wouldn't have verified their answers in the book?:confused:

[pqr]

I guess I should be disgraced then, because I never heard of a Southern Ocean. Now I am not a genius, but I am a Columbia Grad on the Dean's list, a published author in the field of education, 99.9% on several of the graduate standardized exams, 97% percent on wordsmart, have taught at the graduate level, and a self-made millionaire, but perhaps I am just a disgrace becuase I wasn't certain about all my oceans. Imagine, after 50 years of life it's all come down to this. I am a disgrace because I didn't know my oceans.

 

And you know what else, I still don't know where the Southern Ocean is, and, even worse, I am not going to look it up. So I will continue to be a disgrace. And don't spoil it and tell me.

 

BTW, I also don't know what the state bird of my native state is.

 

A published author in the field of education, 99.9% on exams 97%....deans list...millionaire..... and you have no desire to know something as simple as the location of the world's oceans? I strive to teach my children to love learning and if they do not know something I insist that they look it up, I would hope authors in the field of education would feel the same way.

 

By the way no need for you to brag, rest assured most of us can not match the qualifications that you listed.

Edited November 23, 2009 by pqr

[dragons in the flower bed]

I think memorizing all the rivers in Africa would be a waste of time or knowing all the state capitols (why?) is a waste

 

No it's not! There are references to African places all of the time in conversation, literature and the news, even in games, and when you don't know any major African landmarks, how can someone help you pinpoint the relative location? Besides, we have a duty to our fellow man to know at least the names of things that are major to their lives, like the greatest river on their continent.