Help, please! Sticky situation with 13yo DD (adult content)

[AlmiraGulch]

A couple of months ago I caught my 13 year old dd looking at porn on the internet. Naive mother that I am, it never occurred to me that she would even know what that stuff is, much less to look for it.

 

I didn't freak out. I had a long conversation with her about how it's perfectly natural to be curious, but that the types of things she was seeing and reading are not in any way meant for 13 year olds, not at all reflective of reality, not appropriate, too mature, and, bottom line, simply not allowed in my home.

 

I immediately put the strictest net nanny on the computer that I could find and did see in the log that she had tried again to access some sites she shouldn't have. I called her on it and was not quite as nice this time, saying that it absolutely was not allowed, and that now the issue was simply that she had deliberately disobeyed me. Last warning.

 

Tonight I caught her reading a book of erotica (it was mine...don't judge, please...I'm a grown woman and it's not like it was hanging out on a family bookshelf. She really had to search to find it!). That was the final straw for me! This time, it's about violation of trust. Not only did she again deliberately disobey me and disregard the direct and mature conversations we've had about it, but she violated my privacy by going through my things.

 

She's losing the right to privacy in my home and will have to somehow (I have no idea how) earn back the ability to have it. Her door comes off of her room first thing in the morning. She's grounded from basically everything. What else should I do? Are there other conversations I should have? What issues am I missing besides the disobedience and violation of trust?

 

It's not abnormal for girls to be curious about sex or even sexual images, but I'm concerned that this might be a bit much (unless I'm being naive again). IS it more than normal? Should I talk to her about it more? Should I do something else?

 

I just don't know what else to do at this point. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Amy1k]

I don't have any answers or advice. I've dealt with similar issues with my (now) 16 year old son and it's very frustrating. :( :hug:

[newlifemom]

No advice just :grouphug:

[Sebastian (a lady)]

While not judging your having the book, it may seem to your dd that one one hand you expect her to behave as a young lady, not as a child and that on the other hand, when you find her with adult reading material, you want to treat her as a child.

 

I'm not sure that I have great advice. But I do think there is a difference between seeking out something on the internet (where the sky is the limit) and testing the waters with something that you have deemed to be appropriate for grown ups by having in your house.

 

I can sympathize with you as another mom. But I can also say (as a former 13 yo girl) that I would be resentful of what I would probably see as a double standard. Not just that you see some things as appropriate for adults and not children, but that you probably expect adult (or at least pretty responsible grown up) behavior from a 13 yo in some areas but a childlike innocence in others. I think I would have been so blinded by my anger at losing a bedroom door at this age that I would have been unable/unwilling to even consider my parents' reason for the action.

 

As my sons have gotten older, I've had to reconsider some of my own reading choices. There are romance novels that I've had to decide weren't really worthy of my time.

[Karen in CO]

I'd start with a lot of intensive listening. Findout why she is reading it. What she is looking for. Have some serious talks. 13 and curious is one thing. 13 and obsessed is something else, but but but... There could be more to it. It can also be a sign of abuse. So, I'd start asking and listening and poking around and find out whats what and if it is more than just curiosity.

[AlmiraGulch]

While not judging your having the book, it may seem to your dd that one one hand you expect her to behave as a young lady, not as a child and that on the other hand, when you find her with adult reading material, you want to treat her as a child.

 

I'm not sure that I have great advice. But I do think there is a difference between seeking out something on the internet (where the sky is the limit) and testing the waters with something that you have deemed to be appropriate for grown ups by having in your house.

 

I can sympathize with you as another mom. But I can also say (as a former 13 yo girl) that I would be resentful of what I would probably see as a double standard. Not just that you see some things as appropriate for adults and not children, but that you probably expect adult (or at least pretty responsible grown up) behavior from a 13 yo in some areas but a childlike innocence in others. I think I would have been so blinded by my anger at losing a bedroom door at this age that I would have been unable/unwilling to even consider my parents' reason for the action.

 

As my sons have gotten older, I've had to reconsider some of my own reading choices. There are romance novels that I've had to decide weren't really worthy of my time.

 

That's an interesting perspective and I appreciate it, but I don't really understand it.

 

Are you saying that there are not or should not be different standards for parents and children? Also, I thought I treated her as a young lady when I had the open and honest discussions I did with her about the subject matter. The punishments are not actually related to the book but rather to her disobedience and violation of trust. So at this point, it's entirely punitive.

 

That said, I could be so upset that perhaps I'll think differently of it in the morning. Who knows?

 

At any rate, thanks for taking the time to respond. I do appreciate every angle.

[ElaineJ]

:grouphug: I'm sorry! This is a hard thing to walk through with your daughter. It sounds like you have done a good job of discussing the issues and trying to connect with her thus far. I think if it were me- (I haven't had to face this at this point with my kids, though) - I would want to find out how long she has been viewing p*rn. I would also be curious in her response to your conversations. Was she defiant, or did she seem to understand your perspective and show remorse or a desire to change? If she shows understanding and remorse and then continues to pursue accessing p*rn with such determination, I would be concerned that she is dealing with an addictive type behavior. I know that the question of whether or not p*rn is addictive is controversial, but the experiences of people close to me has convinced me that it is. In that case, I would seriously consider bringing in others trained to help in this area. If it is just flat out in your face defiance, that is a whole other thing. I would be looking for the root of that and not get too distracted by the fact that the presenting issue is viewing p*rn. It sounds like you are a great mommy and I wish you and your daughter the best outcome of this situation.

 

ElaineJ

[Daisy]

I'd start with a lot of intensive listening. Findout why she is reading it. What she is looking for. Have some serious talks. 13 and curious is one thing. 13 and obsessed is something else, but but but... There could be more to it. It can also be a sign of abuse. So, I'd start asking and listening and poking around and find out whats what and if it is more than just curiosity.

 

:iagree: I'd want to have a serious heart-to-heart about what was going on. And I think if it would work I'd definitely go so far as to agree to remove all the material from the house if it will assist my daughter in breaking this behavior.

 

Guess I'm not seeing this as just disobedience. P0rn can be extremely addictive and I'd want to come at it from the angle of helping her.

[sparrow]

Well, I have to say, I don't know what *I* would have been looking at if there was such a thing as internet access when I was 13 :blushing:. My parents owned a little store when I was growing up. There was a magazine rack with, ahem, adult magazines. I looked. I was also younger than 13 and curious.

 

I'm not quite sure what I would do in your shoes, but I don't know if I'd remove her bedroom door. If there is a computer in her room, I would remove it.

 

Good thoughts to you as you navigate through this.

[AlmiraGulch]

I'd start with a lot of intensive listening. Findout why she is reading it. What she is looking for. Have some serious talks. 13 and curious is one thing. 13 and obsessed is something else, but but but... There could be more to it. It can also be a sign of abuse. So, I'd start asking and listening and poking around and find out whats what and if it is more than just curiosity.

We actually have a history of sexual abuse in my family, unfortunately, so I'm hypersensitive to it and did consider that. I was not abused, and my daughter has never been exposed to any known abuser, but still....I've wondered...

 

I have broached the subject with her many times and she has been in counseling for other things over the years, but she has given no indication (and in fact has flatly denied) that anything has even happened.

 

I have not asked her what she is looking for. That's a good question. Thanks for the advice.

[LittleIzumi]

That does sound more like an addiction than just a curiosity. I know someone with a very serious porn addiction. You would not believe the desperate lengths people with addictions can go to get the "fix." (Kind of like if there was an alcoholic going for the hand sanitizer for the alcohol content.) Digging through all of your personal stuff to try and find that book, if it was hidden as it sounds, fits more with an addiction than with just curiosity (unless she went for your book just to make a point--like you can have it, why can't I??). Hopefully it was just a bit of teenage pique, because addiction is hard to fight. :grouphug::grouphug:

[Joanne]

She's losing the right to privacy in my home and will have to somehow (I have no idea how) earn back the ability to have it. Her door comes off of her room first thing in the morning. She's grounded from basically everything. What else should I do? Are there other conversations I should have? What issues am I missing besides the disobedience and violation of trust?

 

It's not abnormal for girls to be curious about sex or even sexual images, but I'm concerned that this might be a bit much (unless I'm being naive again). IS it more than normal? Should I talk to her about it more? Should I do something else?

 

I think you are handling it well for the progressive violation of the rules.

 

I think it's completely appropriate for you to have adult sexual toys/enhancements; it's not a double standard.

 

Sex is *fascinating* and intruiging. Some people are more prone to hyperofucs, to addiction, to obsession that others. I don't think her situation *necessarily* fits those labels, but I agree that her persistence warrants extra vigilance in that it could be more than age expected curiosity.

[greensummervillian]

It may be an addiction, it may be that she was abused, but I wouldn't jump to conclusions. At that age and younger I was intensely curious and I would certainly have gone to great lengths to be able to see it. I young girl I know took our book of famous works of art into her bedroom so she could study the nudes. Your daughter probably thought she wasn't going to get caught.

[SonshineLearner]

Hey There,

 

I was an innocent, never had sex till much older.... 16 yr old when I found "The Joy of Christian S*x" or something like that.... at a lady's house... where I was babysitting. It was on the table... and I remember looking through... being fascinated by it. WOW so many different pics...

 

I'm not totally sure that it's something that will turn into an addiction. I think it's time for a "purity of mind" putting herself in the right thinking for a pure future... and such...

 

I'm not sure that I'd freak out.... I'm sure I'd be upset. I'm sure I'd talk about it.... and hugs....

 

Sorry you're going through it...

 

Carrie

[AlmiraGulch]

That does sound more like an addiction than just a curiosity. I know someone with a very serious porn addiction. You would not believe the desperate lengths people with addictions can go to get the "fix." (Kind of like if there was an alcoholic going for the hand sanitizer for the alcohol content.) Digging through all of your personal stuff to try and find that book, if it was hidden as it sounds, fits more with an addiction than with just curiosity (unless she went for your book just to make a point--like you can have it, why can't I??). Hopefully it was just a bit of teenage pique, because addiction is hard to fight. :grouphug::grouphug:

 

I don't think she was digging through my things specifically to find that type of book. She wouldn't have had any way to know it even existed. I think she was probably nosing around going through my stuff (and I know I did that with my parents' things when I was probably her age) and happened across it.

 

So, while I admit I am concerned that she's a bit obsessive about it, I don't know if this case happened to just be circumstance, as opposed to actually seeking it out this time, kwim?

[Jean in Newcastle]

I don't think she was digging through my things specifically to find that type of book. She wouldn't have had any way to know it even existed. I think she was probably nosing around going through my stuff (and I know I did that with my parents' things when I was probably her age) and happened across it.

 

So, while I admit I am concerned that she's a bit obsessive about it, I don't know if this case happened to just be circumstance, as opposed to actually seeking it out this time, kwim?

 

Is she allowed to nose through your stuff? If she is, and just happened across it, then it would seem natural to me that she would open it up and look at it. If she isn't allowed to nose through your stuff, then it is a privacy/personal space issue. She should be disciplined for that. I would not discipline in this situation for what she happened to find.

 

Re. the internet. At first she found stuff because she was allowed (by the computer) to roam around and nose through stuff. Later she tried to access stuff but it could be simply that she wanted to see if that kind of stuff really was blocked by your software.

 

I would talk to her about what she's seen. I'd talk to her about how it made her feel. And about what she might be wondering about. Your first post made it sound (to me) like it was a deliberate act on her part to get into this stuff. But your last post makes me think like it wasn't. You need to have the discernment to figure out which it is, because if it wasn't deliberate than I would not make a big deal out of it other than what normally would happen for invading your privacy.

[AlmiraGulch]

I would talk to her about what she's seen. I'd talk to her about how it made her feel. And about what she might be wondering about. Your first post made it sound (to me) like it was a deliberate act on her part to get into this stuff. But your last post makes me think like it wasn't. You need to have the discernment to figure out which it is, because if it wasn't deliberate than I would not make a big deal out of it other than what normally would happen for invading your privacy.

She's definitely not allowed to nose around through my stuff. That's the reason for the punishment....the violation of trust and privacy. I agree that if she happened across it, it is natural to want to open it. Had she not been doing something she shouldn't have, though, she wouldn't have had access.

 

I do think that she was deliberately looking for the material on the internet. I don't think that was the case with the book. I'm just going to have to ask her and see what she says.

[Cindyg]

I would not take the door off her room. Take the lock off, or install a small window, or institute some rule about keeping the door cracked unless she's changing. But a 13YO needs to be able to change her clothes in private. And, yes, I know she could change in the bathroom. But leave the bedroom door on. Just don't allow her to lock it.

 

The internet has introduced some scary things into childhood.

 

I also stumbled across that book someone else mentioned, The Joys of xxx. I was horrified that my parents had such a book! I considered it porn. I thought my parents were totally gross and also hypocritical (because they considered porn immoral but had some under their bed!). Of course I don't feel that way now. But I don't know how my mom could have convinced me otherwise at age 13.

 

You might try the concept of adult beverages -- OK for adults, not for kids.

 

It's a tough situation, I say glibbly as my 12YO is still on the other side of puberty.

[Rosie_0801]

In my opinion she certainly deserves discipline for sneaking through your belongings, but not for reading the book. I think it is a bit soon to be concerned about a porn addiction too. How do you feel when you develop an interest in something and can't find the information you are looking for? I think the best way to deal with her interest is to satisfy it. Obviously porn isn't an age appropriate way though! I would suggest a conversation along the lines of "You are in deep trouble for sneaking through my stuff, you know way better than that. However, I can see that this is an important issue for you and we need to address that. Perhaps you can explain what sort of information you are looking for and I will think of a healthy way for you to learn it." I think banning everything and punishing her over it is a very good way to encourage more sneaking, because she will *know* she can't talk to you about it. Not that 13 year olds usually want to talk to their parents about such things...

 

Rosie- (Yeah, fine for me to say, my oldest is 2)

[asta]

We actually have a history of sexual abuse in my family, unfortunately, so I'm hypersensitive to it and did consider that. I was not abused, and my daughter has never been exposed to any known abuser, but still....I've wondered...

 

I have broached the subject with her many times and she has been in counseling for other things over the years, but she has given no indication (and in fact has flatly denied) that anything has even happened.

 

I have not asked her what she is looking for. That's a good question. Thanks for the advice.

 

You (obviously) don't have to answer me, but one thing to consider: if part of what she has been in counseling for involves something on the bipolar spectrum, the hypomanic and manic aspects of BP bring on a rush of sexual mental imagery and sometimes physical sensations. At that age, it isn't about "gee, I think I'll go have sex", or "porn sounds like a good outlet for me as a lifetime activity", it is an adolescent trying to wrap their brain around a confusing set of messages that their brain and body is sending (on top of puberty!).

 

HTH

 

 

a

[Cera]

Taking her door away doesn't seem like a logical consequence for invading your privacy. I would consider installing a lock on your door not allowing her any access without supervision. Would you be as bothered if she was poking around in your things but didn't find and read the book?

 

As far as her looking at porn and reading adult novels I think it is fairly normal for girls around that age. I would worry that the more you punish her the less likely she will be to ask you questions and share what she is thinking. I wouldn't want to close off communication regarding sex with a 13 year old.

[Laura Corin]

Had you banned her from reading? Did she only think that it was internet porn that she was banned from?

 

There are two issues: is this normal and what to do about the lying?

 

I think it's completely normal. I was borrowing my brothers' soft porn magazines at that age. I haven't looked at porn since I left home at 18. It was curiosity and hormones. Personally, I would ban the internet porn but allow (soft) porn/erotic magazines or books. But that's not the situation that you have now. It's now about lying and trust.

 

Calvin betrayed our trust and lied repeatedly to us a couple of months ago - it wasn't about porn but about computer use. After the second time he lied, we sat him down for a big talk. Discussed how we had been wrong to give him the freedoms he had misused, because he was clearly not ready for them. We therefore were taking them all away from him and taking complete control of his life. We took away computer time and increased his chore time (the leaves started falling off the trees with perfect timing, so he's spent weeks raking leaves).

 

He's in the dog house and he knows that he needs to earn his way out again. He knows that it's not about the computer time - it's about independence, maturity and trust. If possible, I would recommend making a similar distiction when talking to your daughter: it's not about the porn, but about the lying.

 

Laura

[stripe]

Honestly I think she's curious. Maybe she needs some discussions with you and some books on her level about sex and human development or whatever, including guidance on what is appropriate behavior. I think you have to be careful not to try to be the "thought police," as it's normal to wonder about sex at that age. However, you certainly do have the right to not have her go through your things, and you should emphasize that as well. I do not think this is a porn addiction. This is not a criticism; it is a suggestion. It sounds to me like she has too much unsupervised time on her hands (as you were obviously not in your room when she went through your stuff). Get her busy doing some productive activities.

[Pretty in Pink]

I think her curiosity is completely normal for her age. I do think you have to address the privacy issue, though I personally think that taking her door down is a bit much.

 

Were it me, I would have a serious discussion about boundaries and let her know, in no uncertain terms, that she may not browse my belongings without my permission, "My closet is absolutely off limits," something like that. I'd also expect that she may not listen. It's probably time for you to invest in a lock box of some sort for those belongings just to play it safe.

[jplain]

At her age, it is completely normal to be interested, even extremely interested, in sex and intimate relationships. (I certainly was!) Remember that at 13, she's heading towards sexual maturity. Her hormones are giving her the message that it is time to start thinking about reproducing. You can't fight that. I wouldn't bother trying. What you need to do is give her ways to handle it.

 

So you need to start by talking. If she's not comfortable talking to you about sex, you might want to ask another trusted adult (an aunt or much older cousin maybe?) to talk to her instead. I would definitely steer her toward what I'd consider to be more appropriate sources for "entertainment" purposes. Age-appropriate novels with romantic storylines and/or age-appropriate films would probably fill the need just fine.

 

You may also want to start fresh with some boundaries, and let her know what is and isn't allowed in your house with respect to personal belongings. Be honest with yourself. If you haven't made it crystal clear, please don't take out that oversight on her. Pretend she's another adult, one you care for and respect, and figure out how you'd address this. You'd probably sit down when you're feeling calm, and talk about how you feel your privacy was violated. You'd try to present analogies that would make sense to her. And then you'd let her know that this can't happen again. Let her know that she isn't welcome in your room (or wherever it is) without your prior knowledge and permission.

 

After you've done these things, just let it go. You'll feel so much better. :grouphug:

[MeanestMomInMidwest]

is the removal of her door in reacation to her invading your privacy (that she knew better than to do) or to her reading the book?

 

I mean, if you found out that she had nosed through your stuff, but hadn't found the book, would your punishment be the same?

[momtoboys]

The only *girl* I have known who looked at porn on the internet was sexually abused. Seriously, I think it's more common in boys.

 

However, that is *NOT* to say this is the case w/ your DD. I don't know how to help you. Have you considered counseling?

[Haiku]

My mom never had erotica, but she did have adult romance novels in her closet. I was sneak them out of her closet and read them. She also had a copy of Judy Blume's Forever that I snuck out of her closet and read. I don't think that's unusual.

 

I think that taking her door off is going way overboard and is going to result in her being so angry that anything else you say or do will make no positive impact on her. I think it's far too punitive to take her door off.

 

Aside from completely banning her from computer use, even if it's supervised, I think I would try to find out more about why this type of thing is appealing to her. I wouldn't punish her for the book issue.

 

Tara

[DawnM]

My friend's son looked at porn on the internet and she went so overboard that for the next FOUR years he was not allowed on the computer without her direct supervision. He found ways to sneak and lie about it for quite a while.

 

I think making it too big of a deal leads to more lying, sneaking, and issues.

 

FWIW: I think it is perfectly normal of your daughter to be very curious. I just think that if we make it something dirty that we never look at or discuss, it becomes taboo and more curiousity ensues.

 

Dawn

[justamouse]

I certainly remember reading stuff like that at her age and even reading all of my Moms medical textbooks in search of anything sexual.

 

I also know what it's like to have your kid (my son in my case) search through your room for things. It was an extreme violation of trust and I made sure he knew it.

 

One thing I wanted to make sure of when I went through that is that I let my kids know that everything the were feeling was natural. My mother flipped out on me and kept telling me how bad and sinful I was--it set up a lot of problems, and I didn't want that for my children.

 

Those feelings (physical) she gets when she reads and looks at those images feel good, and that's the way we're made. But in this day and age we ask our children to control a physical response that 1-adults have an outlet for (and don't do such a good job at controlling, either), and 2- are surging because of their hormones. Way back she would have been getting married or allowed to partner and have a release. In this day and age we ask our children to control their physical maturity for another 15-20 years while they get their schooling and attain jobs.

 

With my son I told him that reading those books is fine, and that self pleasure was a good outlet for those physical feelings. Just keep it private.

Edited November 9, 2009 by justamouse

[lionfamily1999]

Maybe it's time for a light sex-ed? At that age/maturity level (physically) it's difficult to figure out why those things are so exciting (iykwIm) and then, why Mom and Dad get so worked up about it. I would be careful not to accidentally venture into the realm of sexual feelings are bad. IOW, dd might think she is being punished for the feelings/curiousity/and the excitement they arouse, rather than the breach of trust.

 

A talk about the natural reactions of bodies, hormones, and how things change at dd's age could help. I also agree with the pp that said these things are private, imo that's something that needs to be covered.

 

Also, with the books... I've been cleaning out my shelves, because the kids are starting to get more voracious with their reading and, frankly, I have books I do not want them reading. So, off with the books I don't want to share :p

 

Maybe she's ready for a romance or two? Not the Fabio type, but the Jane Austin type. Books where 'making love' means creating love, not sex ;) Then you could feed the dreaminess, while making sure the morals stay intact.

[Gretchen in NJ]

Well, I have to say, I don't know what *I* would have been looking at if there was such a thing as internet access when I was 13 :blushing:. My parents owned a little store when I was growing up. There was a magazine rack with, ahem, adult magazines. I looked. I was also younger than 13 and curious.

 

I'm not quite sure what I would do in your shoes, but I don't know if I'd remove her bedroom door. If there is a computer in her room, I would remove it.

 

Good thoughts to you as you navigate through this.

I would remove her door. I have seen this used before with much success. Personally, I would not allow my children to have a computer in their room. Child Safety experts will tell you to put their computer in a room where you can see the screen.

 

You are you daughter's roll model. She is looking to you to learn what is right and wrong.

[Haiku]

I just wanted to add that, having been a teen who snooped through my mom's things, my thought is that while it is rude and disrespectful, it's not unusual or worth too huge of a reaction. My mom was this ... woman ... who had this whole other life than just being my mom! What was she really like? What are women's lives really like? These were the things I wanted to know about, and these are the reasons I snooped.

 

Were it me I would tell my dd that she may not snoop through my things, and then I would do something to make sure that the temptation to do so was thwarted ... like lock my room.

 

I don't think the snooping is a huge deal in the grand scheme of things. (Oh, and I have a 15 year old dd, so I am constantly trying to sort the "big deals" from the "little deals.")

 

Tara

[Laurie4b]

Did she expect to find sexually explicit stuff in your things?

 

Losing her door makes no sense to me in this situation unless the computer is in her room. In that case, I would remove the computer, not her door. Removing the door should be saved for offenses that removing the door would actually prevent: having a boyfriend in her room, slamming the door, etc. Removing her door for going through your things would have a strong potential of feeling like revenge, not discipline.

 

I also think that for you to come in with the big guns now will certainly look to her like a double standard because whatever you say about it, she'll see it as she found your sexually explicit stuff and it made you mad. I also think it is normal for a girl to go through her mother's things at that age. I did. I was just curious. Having your door removed is a heck of a punishment for curiosity, and for what is likely an impulse to find out about being an adult woman and to emulate you.

 

If you haven't given her reason to think that you had sexually explicit material, then it's really two offenses. I would totally separate the two and would express my feelings over having my privacy violated and have her do some extra chores that I usually do as a way of showing the respect that she didn't show by going through my things. I would also restrict access to my room for a while.

 

It's different if she expected to find sexually explicit material in your things. I think if she did expect to find it, that is a more complicated issue--on your part, not hers--if you have given her reason to think that you were using it, then you have some part of the responsibility because you haven't been careful. You're in a much more subtle situation than you would be if you thought of sexually explicit material as morally wrong and didn't use it yourself. It's not illegal for teens (like drinking and cigarette smoking are), you use it, but you don't want her to because she's not mature enough yet... what will be your cut-off for maturity? Why is it okay for you but not for her if you are both sexual beings with no outlet? (I'm assuming because you said that you are single) BTW--I''m not asking you to answer me-I'm just posing the kinds of questions that I think a teen would need answered. I think you need a more comprehensive philosophy than just "you're not mature enough" if her body is mature enough. What is it about the material that you wouldn't want her to see? At 13, using "maturity" is like waving a red flag in front of a bull. Most teenagers overestimate their maturity and find it insulting not to be thought of as mature. I would try to find a more specific way to say what you think the dividing line is.

[AlmiraGulch]

Thank you so much to everyone for your opinions and advice! A couple of updates....

 

First, just to be clear, the removal of her door has nothing to do with the material she was reading, but for going through my things. She knows very well that we are to respect each others boundaries and privacy (i.e., she has been in trouble before for nosing through her sister's room) and so this is the result of a culmination of activities and not just this one. I don't go through her things, read her journals, etc. and so she owes the rest of us the same respect. She's now going to see how bad it feels to have that taken away. So, it has nothing to do with the book she found, but everything to do with the manner in which she came across it. She knew in advance that this would be the result if she continued to go places she shouldn't.

 

I've had plenty of conversations with her about sex and sexuality, and that it's perfectly normal for her to be having the feelings that she is. I have walked in on her before in moments that should have been private and told her that she just needs to be sure she locks her door. No freaking out, no nothing but a discussion that there's nothing wrong with what she's doing but it's definitely a private, personal thing.

 

She and I had a long and frank conversation about it again this morning. Based on that conversation, I don't believe there has been any abuse and there is no addiction, but more of a natural curiosity. Like someone else pointed out, when we were kids we looked at our parents' magazines or books. Now, it's more accessible because of the internet, but the motivation behind it is no different. I think she's fine. Thanks again to all of you who reassured me that there was nothing abnormal going on here. I remember seeking out similar things at her age and I was neither addicted nor obsessed. I just needed to be reminded.

[EKS]

Had you banned her from reading? Did she only think that it was internet porn that she was banned from?

 

There are two issues: is this normal and what to do about the lying?

 

I think it's completely normal. I was borrowing my brothers' soft porn magazines at that age. I haven't looked at porn since I left home at 18. It was curiosity and hormones. Personally, I would ban the internet porn but allow (soft) porn/erotic magazines or books. But that's not the situation that you have now. It's now about lying and trust.

 

Calvin betrayed our trust and lied repeatedly to us a couple of months ago - it wasn't about porn but about computer use. After the second time he lied, we sat him down for a big talk. Discussed how we had been wrong to give him the freedoms he had misused, because he was clearly not ready for them. We therefore were taking them all away from him and taking complete control of his life. We took away computer time and increased his chore time (the leaves started falling off the trees with perfect timing, so he's spent weeks raking leaves).

 

He's in the dog house and he knows that he needs to earn his way out again. He knows that it's not about the computer time - it's about independence, maturity and trust. If possible, I would recommend making a similar distiction when talking to your daughter: it's not about the porn, but about the lying.

 

Laura

 

:iagree:

[Tidbits of Learning]

This is just me, but I wouldn't take a door off of my child's room at that age unless I thought there was criminal behavior. I would probably let her buy some harlequin romances and maybe get her some magazines. Let her satisfy her curiousity on your terms. The internet has too many viruses and isn't safe from predators.

[stripe]

First, just to be clear, the removal of her door has nothing to do with the material she was reading, but for going through my things.

I don't see the connection at all, frankly. I think the appropriate solution would be to put a lock on your door. And, as I suggested previously, monitor her activities more closely.

 

She knows very well that we are to respect each others boundaries and privacy (i.e., she has been in trouble before for nosing through her sister's room) and so this is the result of a culmination of activities and not just this one. I don't go through her things, read her journals, etc. and so she owes the rest of us the same respect. She's now going to see how bad it feels to have that taken away.

Aha. She hurt you, so you'll show her how how rotten it feels. I don't think this reinforces your family view of respecting boundaries.

 

I've had plenty of conversations with her about sex and sexuality, and that it's perfectly normal for her to be having the feelings that she is. I have walked in on her before in moments that should have been private and told her that she just needs to be sure she locks her door. No freaking out, no nothing but a discussion that there's nothing wrong with what she's doing but it's definitely a private, personal thing.

I think that you have expressed very clearly why she needs and deserves to have some privacy.

[johnandtinagilbert]

I just wanted to add something. Friends. Does she have curious or sexually active friends? Sometimes, we look at what we've heard about so we can fit in and understand conversations. The mentioning of ma$terb@t!on and girlfriends (from friends) was what triggered the curiosity in my son, so I thought I'd mention it.

[LibraryLover]

You're telling her it's ok to have feelings, and telling her it's ok to keep private things private, which is great. If you take her door down, you're not walking your talk. With no door she has no privacy. I would't do that. It's not going to build trust, as you say one thing, but do another.

[AlmiraGulch]

Again, I want to thank everyone so much for your input. I really do appreciate it!

 

Regarding the door issue...it's going. Not forever, but for some period of time yet to be determined (probably a week or two). I believe it to be an appropriate consequence for her violating the privacy of another member of the family yet again. She was told this is what would happen, so this is what is going to happen. It does not feel good when you have no privacy in your own personal space, and that is the feeling I want her to experience.

 

A couple of other things...she doesn't have a computer in her room. She used to be allowed to take the laptop into her room, but she isn't anymore. Also, she is fairly closely monitored, but no, I am not with her every second of the day. Someone (I can't remember who...sorry) has suggested a couple of times that she is left unsupervised too often. I appreciate the input, but no, she is not. She is 13 years old and I'm not with her every second of the day. I shouldn't have to be. Part of growing up is learning to follow the rules even when you're not being watched 24/7. Sometimes it's a tough lesson to learn, but it is what it is.

[Anita in NC]

She sounds like she is curious. Have a heart to heart and find out what she is curious about and then give her material (books, dvds) that you deem appropriate for her age.

 

I think being curious at that age is perfectly normal. Unfortunately with the age of the internet information is much more readily available and easy to find.

 

When I was that age I use to watch porn that my folks had rented and never hid very well. At school people use to bring Playboy mags and such for everyone to look at.

[stripe]

Someone (I can't remember who...sorry) has suggested a couple of times that she is left unsupervised too often. I appreciate the input, but no, she is not. She is 13 years old and I'm not with her every second of the day. I shouldn't have to be.

I was the one (or one) who said this. I think it is worth finding other things for her to do, because when someone has time to go through her mother's belongings, in my opinion, she has too much free time on her hands. I didn't say that you have to be with her every second of the day. She could be with other people, or have other responsibilities that demand her attention. In my experience, it's very easy for someone with vast amounts of idle time to waste a good portion of it or spend it on not so great activities. She needs to channel her time to better aims.

 

I am not entirely sure what you wanted in this thread as you seem to be doing exactly what you initially planned and seem hostile to other suggestions. But I hope you are able to repair your relationship with your daughter so it is supportive for both of you.

[Haiku]

It does not feel good when you have no privacy in your own personal space, and that is the feeling I want her to experience.

 

 

Sorry, but this just smacks of "You hurt me, so I am going to hurt you back." I don't think this teaches compassion for others. I think it's more likely to teach how to take revenge on someone.

 

I have told my kids, at times, that "If this happens again, that will be the consequence," and then realized later that it wasn't such a hot idea. Sometimes I have been too stubborn to re-evaluate, but other times I have admitted to my kids that my reaction was wrong.

 

I'd encourage you to re-evaluate this one. I think the unintended consequences will have more impact than the intended ones.

 

Tara

[LibraryLover]

:iagree: This is a time to deepen the bond you have with your dd. I would try to communicate lovingly, and on a deeper, more honest level with her; to show empathy will teach her empathy. You want to bring her closer to you, not push her further away.

 

Sorry, but this just smacks of "You hurt me, so I am going to hurt you back." I don't think this teaches compassion for others. I think it's more likely to teach how to take revenge on someone.

 

I have told my kids, at times, that "If this happens again, that will be the consequence," and then realized later that it wasn't such a hot idea. Sometimes I have been too stubborn to re-evaluate, but other times I have admitted to my kids that my reaction was wrong.

 

I'd encourage you to re-evaluate this one. I think the unintended consequences will have more impact than the intended ones.

 

Tara

Edited November 9, 2009 by LibraryLover

[inactive]

If it was *my* daughter, she'd be losing a lot more than just her door. ;)

 

And, she would have to earn it all back with good behavior, appropriate attitude, etc.

[jazzyfizzle]

I certainly remember reading stuff like that at her age and even reading all of my Moms medical textbooks in search of anything sexual.

 

I also know what it's like to have your kid (my son in my case) search through your room for things. It was an extreme violation of trust and I made sure he knew it.

 

One thing I wanted to make sure of when I went through that is that I let my kids know that everything the were feeling was natural. My mother flipped out on me and kept telling me how bad and sinful I was--it set up a lot of problems, and I didn't want that for my children.

 

Those feelings (physical) she gets when she reads and looks at those images feel good, and that's the way we're made. But in this day and age we ask our children to control a physical response that 1-adults have an outlet for (and don't do such a good job at controlling, either), and 2- are surging because of their hormones. Way back she would have been getting married or allowed to partner and have a release. In this day and age we ask our children to control their physical maturity for another 15-20 years while they get their schooling and attain jobs.

 

With my son I told him that reading those books is fine, and that self pleasure was a good outlet for those physical feelings. Just keep it private.

 

 

I think this is very wise and great advice. :iagree:

 

 

 

.

[Tangerine]

I think this is very wise and great advice. :iagree:

 

 

 

.

 

Somehow I missed that one, but I agree too. Really thoughtful gentle advice. I love how it keeps the child's dignity intact in an admittedly awkward situation.

[AlmiraGulch]

I was the one (or one) who said this. I think it is worth finding other things for her to do, because when someone has time to go through her mother's belongings, in my opinion, she has too much free time on her hands. I didn't say that you have to be with her every second of the day. She could be with other people, or have other responsibilities that demand her attention. In my experience, it's very easy for someone with vast amounts of idle time to waste a good portion of it or spend it on not so great activities. She needs to channel her time to better aims.

 

I am not entirely sure what you wanted in this thread as you seem to be doing exactly what you initially planned and seem hostile to other suggestions. But I hope you are able to repair your relationship with your daughter so it is supportive for both of you.

 

Wow, Stripe...I'm sorry that you feel I've been hostile. In fact, I've been nothing but! I've thanked everyone repeatedly for their input and advice. Sometimes tone and intent are difficult to discern in this type of forum. I haven't felt anything but gratitude for people taking the time to give advice that I solicited regarding this circumstance.

 

I do disagree with what some are suggesting, but I think that's allowed, don't you? ;) I appreciate everyone's perspective, but at the end of the day I still have to parent my child in the way I think best. It may not be what you (or someone else) would do, but the choice is still mine to make. It is certainly helpful, though, to have had other opinions and suggestions. After all, that is what I asked for.

[AlmiraGulch]

Sorry, but this just smacks of "You hurt me, so I am going to hurt you back." I don't think this teaches compassion for others. I think it's more likely to teach how to take revenge on someone.

 

I have told my kids, at times, that "If this happens again, that will be the consequence," and then realized later that it wasn't such a hot idea. Sometimes I have been too stubborn to re-evaluate, but other times I have admitted to my kids that my reaction was wrong.

 

I'd encourage you to re-evaluate this one. I think the unintended consequences will have more impact than the intended ones.

 

Tara

 

I hear you, Tara, and I can see why you might think that, although it just isn't the case. It's not at all about "you hurt me so I'm going to hurt you." Rather, it's the exact consequence I told her would happen if she repeated that behavior. It would have been the same regardless of whether it had been my things or her sister's.

 

I have certainly re-evaluated, though, especially considering the number of people who have expressed concern about that particular choice.

 

I asked for and value everyone's opinion. I have had much to think about and ponder and I am grateful that I've had other points of view to take into consideration while navigating this thing. It's not easy, for sure!