Jump to content

Menu

Orton-Gillingham programs


Recommended Posts

My son has been using ABeCeDarian. It is the first phonics program out of the many that we have tried that is starting to work with my son. I am realizing that while it is helping some he is just not fully getting it. He can sound out CVC words, but he has no fluency. Sometimes he can read a word fine on one page, but then acts like he has never seen the word the same word is on the next page. We are going to keep working with ABCD this semester, but I am starting to wonder if an Orton-Gillingham approach would be better for him. He is a very wiggly boy when it comes to reading. He has told me that reading is hard. We have tried the I See Sam readers and he is not ready for them just yet.

 

I would love something scripted, but Barton is out of the budget at the moment. I have looked at SPIRE, PAF, Recipe for Reading, and Wilson. Are there any others I should consider?

 

Jan

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok. I have a few more questions. I have seen SPIRE recommended a few times, but I have noticed that I can't seem to find anyone using it. I like the looks of SPIRE, but would love to hear from someone who has used the program.

 

I am also curious about Wilson. What ages for Wilson? What skills does a child need to have before starting Wilson or does Wilson start at the beginning. One of the resons that I like SPIRE is that it includes phonological awareness.

 

Jan

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Recipe for Reading by Traub and Bloom has everything you need to design your own OG program for $25.

 

You could also try Webster's Speller, my dyslexia page explains why syllables should be helpful for a dyslexic student.

 

I have a post somewhere with a bunch of links to some free Google book things that may help with phonemic awareness, here it is, I found it!

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1191907&postcount=20

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok. I have a few more questions. I have seen SPIRE recommended a few times, but I have noticed that I can't seem to find anyone using it. I like the looks of SPIRE, but would love to hear from someone who has used the program.

 

I am also curious about Wilson. What ages for Wilson? What skills does a child need to have before starting Wilson or does Wilson start at the beginning. One of the resons that I like SPIRE is that it includes phonological awareness.

 

Jan

 

Jan,

 

This might help. Tina is on the Heart of Reading group as well if you want to ask her more questions.

 

Heather

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you both. I am going to get the Recipe for Reading book for now. I hope that it will give me some ideas to use. Does it cover phonemic awareness activities as well? I think right now I am going to take a month or two and focus on his phonemic awarenss skills then start working on reading again.

 

I showed him a small part of the video on the O-G site. His eyes lit up. He is excited about doing reading differently. That tells me that going with a multi-sensory reading curriculum is that way to do for him.

 

Jan

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We have tried the I See Sam readers and he is not ready for them just yet.

 

 

Jan

 

Which set of the I See Sam books did you try? What do you mean by he is not ready for them yet? The first set starts out with only 5 sounds and 3 words and builds very slowly from there. Just trying to figure out what is not working for him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you both. I am going to get the Recipe for Reading book for now. I hope that it will give me some ideas to use. Does it cover phonemic awareness activities as well? I think right now I am going to take a month or two and focus on his phonemic awarenss skills then start working on reading again.

 

No, it doesn't cover phonemic awareness. This post by Lovedtodeath should give you some phonemic awareness ideas:

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showpost.php?p=807429&postcount=22

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Which set of the I See Sam books did you try? What do you mean by he is not ready for them yet? The first set starts out with only 5 sounds and 3 words and builds very slowly from there. Just trying to figure out what is not working for him.

 

I tried the first one. It was an older one that I found online. It had the word lion in it. I knew there is no way he is ready for that and I really don't want him learning to read by sight words. (His sister went to public school in K and that is how she learned to read.) I realized recently that the newer versions don't have the word lion in the first book. I decided to try them again.

 

We have not covered the long e sound. I told him that ee together make this sound. I explained it. Then I had him read the word. He did okay. But when we got to the next page he acts like he had no idea what that word is. I didn't expect him to remember it after only one time and told him again what the sounds are. He got frustrated by the time he is a few pages into the book. He was just done. He had used up all of his focus ablity. I know that when we had him evaluated for speech recently the evalutor mentioned that he seems to have lots of internal distactors. I have noticed when he is overwhelmed he shuts down and gets very wiggily.

 

He also struggled for a little while with the word Sam in the first book. I can't tell you how many times we have practiced the word Sam in the last 6 months. He is getting better and he can read it, but it takes him awhile to go through the process of looking at the word, sounding out all of the sounds in his head, and then blending them together to say the word. He just doesn't have any fluency yet even though I know he knows these words. And some days he does well and I think we are making progress and then the next day I feel like we are back to the begining.

 

This is just in reading though. He is a completely different child with numbers and math. He sometimes writes numbers backwards, but understanding how numbers relate is very easy for him. He has taught himself several advance math concepts because he just gets math. He surprised me a few weeks ago when he memorized our 10 digit phone number in about 10 minutes and has not forgotten it.

 

Jan

Edited by jg_puppy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

That really helps. You are right, you don't want him learning sight words.

 

I really think that giving the I See Sam books another go would be well worth it. Check out http://www.piperbooks.co.uk/ for lots more information on the books, how to use them, etc. If you look under research and then case studies you will see mine with my daughter.

 

With the books she is now reading simple chapter books, etc. She still needs to finish the last few sets though. If you read through the case study though you will see that we made 2 steps forward, 1 back, then 1 forward, and 2 back, etc. At one point she lost all ability to read and we had to go back to the very first books. It honestly took her WEEKS to get down the word *I*. She knew it was the letter I could not read it as the word (dont' ask how that works as I have no idea). I totally understand where you are coming from.

 

We used the cursor and moved VERY slowly through the books. It took us a week or more for each of the early books---and these were books with only 3 words in them. Now, she is on the 6th set and reading a new story every DAY and doing well. As weird as it sounds, the first set is the hardest and from there it gets easier.

 

You mention internal distractors---do you think he has ADD/ADHD? Once we started my now 12dd (known as Sue in the case studies) on meds, she made HUGE gains as she could finally focus long enough to learn.

 

This learning to read though is VERY hard work for some kids and takes a lot of effort. If you get a chance, join the yahoo group for Beginning Reading Instruction which is a group for parents, teachers, tutors, etc. using the I See Sam books for teaching reading. THere is a TON of support there (for free) and you will find out that you and your son are not alone. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Beginning-Reading-Instruction/

 

I hope this helps.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

You mention internal distractors---do you think he has ADD/ADHD? Once we started my now 12dd (known as Sue in the case studies) on meds, she made HUGE gains as she could finally focus long enough to learn.

 

 

Thanks. I have wondered before if he might be ADD, but I think the internal distractors might be something else. I am not sure though. I know that during the test. He had almost a night and day difference in how he responded to questions that had some sort of visual picture for him to look at verses just having to listen to the question. When the examiner was asking him questions based on a picture he was looking at he was fine. He stayed in his seat and did answered most of the questions correctly. When they moved to another section of the test that didn't have any visuals for him to look at most of the questions he could not give the expected answer. Relational vocabulary was the main section where he had trouble. He had to get up and walk around and use his hands to explain what he was trying to say and often never said the expected answer. When you listened to his answers he gave, you could tell he understood the question and was giving some very thoughtful answers. They just were not the normal answers. It was like he was over thinking the questions. A few times felt confident in his answer and he stayed in his seat and answered the question without the movement.

 

It was really interesting to watch him. You could just see that he knew what he wanted to say, but he just couldn't come up with the right words. I was like he was thinking I know I am not saying what I want so I am going to tell them everything I know about these words. Word retrival is something that I know he struggles with and I think the internal distractors might be because he is having a hard time processing, but I could be wrong about that.

Jan

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks. I have wondered before if he might be ADD, but I think the internal distractors might be something else. I am not sure though. I know that during the test. He had almost a night and day difference in how he responded to questions that had some sort of visual picture for him to look at verses just having to listen to the question. When the examiner was asking him questions based on a picture he was looking at he was fine. He stayed in his seat and did answered most of the questions correctly. When they moved to another section of the test that didn't have any visuals for him to look at most of the questions he could not give the expected answer. Relational vocabulary was the main section where he had trouble. He had to get up and walk around and use his hands to explain what he was trying to say and often never said the expected answer. When you listened to his answers he gave, you could tell he understood the question and was giving some very thoughtful answers. They just were not the normal answers. It was like he was over thinking the questions. A few times felt confident in his answer and he stayed in his seat and answered the question without the movement.

 

It was really interesting to watch him. You could just see that he knew what he wanted to say, but he just couldn't come up with the right words. I was like he was thinking I know I am not saying what I want so I am going to tell them everything I know about these words. Word retrival is something that I know he struggles with and I think the internal distractors might be because he is having a hard time processing, but I could be wrong about that.

Jan

 

 

Jan,

 

Have you asked him if he can "see" letters and words in his head. If he is that highly visual it makes me wonder if he wouldn't benefit from something like Seeing Starts. Now it was created to remediate people who can't see letters and words in their mind, but given it is highly visual...you never know. I own the many (bought it used for $25) and wish I were farther into reading it...

 

Oh and the Sensational Strategies is the program that works on phonological awareness that goes before Recipe for Reading. As soon as I read you post my memory clicked, so helpful when it does it after someone else discovers what you were trying to tell them. :blink:

 

Heather

Link to comment
Share on other sites

...I would love something scripted, but Barton is out of the budget at the moment. I have looked at SPIRE, PAF, Recipe for Reading, and Wilson. Are there any others I should consider?

Look into LiPS by Lindamood-Bell. The LiPS program uses the Socratic method to help develop phonemic awareness through discovering the way mouths make the sounds of our language. It then moves onto teaching reading from there. Barton recommends the first part of the LiPS program if a potential students can't pass the Barton pre-screening. Parts of the Barton program look very much like the middle and later parts LiPS. I would suggest taking the Barton tutor screening on-line to make sure you're own phonemic awareness is adequate too. Ideally it takes training to learn how to implement the LiPS program, but I got by without training by studying the manual. I also bought their manipulatives, but someone who can only afford the manual could probably make the manipulatives.

 

Someone else mentioned Seeing Stars, which is also developed by Lindamood-Bell. Concepts from Seeing Stars can be combined with the LiPS program fairly easily. They compliment each other nicely.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Look into LiPS by Lindamood-Bell. The LiPS program uses the Socratic method to help develop phonemic awareness through discovering the way mouths make the sounds of our language. It then moves onto teaching reading from there. Barton recommends the first part of the LiPS program if a potential students can't pass the Barton pre-screening. Parts of the Barton program look very much like the middle and later parts LiPS. I would suggest taking the Barton tutor screening on-line to make sure you're own phonemic awareness is adequate too. Ideally it takes training to learn how to implement the LiPS program, but I got by without training by studying the manual. I also bought their manipulatives, but someone who can only afford the manual could probably make the manipulatives.

 

Someone else mentioned Seeing Stars, which is also developed by Lindamood-Bell. Concepts from Seeing Stars can be combined with the LiPS program fairly easily. They compliment each other nicely.

 

I know that LIPS works on phonemic awareness as well as articulation. I wonder how the phonemic awareness activities LIPS compare to what is in Sensational Strategies.

 

I have not looked at Seeing Stars. I will have to look at it.

 

Jan

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you see other signs of processing issues, etc. it might be worth an evaluation. My dd has the same thing. Her speech is not fluent and can be very very disfluent but it is not a typical stuttering. She ended up having ADD as well as complex partial seizures. Meds have made a big difference for her.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know that LIPS works on phonemic awareness as well as articulation. I wonder how the phonemic awareness activities LIPS compare to what is in Sensational Strategies.

 

I have not looked at Seeing Stars. I will have to look at it.

 

Jan

 

Jan,

 

I think they are probably totally different. I assume SS works on learning the sounds of letters, using multi-sensory methods. Then works towards beginning reading. Obviously I haven't used the program, so I don't know how they teach the sound. I doubt there is a focus on how the mouth moves to make the sound. More likely there is work with seeing, hearing, touching and speaking sounds.

 

LiPS begins with activities on hearing, then moves on categorizing letters based on how the mouth moves to make those sound. At this point you don't even have to use the symbols. I do, but it is not essential, they can be introduced later. For example you start with the /p/ sound and walk the child through how it feels to say the sound. You look at whether it is vocalized or not (not in this case), then you give it a label. Lip Popper is recommended, but anything that describes how the mouth moves to make the sound is acceptable as long as you know what you will use and are consistent in using it. Next you find another sound that uses the same mouth movements. In this case it is /b/, and this time it is vocalized. So /p/ and /b/ are your vocalized and unvocalized lip popper pair. The program continues to categorize brothers, then moves on to cousins. Cousins are sounds that are made close to the same, but also have some differences. Like Nose sounds. /m/, /n/, /ng/ all use the nose, but m is totally close and then each of the other sounds opens the mouth more. From there you introduce borrowers, letters that uses sound from other letters. Then you move on to vowels. From there you start the same hearing type exercises in the Barton screening, where you start with combination that have the most difference between their sounds, and then work towards sound that are very similar in sound. You continue to use the labels and talk to the child about how the mouth if forming sounds when they get one wrong. You can exaggerate mouth movements when needed to give the child visual clues as to which sound is being used. From there it does move into learning to reading. Like most o/g programs I have seen it is based on syllable rules. By the way review is generally done with games. My ds plays a go fish type game weekly and bingo (actually everyone has to play bingo). :D

 

My 3rd dd can pass the Barton screening, but still struggles some days to hear specific sounds. /e/ and /i/ are two of the worst, and yet this isn't a problem every day. I am taking her through LiPS because while she can get by and learn to cope with not hearing the difference she will be better off if she can learn the difference. LiPS is the best shot at teaching her the differences between sound, and has labels and visual clues I can use long term when it comes up again.

 

The one thing I personally don't care for in looking at SS is the pictures they use. While it does aid in teaching the child a sound, it can then later make the child dependent on recalling the picture in order to remember the sound. That takes extra time. Not all kids have problems with this, but I personally prefer to eliminate all picture clues and just put in the extra time required up front to create and instant recall of the sound for the letter. I would personally replace those cards with something else that didn't have pictures if I used the program.

 

Heather

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jan,

 

 

My 3rd dd can pass the Barton screening, but still struggles some days to hear specific sounds. /e/ and /i/ are two of the worst, and yet this isn't a problem every day. I am taking her through LiPS because while she can get by and learn to cope with not hearing the difference she will be better off if she can learn the difference. LiPS is the best shot at teaching her the differences between sound, and has labels and visual clues I can use long term when it comes up again.

 

 

Nah, Heather. Just move to the south where there *is* no difference.:tongue_smilie::lol:

 

Just kidding!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nah, Heather. Just move to the south where there *is* no difference.:tongue_smilie::lol:

 

Just kidding!

 

:smilielol5:

 

Actually my dh gets in moods where he thinks moving to the sound would be wonderful. He has even researched jobs. We both are native Oregonians who have traveled very little, so I would be surprised if it ever really happened, but it is fun to talk about through!

 

Heather

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think they are probably totally different. I assume SS works on learning the sounds of letters, using multi-sensory methods. Then works towards beginning reading. Obviously I haven't used the program, so I don't know how they teach the sound. I doubt there is a focus on how the mouth moves to make the sound. More likely there is work with seeing, hearing, touching and speaking sounds.

 

LiPS begins with activities on hearing, then moves on categorizing letters based on how the mouth moves to make those sound. ...

Siloam, your post over-viewing the LiPS program is great. I'm unfamiliar with the Sensational Strategies program that Jan mentioned.

 

Regarding Seeing Stars by Lindamood-Bell, I bought the Seeing Stars manual and a few of their other SS materials too. While SS works to develop phonemic awareness, it's not nearly as intense as the LiPS program. The SS manual mention the LiPS letter lables, and an instructor familiar with both programs could add them as needed. Lindamood-Bell clinics, speech therapist, parents and/or tutors need to screen students phonemic awareness to determine which program to begin, (just as the Barton program screens, which is how I stumbled onto LiPS and Lindamood-Bell in the first place.)

 

Seeing Stars incorporates visual imagery to help children picture the letters and words inside their minds. For instance, if doing this along with LiPS the SS portion asks the child to picture the letter in his mind then write the letter in the air. Like both LiPS and Barton, it works with manipulatives to show words in patterns like CVC, CCVCC, etc.

 

While SS teaches phonics and phonemic awareness with individual letters, phenomes and syllables--it overlaps into also teaching sight words. It does NOT advocate exclusive use of sight words as in "whole language", but the author points out that good readers can read quickly because they don't need to sound out each word and knowing phonics alone isn't enough (enuf) for spelling. It identifies the 500-1000 most common English words and teaches rapid reading of those words. That portion of the program is very different from other programs for dyslexia. (Many children with dyslexia recognize words only by sight--which is not desirable and not what the SS program encourages either.)

 

Seeing Stars also offers simple workbooks that provide definitions and contextual use of the most common words. Again it works to help with imagery, this time with imaging the meaning of common words. I know that the Davis method also works to make sure children understand the meaning of those many small, common words.

 

______________________

 

After writing all that...We're not far into Barton. I don't know how most O-G based programs handle common sight words, (particular the ones that aren't phonetic?) And how do they handle words with multiple meanings that may confuse some children who may be prone to dyslexia?? I'm interested in knowing that, if anyone can enlighten me.

Edited by merry gardens
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Siloam, your post over-viewing the LiPS program is great. I'm unfamiliar with the Sensational Strategies program that Jan mentioned.

 

Regarding Seeing Stars by Lindamood-Bell, I bought the Seeing Stars manual and a few of their other SS materials too. While SS works to develop phonemic awareness, it's not nearly as intense as the LiPS program. The SS manual mention the LiPS letter lables, and an instructor familiar with both programs could add them as needed. Lindamood-Bell clinics, speech therapist, parents and/or tutors need to screen students phonemic awareness to determine which program to begin, (just as the Barton program screens, which is how I stumbled onto LiPS and Lindamood-Bell in the first place.)

 

Seeing Stars incorporates visual imagery to help children picture the letters and words inside their minds. For instance, if doing this along with LiPS the SS portion asks the child to picture the letter in his mind then write the letter in the air. Like both LiPS and Barton, it works with manipulatives to show words in patterns like CVC, CCVCC, etc.

 

While SS teaches phonics and phonemic awareness with individual letters, phenomes and syllables--it overlaps into also teaching sight words. It does NOT advocate exclusive use of sight words as in "whole language", but the author points out that good readers can read quickly because they don't need to sound out each word and knowing phonics alone isn't enough (enuf) for spelling. It identifies the 500-1000 most common English words and teaches rapid reading of those words. That portion of the program is very different from other programs for dyslexia. (Many children with dyslexia recognize words only by sight--which is not desirable and not what the SS program encourages either.)

 

Seeing Stars also offers simple workbooks that provide definitions and contextual use of the most common words. Again it works to help with imagery, this time with imaging the meaning of common words. I know that the Davis method also works to make sure children understand the meaning of those many small, common words.

 

______________________

 

After writing all that...We're not far into Barton. I don't know how most O-G based programs handle common sight words, (particular the ones that aren't phonetic?) And how do they handle words with multiple meanings that may confuse some children who may be prone to dyslexia?? I'm interested in knowing that, if anyone can enlighten me.

 

 

Merry Gardens,

 

Thanks for your review of SS. I actually recently bought the manual myself, but haven't had the time to read much of it. Question for you: Does SS include more hands on work than just the air writing? I kinda got the feeling from the first few chapters that the author expected it to be used with LiPS not as a stand alone program. Though I know it is sold as that.

 

Heather

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This thread has been great for me. I think LIPS would be good for my son. I just need to convince hubby of that. I still not sure about Seeing Stars. My son says that he can see the letters in his head, but I am not sure if understood what I was asking. He still sounds out words that we have worked on many times. I did recently put some of them on flashcards and that seems to be helping. I guess I will think about it some more.

 

I know Barton recommends LIPS if a child cannot pass the pre-screeing. If you go through all of LIPS would you still start with Level 1 of Barton. I don't know for sure if we will head into Barton, but it is one I am considering.

 

Jan

Link to comment
Share on other sites

... This thread has been great for me. I think LIPS would be good for my son. I just need to convince hubby of that. I still not sure about Seeing Stars....

I know Barton recommends LIPS if a child cannot pass the pre-screeing. If you go through all of LIPS would you still start with Level 1 of Barton....

You might be able to skip to a different level if the child has prior Orton Gillingham based tutoring. See the first response on Barton website's frequently asked questions http://www.bartonreading.com/levels.html#faq

I didn't do that--my kindergartener and I are doing Barton together, while I'm doing LiPS with my 8 yo. and incorporating some of the SS program with him.

 

Honestly I'm not sold on Seeing Stars as an exclusive program either. I may be wrong, but I don't think SS qualifies as an O-G program. My son needs significantly more help with phonemic awareness than SS would give him. Before starting the LiPS program, he could not distinguish the difference between numerous phenomes. That affected not only his reading but also his speech. I took him to speech therapists previously who evaluated his speech and determined it was within the range of normal, so he never qualified for speech therapy. But I could hear he often didn't say words correctly. That's finally improving with LiPS.

 

To answer Heather's previous question, as far as I can tell SS does more than writing letters in the air, but writing letters or spelling words in the imagination seems a big part of it. I mixed some SS concepts with LiPS--but we mostly focus on LiPS. My son has a very small sight vocabulary, plus he has trouble understanding the meaning of some common words. For those reasons, I like the SS vocabulary and spelling workbook for him. Plus, while I'm trying to help him with his phonemic awareness, I want him making some progress in reading actual words and having a workbook that he can do. The sight words and workbooks are the portions of the SS, (plus imaging the letters and air writing while doing LiPS), that I incorporated into working with my son.

Edited by merry gardens
Link to comment
Share on other sites

He is a very wiggly boy when it comes to reading. He has told me that reading is hard.

 

I have a son who has had to overcome sensory integration issues in order to read. Has anyone suggested to you that he might have sensory integration disorder/dysfunction? You might check your local library for the book Out of Sync Child to see if he sounds like one of the children they describe in the book.

 

My son's occupational therapist suggested that wiggles can be controlled by gum chewing, sitting on a therapy ball, or using a fidget while expecting this child to sit still. (A fidget is a small manipulative toy like a squishy ball or rubber finger puppet, etc., that can be manipulated in his fingers without having to move his whole body around.) My son was unofficially "labeled" at age 4, and with some quick checking of different sensory tools, we found that he needs to take frequent breaks to get deep sensory input. It seems to make his neurological "wiring" work again. Things that work for him are pushups (he could do 20 of them at age 6, progressing to clap-push-ups at age 7), crossovers (requires the body to use left and right brain to accomplish this), windmills, etc.

 

This may absolutely not be what you're dealing with, but in the event that this sounds familiar, you may want to check into it now rather than later.

 

Blessings to you on this journey,

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...