Christians : how do you feel about celebrating Halloween?

[asta]

It's bedtime for me, so I really can't fact check any of this post - but it completely flies in the face of the anti-Halloween announcement the Vatican made today.

 

A

 

I didn't read all the replies, so sorry if this was brought up, but the origins of Halloween are actually more Christian than you think. I'm Christian (Catholic) and know much about the holiday and it's origins - hence I have no ill feelings about celebrating it and being a part of it.

 

According to an article in Catholic Parent magazine, "...Halloween is on October 31 because of a pope, and its observances are the result of medieval Catholic piety. It’s true that the ancient Celts of Ireland and Britain celebrated a minor festival on October 31--as they did on the last day of most other months of the year. However, Halloween falls on the last day of October because the Feast of All Saints, or "All Hallows," falls on November 1. The feast in honor of all the saints in heaven used to be celebrated on May 13, but Pope Gregory III (d. 741) moved it to November 1, the dedication day of All Saints Chapel in St. Peter’s at Rome. Later, in the 840s, Pope Gregory IV commanded that All Saints be observed everywhere. And so the holy day spread to Ireland.

 

The day before was the feast’s evening vigil, "All Hallows Even," or "Hallowe’en." In those days Halloween didn’t have any special significance for Christians or for long-dead Celtic pagans.

 

In 998, St. Odilo, the abbot of the powerful monastery of Cluny in southern France, added a celebration on November 2. This was a day of prayer for the souls of all the faithful departed. This feast, called All Souls Day, spread from France to the rest of Europe.

 

So now the Church had feasts for all those in heaven and all those in purgatory. What about those in the other place? It seems Irish Catholic peasants wondered about the unfortunate souls in hell. After all, if the souls in hell are left out when we celebrate those in heaven and purgatory, they might be unhappy enough to cause trouble. So it became customary to bang pots and pans on All Hallows Even to let the ****ed know they were not forgotten. Thus, in Ireland at least, all the dead came to be remembered--even if the clergy were not terribly sympathetic to Halloween and never allowed All ****ed Day into the church calendar.

 

But that still isn’t our celebration of Halloween. Our traditions on this holiday center on dressing up in fanciful costumes, which isn’t Irish at all. Rather, this custom arose in France during the 14th and 15th centuries. Late medieval Europe was hit by repeated outbreaks of the bubonic plague--the Black Death--and it lost about half its population. It is not surprising that Catholics became more concerned about the afterlife.

 

More Masses were said on All Souls Day, and artistic representations were devised to remind everyone of their own mortality. We know these representations as the danse macabre, or "dance of death," which was commonly painted on the walls of cemeteries and shows the devil leading a daisy chain of people--popes, kings, ladies, knights, monks, peasants, lepers, etc.--into the tomb. Sometimes the dance was presented on All Souls Day itself as a living tableau with people dressed up in the garb of various states of life.

 

But the French dressed up on All Souls, not Halloween; and the Irish, who had Halloween, did not dress up. How the two became mingled probably happened first in the British colonies of North America during the 1700s, when Irish and French Catholics began to intermarry. The Irish focus on hell gave the French masquerades an even more macabre twist.

 

"Treat or treat" is perhaps the oddest and most American addition to Halloween and is the unwilling contribution of English Catholics.

During the penal period of the 1500s to the 1700s in England, Catholics had no legal rights. They could not hold office and were subject to fines, jail and heavy taxes. It was a capital offense to say Mass, and hundreds of priests were martyred.

 

Occasionally, English Catholics resisted, sometimes foolishly. One of the most foolish acts of resistance was a plot to blow up the Protestant King James I and his Parliament with gunpowder. This was supposed to trigger a Catholic uprising against the oppressors. The ill-conceived Gunpowder Plot was foiled on November 5, 1605, when the man guarding the gunpowder, a reckless convert named Guy Fawkes, was captured and arrested. He was hanged; the plot fizzled.

 

November 5, Guy Fawkes Day, became a great celebration in England, and so it remains. During the penal periods, bands of revelers would put on masks and visit local Catholics in the dead of night, demanding beer and cakes for their celebration: trick or treat!

 

Guy Fawkes Day arrived in the American colonies with the first English settlers. But by the time of the American Revolution, old King James and Guy Fawkes had pretty much been forgotten. Trick or treat, though, was too much fun to give up, so eventually it moved to October 31, the day of the Irish-French masquerade. And in America, trick or treat wasn’t limited to Catholics.

 

The mixture of various immigrant traditions we know as Halloween had become a fixture in the United States by the early 1800s. To this day, it remains unknown in Europe, even in the countries from which some of the customs originated.

 

But what about witches? Well, they are one of the last additions. The greeting card industry added them in the late 1800s. Halloween was already "ghoulish," so why not give witches a place on greeting cards? The Halloween card failed (although it has seen a recent resurgence in popularity), but the witches stayed.

 

So too, in the late 1800s, ill-informed folklorists introduced the jack-o’-lantern. They thought that Halloween was Druidic and pagan in origin. Lamps made from turnips (not pumpkins) had been part of ancient Celtic harvest festivals, so they were translated to the American Halloween celebration.

 

The next time someone claims that Halloween is a cruel trick to lure your children into devil worship, I suggest you tell them the real origin of All Hallows Eve and invite them to discover its Christian significance, along with the two greater and more important Catholic festivals that follow it."

[Barb_]

It's bedtime for me, so I really can't fact check any of this post - but it completely flies in the face of the anti-Halloween announcement the Vatican made today.

 

A

 

Actually, growing up the in the Catholic faith and in Catholic schools we were taught similar things about the origins of Halloween. It seems the Catholic immigrants embraced Halloween traditions while Europe didn't do much with it until recently. According to this article: USA Today and others, Europe seems to be responding to the spread of American culture as much as anything else. I don't see the Pope decrying day of the dead.

 

The picture accompanying the article I linked is of a particularly hideous costume. If the pope saw my daughter dressed as Pooh, I doubt he'd be as concerned. :tongue_smilie:

 

Barb

Edited October 31, 2009 by Barb F. PA in AZ

[Guest janainaz]

I just remember the fun of it being a kid. I remember the fun of getting to dress up, trick-or-treating, Halloween parties and bobbing for apples, just the fun stuff. It was innocent.

 

I respect the feelings of other people and understand not all people see things the same way. However, I was watching my son's football coach today who has several kids, a few adopted and one with severe handicaps, and he was really excited about Halloween tonight. He goes all out on decorating his house, has a lot of fun stuff for the kids, and you can see his heart in it. He adores and loves his kids, loves other kids and it just instills in me that what we do is all about the motive of our heart. If you celebrate Halloween with fun and innocence then that is what the holiday represents. If you look to the dark side of anything you will find it, but it's about chosing to see the light in any given situation. At least that is how I feel about it.

[StephanieZ]

I feel great about it. My "The Hag Who Killed Me" (a fiddle tune), "Grim Reaper", and "Wicked Princess" just got in! I am all for it.

[HRAAB]

It's bedtime for me, so I really can't fact check any of this post - but it completely flies in the face of the anti-Halloween announcement the Vatican made today.

 

A

 

Do you have a link for that? So many times when we read, "The Vatican said...." it's actually an individual speaking, not the Magisterium. Big difference. If an individual made that statement, they are not speaking 'authoritatively' for the Catholic Church.

 

I'm out the door to do some trick or treating myself so I'll look it up later.

[AngelaNYC]

It's bedtime for me, so I really can't fact check any of this post - but it completely flies in the face of the anti-Halloween announcement the Vatican made today.

 

A

 

 

I know. It surprised me. I guess we should also do away with Christmas trees, Yule logs, mistletoe, holly, wreaths, Easter eggs, Easter bunnies, and Sunday worship too. They're all rooted in pagan beliefs. :glare:

[Lovedtodeath]

 

I didn't read all the replies, so sorry if this was brought up, but the origins of Halloween are actually more Christian than you think. I'm Christian (Catholic) and know much about the holiday and it's origins - hence I have no ill feelings about celebrating it and being a part of it.

I was wondering about that. Very interesting, thank you.

[mommaduck]

I know. It surprised me. I guess we should also do away with Christmas trees, Yule logs, mistletoe, holly, wreaths, Easter eggs, Easter bunnies, and Sunday worship too. They're all rooted in pagan beliefs. :glare:

Some have.

[Lovedtodeath]

I just want to note that the whole idea of a harvest party sounds far more pagan to this pagan than does a Halloween party. All the trappings of these "harvest parties" are very steeped in pagan symbolism and lore. I could go into full detail, but just google if you're truly interested. On the short note: Samhain is the celebration of the last harvest, and the end of the "light" part of the year (longer days). So the idea of churches celebrating harvest (in lieu of the more common and now very secularized Halloween) looks like a more pagan statement than I am sure they intended it to be.

The ancient Israelites had harvest festivals that involved grain offerings and feasting. I have no problem with copying them. What specifically about a harvest party is pagan? I think I have heard something about a cornucopia (though of course, we avoid it).

 

I actually do not know anyone personally who has a harvest party or attends one... just curious how celebrating the harvest is pagan.

Edited November 1, 2009 by Lovedtodeath

[Kari C in SC]

The Lord is more concerned with what is in our hearts than the date on the calendar. I can truthfully say that there is nothing wicked in my heart that that motivates me to choose costumes for my children, and take them around our neighborhood to interact with our neighbors and get some sweet treats. The fact that some have done wicked things on this day does not have anything to do with what we do on Halloween. We don't celebrate death or the occult, and don't reflect those things in the kids' costumes or our decorations. While I respect other Christian's decisions to not participate in Halloween because of its origins, just as I respect Christians who don't celebrate Christmas or Easter for the same reason, I think it's improper to judge other Christians who decide to participate in Halloween with their families. God is not in heaven fretting over my son's cowboy costume and Snickers bars, and I think other Christians would be wise to follow His example.

 

This is very well written. Thank you!

[SquirrellyMama]

Actually, I think you and I are making the same point here. We celebrate that he chose to come to earth as a mortal baby, live a mortal life and be our Redeemer. But we don't sing Happy Birthday to Jesus or in anyway say that this is His birthday. I find it confusing to tell children that we know when Jesus' birthday is and to have birthday parties.

 

I do agree with your second paragraph too, by the way. I have nothing to add so I'll just hold up this :iagree:

 

I think our ideas are similar but I really don't have a problem calling it his birthday. We are celebrating his birth eventhough we don't know the exact date. No problem :001_smile:

[SquirrellyMama]

I just remember the fun of it being a kid. I remember the fun of getting to dress up, trick-or-treating, Halloween parties and bobbing for apples, just the fun stuff. It was innocent.

 

 

I have such great memories of Halloween as a kids. We went to Catholic school so we had the next day off. My brother and I would get up at 5am with our bags of candy and watch cartoons while my parents slept. It was so great. My brother and I didn't get along all that well so it was nice to have that time with him.

[Scarlett]

I completely understand families who have chosen not to participate. What I DON'T understand are churches holding "harvest parties"...they are holding HALLOWEEN parties and giving them a different name.

 

This reminds me of something.....thinking, thinking....Hmmmm......

[Paula in PA]

The ancient Israelites had harvest festivals that involved grain offerings and feasting. I have no problem with copying them. What specifically about a harvest party is pagan? I think I have heard something about a cornucopia (though of course, we avoid it).

 

I actually do not know anyone personally who has a harvest party or attends one... just curious how celebrating the harvest is pagan.

 

Samhain was a harvest festival. That's what was meant. It was the final harvest before winter and the end of the year, and thus an important holiday for them. There is very, very little about the current version of Halloween that is even remotely like what the Celts originally did for Samhain. The harvest festivals some churches are doing is much closer to what they did do.

 

Nobody is claiming that those churches are practicing pagan rites, just that it is more like what Samhain originally was, a harvest festival, than the current secular version of Halloween.

 

BTW, I found your final comment rude and uncalled for. Unless you are very well versed in all Pagan beliefs and worship rites, you had no right to include something like that.

Edited November 1, 2009 by Paula in PA

[Lovedtodeath]

I am sorry. I didn't mean offense.

 

The fact is that since the God of the Bible authorized harvest festivals, having one does not constitute imitating pagans.

Edited November 1, 2009 by Lovedtodeath

[LibraryLover]

Sukkot is a harvest festival. http://www.jewfaq.org/holiday5.htm

[BikeBookBread]

This reminds me of something.....thinking, thinking....Hmmmm......

 

:confused: I'm confused...

[Audrey]

I am sorry. I was using pagan as a catch all for any religions other than those worshiping my God, and some religions definitely engaged in *rgies in order to stimulate the gods to do the same and thus make the earth productive. I didn't mean that they all did. I was trying to make a distinction between a harvest festival that would simulate false religion and a harvest festival that would simulate true religion (of course, IMO so that I don't get jumped on for those terms). I will be glad to edit it out of both posts if you do the same.

 

 

I didn't take your post as rude, Carmen. I understand where you're coming from.

 

Specifically, I was referring to some of the previous posters who had described a few aspects of their harvest parties. Realizing that not everyone's parties had the same activities, it just seemed, to me, that many of the activities were very Samhain-like. I know that was not how the organizers meant them, but to someone who does celebrate Samhain (not Halloween -- big difference) those things seem ironic.

 

FWIW, I'm not bothered by the idea of anyone celebrating any aspect of the harvest in any way they see (legally) fit. I am non-deist and worship only Nature directly. I am also (with my dh) a farmer. So I am happy when people take the time to stop and gratefully acknowledge the contribution of Mother Earth and her stewards, no matter what their intent in doing so.

 

Oh, and no orgieS here. One in a night is exhausting enough. ;) :D

[QueenCat]

For us, we have fun with Halloween as it is today, a fun time to dress up and be silly. We don't consider it's origins as that has nothing to do with what it is today. And yes, we are Christians. We believe that Jesus died on the cross for us, and that has nothing to do with having fun with Halloween.

[Ritsumei]

As I see it, putting aside the origins of Halloween and even my beliefs, because Christianity has adopted so many pagan traditions, Halloween is not the kind of holiday I want encourage because of what it is today in the way that we celebrate it here in the U.S. It is not a tribute to anything worthwhile. It flaunts mischief and even evil. It is not an honorable holiday--again, as it is celebrated by the majority of people today.

 

 

:iagree::iagree:My husband and I downplayed it this year for this exact reason.

[Lovedtodeath]

I didn't take your post as rude, Carmen. I understand where you're coming from.

Whew! thanks.

Specifically, I was referring to some of the previous posters who had described a few aspects of their harvest parties. Realizing that not everyone's parties had the same activities, it just seemed, to me, that many of the activities were very Samhain-like.

Is there a good link that would describe a Samhain festival?

Oh, and no orgieS here. One in a night is exhausting enough. ;) :D

:lol: Well, I thought, one a night for a week or one night a year for many years would constitute a plural.:001_huh:

[Paula in PA]

I am sorry. I didn't mean offense.

 

The fact is that since the God of the Bible authorized harvest festivals, having one does not constitute imitating pagans.

 

I'm sorry, too. I have a never-ending cold that's making me a lot more touchy than I like.

 

I'm not saying that these harvest festivals are imitating Samhain, just that it has more in common with that type of celebration than how Halloween is celebrated. Harvest festivals are universal themes, so it makes sense, to me anyways, that any one of them would sort of resemble the others. The particulars will be different, but the basic idea is the same.

[asta]

I retract.

 

Although widely reported (feel free to google), I am unable to confirm the report from the semi-official Vatican newspaper "L'Osservatore Romano" on the Halloween story, as they are only publishing the first page of their paper online.

 

My apologies. That's what I get for posting while tired.

 

 

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