Janice in NJ fans...check out her comment...

[Jane in NC]

on SWB's new blog. Both Susan and Janice give me food for thought. If you are like-minded, you won't want to miss these.

 

Happy Friday to all.

Jane

[MIch elle]

Did I miss something? :confused:

 

Oh, I went back & looked at the comments & see it now.

[Kfamily]

That was very interesting! Thanks for sharing it, Jane.

[Pam L in Mid Tenn]

Wow.. Janice did a great job. I could have written that. She expresses exactly what I'm feeling. I'm ending up the last years of homeschooling VERY differenlty from my plan.

[lionfamily1999]

Not so much a fan of Janice in NJ, but I did enjoy the blog and the comments that came after. Thanks for sharing :)

[8filltheheart]

I agree with much of what Janice wrote. Homeschooling my younger kids is a completely different scenerio than high school. I do not like the options for high school and simply do the best I can. (I believe at this point, my attempts are superior to the other options available around me.)

 

I am completely disillusioned with online classes. I am no longer a believer or advocate for them. My experience is that they have been ok, but nothing stellar and definitely no better than what I can provide on my own.

 

Different curricula choices are definitely not equal.

 

I feel at a complete loss in guiding some of my children in course selections/future aspirations. What course load should a child who vascillates between culinary arts and forensic science actually take??? How about an almost adult child that behaves like a young child with unrealistic goals?

 

How about the whole "self-educating/self-teaching" argument? How on earth do kids move beyond their own comprehension level w/o any challenge to their perspective? (This is an argument in the homeschooling community that I have never understood.)

 

Pat answers might sound like reasonable solutions, but our homeschool experience has been that every yr presents its own new challenges and that there aren't always simple answers and that even our past experiences don't necessarily reveal a path.

 

I simply grin inwardly when I listen to new homeschoolers that have all the answers. I sure wish I did!!

[Janice in NJ]

Awwww shucks, Jane. Fans? :001_unsure:

 

Don't you hate rereading something that you have written?

And wish that you had said ___ and ___ and _____.

And fixed the rest of the GLARING errors (I did fix some; I'm such a HACK!).

Makes we want to go brush my teeth again ... but I don't have time for that either so once will have to be enough for this morning.

 

Peace! :001_smile:

Janice

[PeterPan]

I read through all this, and can I ask: what is it you wish you had understood better or planned better? Or is it EVERYTHING? Or is it that WTM is a bit vague for high school and idealistic, not matching up to the reality of your students? Or is it that the tone changes? You know, nobody romances teaching high school for homeschool. It's always elementary school, unit studies, animals, that type thing. Nobody says yippee we get to study rhetoric and aristotle and history and write term papers! But what advice would you give to those who are a couple years away who have some time to think, time to prepare? I've just been of the "it will all work out" mindset, but it sounds like you're saying it doesn't and that you end up feeling caught in a tornado more than anything, just going and whirling without time to even stop and change course. Any advice to those coming behind? :)

[Miss Marple]

I simply grin inwardly when I listen to new homeschoolers that have all the answers. I sure wish I did!!

 

I can so relate to this! I've been asked several times to present workshops for our support group or other area groups because "you know so much about the upper levels and what's available". But I keep answering that I will simply end up discouraging the younger idealistic homeschoolers. We do this (high school) because it's the best option around here. If I had other options (public/private) that I felt superior to what I do, I just might pursue those. And it wouldn't take a lot to be superior to what I do :-)

[JennW in SoCal]

How about the whole "self-educating/self-teaching" argument? How on earth do kids move beyond their own comprehension level w/o any challenge to their perspective? (This is an argument in the homeschooling community that I have never understood.)

 

 

:iagree:

 

It was a rough week here on that front as my ds is on a robotics team run by parents who take a very hands-off approach. "It is the kid's team, they should run it" and yet how can we expect them to run an organization successfully, much less design a competitive robot without guidance, coaching and mentoring? Without a certain level of expectations, much less responsibilities, spelled out for them?

 

Did any of you read the Salon article? I did several weeks ago, and found the author and his wife awfully sweet and innocent, unschooling their little ones. Like Janice, I thought about how different homeschooling gets to be as the little ones grow into gangly, smelly teens with minds of their own. I wonder how the author and his wife will handle that. What really struck me, though was the comments section. It really upsetting as it was full of vitriolic and vicious attacks on homeschooling by ignorant, anonymous people. Those comments made me think, for the first time in a long time, that homeschooling is still on the fringe. It surprised me, frankly.

 

These high school years are a lonely time, as we try to stick to our homeschool philosophy, while adapting to fit the needs and aspirations of our kids. And the stakes are so much higher than they were when our kids were 5. Each teen age homeschooler is going down a unique path that is different from that of their homeschooled friends, and they are surrounded by the uniform lock-step path of their public school peers. Each of my boys will have had completely different high school courses -- I'm out on the limb with each of them, and there are no other parents out there with me! At least not on the same branch....

 

But I'm rambling on because it was a rough week for me, one in which I often thought of this board and how grateful I am for it!!

[JennW in SoCal]

Oh, Elizabeth you ask a profound question!

 

And so many have asked similar questions on this board in the last year -- what do I need to know to prepare? Maybe we old timers ought to think about this and give an honest answer.

 

I do love homeschooling high school because I enjoy the young adults that my kids have become (or is in the process of becoming). But it is tough, and lonely and the stakes are high -- as I just posted a couple of minutes ago.

 

I'm going to think about this a bit, and hope others will give some of their usual thoughtful comments. The mundane realities of life are about to claim my attention -- groceries, laundry....

[Cedarmom]

Janice's comments struck a chord with me. I loved the part about normal students who would rather sleep-in and play video games than investigate string theory. My son is a smart, motivated , wonderful young man. But given his choice, he would still rather play video games than school. Back when he was young I did have visions of him never even wanting to watch tv and video games would of course be no interest for him compared to the thrill of calculus. :001_smile: So, the homeschooing journey has not always gone as planned, but it has been good.

[Holly IN]

Janice's comments struck a chord with me. I loved the part about normal students who would rather sleep-in and play video games than investigate string theory. My son is a smart, motivated , wonderful young man. But given his choice, he would still rather play video games than school. Back when he was young I did have visions of him never even wanting to watch tv and video games would of course be no interest for him compared to the thrill of calculus. :001_smile: So, the homeschooing journey has not always gone as planned, but it has been good.

 

DITTO!!!! My high schooler prefers facebook over school work. It is very depressing to hear that other homeschooled high schoolers love love their school work and spends all day and all night doing it. :glare: I have often wondered what I did WRONG!!!!

 

It is so nice to read about normal homeschooled students who prefer to play video games/facebook/tv over school no matter how interesting I make it. So THANK YOU for brightening my day!

 

I agree that as a parent homeschooling their high schoolers is a very lonely and hard thing to go through. You truly are alone because nobody else wants to hear you because you are taking the hard road while others are taking the easy ones especially those that homeschooled up to 8th grade then sent their kids to public school. They totally ignore me now that they do not homeschool anymore. So both sides just leave you alone. VERY FRUSTRATING!!

 

Thanks for these posts!! I love them. Thank you also for posting the link to the blog about this. hooray!!!:D

Holly

[elegantlion]

Excellent post, comment by Janice, and comments here, much food for thought.

[teacalm]

I am completely disillusioned with online classes. I am no longer a believer or advocate for them. My experience is that they have been ok, but nothing stellar and definitely no better than what I can provide on my own.

 

Different curricula choices are definitely not equal.

 

 

 

Sad, but true. If there is anyone who wanted desperately for online classes to work, I'm it. I enrolled ds in Latin, math, literature, history, and logic classes. You know what I ended up doing? Pulled him out (except for one online lit and writing class this year). I tried this too with my younger girls. They all said they wanted me to teach them instead. It seems like the online class does not offer new instruction that I, otherwise, would have learn myself just going through the book. I still have to read up on my own in order to help my kids do their assignments. I emailed an online teacher once if he/she can give more thorough instructions. The reply I got was the student expects to know the material but this class was an introduction to this subject. I make my kids ask the teacher every question they ask me. This is the reason why the online teachers are making a lot of feedback. If my kids get their feedbacks on their work, I make them email the teacher to ask how to make their papers better and what to watch out next time. I make the kids ask the teacher how should they have answered instead.

 

To make it short, teaching them myself is the most effective method. The only thing about this is I have to spend a huge amount of time preparing and studying for it. But hey, if it's for my kids, why not? I found this true also to most of the coop classes my kids took. I feel like I would have been better at teaching the classes myself.

[Karen in CO]

:iagree:

 

 

These high school years are a lonely time, as we try to stick to our homeschool philosophy, while adapting to fit the needs and aspirations of our kids. And the stakes are so much higher than they were when our kids were 5. Each teen age homeschooler is going down a unique path that is different from that of their homeschooled friends, and they are surrounded by the uniform lock-step path of their public school peers. Each of my boys will have had completely different high school courses -- I'm out on the limb with each of them, and there are no other parents out there with me! At least not on the same branch....

 

 

 

I was in a meeting with homeschool moms at my dd8's enrichment school this week. I went hoping to find a voice of experience and reason, but found that I was the most experienced one in the room. Everyone smiled when they heard that my ds got into college with that sigh of relief.

 

I have figured out that each of my girls is on her own path and that my experience is only good for helping me to not panic so much about the choices. I've lately come to realize what was so eloquently stated here. There is no well-worn path to homeschool success or even a generally accepted definition of homeschool success.

[Holly IN]

. I make my kids ask the teacher every question they ask me. This is the reason why the online teachers are making a lot of feedback. If my kids get their feedbacks on their work, I make them email the teacher to ask how to make their papers better and what to watch out next time. I make the kids ask the teacher how should they have answered instead.

 

.

 

Very true!! Right now my son is taking one class outside the home which is a combo of Literature, Composition and Worldview/Bible. It has been going great. One little snag, the teacher is not very helpful with my son when he asks her about his reports. He has been making D's and C's on them while he gets an A on everything else. He asks her how he can do better. What does he need to do next time? Also he asked her for some clarification on his 3rd report which is summarizing the 4 chapters in the book they are covering. She refused to answer and told him to look in his assignment sheet as the answer is there. Well, I looked at it and NOPE the answer is not in there. So we had to figure it out by researching. She is very contradictory in her grading from one report to another. VERY FRUSTRATING!!!! However Joshua does like her but is very very depressed over his reports and her comments on the reports. He was very depressed when I picked him up from class. sigh!!!!! I offered to talk to her and my son said NO. So my hands are tied and right now we decided that we need to review summarizing (my instruction in summarizing is different than hers so this is another frustration on my part). I felt this class was worth pursuing because there are lots of group discussions which I feel that I can't reproduce at home. We do everything else at home. He is also in a Debate club as well as the speech portion of the club. That is it!! The rest I am doing at home (and loving it!!!!). Yes, I do want to strangle my son sometimes but you gotta love it!!

 

Holly

[WTMCassandra]

Nobody says yippee we get to study rhetoric and aristotle and history and write term papers!

 

:leaving:

 

Umm, I guess no one except for me. To me, high school will be the payoff, the time to really get to delve into these things. I LOVE that stuff.

 

Except the math and science, which will have to be outsourced. :lol: I'm very unbalanced in my talents.

[Colleen in NS]

it sounds like you're saying it doesn't and that you end up feeling caught in a tornado more than anything, just going and whirling without time to even stop and change course. Any advice to those coming behind? :)

 

These high school years are a lonely time, as we try to stick to our homeschool philosophy, while adapting to fit the needs and aspirations of our kids.

 

Maybe we old timers ought to think about this and give an honest answer.

 

:bigear:

 

Oh, how I adore threads like this. They are few and far between, it seems to me, these days, but they are what keep me coming back.

 

I was in a situation last weekend that rattled my cage, as far as our educational/family choices for our family, and this doesn't happen often for me. Very negative, blatant, condescending vibes came our way, via a significant person to us, and for a few hours I started to question everything. Until I had a good sleep. The next day I was mostly just wishing I had some IRL people (besides very supportive dh) to talk to about these choices along the way. I was wishing I knew some of you IRL, and I was desperately hoping that I could still "access" many of you in a few more years when my oldest is in high school!! Ohpleaseohpleasepleaseplease, old timers, keep checking your PMs at least a few times a month in a few more years, even if you decide to stop frequenting the boards due to life changes as your kids finish up! I *am* afraid of that lonely feeling!

 

I *loved* reading Susan's new blog, and Janice's comment (and the others - others had interesting things to say, too). I think it's going to be an interesting blog.

Edited October 23, 2009 by Colleen in NS

[WTMCassandra]

:bigear:

 

Oh, how I adore threads like this. They are few and far between, it seems to me, these days, but they are what keep me coming back.

 

I was in a situation last weekend that rattled my cage, as far as our educational/family choices for our family, and this doesn't happen often for me. Very negative, blatant vibes came our way, via a significant person to us, and for a few hours I started to question everything. Until I had a good sleep. The next day I was mostly just wishing I had some IRL people (besides very supportive dh) to talk to about these choices along the way. I was wishing I knew some of you IRL, and I was desperately hoping that I could still "access" many of you in a few more years when my oldest is in high school!! Ohpleaseohpleasepleaseplease, old timers, keep checking your PMs at least a few times a month in a few more years, even if you decide to stop frequenting the boards due to life changes as your kids finish up! I *am* afraid of that lonely feeling!

 

I *loved* reading Susan's new blog, and Janice's comment (and the others - others had interesting things to say, too). I think it's going to be an interesting blog.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[elegantlion]

:bigear:

I was wishing I knew some of you IRL, and I was desperately hoping that I could still "access" many of you in a few more years when my oldest is in high school!! Ohpleaseohpleasepleaseplease, old timers, keep checking your PMs at least a few times a month in a few more years, even if you decide to stop frequenting the boards due to life changes as your kids finish up! I *am* afraid of that lonely feeling!

 

:iagree: Perhaps we could bribe them with cookies (or non-sugary treats if preferred). :D

[8filltheheart]

I read through all this, and can I ask: what is it you wish you had understood better or planned better? Or is it EVERYTHING? Or is it that WTM is a bit vague for high school and idealistic, not matching up to the reality of your students? Or is it that the tone changes? You know, nobody romances teaching high school for homeschool. It's always elementary school, unit studies, animals, that type thing. Nobody says yippee we get to study rhetoric and aristotle and history and write term papers! But what advice would you give to those who are a couple years away who have some time to think, time to prepare? I've just been of the "it will all work out" mindset, but it sounds like you're saying it doesn't and that you end up feeling caught in a tornado more than anything, just going and whirling without time to even stop and change course. Any advice to those coming behind? :)

 

Elizabeth, for me it hasn't been a matter of planning. It is more a product of the beast that high school simply is.

 

I am very critical of my own failings in our homeschool b/c I am a firm believer that discussion, interaction, challenging the student's POV, etc are necessary parts of encouraging/developing analytical processes.

 

I am absolutely not well-versed in the majority of the subjects my kids have studied/are studying/or will study in high school. I deeply regret that their exposure is limited by the lack of exposure to people that are truly well-versed in their fields.

 

I don't feel caught in a tornado nor do I feel unable to change courses. Every yr we have to find a routine, etc that works for our family. That part does not phase me in the slightest. It is the trying to ensure my kids have a solid understanding in subject material that my understanding is limited. I am not willing to simply say they know the material b/c they have gone through the textbook and can answer questions and take tests. That definition is a very limited definition of successful learning.

 

I have to pick subjects I am willing to accept that minimal level of education as acceptable and concentrate my time on learning/questioning, etc on just some of their courses. French is a prime example. My dd is motivated to learn French and is learning it the best we can accomodate. But it is definitely subpar to what I want her to have.

 

I don't have enough time to learn French, read her lit, her history her theology, keep up with her chemistry, alg2, etc. It is a full day's work for her. I have to keep up with all my other students and our household as well.

 

I am involved in her daily work. I do attempt to push her beyond where she is.......but at this point, the reality is that her French far exceeds mine, etc.

 

Then there is the entire high school course selection process itself. FOr my oldest it was easy. My next 2.....definitely not. Thankfully, my 4 is following my oldest's route and I know what classes he needs to take. But, even then, he is 2 yrs ahead of where his older brother was at the same age.

 

It just isn't as simple as here is a plan.......follow it. Ever child is unique. Courses are different. Etc. It is just completely different than in the younger yrs where you simply complete the basics and step a little deeper and more advanced a little at a time.

[Jane in NC]

Any advice to those coming behind? :)

 

Well Elizabeth, I fear that given the flexibility that most of us wish to maintain with our homeschooled students (or why else would we be homeschooling?) leads to the unexpected places to which I believe Janice alluded when she wrote:

 

Eventually one of the little ones decides that they aren’t interested in gardening anymore. They start to care about things that I know NOTHING about. The homeschooling literature has the pat answer to that one too. “Find them a mentor, someone to cultivate their natural curiosity.” Hmmm… Great idea. In the beginning. When they are small. But somehow, somewhere THAT simple idea grows until it becomes nearly unmanageable. I said nearly. Almost tipping over the edge of manageable. And still it grows.

 

Having only one child, my solution was to learn along with my son. This worked in the beginning with French. I realized, though, that given other circumstances in my life, I simply could not dedicate the amount of time needed to stay with the program in AP Biology. The content of the modern biology book is far different today from what I learned in my earlier course work. I have coached Envirothon teams, so I could keep my head above water in the Ecology portion, but the molecular stuff was beyond me. Not that I could not learn--I simply did not have the time. Thus my son did the course essentially on his own in 10th grade. Do I recommend this? No. There is something to say about the sense of accomplishment, but the price was dear.

 

I have often regretted not utilizing more online courses, yet the reviews of these courses can be less than stellar. My son is currently taking an online AP Latin course (Virtual Vergil is what I call it) with which I am quite pleased. It may help that my son is accustomed to independent work; having an expert for general guidance and as a resource is precisely what he needed.

 

Into this discussion I toss in the CC concept. Some note that they live near an "excellent" CC; ours is not. But whether the CC has a reputation that is stellar or significantly inferior to similar institutions, bear in mind that not every teacher is excellent or mediocre. My son learned a great deal from his English 111 instructor last semester; his English prof this semester has her moments, but she is not as demanding or inspiring. She is adequate. In fact, I feel that I can manage an "adequate" job at home. What is the advantage of this CC class?

 

Initially sending our students to outside courses brings other benefits. Our students are exposed to people who think differently or maybe like-mindedly (wow--there is someone as odd as me out there!). My son is immensely grateful to have learned how to use software like Blackboard. But our CC has too many students who accept mediocrity as a standard--at this point I worry that my son may succumb to a similar mentality.

 

I sometimes ask friends whose children are in the local high school about the kinds of things that I worry about: Is your student being exposed to enough literature? Are your students doing enough writing, not only in language arts courses, but in other classes? How rigorous is your child's math class? Usually I receive should shrugs or blank stares. Parents tend to trust the local system to do the right thing; I wish that I could trust myself so easily!

 

Returning to Janis's point, I can say that my son has found a mentor who is supervising his senior project. This was good fortune, in part; my son's passionate interest in archaeology helped create immediate bonds with several professionals with whom he has come into contact. So maybe there is something to say about having that bit of flexibility to develop passions...

 

Homeschooling high school is hard. On that many of us will agree.

 

Jane

Edited October 23, 2009 by Jane in NC

[Jane in NC]

:iagree: Perhaps we could bribe them with cookies (or non-sugary treats if preferred). :D

 

Chocolate, Paula. Or maybe a glass of red wine with the way I'm feeling at the moment. It has been a rough week for me, too. Mid-semester blues?

[Janice in NJ]

Oh, Jane. I'm sorry that you're feeling blue.

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

Send me your address? I'll hop in my truck and be there in about..... 13 hours? It would be so worth it if I only could!!!!

 

Off to read a bit here.... looks like there's much to chat about.

 

Peace,

Janice

[LinRTX]

I actually had one outside class for my daughter. She had to write a paper and was graded down on parts of it. When she went to ask the teacher what she needed to do to improve that section since she did not understand what was wrong, the answer was:

 

You are worried about your grade too much and just need to learn the material?!

 

My dd never asked for an explanation again. Why? She was supposed to figure it all out herself I guess. This was not an English/writing class, but if they are going to gade the papers like one they should offer some instruction.

 

Linda

[bugs]

:leaving:

 

Umm, I guess no one except for me. To me, high school will be the payoff, the time to really get to delve into these things. I LOVE that stuff.

 

Except the math and science, which will have to be outsourced. :lol: I'm very unbalanced in my talents.

 

I am the same but opposite:D. I so look forward to the high school years and what we'll learn. But not too excited about the term papers... I am really psyched to teach advanced math and science but may have to outsource Physics and Chemistry for lack of good lab equipment.

[angela in ohio]

I also wish there was more discussion about the realities of homeschooling high school. I used to wonder when I went to homeschool meetings where the more experienced moms were. The only people who seem to have the time to blog, write homeschool articles, go to homeschool meetings, etc. are the moms with younger dc. So I think that is part of the reason we see so much more about the fun times with preschoolers.

 

Making the transition to junior high and now high school classes is a loss of the fun "hang out with other homeschoolers at the park" time, as well as the group classes and activities that made me feel like I wasn't alone in this. I'm so thankful that I raised my dc so that I like them, though, because we spend an awful lot of time together now. :001_smile: Dh is becoming more involved in helping me make decisions and plan now, which is helping, too.

 

I've become homeschool-jaded. I read the Salon article and thought, "those kiddos will be in school by second grade." ;)

[WTMCassandra]

I am the same but opposite:D. I so look forward to the high school years and what we'll learn. But not too excited about the term papers... I am really psyched to teach advanced math and science but may have to outsource Physics and Chemistry for lack of good lab equipment.

 

Whoa! I see from your sig that you are in WA. Where are you? I am in Tri-Cities. Perhaps we could cook up a swap?!

[Stacy in NJ]

I also wish there was more discussion about the realities of homeschooling high school. I used to wonder when I went to homeschool meetings where the more experienced moms were. The only people who seem to have the time to blog, write homeschool articles, go to homeschool meetings, etc. are the moms with younger dc. So I think that is part of the reason we see so much more about the fun times with preschoolers.

 

Making the transition to junior high and now high school classes is a loss of the fun "hang out with other homeschoolers at the park" time, as well as the group classes and activities that made me feel like I wasn't alone in this. I'm so thankful that I raised my dc so that I like them, though, because we spend an awful lot of time together now. :001_smile: Dh is becoming more involved in helping me make decisions and plan now, which is helping, too.

 

I've become homeschool-jaded. I read the Salon article and thought, "those kiddos will be in school by second grade." ;)

 

In my area the reality is that most don't homeschool high school. There was a measurable dribbling away of kids once we reached middle school age. Few older kids at the coop and social gatherings. What is fun and doable when your child is 5 or 8 or 11 becomes unmanagable when they're 12 or 14 or older. For us it has become more lonely. I'll join you in the jaded category. I sometimes see new homeschoolers, and based upon my impression of the mom, will think, "She won't last.". Mean, I know.:confused:

[Murphy101]

I don't know that I'm a fan but I did agree with much of what she said.

[Janice in NJ]

Thanks for responding Elizabeth.

 

A couple of things: First of all I did not read through the entire set of comments that followed that original blog post (not Susan's but the one that she was referring to). If I had, I would not have touched it with a ten foot pole. :001_smile: I in NO WAY take issue with the original blog. I am so totally and completely and (did I mentioned totally!????!!!!) psyched for those folks. I could not possible emote through pixels on a screen how psyched I am that they have chosen this path. They sound like excited, intelligent individuals who are probably going to provide an amazing childhood for their children.

 

I still have not read the blog's follow up comments. So I am basing this on the reports that ya'll have given me. If the conversation dropped into the depths of yuckie, then I'm sorry to have even been connected with that in even a tangential way. My apologies.

 

My angst is not directed at the new couple starting to homeschool.

OK. So who is it directed at? Hmmmm... OK. Thanks for taking me to task on this one. It doesn't help to give a thumbs down to something without providing a "do this instead." So.... OK.

(Looking at the clock here. I have NO TIME! But I can't just say nothing about something that I care so deeply about. But I am very aware that I am probably not going to have the time to type and edit and re-type until the little squiggles on the page MEAN what I want them to mean. Darn!)

 

OK. Let's start there. (Sheesh, this is going to be a mess.)

 

Time. I spend a lot of time driving people where they need to go. They just need to be "dropped off somewhere" nearly ALL of the time. And trust me, they are not overly-committed kids. But there are three of them. And one of me. And a dh who has a demanding job. Which usually leave one of me.

 

We are having pizza for dinner again. I don't really like pizza and have gained 10 pounds in the last two years. I SWEAR that I am going to go to the gym and do something about it, but that too falls into the arena of good intentions. I have NEVER had so many things on my "good intention" list. EVER. I am a type A DOER. I do NOT procrastinate. I am NOT that woman. But I have become that woman. I have chosen to become someone that I am not. And I'm still not used to it.

 

Dh is working tonight - broadcast, and he'll be working tomorrow. (Oh - you can listen to tonight's broadcast of Faust live on the Met's site; Aida will be live in movie theaters tomorrow ala HD if anyone's interested. Both great operas. In fact many folks have said that this Aida cast is really something special. http://www.metoperafamily.org/metopera/)

 

Where was I? Oh. Pizza. I read a recent NY Times article that talked about studies that showed that kids who eat dinner with their families are less likely to develop drug problems. The article went on to say that you don't actually have to sit down and share a meal together; it's just important to connect with your kids. So now we have a family joke. "Get in here and stand with me over the sink so we can bond over dinner so you don't grow up and do drugs. Hurry up or we'll be late.... WHERE are your socks? Don't you know we have to GOOOOOOOO!????" We're smiling. The kids are rolling their eyes along with the joke. But I still don't like the hurry up thing.

 

That feeling. That feeling feels yuckie. That hurry up thing is just the pits. So it can be fixed, right? Planning. Organization. A schedule. Structure.

 

No. Can't fix it. If that feeling could be repaired on the outside, I would have fixed it by now. I am really, really good at fixing problems. And I'm no slacker when it comes to gettin 'er done.

 

But there came a time in this project - I can't tell you the exact when; it really is that fizzy. But there came a time when I had to let go of that problem. I have had to learn to embrace, thrive.... dare I say (love) the chaos. OK. Lying; I don't love it. But embrace and thrive we do.

 

But there is that itch that panic produces. That feeling that I'm missing a really important clue phone somewhere.

 

I used to do nearly all things well when it came to homeschooling. I say nearly. We have definitely had our challenges, and I have by no means been the perfect homeschooler. My kids keep me honest! But our curriculum was always strong. I generally knew what I was doing, and when I didn't, the TE made sense AT FIRST GLANCE. And when I didn't know what to do.... THIS IS IT: When I didn't know what to do, there were LOTS of definite, clear, DO-THIS-NEXT paths offered to me. The books. The articles. The blogs. All of the voices gave me clear distinct instructions. The paths made sense. I just had to choose one and do it. And once I hit my groove, things made more sense. I knew what to do, and I was pretty successful at it.

 

Maybe that's why the vets around here always answer the newbies with that, "Don't worry, just pick a program and use it you'll be fine." It sounds patronizing. It isn't meant to be. It really does work most of the time.

 

But then I started to move towards high school.

 

And the recipes just weren't that easy to follow. The ingredient lists had all become haunted with a "dash" of this or "enough to taste" or even the occasional: Just use some green vegetable. So I did. Only when we were trying to eat the mess did someone tell me, "Hmm.... green. But not broccoli, dear. Don't you know that broccoli is too strong? It's just too much. Eww. No wonder it tasted horrible."

 

No. I did not know that broccoli was a horrible idea. Call me an idiot. I didn't know. Now I know. Mental note: all green veggies are not created equal.

 

So I'm chiming in here with the other moms:

This project is doable at the high school level. Don't get the wrong impression. It's working. My kids are learning. I get positive feedback from friends, relatives, and even folks who only know my kids for a couple of weeks. They are interesting and engaging individuals.

 

I guess I just allowed myself to believe too much in an ideal. I wanted to give my kids a thoroughly classical education. We are learning. We are growing. But I really thought I would be able to do what I wanted to do in the way that I wanted to do it if I worked hard enough. I really thought that somehow, we would find their strengths, and they would naturally navigate toward their strengths. Passionate learners and all that. Some. But not so much.

 

Example: We had a light week this week. A breather for me.(Last week was week nine for us. 27 to go) The kids only had to do their on-line class work, music lessons, and five teaching company lectures this week. I sat in on the lectures so that I could bug them by hitting pause every two minutes to discuss. (Oh - younger ds read a terrific version of Don Quixote too. Easy Peasy.) But beyond that, I had a no-teaching week. So what have the scholars been doing for the past 90 minutes? Oh, I bet you just can't wait. Ready fans? (Cough!) :tongue_smilie: The two boys are sitting on the couch huddled around a laptop watching Top Gear episodes. They argue every couple of minutes about nothing. They're almost drooling. It has grown pitch black in the room since they started. They haven't seemed to notice. They are too busy worshipping the blinking box and verbally scrapping. And my dear daughter? The gal who speaks French and Italian. The little lady who took two years of high school Latin in jr. high? The song bird? The great writer? My witty one? She's upstairs watching old episodes of The Muppets. She particularly likes the two hecklers in the box seats.

 

If I don't make them (ie add it to their "schedule"), they will not do anything.

 

Ok. Centering. I'm hungry. I think I'll bellow for one of the vidiets to place our healthy meal into the warming unit.

Done.

Dinner's coming.

 

I guess that's what I mean. It's ok. I'm too tired to care any more. And I'm starting to realize that it's OK to not care that much. It still feels weird - especially when I thought I would care so much all the way to the end. So I care now. Just not as much.... Where was I, pizza? Caring about dinner! I don't want pizza. I really don't like pizza. I would much rather have something else. But that something is going to have to be chosen by me, shopped for by me, prepared by me, and then savored by me. Instead I chose to find a way to savor pizza. Even though I don't really mean it.

 

...cont below. Post got too long....

Edited October 23, 2009 by Janice in NJ

[Janice in NJ]

Homeschooling. High School.

1. Think long and hard about what kind of education you really want your children to have.

 

2. Be realistic. If you have never read a classic of Western Literature, I would suggest that you best get to stepping. Really. No kidding. Don't want to scare you. But if you're planning on swimming the English channel, you better finding out if you even like the water off the shores of the queen's island. Drowning is no fun.

 

3. And "on-line" classes. DVD courses. Self-education. Be smart, momma. I have had actual conversation with an educated individual who has bragged that her child finished Algebra I with a DVD course in only two months. They are moving onto Geometry. "Wow! He must have done math all day long." Answer? "Nope. Took an hour a day. Done. Glad that's over with." She sees the look on my face and asks, "You look confused. Do you think something's wrong? Maybe he didn't get everything out of it that he should have?" Gosh darn it, I don't want to answer that question. Heck no. Even if you "outsource", you are still involved, mom. You are still involved! You are still involved......

 

4. You are still involved. So work through your personal issues surrounding that now. Hsing high school seemed so independent from all of the literature that I read. Now when I read it, it makes more sense, but I suspect that I'm not the only one who read it through a lying lens when my kids were little. Comments like, "As a parent, it's your responsibility to make sure that those two hours are actually spent in reading and writing, rather than in daydreaming or creating doodles on notebook paper....." (The whole paragraph from pages 499 - 500 really says it nicely. Please hear me - it's good advice; I just didn't READ it years ago.) There it is. Simple right? Just make sure. That simple line gives the impression that I am doing something else. And I am. I am not sitting there while they read. They are on their own, and I am somewhere else. But later in the chapter it says that I should supervise this process. Yes. Makes sense. But I read it through the lens of homeschooling little ones. My kids did independent work when they were little. 2*5 = ; 20* 5555= ; (2/5 * 5/7) squared; etc. When I checked their work and they did something wrong, I could help them. When they stared into space, I knew it. Now? I can glance at almost NOTHING that they do and immediately understand it - forget about possessing the ability to explain it four different ways. That thrill of knowing is gone. Now knowing comes by preparing. Reading. Studying. Exploring. And knowing more than they'll ever need to know in order to rub up against them and sharpen them in a meaningful way. (I have read The Scarlet Letter multiple times without knowing a THING about Ms. Fuller or Hawthorne's angst about "Manifest Destiny." Luther. Providential History. and Blah, Blah, Blah.... I thought it was about the adultery. ;))

 

OH. Digressing. Point #4. So the kid is sitting in the other room with his book. Reading. Note-taking. Etc. So I just read the book while he's reading it, right? WRONG! I'm helping the little brother with his algebra. He's confused again. This is important. We leave for his sister's voice lesson in twenty minutes. I haven't much time. I start talking louder. The little man knows that I'm getting agitated, but he thinks it's because he's not doing well. He's fine. I've had too much coffee; I've been up since 4:45. I have to go to the little girl's room, but we're in the middle of something, so I'm holding. The bath room is right there. Am I crazy? Maybe. Algebra homework help. From 12:00 to 12:25 and there is still no way we are going to get this done! The schedule says nothing about urine. "Where were we?" Holding.

Dd walks in, "The file server is down again. Can I reboot the network?"

"Is anyone on the network?" I bellow, "If so, save your stuff!"

Silence.

"Sure," I tell her, "reboot."

She disappears.

Ds who is supposed to be reading walks in, "Can I read this to you, Mom? This is really cool."

I WANT to say "YES!" Finally fruit of homeschooling ALL of this work, right!? A 16 year old boy wants to discuss a passage of Hawthorne - a homeschooler's dream come true! ....but I have to pee, and younger ds is starting to cry and proclaim that he hates math. The phone starts ringing; it's dh's ring. “Hang on, hun.”

I answer. "Hi. What?"

"Wow! Are you OK? Hon? I was just calling to tell you that I had a wonderful time last night. You're the best. Are you mad at me or something? Is everything OK?"

"Yes. Me too - I love you. I love you. Yes, I'm fine. Can't talk. Gotta go. I'm late."

Hanging up, I hear dd yelling from the basement. "I rebooted, and my pages still won't print. I need to take this stuff with me if I'm going to finish my history while I am waiting for (ds) at his violin lesson. WHAT am I supposed to do?" (Voice lesson first then violin lesson - same town.)

"Mom!!!!!" next to me from ds who is desperate now at the thought that he might actually have to do math after dinner in order to finish this up." Mom, I NEEEEEEED help. We are leaving in five minutes."

"Forget it. Forget it, Mom. I'll tell ya later." ds wanders back into the kitchen with Hawthorne. No one wants to hear about the burdocks and Hester and Dimmesdale; now one cares about Pearl's light missiles. Not now! I want to cry! I care, but I can't care. Not now. WHEN? WHEN? WHEN? No one was there to care with me when I circled it in my book at 5:10 in the morning. I was alone, and I too wanted to tell someone. I wanted to read it to someone. I wish he could read it to me now, but he can’t. I can’t. Can’t. Mental note: make sure to reconnect over the burdocks. It's important. It matters. I file it in my brain next to mammogram as in make an appointment for one (reminds me of burdocks!). Need a mammogram too. THOSE matter too. I like my books.

 

I'm emotionally done. I don't know what to feel.

Everything is allright. Right?

My 7th grader is doing algebra, and he is generally doing well.

My oldest "gets" literature.

My middle daughter is responsibly trying to print her work so she can take it with her to make good use of her waiting-time.

And dh loves me, and isn't afraid to show it.

 

But I have to PEE!!!! So I'm not interacting with my husband and my kids the way I want to. I'm not interacting with this material the way I want to. I'm not interacting with ME the way I want to.

And I have NO time to psycho-analyze myself. Nothing is really wrong! I just want someone somewhere to logically help me work through my limitations and how those limitations make me feel. I want someone who knows me and knows what it going on to tell me what to do! FIX THIS!

 

I would just like to read that fix-it book.

 

My 16 year old ds just brought me hot pizza and an ice cold glass of milk. "I thought you would like milk, Mom."

 

So nothing's wrong. Everything's fine.

Don't worry. :001_smile:

 

Gotta go. Finished a quick proof read. This post is a MESS! :001_smile: I'm off; yes, someone needs a ride. :001_smile:

 

So yes, you can do it. But please be mentally prepared to shift gears if you need too, and educate yourself enough so that you can do that. You need to know what to do when you don't know what to do because no one else will. Really. They will love you. They will care about you. But they won't know what to do. And don't care too much. Don't invest too much in your plan. Living life well matters more than plans for living life well. Sometimes you have to let go of one of 'em. :001_smile:

 

Peace,

Janice

 

Enjoy your little people

Enjoy your journey

Edited October 23, 2009 by Janice in NJ

[justamouse]

I agree with much of what Janice wrote. Homeschooling my younger kids is a completely different scenerio than high school. I do not like the options for high school and simply do the best I can. (I believe at this point, my attempts are superior to the other options available around me.)

 

 

 

This.

 

And Janice? I totally love you and am your fan. I get it. I'm doing the same and on most days I sound just like you.

 

And most days I see that PS isn't that bad an option. Not one that I would choose, but I see the sanity in it because most days I think that they would be getting just as much from a PS teacher as they do from me. And I only have one in HS, 5 younger than her and her x 5 = ME, with no hair, babbling in a corner about happy places.

[Colleen in NS]

Janice.

 

You are an absolute GEM. You probably have no idea. I just sat here for the past 15 minutes, HOWLING in front of my computer with tears running down my face and needing a tissue - you are SO FUNNY!!! I have not laughed this hard in a couple of years, and I never laugh at things I read on the forums, but this was priceless. It's VERY funny, and VERY honest, and what a thorough picture it is of a day in the life of a HIGH SCHOOL homeschooling Mom!! I loved it. Esp. the part about no room in the schedule for urine. I cannot stop laughing!!:lol::lol::lol:

 

But seriously, you have an awesome way of expressing what is really going on - I am saving this thread to one of my files. Thank you for being you and for continuing to hang out here.

 

Oh, and please don't edit anything else or erase anything - I tried to multi-quote both of your posts, and they were too long! I want to save this for future reference because I am SURE I will need it.

[happygrrl]

Janice.

 

You are an absolute GEM. You probably have no idea. I just sat here for the past 15 minutes, HOWLING in front of my computer with tears running down my face and needing a tissue - you are SO FUNNY!!! I have not laughed this hard in a couple of years, and I never laugh at things I read on the forums, but this was priceless. It's VERY funny, and VERY honest, and what a thorough picture it is of a day in the life of a HIGH SCHOOL homeschooling Mom!! I loved it. Esp. the part about no room in the schedule for urine. I cannot stop laughing!!:lol::lol::lol:

 

But seriously, you have an awesome way of expressing what is really going on - I am saving this thread to one of my files. Thank you for being you and for continuing to hang out here.

 

Oh, and please don't edit anything else or erase anything - I tried to multi-quote both of your posts, and they were too long! I want to save this for future reference because I am SURE I will need it.

 

:iagree: Howling for me was both laughing AND crying....

[elegantlion]

Perhaps I should have one my favorite mantras "Blessed are the flexible for they shall not be bent out of shape" tattooed on my forearm or palm where I can see it on a daily basis. Sharpies, maybe I'll start with sharpies. Come on Z, an art project, you get to write on mom's arms.

[Janice in NJ]

Colleen,

 

I said "Pee" ....more than once. You're not really going to save that are you?

 

:001_smile: Janice

[Jami]

 

I've become homeschool-jaded. I read the Salon article and thought, "those kiddos will be in school by second grade." ;)

 

:lol:

 

That's *exactly* what I said!

[JennW in SoCal]

My list, which isn't going to be very funny after Janice's stream-of-consciousness rant;)

 

1. Start learning about college entrance requirements. Here in California, for instance, an independent homeschooler cannot get into a state school, neither UC nor Cal State, as the system refuses to recognize homeschool diplomas. You can start at a CC and transfer, or enroll at an accredited charter high school to get an acceptable transciprt and diploma. Knowing details like this can help you keep as many doors open as possible for your homeschooler, and prepare you for the doors you are going to close.

 

2. Along the same lines, be aware that many public high schools will not give credit to homeschool courses, so if your dc decide after their sophmore year they want to attend the local ps, you may have trouble enrolling him as a junior. It varies from district to district, so find out NOW.

 

3. Time in the car doesn't have to be car schooling -- with a teen, time in a car is a chance to chat -- drug prevention bonding! My life would be so much easier if my oldest had his license, but he is too dang busy to schedule that last behind the wheel class and his driving test! So drive I do, up and down the same freeway, and between that time in the car and Facebook, I know what is going on in my 17yo's life. He will be on the other side of the country in 3 months -- I remind myself this current chaos will be over and to savor what little time we do have. Car time is also highly entertaining when you have several homeschool boys in the back seats because their topics of conversation make for very surreal experiences. I'd try to recreate one now, but I can't do it justice!

 

4. There are those kids for whom a "rigorous" WTM high school education is not the right fit. It doesn't mean you give up on great or pretty darn good books, of give up on analysis and writing, but it just may not go at the pace or to the depth you had hoped. Not every kid is ready for a 4 year college at 18, some might do best with CC or a trade school if they can follow a passion and be happy. It is wrenching to come to terms with that -- I am speaking from experience, but once you accept it, everyone is happier.

 

5. Not every course is as in depth as you'd like. We call them "Git 'er done" courses, or "checking off the box" courses. There is only so much time in the day for a student to work, only so many hours we can give up on the weekends in planning. Focus on the basics, focus on your dc's interests, get the rest done in as easy a manner as possible.

 

6. (Echoing Janice here ) Dinner? All their activities are in the evening. It is a shock when the entire family unit is together for a meal -- and usually there is no food to prepare as I haven't had time to grocery shop so we all go out to eat.

 

Exercise? I send the kids out to walk the dog so I can sit and stare into space for a few minutes.

 

We could go into the poor timing of our biological clocks -- perimenopausal moms and raging hormonal teens is not a pretty combination....

 

It is a much busier time of life, almost as tiring as having a baby in the house, but with a different kind of exhaustion. But it is a great time too -- these are the great kids we raised, who have cool friends and unique interests. And you get to share books!! And re-learn high school math! I figure I've held back the onset of dementia by several years with all this learning I'm doing in my late 40s!!!

[Nan in Mass]

Jenn, we had a rough week, too. I'm waving to you from my own tip of a neighboring branch. No grades, a mishmash of work that I divide into courses at the end of high school, no APs, no SATIIs, and children who disappear for months on end... it is all very scary, but I don't know what else to do. Hugs. -Nan

[tex-mex]

I agree with much of what Janice wrote. Homeschooling my younger kids is a completely different scenerio than high school. I do not like the options for high school and simply do the best I can. (I believe at this point, my attempts are superior to the other options available around me.)

 

I am completely disillusioned with online classes. I am no longer a believer or advocate for them. My experience is that they have been ok, but nothing stellar and definitely no better than what I can provide on my own.

 

Different curricula choices are definitely not equal.

 

I feel at a complete loss in guiding some of my children in course selections/future aspirations. What course load should a child who vascillates between culinary arts and forensic science actually take??? How about an almost adult child that behaves like a young child with unrealistic goals?

 

How about the whole "self-educating/self-teaching" argument? How on earth do kids move beyond their own comprehension level w/o any challenge to their perspective? (This is an argument in the homeschooling community that I have never understood.)

 

Pat answers might sound like reasonable solutions, but our homeschool experience has been that every yr presents its own new challenges and that there aren't always simple answers and that even our past experiences don't necessarily reveal a path.

 

I simply grin inwardly when I listen to new homeschoolers that have all the answers. I sure wish I did!!

 

:iagree:

[Nan in Mass]

Hugs, Jane.

[Nan in Mass]

I'm trying to give honest answers. I'm beginning to feel like I'm repeating myself, though, and just dragging everyone else along on the emotional everything's fine, panic, everything's fine, panic, roller coaster. Elizabeth, I'll see if I can find some of the old posts where I answer this question. Or try to remember what I've said. It might take me a bit to get to it, though. -Nan

[Jane in NC]

Hugs, Jane.

 

Thanks Nan. I think that travel fatigue is playing into my emotions this week. Also, I feel that The Boy needs to test his wings and not have Mom micro-managing his life. Not sure if all of his decisions were the wisest--I find myself worrying over the silliest things!

 

We have some family time scheduled for the weekend. Reconnection should help. (Also helps having my laundry done. Visiting family and friends last week was a good thing, but instead of feeling relaxed upon my return, I feel scattered!)

 

Jane

[Colleen in NS]

I'm trying to give honest answers. I'm beginning to feel like I'm repeating myself, though, and just dragging everyone else along on the emotional everything's fine, panic, everything's fine, panic, roller coaster. Elizabeth, I'll see if I can find some of the old posts where I answer this question. Or try to remember what I've said. It might take me a bit to get to it, though. -Nan

 

Nan, I actually thought of your posts when I read Elizabeth's post wanting to know the nitty gritty. Feel free to just link, if you don't want to repeat things you've said before...I'd read your old posts again! I like reading about your "messy" high-school-Mom life - it lets me know what things will be like, and these "messy" posts make me all the more determined to go for it.

[Nan in Mass]

I know. As grateful as I am to our CC, it is still school, something which we like to minimize in our family. Sigh.

[Jane in NC]

I know. As grateful as I am to our CC, it is still school, something which we like to minimize in our family. Sigh.

 

Ayup. I suspect that my son will not be at the CC for his last semester. He has demonstrated that he can do classroom work, but I would rather he focus on his APs, senior project and lots of 20th century novels. In fact, if we remove the CC from the equation, we should have some flexibility for a bit of travel--something that I have always valued.

 

Preparing to let go is tough. Can't imagine how things will be next August...

 

Jane

[Janice in NJ]

Oh my. Me too with the fine, panic, fine, panic not-so-merry-go-round. I too think I must sound as crazy as I (sometimes) feel. But then I think, "I'm not. I'm just regular-ole." So you must be normal too. I get it.

 

Peace to you and yours!

Janice

[Nan in Mass]

Actually, August wasn't so bad. It was May and June... You might find you let go most of the way when he graduates in June, at least the school end of things. Then you are just left with the normal parental empty spot at dinner and next to you in the car mourning in August. You might be doing a bunch of the mourning in advance, in anticipation. I'm dreading the last one already, and he himself explodes if anyone mentions college in connection with him.

-Nan