hornblower Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 There is so much in this article. If you have time to read the whole thing, it's here. The virus can cause life-threatening viral pneumonia much more commonly than the typical flu, prompting the World Health Organization on Friday to warn hospitals to prepare for a possible wave of very sick patients and to urge doctors to treat suspected cases quickly with antiviral drugs. "It's not like seasonal influenza," "It can cause very severe disease in previously healthy young adults." recent animal studies and autopsies on about 100 swine flu victims show that H1N1 infects both the upper respiratory tract, which makes it relatively easy to transmit, and also the lungs, which is more similar to the avian flu virus that has been circulating in Asia. "It's like the avian flu on steroids," said Sherif Zaki, chief of Infectious Disease Pathology at the CDC. He noted that unusually large concentrations of the swine flu virus have been found in the lungs of victims: "It really is a new beast, so to speak." an otherwise healthy nurse whose hobby was tackling grueling triathlons. Despite desperate measures to keep her alive, Hays, 51, died in July within days of coming down with swine flu. "I have seen more cases like this in the last three months than I have in the last 30 years," said Peter Murphy, director of intensive care at the Mercy San Juan Medical Center in Carmichael, Calif., who tried to save Hays. There appears to be no way to predict with certainty who may suffer serious, life-threatening complications, since some victims have had no other health problems "It's very difficult to get this double-barreled message out that: 'Yes, most cases are mild, but in a small percentage of cases these cases are disastrous,' " Vanderbilt University's William Schaffner said. "But the message is: Don't underestimate H1N1." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MariannNOVA Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 Thanks for posting the entire article -- I read it Saturday evening in the Washington Post and it was 'sobering' to say the least. Vaccination clinics for H1N1 open this Saturday to the general public in Fairfax County, VA. My pediatrician says she is fairly certain there will not be enough vaccine for everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELaurie Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 Link to Transcript. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 (edited) Here are some other noteworthy excerpts from the same article: Experts stress that most people who get the H1N1 virus either never get sick or recover easily So far, the virus does not seem to sicken or kill people more often than the typical flu. Edited October 19, 2009 by Colleen clarification Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kfeusse Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 There are so many different opinions and thoughts on this...how in the world is anyone suppose to decide what to do??? Good grief!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELaurie Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 Here are some other noteworthy excerpts: Colleen, could you link the source for these quotes - pretty please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 Colleen, could you link the source for these quotes - pretty please? Those are from the same article hornblower linked above.:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELaurie Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 I'm still reading and didn't realize they were from the same article. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmom3tn Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 There are so many different opinions and thoughts on this...how in the world is anyone suppose to decide what to do??? Good grief!!!!!!! That's exactly what I'm thinking. I've got 2 sick kids and have no idea what to do. Normally I'd be handling it just fine, but this swine flu has me second-guessing myself. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babysparkler Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 I heard so many people talking about how "mild" the swine flu was supposed to be... and even saw it from people at church who barely noticed the effects of it, but now that I have it, I can say it is NOT mild for me... I'm an asthmatic. Last night I woke up not able to breathe and thankfully had my nebulizer machine by my bedside ready to go. If it hadn't been for that medicine working, dh would have called an ambulance. I guess for the majority of the population the swine flu is just another illness, but for me, it is much more serious. All that said, I typically have similar problems with the seasonal flu, so I am always first in line for my vaccination. The area I am in still hasn't even received any vaccinations for the swine flu... seems we are at the end of the list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickenpatty Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 There are so many different opinions and thoughts on this...how in the world is anyone suppose to decide what to do??? Good grief!!!!!!! I know what you mean! I guess that's one good thing about getting it, then you don't have to decide about the vaccine.:confused: All six of my kids have had it this week. Two had a very mild case, two had it a little tougher, and the other two (the diabetic one and the asthmatic one) have had a harder time shaking it. I think we are just about done with it... now I'm just carefully monitoring their coughs. I think I had underestimated it, but mainly the infectiousness of it. We have quaranteened ourselves in serious efforts not to give it to anyone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornblower Posted October 25, 2009 Author Share Posted October 25, 2009 I know what you mean! I guess that's one good thing about getting it, then you don't have to decide about the vaccine.:confused: This is yet another thing we just don't know enough about. There were some indications that people who had very mild cases might not have enough immunity to prevent a reinfection. If the titres are too low, you can catch it again. I believe the recommendations are to get the vax even if you think you've had it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennW in SoCal Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 My ds had swine flu last spring. He was quite sick with it, and many the kids in the theater production he was in at the time were dropping like flies. Healthy one minute, then suddenly slammed with aches and fever. I've never seen a virus spread through a group like that or seen kids get so sick so suddenly. The parents were next to get hit. My ds started to get better, but wound up with pnuemonia as did 2 other in the group. ("Mom? Is it bad that I can hear a rattle in my lungs when I breathe?") He does have mild asthma -- more "reactive airways" than your typical asthma, so no doubt that made him more likely to have complications. I think common sense is important here. If you are asthmatic, get the vaccine! If you are out in public and around large groups of kids, get a vaccine. Wash your hands, get enough sleep and vitamins! And if your child gets it -- watch for signs of complications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tree House Academy Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 I have to be honest, I appreciate all the information, but telling the public that 99% have mild illness, but "watch out cause you could get sick for no reason and die fast." It is just ridiculous. It is a scare tactic and for millions of people, it is working. It has worked for me. Articles like this are doing me no good. Hornblower posted all the scary stuff, Colleen posted the reassuing stuff and all of it came from the same article. I don't know whether to hunker down and never leave the house or weather the storm as it comes. For those who cannot get the vaccine, this does nothing but cause panic. I had a reaction to a flu vaccine and I am not willing to "try" this new one to see if it happens again. So... I am screwed. My older son's dad agreed to him getting the vaccine, but my husband refuses to allow my little guy to get the vaccine. Most in my area are turning it down. This is not helping ANYONE who can't get the vaccine! The end all, cure all seems to be "well, just get the vaccine" and dang it, it is just not that easy for everyone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in MD Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 I think common sense is important here. If you are asthmatic, get the vaccine! If you are out in public and around large groups of kids, get a vaccine. Wash your hands, get enough sleep and vitamins! And if your child gets it -- watch for signs of complications. My 11-year-old ds has asthma, but he is also allergic to eggs. So no flu shots for him. I just keep the nebulizer and a supply of albuterol on hand to use at the first sign of anything respiratory going on with him. I also make sure that the kids are using hand sanitizer whenever we leave a public place, taking their vitamins, drinking lots of water, and getting enough rest. Heather in MD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 I believe the recommendations are to get the vax even if you think you've had it. According to...? The source won't influence me, but I'm curious about a citation since our own doctor certainly wouldn't make this recommendation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EthiopianFood Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 I have to be honest, I appreciate all the information, but telling the public that 99% have mild illness, but "watch out cause you could get sick for no reason and die fast." It is just ridiculous. It is a scare tactic and for millions of people, it is working. It has worked for me. Articles like this are doing me no good. Hornblower posted all the scary stuff, Colleen posted the reassuing stuff and all of it came from the same article. I don't know whether to hunker down and never leave the house or weather the storm as it comes. For those who cannot get the vaccine, this does nothing but cause panic. I had a reaction to a flu vaccine and I am not willing to "try" this new one to see if it happens again. So... I am screwed. My older son's dad agreed to him getting the vaccine, but my husband refuses to allow my little guy to get the vaccine. Most in my area are turning it down. This is not helping ANYONE who can't get the vaccine! The end all, cure all seems to be "well, just get the vaccine" and dang it, it is just not that easy for everyone! :iagree::iagree::iagree: You know what I want to see? More studies on the effects of nutrition, vitamin D, vegan diet, WHATEVER, and the likelyhood of someone getting this. They're not getting their stupid "cure all" (ha) vaccine out in a way that helps MOST of us, so they should be putting just as much energy into figuring out what we can do in the meantime. I vax, okay, but honestly, how much of this is just another way for the drug companies to make money? I mean, they have influence in so many other areas, why not this? I'm not trying to be reactionary, but you would just think that if they are really just trying to save lives here, they would explore EVERY option, not just those that support their d@mn medical model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barb_ Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 :iagree::iagree::iagree: You know what I want to see? More studies on the effects of nutrition, vitamin D, vegan diet, WHATEVER, and the likelyhood of someone getting this. They're not getting their stupid "cure all" (ha) vaccine out in a way that helps MOST of us, so they should be putting just as much energy into figuring out what we can do in the meantime. I vax, okay, but honestly, how much of this is just another way for the drug companies to make money? I mean, they have influence in so many other areas, why not this? I'm not trying to be reactionary, but you would just think that if they are really just trying to save lives here, they would explore EVERY option, not just those that support their d@mn medical model. Studies are expensive and need much time to complete. Who is to say no one is doing studies on some of the factors you mention? Go to Science Daily and look up vegan or vitamin D and you will find scads of research already completed on nutrition and disease. Yet there is no quick way to isolate say Vitamin D and its effect on this particular flu because it's not a clear cut cause and effect. Think about what you are saying for a second. Barb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornblower Posted October 26, 2009 Author Share Posted October 26, 2009 According to...? The source won't influence me, but I'm curious about a citation since our own doctor certainly wouldn't make this recommendation. The CDC. http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/vaccination/public/vaccination_qa_pub.htm#prior "if you were ill but do not know if you had 2009 H1N1 infection, you should get vaccinated, if your doctor recommends it. So, most people recommended for 2009 H1N1 vaccination should be vaccinated with the 2009 H1N1 vaccine regardless of whether they had a flu-like illness earlier in the year. If you have had 2009 H1N1 flu, as confirmed by an RT-PCR test, you should have some immunity against 2009 H1N1 flu and can choose not to get the 2009 H1N1 vaccine. However, vaccination of a person with some existing immunity to the 2009 H1N1 virus will not be harmful." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EthiopianFood Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 (edited) Studies are expensive and need much time to complete. Who is to say no one is doing studies on some of the factors you mention? Go to Science Daily and look up vegan or vitamin D and you will find scads of research already completed on nutrition and disease. Yet there is no quick way to isolate say Vitamin D and its effect on this particular flu because it's not a clear cut cause and effect. Think about what you are saying for a second. I find this comment incredibly rude. If you don't want to exchange ideas, then why bother replying in the first place? :confused: They are already doing autopsies and claiming that certain conditions appear to make people more vulnerable. They already ARE doing studies. They are treating people in hospitals, and giving advice on flu hotlines. They choose what to ask, they choose what to test. In an emergency situation, you do what you can to address the issue as soon as possible. It takes quite a bit of time to effectively test the long-term safety of a vaccine, but they were still willing to declare it safe without taking this time because they felt it is necessary. Where are the preliminary reports on other ways to prevent or treat? And I don't see how blood tests for Vitamin D on everyone that comes into the hospital or clinic and seeing if there is any difference among those who recover quickly versus those who are hit harder, or don't make it at all, is so complicated. It's SOMETHING. Also, there are tons of studies showing that the young and healthy are some of the least likely to get sick. That obviously doesn't apply here. Why would anyone assume other studies automatically apply either? Edited October 26, 2009 by RaeAnne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barb_ Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 The CDC. http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/vaccination/public/vaccination_qa_pub.htm#prior "if you were ill but do not know if you had 2009 H1N1 infection, you should get vaccinated, if your doctor recommends it. So, most people recommended for 2009 H1N1 vaccination should be vaccinated with the 2009 H1N1 vaccine regardless of whether they had a flu-like illness earlier in the year. If you have had 2009 H1N1 flu, as confirmed by an RT-PCR test, you should have some immunity against 2009 H1N1 flu and can choose not to get the 2009 H1N1 vaccine. However, vaccination of a person with some existing immunity to the 2009 H1N1 virus will not be harmful." Thanks for posting this (and to Colleen, who asked the question) because I wondered about it myself. My kids almost certainly had the flu (they were presumed cases according to our doc), but as I posted earlier, I was the only one to avoid the respiratory symptoms and fever. I had some of the other symptoms that coincided with their illness, but I'm not sure whether I actually caught it and fought off the worst of it, or whether I simply had something else. I think I'll hold off on the kids getting the vaccine in order to save it for those who haven't developed symptoms, but try to get it myself. When Mom is sick, everything grinds to a halt. Barb Barb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barb_ Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 I find this comment incredibly rude. If you don't want to exchange ideas, then why bother replying in the first place? :confused: No really, I did mean take a step back, stop hyperventilating, and think. You are talking using anecdotal evidence to make official recommendations, not double-blind clinical trials. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/double-blind+procedure The level of paranoia on this board anymore is making me wonder. Barb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EthiopianFood Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 No really, I did mean take a step back, stop hyperventilating, and think. You are talking using anecdotal evidence to make official recommendations, not double-blind clinical trials. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/double-blind+procedure The level of paranoia on this board anymore is making me wonder. Barb Being frustrated doesn't equal hyperventilating, and not agreeing with you certainly doesn't mean someone isn't thinking. ;) I'm not sure how making an official recommendation that having heathy levels of Vitamin D, or some other thing that has no negative side effects, based on PRELIMINARY evidence that they MAY make a difference for some during an epidemic concerns you, but testing a vaccine that we are injecting into infants for a very short time, or talking about the importance of Tamiflu, even for young children, without mentioning the very real (though small) risks for children, does not. If that sounds like good science to you, then so be it. They sped everything up to get the vaccine out. Where is this same diligence in finding other ways to manage this, especially when even the people who want the vaccine are unable to get it? How is this logical? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 However, vaccination of a person with some existing immunity to the 2009 H1N1 virus will not be harmful." Mercury, petroleum products and food that has not been digested going directly into my children's bloodstream certainly has the potential for "harmful". I have to be honest, I appreciate all the information, but telling the public that 99% have mild illness, but "watch out cause you could get sick for no reason and die fast." It is just ridiculous. It is a scare tactic and for millions of people, it is working. It has worked for me. Articles like this are doing me no good. Hornblower posted all the scary stuff, Colleen posted the reassuing stuff and all of it came from the same article. I don't know whether to hunker down and never leave the house or weather the storm as it comes. For those who cannot get the vaccine, this does nothing but cause panic. I had a reaction to a flu vaccine and I am not willing to "try" this new one to see if it happens again. So... I am screwed. My older son's dad agreed to him getting the vaccine, but my husband refuses to allow my little guy to get the vaccine. Most in my area are turning it down. This is not helping ANYONE who can't get the vaccine! The end all, cure all seems to be "well, just get the vaccine" and dang it, it is just not that easy for everyone!:iagree::iagree: You know what I want to see? More studies on the effects of nutrition, vitamin D, vegan diet, WHATEVER, and the likelyhood of someone getting this. They're not getting their stupid "cure all" (ha) vaccine out in a way that helps MOST of us, so they should be putting just as much energy into figuring out what we can do in the meantime. :iagree: I'm not sure how making an official recommendation that having heathy levels of Vitamin D, or some other thing that has no negative side effects, based on PRELIMINARY evidence that they MAY make a difference for some during an epidemic concerns you, but testing a vaccine that we are injecting into infants for a very short time, or talking about the importance of Tamiflu, even for young children, without mentioning the very real (though small) risks for children, does not. If that sounds like good science to you, then so be it. They sped everything up to get the vaccine out. Where is this same diligence in finding other ways to manage this, especially when even the people who want the vaccine are unable to get it? How is this logical? :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tree House Academy Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 I was reading recently and article on flu trackers that, part of what declaring a "Pandemic Emergency" does is give hospitals the right to TURN AWAY patients who are terminally ill, not expected to recover, etc. This is getting worse by the DAY in my opinion. I knew there had to be some reason this was done. The news stories said it would "free up resources" - yeah, to the tune of turning away all the "expendable people." I am sad, scared, and frustrated tonight and H1N1/the media/the government/the false and or misleading reports are all to blame for that. *vomit* (and/or hyperventilate into a bag?) ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 I just assumed the "pandemic emergency" fit someone's political agenda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peela Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 There are so many different opinions and thoughts on this...how in the world is anyone suppose to decide what to do??? Good grief!!!!!!! Its easy. You use the information available, you combine it with your own intuition, common sense, and knowledge of your own family's unique situation. You recongnise they dont know more than they know and everybody is in the dark, ultimately.......and you either do something or nothing. You feed your family healthy food, get enough exercise and enough sleep, to maximise your everyday health. Its the unknown that freaks everyone out, but they dont know what they dont know, and they can only pretend to know. The government etc wants to protect itself so that no one can say "you didnt tell us", "you had the information and you didnt let the public know " etc etc. SO they are pumping out the information so that no one can turn around and blame them. You try and make decisions from a clear mind and not fear based emotions. Then you let go and trust and stop worrying. Because worrying just doesn't help. amd you are 99% likely to be in the 99% for whom its not such a big deal. And if you are in the other 1%, you wont know till its time to go to the hospital, and then theres not much you can do about it but do what you need to do. So, dont worry, because stress only weakens your immune system :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EthiopianFood Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 So, dont worry, because stress only weakens your immune system :) Do you even have H1N1 in Australia? :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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