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I just read Eat to Live and Nourishing Traditions....


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Talk about two conflicting opinions on the use of fats and animal products! I guess there is a study to support nearly any way of eating. :confused:

 

I'm trying to put together a nutritional plan together for my family, and really liked some tips from both of these very different books. First, I agree that we need to be eating a LOT more fruits and vegetables than we do right now. Second, I agree that any products, including animal products, should be in the most natural state possible. The idea of soaking/sprouting beans and grains makes a lot of sense to me, as does fermenting dairy. Also, low-heat and water-based cooking seems to be healthier than high heat, dry cooking (both books recommend cooking at lower temperatures).

 

So, my plan is to combine what I like about both programs (more veggies from Eat to Live, more good fats/sprouting/fermenting from Nourishing Traditions, and no refined grains/sugars/processed foods from both programs). Here are my basics:

 

Dairy:should come from either raw whole milk or whole milk fermented dairy products (that I really want to try to make myself).

 

Meat: I want to make my own bone stocks and use those as the base for soups loaded with beans and veggies. Other than soups, I only want to eat meat maybe once or twice a week and fish once a week.

 

Beans/Grains: I want to try to get in the habit of eating of beans or legumes every day and 1 or maybe 2 servings of soaked or sprouted grain products (made at home). I am trying to get out of the habit of "needing" a grain at each meal.

 

Fruit: Fresh fruit with breakfast and lunch and for dessert, so around 3 pieces a day (no juice).

 

Vegetables: Eat to Live's plan includes one pound of raw and one pound of cooked vegetables per day. I am going to aim for 1.5 pounds of vegetables per day, with some raw vegetables with lunch and for snacks and a big salad with each dinner.

 

Fats: I am going to use organic butter or olive oil (we already do this) and use coconut oil as well.

 

Sweeteners: only honey, maple syrup, or agave, used sparingly.

 

Soy: Very little soy and mostly miso. Maybe some soy beans or tofu occasionally, but no soy milk or processed soy.

 

Snacks: Raw veggies with dip or spread, raw nuts, fruit (some dried, mostly fresh).

 

So, what do you think? Has anyone tried following the Nourishing Traditions program but with less meat and more veggies? I guess I am discovering that I am a "flexitarian" - I would like fruits and vegetables to be the largest part of my diet, but I also want to eat meat a few times a week, as well as dairy and eggs. As long as they are high quality, of course. I am just getting started with all of this so any tips are highly welcome! This weekend I will be going through my pantry and refrigerator and seeing what the damage is. Wish me luck! :D

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I have really enjoyed our process of going raw. However, I don't see 100% raw as the goal. I simply see it as a choice that some people make. I probably won't. I can see getting pretty close though as I gain ability. I love green smoothies (a staple of raw foodists, it seems). I love fruits and veggies, nuts and seeds. I am enjoying sprouting with the kids (right now, we have mung, lentil and garbanza going). I have told some friends I'd like to visit the raw food cafe in Dallas.

 

But... I'm likely to have a piece of toast sometimes (maybe Ezekiel bread as we like that). I have had one bite of chicken in the last week and don't fee particularly bad about it either. If we go to the state fair, I'll probably have a little funnel cake<gasp!>. And I didn't feel bad at all trying the cheeses at Whole Foods Sunday.

 

Anyway, I think flexible is good. I think there are obvious benefits and reasons to going raw, but I don't think it's necessary to do it 100%. There are a few really good websites for people, esp moms, going 60-90% raw. I'm reading and ebook right now where the goal is 80-95%.

 

So a lot of people think it is fine to have a steak or some milk once in awhile. And I'm fine not being dogmatic about it :) I think you and are are in the majority probably :)

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The only thing that I would say is that, by combining the two diets, you might find that you end up eating too many calories. The very large amount of fruit and veg, plus some whole grains, nuts and pulses in Eat to Live do, in the end, add up to calories, and if you are adding in a fair amount of meat/fats on top, you might need to watch out. If you stick to eating meat rarely, you should be fine. Dairy might be a problem, as the fats might add up to more energy than you need.

 

I do think that it is important to find a way of eating that works for you personally, but combining approaches can come with pitfalls. I have found that I am happiest on a modified Eat to Live diet, but am quite aware that I can't move to far away from it, or I start to gain weight. Meat once a week seems to work fine for me.

 

Best wishes

 

Laura

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I don't think there is anything wrong with needing a grain at each meal. Grains are a perfectly valid food choice, hehehe. The problem is when you have your usual sized serve, which is probably too large (in my experience anyway,) and top that up with some more carbs in legume or vegetable form. Once you have the hang of where those sneaky carbs hide, you'll quickly get used to reducing one form if you are increasing another.

 

Soy is nasty stuff and mostly tastes bad! Miso is yummy though, and so are tamari and tempeh. Well, the tempeh is if you cook it nicely. It's not too good steamed and lumped on a plate, heheh.

 

One of my raw foodie books has a porridge recipe made from sprouted buckwheat. It's from this book: http://www.amazon.com/Raw-Food-Revolution-Diet/dp/1570671850

 

 

Rosie

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Soy is nasty stuff and mostly tastes bad!

 

Bizarrely enough, I like soy milk; I drank it often when I lived in China and often still prefer it to dairy. What should I be worried about? The company I buy from is certified organic and non-rainforest sourced.

 

Laura

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The way you described is pretty much how we eat. I consider it "well rounded" - heavy on the veggies and fruits, grains, lighter on raw/fermented dairy, healthy fats and meats to flavor. We eat very little processed, other than pasta (because darn it, I LIKE pasta!). In other words, I think it's fairly easy to plug the NT ideals of natural and unprocessed (or traditionally processed) into many different "programs" of eating.

 

Some "things" though: sprouting is not without controversy. I am spare on the details and have to do some research myself, but someone was recently pointing out that sprouting seeds are naturally equipped with toxins to deter predators, increasing the survival of the plant. You may want to look into that. (or not. like I said, I have yet to myself)

 

Miso. Let me introduce you to South River Miso. We really like the azuki bean and chickpea (I think they're "1 year"), but they have a lot of really neat flavors and most, if not all, are soy free. I like to add the azuki bean to tomato sauce once it cools a bit. Nothing like sneaking some probiotics into the pasta!

 

Agave. Agave nectar is chemically the same as HFCS. So your body will process it in a similar way. Raw nectar has some mineral benefits, but I would use it sparingly. I think honey and maple syrup are probably better choices, though I do use agave nectar when I really need a neutral flavor.

 

Also, I like to add some astragalus root to bone broths in the winter. It's good for immunity. ;)

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Anyway, I think flexible is good. I think there are obvious benefits and reasons to going raw, but I don't think it's necessary to do it 100%. There are a few really good websites for people, esp moms, going 60-90% raw. I'm reading and ebook right now where the goal is 80-95%.

 

So a lot of people think it is fine to have a steak or some milk once in awhile. And I'm fine not being dogmatic about it :) I think you and are are in the majority probably :)

 

Thanks for the encouragement! I would love to take a look at those websites if you have them handy! My goal is to have 70-75 percent of my calories come from plant products and around half of these to be from raw foods.

 

I just want to go on record as saying that some of the recipes in that book are gdawful disgusting.

 

Of course, I own that book...and I *love* Kombucha. I'm a little :001_huh: and :tongue_smilie:on a lot of Weston Price stuff, however.

 

:tongue_smilie:Yeah, some of those recipes don't look very tasty to me. And don't think I will ever eat raw meat. :D

 

The only thing that I would say is that, by combining the two diets, you might find that you end up eating too many calories. The very large amount of fruit and veg, plus some whole grains, nuts and pulses in Eat to Live do, in the end, add up to calories, and if you are adding in a fair amount of meat/fats on top, you might need to watch out. If you stick to eating meat rarely, you should be fine. Dairy might be a problem, as the fats might add up to more energy than you need.

 

I do think that it is important to find a way of eating that works for you personally, but combining approaches can come with pitfalls. I have found that I am happiest on a modified Eat to Live diet, but am quite aware that I can't move to far away from it, or I start to gain weight. Meat once a week seems to work fine for me.

 

Best wishes

 

Laura

 

Thanks, Laura. I was concerned about the calories too. I think my goal since I am not trying to lose weight is about 1700-1750 per day. I tried figuring out the Eat to Live calories (altered a bit for my own plan) and this is what I am coming up with (does it look realistic?)

 

Vegetable products:

1.5 pounds vegetables (cooked and raw) = 200 calories

3 pieces fruit = 200 calories

1 cup beans/legumes = 250 calories

2 servings grains = 250 calories

1-2 servings plant based fats (olive oil, nuts) = 100-300 calories

Total calories from vegetable products= 1050-1450

 

Then on top of that I am adding calories from animal products:

 

Animal products:

1-2 servings dairy (including butter) = 100 to 250 calories

meat or broth and related animal fat = 100 to 300 calories

Total calories from animal products: 200 to 550 calories

 

I would probably alternate the plant based fats with the meat, eating meat/fish/poultry 3 times a week and then adding nuts/avocados etc the other days. Although I would probably at least use olive oil every day. So that puts me at a range of 1600 to 1650 a day and I still have a little wiggle room for occasional sweeteners and maybe a little extra oil here and there. Does this seem realistic?? I'm probably forgetting some major calorie source that will throw everything off. :D

 

 

Thanks so much for all of the replies/advice!

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I don't think there is anything wrong with needing a grain at each meal. Grains are a perfectly valid food choice, hehehe. The problem is when you have your usual sized serve, which is probably too large (in my experience anyway,) and top that up with some more carbs in legume or vegetable form. Once you have the hang of where those sneaky carbs hide, you'll quickly get used to reducing one form if you are increasing another.

 

Soy is nasty stuff and mostly tastes bad! Miso is yummy though, and so are tamari and tempeh. Well, the tempeh is if you cook it nicely. It's not too good steamed and lumped on a plate, heheh.

 

One of my raw foodie books has a porridge recipe made from sprouted buckwheat. It's from this book: http://www.amazon.com/Raw-Food-Revolution-Diet/dp/1570671850

 

 

Rosie

 

Yeah, I like grains too. :D My goal is to have a grain with breakfast, a grain with lunch (either an open faced sandwich or pita, not two whole slices of bread), and then skip the grain at dinner and fill up on mainly veggies and a little meat or soup instead.

 

I just got some buckwheat I am planning on sprouting to make some kasha, my father-in-law told me about it and it sounds great! And thanks for the link to the book!

 

The way you described is pretty much how we eat. I consider it "well rounded" - heavy on the veggies and fruits, grains, lighter on raw/fermented dairy, healthy fats and meats to flavor. We eat very little processed, other than pasta (because darn it, I LIKE pasta!). In other words, I think it's fairly easy to plug the NT ideals of natural and unprocessed (or traditionally processed) into many different "programs" of eating.

 

Some "things" though: sprouting is not without controversy. I am spare on the details and have to do some research myself, but someone was recently pointing out that sprouting seeds are naturally equipped with toxins to deter predators, increasing the survival of the plant. You may want to look into that. (or not. like I said, I have yet to myself)

 

Miso. Let me introduce you to South River Miso. We really like the azuki bean and chickpea (I think they're "1 year"), but they have a lot of really neat flavors and most, if not all, are soy free. I like to add the azuki bean to tomato sauce once it cools a bit. Nothing like sneaking some probiotics into the pasta!

 

Agave. Agave nectar is chemically the same as HFCS. So your body will process it in a similar way. Raw nectar has some mineral benefits, but I would use it sparingly. I think honey and maple syrup are probably better choices, though I do use agave nectar when I really need a neutral flavor.

 

Also, I like to add some astragalus root to bone broths in the winter. It's good for immunity. ;)

 

Ooh, thanks for the Miso link! I just bookmarked it. :001_smile: I hadn't heard that about the sprouting, but I guess I will have to do some more research now. I wish the birds in my backyard thought that my sprouting veggies were toxic....they ran off with about 80 percent of them this spring. :glare: Like you, I am planning to use the agave only when honey or maple flavoring just won't work. Thanks so much for all of the tips! It's nice to know someone else is following a similar plan and it is working well. :001_smile:

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We love Nourishing Traditions here at our house. I use it all the time. And of course, Kombucha is brewing in my kitchen as I speak. And fermenting milk products is now second nature thanks to NT. We are very blessed to get as much raw milk as we need. Plus fresh, free range eggs that we use in smoothies everyday. And we naturally eat tons of fresh veggies and fruit. You will love NT. I highly recommend it.

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Yeah, I like grains too. :D My goal is to have a grain with breakfast, a grain with lunch (either an open faced sandwich or pita, not two whole slices of bread), and then skip the grain at dinner and fill up on mainly veggies and a little meat or soup instead.

 

That wouldn't do for me. It doesn't matter how many beans or veggies I eat, I nearly always need a grain. That and living on beans and no grains for 14 weeks while gestational diabetic makes me very resistant to trying! It's not the grains that are evil, it's the nasty ways we can refine them. It's all about context, in my opinion, grains packed up nicely with their fibre and vitamins still intact are good. Grains that are mainly starch with fibre and vitamins "sold seperately" are the trouble!

 

Bizarrely enough, I like soy milk; I drank it often when I lived in China and often still prefer it to dairy. What should I be worried about? The company I buy from is certified organic and non-rainforest sourced.

Laura

:ack2: !! You could do a search on these boards. The soy question comes up fairly regularly. I haven't actually found much definitive info against unfermented soy, but have read enough bibs and bobs to make me steer clear. And it tastes bad :tongue_smilie:

 

. And of course, Kombucha is brewing in my kitchen as I speak. And fermenting milk products is now second nature thanks to NT.

NO!!! I had a rough couple of weeks and neglected my kombucha and when I came back, I found she'd gone mouldy! Woe is me, I killed my "mother!" And my kefir has been left so long it has done a really weird thing and now looks kind of like brains. It's cool, in a neglectful sort of way.

 

:)

Rosie

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My doc says that there is disagreement about soy. It is about 50/50 as to whether it is good for cancer or helps cause it. I am not allowed it.

 

Sweeteners: xylitol and Maple Syrup only.

 

Grains: Their is nothing wrong with them if they aren't refined.

 

Fruits and veggies must be low glycemic. (Berries, apples, mostly green veggies).

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Soy (in large amts) is a consideration if you have a thyroid issue also. There is so much conflicting information about soy in general that I've chosen to limit it. I'm not going to freak about a little here or there, but I'm not buying soymilk and tofu and soy foods any more. I won't worry if there is a little in something, but I'm not TRYING to get it either.

 

BTW, I really wish someone had told me about the green smoothies years ago. I just made an AWESOME breakfast (I need to start eating before 10am, but...). I LOVE these things!

 

If anyone is interested, HighRaw is available free as an ebook at http://renegadehealth.com/blog/ They will send an email a day unless you tell them not to, but even those are interesting. It's a very balanced approach. I was reading it as I was listening to David Wolfe (another who is very balanced in terms of the food). I also found some podcasts free on itunes. AWESOME :)

 

My only concern with a lot of these people (not an issue with High Raw as far as I could tell) is the spiritual aspect. Some of them are very different and I have to skip over a lot of stuff sometimes. But I LOVE the food parts :)

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