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You could try reading the 15 pages of posts. Lots of people (myself included) answered this question.

 

Well,

 

I guess if I had no life and an extra 20 minutes I could, but at the moment my kids are more important so I guess I will choose to go take care of them instead of reading 15 pages of nonsense about cleavage.

 

To me, showing 1/2 your boobs means that attention is wanted and not for the right reasons.

 

Or am I missing some liberal womens rights lib crap in all of this?

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Many women have breasts that look even larger in a turtleneck. Some have sizes of breasts that show cleavage in a normal v neck shirt that would not show on the majority of women. Some look fine in the mirror before they leave the house and are shocked to notice when their shirts have lost buttons or shifted while they are out. I hope that helps.

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Well,

 

I guess if I had no life and an extra 20 minutes I could, but at the moment my kids are more important so I guess I will choose to go take care of them instead of reading 15 pages of nonsense about cleavage.

 

To me, showing 1/2 your boobs means that attention is wanted and not for the right reasons.

 

Or am I missing some liberal womens rights lib crap in all of this?

 

And so ends the intelligent conversation you'd expect and desire from your fully covered cohorts.

 

Joanne, so not the epitome of "liberal womens lib crap" (sic)

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:001_unsure:

 

Oh, no. Does that mean I have been rejected from the books club? I am not intelligent enough to contribute?

 

Darn.

 

I never fit in.

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I don't think it is any joke At. All. that God leads some women to feel personally convicted to cover up as a way to help another NOT stumble. Different people have different gifts and weaknesses. God places the people that are complementary together. That's NOT a joke. That men are naturally visually stimulated by the female form does not mean that it is good right or salutary that they pursue such stimulation in a wanton manner.

 

 

 

Scripture says there is nothing new under the sun and that ALL scripture is "profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness." Even the ones that may be dismissed as "culturally irrelevant."

 

I do think there are many people who express their humility and modesty of the heart in their dress, in their relationships with other people, and in their actions. The combination of those expressions will differ from one Christian to another though.

 

-------------

and i don't necessarily say this to argue w/ Joanne, but to give an opposing view of what she posted for others.

 

Have I told you lately that I love you?:001_wub:

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Well,

 

I guess if I had no life and an extra 20 minutes I could, but at the moment my kids are more important so I guess I will choose to go take care of them instead of reading 15 pages of nonsense about cleavage.

 

To me, showing 1/2 your boobs means that attention is wanted and not for the right reasons.

 

Or am I missing some liberal womens rights lib crap in all of this?

 

oh, puh-leeze.

 

now you're playing the "my kids are obviously more important to me than they are to you" card. no thanks. that's akin to me playing the "well MY dh is so caring that he's taking care of the kids and house right now and freeing me up to relax." it gets old after awhile.

 

yes, you're off base.

 

if you have already bothered responding to a "nonsense" thread about cleavage you've lost the credibility to whine about taking the time to inform yourself of other people's opinions. The usual discussion board protocol from here on out is to waste time, dodge, and continue to respond to posts and never bother reading the thread [that would have saved time in the first place].

 

what you're missing is the fact that there are a bunch of other women out there that are not at all into women's lib crap but still think differently than you --and I.

 

go ahead and offer your opinion, but as soon as your statements become a stereotypical blanket statement you open yourself up to criticism from people who aren't quite into fitting the stereotype.

 

now, on a nonsense thread about cleavage, one can either discuss the deeper real issues that some want to discuss, jump on the silly side of things, or roll your eyes and cut out to REAL discussion. there are hundreds of threads about IMPORTANT issues on this board. I'm sure that if time is of the essence you can fill your limited computer time more effectively.

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oh, puh-leeze.

 

now you're playing the "my kids are obviously more important to me than they are to you" card. no thanks. that's akin to me playing the "well MY dh is so caring that he's taking care of the kids and house right now and freeing me up to relax." it gets old after awhile.

 

.

 

Or my personal favorite: Variations of "I'm right because of all the PMs I've gotten from posters who agree with me but are afraid to post in your big, bad thread.

 

Oh, and your "rebuttal" response to me - but not really - in this thread? I agree with you.:D

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:001_unsure:

 

Oh, no. Does that mean I have been rejected from the books club? I am not intelligent enough to contribute?

 

Darn.

 

I never fit in.

 

you just need the right book covers :)

 

who's got the link to that page w/ all the nifty creative bras made to be auctioned off???

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oh, puh-leeze.

 

now you're playing the "my kids are obviously more important to me than they are to you" card. no thanks. that's akin to me playing the "well MY dh is so caring that he's taking care of the kids and house right now and freeing me up to relax." it gets old after awhile.

 

yes, you're off base.

 

if you have already bothered responding to a "nonsense" thread about cleavage you've lost the credibility to whine about taking the time to inform yourself of other people's opinions. The usual discussion board protocol from here on out is to waste time, dodge, and continue to respond to posts and never bother reading the thread [that would have saved time in the first place].

 

what you're missing is the fact that there are a bunch of other women out there that are not at all into women's lib crap but still think differently than you --and I.

 

go ahead and offer your opinion, but as soon as your statements become a stereotypical blanket statement you open yourself up to criticism from people who aren't quite into fitting the stereotype.

 

now, on a nonsense thread about cleavage, one can either discuss the deeper real issues that some want to discuss, jump on the silly side of things, or roll your eyes and cut out to REAL discussion. there are hundreds of threads about IMPORTANT issues on this board. I'm sure that if time is of the essence you can fill your limited computer time more effectively.

 

 

Wow, Peek, I did not expect that. Let me just think for a minute. Only b/c I respect you and really like to think about what you say. You are smart and logical and have an opinion worth considering. Maybe I will come to a new resolution.

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who's got the link to that page w/ all the nifty creative bras made to be auctioned off???

Don't know about that page, but here's a practical one.:lol:

 

"The Ig Nobel awards are arguably the highlight of the scientific calendar." --

Nature

 

 

 

Ketterle-Bodnar-Pamuk-Krugman-400pix.gif

 

 

 

At

the 2009 ceremony, Public Health Prize winner Dr. Elena Bodnar demonstrates her invention — a brassiere that, in an emergency, can be quickly converted into a pair of protective face masks, one for the brassiere wearer and one to be given to some needy bystander. She is assisted by Nobel laureates Wolfgang Ketterle (left), Orhan Pamuk, and Paul Krugman (right). PHOTO: Alexey Eliseev.

 

 

 

 

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There is no point. I don't hold as a value *not* showing cleavage. I'm not asking you to agree. I'm asking you to consider suspending inaccurate assumptions and judgements as to intelligence and character of the women who don't share your perspective on the issue.

 

Different does not equal wrong.

 

You are just delightful.

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Wow, Peek, I did not expect that. Let me just think for a minute. Only b/c I respect you and really like to think about what you say. You are smart and logical and have an opinion worth considering. Maybe I will come to a new resolution.

 

aw, heck -- you don't need to come to a new resolution! I'm just pointing out what happens on a discussion board when the discussion derails into blanket statements. :D

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I don't have any real opinion on this thread, but as I guy can I just say, wow, sometimes women can be really mean to each other.

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a brassiere that, in an emergency, can be quickly converted into a pair of protective face masks, one for the brassiere wearer and one to be given to some needy bystander.

 

 

ROTFLOL!!!

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Okay, well, sometimes, I will wear a shirt that inadvertently shows off some cleavage.

 

Usually, it is a t-shirt that I just threw on to match my pink Remington hat.

 

You can only see said cleavage if you look down the shirt at a certain angle.

 

Evaluate.

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ROTFLOL!!!

 

 

Please tell me the blanket statement I made again, b/c I have had a few glasses of wine and I simply do not remember making blanket statements.I do not like blanket statements so I would like to remedy it ASAP.

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Maybe I've missed something, but where has someone's intelligence been linked to whether they show cleavage? Or that they're a whore? Granted, I've skimmed here and there, but I just didn't see it.

 

I think cleavage-showing is immodest. I don't think immodesty has squat to do with anyone's intelligence. I don't think it's a cultural thing and I certainly don't make the leap that NOT showing cleavage is equal to wearing a burqa. Personally, I prefer to not give my Christian brothers a stumbling block. That's just me. *shrug*

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Ummmmmmm. W/o reading 15 pages of replies, I have to quickly say.....attention??? Look at me???

 

To me, it says, I have books and that is what makes me..well, me. My worth depends on my bosoms. I am not intelligent enough to get your attention through conversation so just look at my boobs.

 

How sad.

 

Am I off base?

 

That's the most recent.

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That's the most recent.

 

ayup. #141. That's the one that caught my eye too.

 

Ummmmmmm. W/o reading 15 pages of replies, I have to quickly say.....attention??? Look at me???

 

To me, it says, I have books and that is what makes me..well, me. My worth depends on my bosoms. I am not intelligent enough to get your attention through conversation so just look at my boobs.

How sad.

 

Am I off base?

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:iagree: You are just 1,000 times more eloquent than me.

 

 

Maybe I've missed something, but where has someone's intelligence been linked to whether they show cleavage? Or that they're a whore? Granted, I've skimmed here and there, but I just didn't see it.

 

I think cleavage-showing is immodest. I don't think immodesty has squat to do with anyone's intelligence. I don't think it's a cultural thing and I certainly don't make the leap that NOT showing cleavage is equal to wearing a burqa. Personally, I prefer to not give my Christian brothers a stumbling block. That's just me. *shrug*

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I think cleavage-showing is immodest. I don't think immodesty has squat to do with anyone's intelligence. I don't think it's a cultural thing

 

Sure it's cultural. There are cultures where it's immodest and there are cultures where it's no big deal and there are cultures, like ours, where there is a divided opinion. Some cultures went thousands of years with women going completely topless and it was not considered in any way immodest or sexual in their society.

 

and I certainly don't make the leap that NOT showing cleavage is equal to wearing a burqa. Personally, I prefer to not give my Christian brothers a stumbling block. That's just me. *shrug*

 

The stumbling block argument is exactly what Muslims use to justify their dress code for women. Women should have their hair/heads/faces/entire bodies covered (depending on how conservative the culture is) so as not to tempt men into impure thoughts.

 

My opinion is that at some point men should be responsible for keeping their own minds pure.

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I guess it's all a matter of perspective. I took that as sarcasm/not serious.

 

I'm pretty good w/ sarcasm-- that didn't sound sarcastic to me.

 

back to SWB's forum rules ;)

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The stumbling block argument is exactly what Muslims use to justify their dress code for women. Women should have their hair/heads/faces/entire bodies covered (depending on how conservative the culture is) so as not to tempt men into impure thoughts

 

Yes, that's why I made the comparison.

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DH: What you doing, honey?

Me: Reading an 18 page thread.

DH: What about?

Me: Cleavage.

DH: Cleavage? You mean rocks, earth science?

Me: No, I mean cleavage, as in breasts.

DH: Isn't that a homeschooling board? With homeschooling moms?

Me: Yes.

DH: Wow! (pause) I'll be happy to discuss cleavage with you if you feel a need to discuss it.

Me: Thanks sweetie. I'll take you up on it later.

 

an almost verbatim conversation I just had with hubby. I think he likes this board more now.

 

Janet

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My opinion is that at some point men should be responsible for keeping their own minds pure.

 

That is the total of my opinion on that point of the matter. Men lusted after seeing a woman's ankle when it was wrong to flash an ankle. Come on. People are responsible for their own actions and reactions. Give men more credit than that.

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Sure it's cultural. There are cultures where it's immodest and there are cultures where it's no big deal and there are cultures, like ours, where there is a divided opinion. Some cultures went thousands of years with women going completely topless and it was not considered in any way immodest or sexual in their society.

 

 

 

The stumbling block argument is exactly what Muslims use to justify their dress code for women. Women should have their hair/heads/faces/entire bodies covered (depending on how conservative the culture is) so as not to tempt men into impure thoughts.

 

My opinion is that at some point men should be responsible for keeping their own minds pure.

 

I was once part of a group of young people who were very conservative in dress. The women wore skirts. To ride bicycles, we were allowed to wear gauchos. Until, one day, a young man went to the men at the top and told them that it caused him to stumble. The gauchos were no more. Personally, I thought a lot more stumbling could come from girls riding bicycles in skirts, but don't go applying logic. I just couldn't imagine what this guy did when he went to Wal-Mart, or anywhere public. I just don't know how he contained himself.

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Sure it's cultural. There are cultures where it's immodest and there are cultures where it's no big deal and there are cultures, like ours, where there is a divided opinion. Some cultures went thousands of years with women going completely topless and it was not considered in any way immodest or sexual in their society.

 

 

 

The stumbling block argument is exactly what Muslims use to justify their dress code for women. Women should have their hair/heads/faces/entire bodies covered (depending on how conservative the culture is) so as not to tempt men into impure thoughts.

 

My opinion is that at some point men should be responsible for keeping their own minds pure.

 

When I said cultural, I meant modesty isn't just a biblical cultural thing; that Scripture wasn't being "cultural" regarding verses on modesty. I should have spelled that out.

 

And, to be perfectly frank, I don't really care how the Muslims view modesty; their theology and belief system isn't something I adhere to, so their modesty argument is irrelevant to me. How they define modesty has nothing to do with my beliefs on the subject. Scripture talks about not doing something that a weaker Christian may stumble over. I prefer to keep my breasts covered so as to not tempt anyone else. I feel that choice is God-honoring, and honoring to the men in my life that I respect.

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Scripture talks about not doing something that a weaker Christian may stumble over.

 

I'm glad that you are convicted in that specific way, but scripture also talks about cutting off your hand and plucking out your eye if they cause you to sin.

 

In both passages, it is fairly evident that our efforts in the matters won't solve the real problem of sin and stumbling, altho they might help a specific few people.

back to my previous post about the issue. ;)

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And, to be perfectly frank, I don't really care how the Muslims view modesty; their theology and belief system isn't something I adhere to, so their modesty argument is irrelevant to me. How they define modesty has nothing to do with my beliefs on the subject. Scripture talks about not doing something that a weaker Christian may stumble over. I prefer to keep my breasts covered so as to not tempt anyone else. I feel that choice is God-honoring, and honoring to the men in my life that I respect.

 

That sounds reasonable, I guess. Are you okay if atheists, agnostics, pantheists, and others apply this same thinking? They don't hold to Christian thinking, so they are going to wear whatever feels comfortable to them, without worrying if they are arousing Christian men?

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DH: What you doing, honey?

Me: Reading an 18 page thread.

DH: What about?

Me: Cleavage.

DH: Cleavage? You mean rocks, earth science?

Me: No, I mean cleavage, as in breasts.

DH: Isn't that a homeschooling board? With homeschooling moms?

Me: Yes.

DH: Wow! (pause) I'll be happy to discuss cleavage with you if you feel a need to discuss it.

Me: Thanks sweetie. I'll take you up on it later.

 

an almost verbatim conversation I just had with hubby. I think he likes this board more now.

 

Janet

 

 

lol:lol::lol:

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That sounds reasonable, I guess. Are you okay if atheists, agnostics, pantheists, and others apply this same thinking? They don't hold to Christian thinking, so they are going to wear whatever feels comfortable to them, without worrying if they are arousing Christian men?

 

I have absolutely no expectation that non-Christians would behave as Christians are supposed to. I don't expect them to adhere to scriptural directives about anything at all. I don't worry about what other people are doing, or about whether they're arousing Christian men. I'm not responsible for that, nor am I the morality police. I worry about what I'M doing. I do believe men have a responsibility to control their thought lives, but I also believe that it's cruel to push the envelope with them. I mean, if you have a friend who's tempted to steal, are you going to leave cash lying around? Probably not. To me, it's the same principle. I guess I prefer to "err on the side of caution". And, to me, there really is no real REASON to flaunt the boobies, so wearing modest tops is no real issue for me.

 

ETA: I can view someone's dress as immodest without running up to them and throwing a blanket over them. And, I can even view someone's dress as immodest without thinking they're stupid or are whores (unless they truly are whores--LOL, that's a joke).

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My opinion is that at some point men should be responsible for keeping their own minds pure.

 

Yeppers. What kind of opinion do have of men if we assume that they're not capable of self control? I pretty low opinion I'd say. I admire and respect my dh; he is, and I am as well, responsible for his own moral identity. Women who show off their breasts, or butts, or other body parts aren't.

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I only read the first 50 or so posts, so forgive me if I am repeating.

 

Some of us have uncontrollable assets. The "gals" have a mind of their own. They just seem to pop out without our knowledge. It happens. And oh btw, women have boobs. It happens. That is how we feed our babies.

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Personally, I prefer to not ... That's just me. *shrug*
:iagree:

 

I prefer not to as well, but noticing it on others depends on how deep it is, and/or how obviously avoidable it would be. I know it can be difficult to have no cleavage if you are over a D cup.

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Because we don't want the neckline to be all the way up to our neck... now how much... that's a different story:-)

 

Carrie

 

Evidently to get more than 6000 hits!

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I'm just wondering if cleavage is such a big thing, maybe those who feel so strongly about modesty would also promote genital mutilation. I mean the men in those societies really believe little girls (5-years-old) may have impure thoughts and should remain virginal until marriage. If we allow men to control us, or religion, or groups of individuals, then where do we draw the line? Would you opt your daughter for the above ritual. In their society it is quite logical. Let me state right now I am totally against this. But, to prove a valid point, who says what is right or wrong?

 

Another person's beliefs are just as valid as yours. Except when it comes to hurting people in the name of self-righteousness, be it emotionally (verbally) or physically. If brotherly love is the concept; where pray tell, is the compassion? Who cares if the woman walks around w/pasties on, if my husband gonna cheat, he's gonna cheat. You get what you get, and if you pick someone who thinks so little of women then that's what you get.

 

No man or woman has any authority over me, or for that fact you. Unless you give them the authority. My husband is not my God, and I would never impose human characteristics on God. But, then again these are my thoughts, just as you have your own thoughts.

 

Is it my right to judge the woman in the market w/giant mammaries, absolutely not! Do I know her story of why she is the way she is, NO! Do you? Who knows what her father or mother believed in, maybe mom was subservient. Perhaps, she's venting from years of high collared dresses. Then again maybe she's smarter then you think. Maybe, she doesn't need to prove her intelligence by showing you her latest list of books she's just read. Just maybe, she is secure enough within her being that the jealous, fearful thoughts of little people don't bother her. Or maybe not, who knows, and really who cares.

 

Obviously I do, not so much the cleavage crap, but the whole judgement attitude part.

 

Just thinking about this, and strapping on my boulder-holder on.

Forevergrace.

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I'm just wondering if cleavage is such a big thing, maybe those who feel so strongly about modesty would also promote genital mutilation. I mean the men in those societies really believe little girls (5-years-old) may have impure thoughts and should remain virginal until marriage. If we allow men to control us, or religion, or groups of individuals, then where do we draw the line? Would you opt your daughter for the above ritual. In their society it is quite logical. Let me state right now I am totally against this. But, to prove a valid point, who says what is right or wrong?

 

Another person's beliefs are just as valid as yours. Except when it comes to hurting people in the name of self-righteousness, be it emotionally (verbally) or physically. If brotherly love is the concept; where pray tell, is the compassion? Who cares if the woman walks around w/pasties on, if my husband gonna cheat, he's gonna cheat. You get what you get, and if you pick someone who thinks so little of women then that's what you get.

 

No man or woman has any authority over me, or for that fact you. Unless you give them the authority. My husband is not my God, and I would never impose human characteristics on God. But, then again these are my thoughts, just as you have your own thoughts.

 

Is it my right to judge the woman in the market w/giant mammaries, absolutely not! Do I know her story of why she is the way she is, NO! Do you? Who knows what her father or mother believed in, maybe mom was subservient. Perhaps, she's venting from years of high collared dresses. Then again maybe she's smarter then you think. Maybe, she doesn't need to prove her intelligence by showing you her latest list of books she's just read. Just maybe, she is secure enough within her being that the jealous, fearful thoughts of little people don't bother her. Or maybe not, who knows, and really who cares.

 

Obviously I do, not so much the cleavage crap, but the whole judgement attitude part.

 

Just thinking about this, and strapping on my boulder-holder on.

Forevergrace.

 

Oh snap! Being a woman of "endowments", I have always suffered from accusatory looks and remarks. Sometimes they pop out. Seriously, I don't want your man. I like mine just fine;). I am not stupid or less intelligent because God created me with a veritable Thanksgiving feast for my babies. I did not ask for these freakish endowments. Please do not fault me if one of my "ladies" gets loose. I'm trying.

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There a few other types of women. The ones who want other women to think they're beautiful. The ones who don't care if anyone thinks they're beautiful. And the ones who are ugly and know it.

 

 

:lol: this would be me. I do show a little cleavage though, it is about the only good thing that happened to my body after having kids, I went from barely an A to a full C. I am not talking about plunging neck lines, but v-necks, scoop necks and such. I like how I feel in those tops, no matter how ugly the rest of me is.

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I'm just wondering if cleavage is such a big thing, maybe those who feel so strongly about modesty would also promote genital mutilation. I mean the men in those societies really believe little girls (5-years-old) may have impure thoughts and should remain virginal until marriage. If we allow men to control us, or religion, or groups of individuals, then where do we draw the line? Would you opt your daughter for the above ritual. In their society it is quite logical. Let me state right now I am totally against this. But, to prove a valid point, who says what is right or wrong?

 

Another person's beliefs are just as valid as yours. Except when it comes to hurting people in the name of self-righteousness, be it emotionally (verbally) or physically. If brotherly love is the concept; where pray tell, is the compassion?

Forevergrace.

Well, the first paragraph didn't show much compassion or grace either.

 

There ARE those that honestly do walk around looking for attention. There ARE those that have trouble finding shirts that fit appropriately (I've been there). But there are those that do not like seeing cleavage anymore than they don't like seeing someone's rear end. One local post-secondary school I know of has a spoken rule, "no butt cracks, no boob cracks, both are inappropriate" and the majority of the women teachers are well endowed...so I figure if they are able to find a way to abide by it, then so are the students. And it's a secular school, no religion playing the field.

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I'm not here to find your compassion, or give you a trace of grace. These are my thoughts and only my thoughts. If this bothers you, you need to look a little deeper at the real reasons. By the way, Grace, is not something I offer myself to give, but, something I thought appropriate to name a beautiful blessing. Go figure.

FOREVERGRACE

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Oh snap! Being a woman of "endowments", I have always suffered from accusatory looks and remarks. Sometimes they pop out. Seriously, I don't want your man. I like mine just fine;). I am not stupid or less intelligent because God created me with a veritable Thanksgiving feast for my babies. I did not ask for these freakish endowments. Please do not fault me if one of my "ladies" gets loose. I'm trying.

 

Yes, I do know the feeling of miscalculated attire. Only thing is my man loves it when it happens, and perhaps feels a little proud of his beautiful wife.

Forevergrace

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