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Hehehe, the tone of this whole thread reminded me of an interview I saw a long time ago with Elvira. Remember Elvira http://www.elvira.com/home_2.html ? Anyway, the interviewer commented about how her dresses seemed to be cut lower and lower each year. She responded with something like, 'well darling, it's because my cleavage keeps getting lower and lower each year!'

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I think some of us have a different definition of cleavage than others.....a V neck t shirt is by no means "cleavage" IMO. Cleavage= boobies up on a shelf and a big wide scoop neckline where half of them are sitting out for show.....

 

Exactly. And why do some women purposely throw them out there to gawk at? I don't know, but I can't help thinking that I can't tell if they're coming or going! :001_smile:

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I think butt cleavage is worse. Oy! Feel the draft, my friends...feel the draft.

 

.

Butt cleavage! I have that! Not real cleavage, but I do have that other cleavage, and I show it off because my low cut jean are 2 sizes smaller than my high cute jeans and WAYYYY more comfy. Situps would help, but low cut jeans are easier.

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None of it really bothers me, but if anyone wants me to write them up a SOP for checking everyone's cleavage I will. I don't have the time to make sure everyone conforms, though. Maybe you could make up a group-Sisters of the Divine Matriarchy Cleavage Assessors.

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I'm kind of confused.

 

In a thread a little bit ago about breastfeeding there was this whole "breasts are NOT sexual, they serve a higher purpose, so if you see my breast while I am breastfeeding my child and think sexual thoughts that is YOUR problem and you need to get over it" sentiment.

 

And now we have a thread about how the slim space between a woman's breasts is too sexually seductive and we need to cover it up? I thought breasts were not sexual, they served a higher purpose? Or is it the nipple part is not sexual but the cleavage part is? Or they are not sexual while you are breastfeeding but any other time they are?

 

If it is acceptable/normal/beautiful for a woman to breastfeed in public and not worry about whether or not her breast is showing then I don't see why cleavage would be an issue either.

 

Just seems a little contradictory to me.

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I'm kind of confused.

 

In a thread a little bit ago about breastfeeding there was this whole "breasts are NOT sexual, they serve a higher purpose, so if you see my breast while I am breastfeeding my child and think sexual thoughts that is YOUR problem and you need to get over it" sentiment.

 

And now we have a thread about how the slim space between a woman's breasts is too sexually seductive and we need to cover it up? I thought breasts were not sexual, they served a higher purpose? Or is it the nipple part is not sexual but the cleavage part is? Or they are not sexual while you are breastfeeding but any other time they are?

 

If it is acceptable/normal/beautiful for a woman to breastfeed in public and not worry about whether or not her breast is showing then I don't see why cleavage would be an issue either.

 

Just seems a little contradictory to me.

 

Personally, I dont want to see them either way. When I breastfed, I covered and when I go out I cover.

 

Plus, I am reading Gullivers Travels right now, and he is on the giant island. And just saying , yuck.

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I'm kind of confused.

 

In a thread a little bit ago about breastfeeding there was this whole "breasts are NOT sexual, they serve a higher purpose, so if you see my breast while I am breastfeeding my child and think sexual thoughts that is YOUR problem and you need to get over it" sentiment.

 

And now we have a thread about how the slim space between a woman's breasts is too sexually seductive and we need to cover it up? I thought breasts were not sexual, they served a higher purpose? Or is it the nipple part is not sexual but the cleavage part is? Or they are not sexual while you are breastfeeding but any other time they are?

 

If it is acceptable/normal/beautiful for a woman to breastfeed in public and not worry about whether or not her breast is showing then I don't see why cleavage would be an issue either.

 

Just seems a little contradictory to me.

 

LOL! Funny how that happens, huh? Even on this wonderful board you can't keep everybody happy. ;)

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I'm kind of confused.

 

In a thread a little bit ago about breastfeeding there was this whole "breasts are NOT sexual, they serve a higher purpose, so if you see my breast while I am breastfeeding my child and think sexual thoughts that is YOUR problem and you need to get over it" sentiment.

 

And now we have a thread about how the slim space between a woman's breasts is too sexually seductive and we need to cover it up? I thought breasts were not sexual, they served a higher purpose? Or is it the nipple part is not sexual but the cleavage part is? Or they are not sexual while you are breastfeeding but any other time they are?

 

If it is acceptable/normal/beautiful for a woman to breastfeed in public and not worry about whether or not her breast is showing then I don't see why cleavage would be an issue either.

 

Just seems a little contradictory to me.

 

Wait - is it the same posters who post these contradictory opinions? I'm new here so I still have a hard time remembering who's who.

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Butt cleavage! I have that! Not real cleavage, but I do have that other cleavage, and I show it off because my low cut jean are 2 sizes smaller than my high cute jeans and WAYYYY more comfy. Situps would help, but low cut jeans are easier.

 

LOL, I don't think I could ever get over the feeling of needing to hike up my pants. My dd17 thinks I wear granny style:D

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I can't believe anyone can actually think that breasts are not sexual......ask any man what he thinks, LOL!

 

 

Any man? I suppose any heterosexual man from a culture that eroticizes breasts would agree. They are not a primary sexual organ. It's a sort of "thinking makes it so" situation.

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I'm with you, Michelle! I have it but won't show it. I try on lots of tops that I don't buy, but I find plenty that are stylish while also being comfortably in between choking and cleavage.

 

Editing to say that it's interesting to read the different perspectives here -- from "cause I want to (just a little)" to "if it shows it shows -- not going to worry" to a few like me who purposely draw the (neck) line just before cleavage!

 

 

I have it to show but will NOT! :tongue_smilie:

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I don't have cleavage, but I notice that when I wake up, the vertical wrinkles on my breastplate take a long time to disappear now that I am older and sagging all over. You know, from sleeping on my side and my arms and gravity squishing everything together?

 

These are as close I come to cleavage.

 

 

:D:D:D

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I'll answer this if you are seriously asking. A small amt of cleavage can be feminine; like a v-neck shirt or even a scoop neck some times. Books hanging out is, well, tacky. I do not look good with some of the higher necklines - they just don't work with my face. So, the lower necklines are just that - lower. Nothing protruding, no bra showing, and, in my unfortuante case, nothing anyone feels the need to avert thier eyes from.;) Some women just tend to over do it.

 

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

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In a thread a little bit ago about breastfeeding there was this whole "breasts are NOT sexual, they serve a higher purpose, so if you see my breast while I am breastfeeding my child and think sexual thoughts that is YOUR problem and you need to get over it" sentiment.

 

 

Well, I'm not exactly sure what you're point is, but I'm feeling some daggers thrown my way, so I'll respond. I don't think I ever stated that breasts weren't sexual, but I did post that there is nothing sexual about BF & yes, if it turns you on it's your problem. I stand by that & I'm not sure how this relates to showing cleavage for the sake of it.

 

If you have a disagreement with a poster's opinion that you'd like to express, a direct response to them would seem less passive-aggressive. At least IMO.

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Well, I'm not exactly sure what you're point is, but I'm feeling some daggers thrown my way, so I'll respond. I don't think I ever stated that breasts weren't sexual, but I did post that there is nothing sexual about BF & yes, if it turns you on it's your problem. I stand by that & I'm not sure how this relates to showing cleavage for the sake of it.

 

If you have a disagreement with a poster's opinion that you'd like to express, a direct response to them would seem less passive-aggressive. At least IMO.

 

Wow, jumping to a lot of conclusions here, don't ya think? That thread was a few weeks ago. I did not go back and look and see who said what and specifically target YOU. I don't have that kind of time.

 

I was simply referencing the general sentiment of SEVERAL people who posted on that thread (and I don't exactly remember who they were either). And I am not throwing daggers as I have not expresed my PERSONAL opinion on either topic. I am just pointing out the inconsistencies in these two ideas.

 

And if you knew me, you would know that passive-aggressive does NOT describe me.

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Did you read that thread? Some posted that same thought and got slammed (another FTR...it wasn't me. I read the thread though, all of it. :D).

 

Wow, jumping to a lot of conclusions here, don't ya think?

 

No, I don't think I'm jumping to any conclusions. I think the tone of your posts are very "haha, can you believe what some people actually think?".

 

& I still don't get how it's so strange to have 2 threads on the same message board of seemingly contradictory opinions unless you knew that the contradictory opinions were held by the same people.

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Maybe someone told them they look nice in what they are wearing.

Or maybe they feel pretty or attractive in it and didn't think of the cleavage issue.

:iagree:

I can't believe anyone can actually think that breasts are not sexual......ask any man what he thinks, LOL!

Personally, I don't care what every man thinks...just the one I'm married to, lol! As pointed out, there are men that find a well endowed woman in a gi distracting...and that is everything to do with THEM, not the woman in question.

 

Seriously, I'm a J cup. No, that's not a typo. There isn't a shirt made that I don't have cleavage/noticeable BooKs in. And I cannot STAND anything against my throat, I literally start to have a panic attack. Any tshirt, etc I own ends up stretched out at the neck from constant pulling on the front of the neckline so I feel like I can breathe.

 

Then there are the other times that I absolutely DO purposely wear low cut :drool: tops or dresses, because I'm going out with my husband, and he loves to see me wearing something that shows some cleavage, something a bit sexy...Wife Wear instead of Mom Wear, if that makes sense. No, not cut down to my navel, but at my size, cleavage is noticeable, especially when its a shirt or dress meant to show it!

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When you're 5 feet with a DDD cup (Impish, you've got me beat!) there is literally not a shirt on the planet that fits your shoulders, arm length, and books. NOT A SHIRT. If I find one that works in 2 out of 3 that shows the tomes, I'm wearing it. But I still stick by my original "cause I wanna". Because, well...I wanna.

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If I had any, I'd show it! Unfortunately, the ribs that show on my chest just somehow do not look attractive. Even when nursing, I had enough milk for septuplets, but wouldn't you know- no cleavage! I did get large lumps on my armpits and shoulders, where there are apparently milk glands. Not exactly the hoped-for effect. :lol:

 

Boat neck tops are my friend.

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No, I don't think I'm jumping to any conclusions. I think the tone of your posts are very "haha, can you believe what some people actually think?".

 

& I still don't get how it's so strange to have 2 threads on the same message board of seemingly contradictory opinions unless you knew that the contradictory opinions were held by the same people.

 

Look, you are new here and you do not know me and my posting habits well enough to draw such conclusions. I am merely pointing out an inconsistency. Your assumption of my tone above is so far from the mark it is laughable. Why would I be saying "ha ha" when you don't even know my opinion on either topic?

 

You seem like you WANT to be offended, so feel free. But you are making a mistake. Just consider that.

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When you're 5 feet with a DDD cup (Impish, you've got me beat!) there is literally not a shirt on the planet that fits your shoulders, arm length, and books. NOT A SHIRT. If I find one that works in 2 out of 3 that shows the tomes, I'm wearing it. But I still stick by my original "cause I wanna". Because, well...I wanna.

 

Exactly. I like how I look with some cleavage showing. I like to look sexy. It doesn't make me a woman of questionable morals or values.

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:iagree:

 

 

Seriously, I'm a J cup. No, that's not a typo. There isn't a shirt made that I don't have cleavage/noticeable BooKs in. And I cannot STAND anything against my throat, I literally start to have a panic attack. Any tshirt, etc I own ends up stretched out at the neck from constant pulling on the front of the neckline so I feel like I can breathe.

 

 

J? There is a J cup? Is that cantilevered with pillars for support?

 

Seriously, I am sorry. Most my friends with anything over a D with they could get reductions because their backs hurt so bad. Not to mention life is kinda hard when you have watermelons blocking your way. My MIL is the biggest woman I've ever seen and I don't think she's a J.

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I live in FL and see people in bikinis in the grocery store so I guess I'm over the showing of a little cleavage. :lol:

 

People in FL wear a LOT less clothes than I am used to!:D I saw this guy on the side of the road with his shorts rolled up into Speedo style I was :ack2: - Anyone got any mind bleach?

Edited by Renee in FL
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I didn't read the whole thread, I don't think there is anything wrong with a little cleavage, but nothing too much. I guess where the 'line' is anyone's opinion.

 

Hey what about the times when kiddos pull on your top. My DD has almost caused me to flash several times and she's enthusiastically grabs the bottom of my sweater.

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Beth Moore nailed this one in her study of Esther (which I'm in the midst of):

 

"Keep your breasts to yourselves!" was my favorite line from that portion of her talk on modesty, insecurity, and trying to get other women's husbands to look at you.

 

She also said there are two kinds of women (besides the rest of us): those who want everyone to think they're beautiful and those who want men to think they're beautiful--the second type she called "dangerous."

 

I don't how any woman who calls herself a Christian and has read Every Man's Battle can dress in revealing or tight clothing in good conscience--that book was a wake-up call to me and lifechanging for my husband.

 

Dressing in revealing or body hugging clothing is in total violation of what the Bible says about not causing others to stumble (not blaming women for men's lust, but as sisters in Christ, we have a responsibility to our brothers) as well as the Biblical teaching for women to be modest.

 

The bottom line, though, that Beth pointed out is that women who dress to get men to look at them are not understanding their worth/value in God's eyes. So, like everything else, it's a heart issue, but it manifests on the outside.

 

(if anyone wants to see the videos, they can be downloaded on Lifeway's Beth Moore store for $4.99 or the audio on iTunes for $3.99. The modesty stuff was in Session 2)

Edited by Myrrh
grammatical typo and parenthetical phrase for clarification
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I'm kind of confused.

 

In a thread a little bit ago about breastfeeding there was this whole "breasts are NOT sexual, they serve a higher purpose, so if you see my breast while I am breastfeeding my child and think sexual thoughts that is YOUR problem and you need to get over it" sentiment.

 

And now we have a thread about how the slim space between a woman's breasts is too sexually seductive and we need to cover it up? I thought breasts were not sexual, they served a higher purpose? Or is it the nipple part is not sexual but the cleavage part is? Or they are not sexual while you are breastfeeding but any other time they are?

 

If it is acceptable/normal/beautiful for a woman to breastfeed in public and not worry about whether or not her breast is showing then I don't see why cleavage would be an issue either.

 

Just seems a little contradictory to me.

 

Ah, Heather, once again you point out the obvious inconsistencies here. Very good. Very thought provoking. Good for you.

 

My answer to the original question of "why do women show cleavage" is simply "why not". If you don't like to look at it, just as with breast-feeding mamas....then don't. Some gals like to show it off and some can't help it, but it simply shouldn't matter: Your booKs=Your choice / Their booKs=Their choice.

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Dressing in revealing or body hugging clothing is in total violation of what the Bible says about not causing others to stumble (not blaming women for men's lust, but as sisters in Christ, we have a responsibility to our brothers) as well as the Biblical teaching for women to be modest.

 

The bottom line, though, that Beth pointed out is that women who dress to get men to look at them are not understanding their worth/value in God's eyes. So, like everything else, it's a heart issue, but it manifests on the outside.

 

 

This is a very doctrinal interpretation of what scripture says, and i'll state upfront that not every Christian is in agreement with that interpretation about causing another to stumble.

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There a few other types of women. The ones who want other women to think they're beautiful. The ones who don't care if anyone thinks they're beautiful. And the ones who are ugly and know it.

 

Oops, I didn't mean to say she said there were only two kinds of women. I just edited the post to clarify that.

Edited by Myrrh
bolding and update
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This is a very doctrinal interpretation of what scripture says, and i'll state upfront that not every Christian is in agreement with that interpretation about causing another to stumble.

 

This verse may be debateable (and perhaps I overstated it) but the ones about modesty are pretty straightforward. And the root of modesty--humility--is all over the Bible.

 

Without being "doctrinal", it really comes down to checking our motives and showing sensitivity to others--I don't think many would argue with those being Christian values.

Edited by Myrrh
add parenthetical statement
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Beth Moore nailed this one in her study of Esther (which I'm in the midst of):

 

"Keep your breasts to yourselves!" was my favorite line from that portion of her talk on modesty, insecurity, and trying to get other women's husbands to look at you.

 

She also said there are two kinds of women: those who want everyone to think they're beautiful and those who want men to think their beautiful--the second type she called "dangerous."

 

I don't how any woman who calls herself a Christian and has read Every Man's Battle can dress in revealing or tight clothing in good conscience--that book was a wake-up call to me and lifechanging for my husband.

 

Dressing in revealing or body hugging clothing is in total violation of what the Bible says about not causing others to stumble (not blaming women for men's lust, but as sisters in Christ, we have a responsibility to our brothers) as well as the Biblical teaching for women to be modest.

 

The bottom line, though, that Beth pointed out is that women who dress to get men to look at them are not understanding their worth/value in God's eyes. So, like everything else, it's a heart issue, but it manifests on the outside.

 

 

 

 

Perhaps we don't think it's our job to control the thoughts and behaviors of others. I think calling a woman who wants to look attractive "dangerous" is stepping into some pretty dangerous territory. It's a shame that so much of this thread sounds like misogynistic woman-hating.

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This verse may be debateable (and perhaps I overstated it) but the ones about modesty are pretty straightforward. And the root of modesty--humility--is all over the Bible.

 

The doctrine of humility is not debatable. :)

The legalism of dress is.

The two are not immediately interchangeable.

 

 

Without being "doctrinal", it really comes down to checking our motives and showing sensitivity to others--I don't think many would argue with those being Christian values.

 

well sure --but we also know that we CAN't please everyone at all times and can actually fall into a self-serving idolizing trap when we attempt to do that. There are certainly lines to be drawn, and it's also a two-way street.

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Honest answer from a short, well-endowed, non-Christian woman with a ton of v-neck shirts? We have boobs. They're beautiful things and a sign of femininity. I don't have many years left before they're too droopy to show off anymore, so I'll show my cleavage while it's still worth showing, and if people have a problem with it they don't have to look. I look much better with a little (or sometimes a lot) of cleavage showing than I do with a shirt up to my neck. Some people may look at it as an attention thing, but I look at it as a self-confidence thing. I feel more confident when I feel attractive, and I feel more attractive when I look feminine. Most high-necked, loose-fitting shirts hang off me like circus tents due to wide shoulders, the size of my girls, and my short stature. Form fitting, lower-cut shirts look better on me and make me feel more attractive and confident.

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