Anyone here with a dyscalculic child?

[Geo]

Just wondering. How did you know there was an issue? Do you have a formal diagnosis? What are you doing with your child where math is concerned? Does your child have other overlapping issues, such as dyspraxia, dyslexia, autism or adhd? What has been your experience with developing math skills?

 

Geo

[Geo]

Wow. I am feeling pretty alone right now....:sad:

 

Geo

[mattie5]

I have a daughter with dyslexia and dyscalculia, in addition to ADHD. She is currently in her third year at a private school for dyslexia. At school she uses Singapore for math and lots of drill. We have worked on mult. facts for 4 years now! She understands concepts but has a horrible time memorizing. Somedays, I can't imagine her ever being remediated but she has definitely made progress. The school uses O-G and lots of one on one; it is very intense. If we didn't have such personality differences I would probably teach her at home. Other, amazing women on this board have done it!

[HeidiD]

Just wondering. How did you know there was an issue? Do you have a formal diagnosis? What are you doing with your child where math is concerned? Does your child have other overlapping issues, such as dyspraxia, dyslexia, autism or adhd? What has been your experience with developing math skills?

 

Geo

 

I do. After my son's extreme difficulties understanding numerical relationships (and reading, and shoe tying and speech) became apparent, I researched dyslexia, dyscalulia, etc. and realized what was going on, and my heart sank. (He's since rec'd a formal dx). Anyway, remediating reading with O-G programs was the easy part - the difficulty with numbers was (and continues to be) much more of a challenge. I have bought just about every book published re dyscalculia, (the majority published in the UK - there seems to be more interest and research in dyscalculia in the UK than in the US). I have stacks of manipulatives, workbooks and also make up special worksheets on my computer as necessary. In short, I have to tailor the lessons and then there needs to be lots of explanation in concrete ways, and then repetition before he gets grounded in the concepts. I've deduced that his best learning style is visual/kinesthetic, and now that he's able to write legibly (another struggle to get to this point) his writing of the problems and math facts seems to have led to a huge jump in retention. He has been able to memorize the math facts using a variety of practice techniques (Flashmaster, writing out the tables, Seeing Stars flashcards, etc.). We're just starting long division (which I have anticipated with great trepidation) but surprise - he actually seems to be able to understand it!!!! :001_smile: A year ago, I would not have thought it possible. He learns best when math topics are addressed separately (eg. a separate set of lessons and workbooks for money, multiplying, geomtry, etc.). Separating the topics is the most effective approach in his case. So these are some of the things that have made a difference and I'm feeling more hopeful at this point than ever before that he'll be able to do college work down the line.

 

Anyway, you are not alone - there are plenty of us out here struggling with these challenges. I hope that some of the things we've tried will work for you, and if you have any other questions, feel free to ask. I have a ridiculously large math collection at this point (something I'm not proud of and I try not to think of the $$ spent, but justify it because I have 7 kids!). I've tried a lot of math programs with ds and learned a lot by trial and error. :tongue_smilie: I think that's probably the crux of the matter - every child is unique, and an individualized approach is the key.

[HeidiD]

Just wondering. How did you know there was an issue? Do you have a formal diagnosis? What are you doing with your child where math is concerned? Does your child have other overlapping issues, such as dyspraxia, dyslexia, autism or adhd? What has been your experience with developing math skills?

 

Geo

 

I do. After my son's extreme difficulties understanding numerical relationships (and reading, and shoe tying and speech) became apparent, I researched dyslexia, dyscalulia, etc. and realized what was going on, and my heart sank. (He's since rec'd a formal dx). Anyway, remediating reading with O-G programs was the easy part - the difficulty with numbers was (and continues to be) much more of a challenge. I have bought just about every book published re dyscalculia, (the majority published in the UK - there seems to be more interest and research in dyscalculia in the UK than in the US). I have stacks of manipulatives, workbooks and also make up special worksheets on my computer as necessary. In short, I have to tailor the lessons and then there needs to be lots of explanation in concrete ways, and then repetition before he gets grounded in the concepts. I've deduced that his best learning style is visual/kinesthetic, and now that he's able to write legibly (another struggle to get to this point) his writing of the problems and math facts seems to have led to a huge jump in retention. He has been able to memorize the math facts using a variety of practice techniques (Flashmaster, writing out the tables, Seeing Stars flashcards, etc.). We're just starting long division (which I have anticipated with great trepidation) but surprise - he actually seems to be able to understand it!!!! :001_smile: A year ago, I would not have thought it possible. He learns best when math topics are addressed separately (eg. a separate set of lessons and workbooks for money, multiplying, geomtry, etc.). Separating the topics is the most effective approach in his case. So these are some of the things that have made a difference and I'm feeling more hopeful at this point than ever before that he'll be able to do college work down the line.

 

Anyway, you are not alone - there are plenty of us out here struggling with these challenges. I hope that some of the things we've tried will work for you, and if you have any other questions, feel free to ask. I have a ridiculously large math collection at this point (something I'm not proud of and I try not to think of the $$ spent, but justify it because I have 7 kids!). I've tried a lot of math programs with ds and learned a lot by trial and error. :tongue_smilie: I think that's probably the crux of the matter - every child is unique, and an individualized approach is the key.

[Geo]

I have a daughter with dyslexia and dyscalculia, in addition to ADHD. She is currently in her third year at a private school for dyslexia. At school she uses Singapore for math and lots of drill. We have worked on mult. facts for 4 years now! She understands concepts but has a horrible time memorizing. Somedays, I can't imagine her ever being remediated but she has definitely made progress. The school uses O-G and lots of one on one; it is very intense. If we didn't have such personality differences I would probably teach her at home. Other, amazing women on this board have done it!

 

 

I suspect adhd in my son, but that is only a part of the challenge. Dyscalculia is quite clearly his greatest challenge right now. Reading has been slow but steady and successful thus far, I don't suspect dyslexia at this point. I am determined to rise to the challenge and continue to teach him at home. Private school is not an aoption and the public school...well, let's just say I have no confidence in them and leave it at that. Thanks for sharing!

 

Geo

Edited September 18, 2009 by Geo

[Geo]

I do. After my son's extreme difficulties understanding numerical relationships (and reading, and shoe tying and speech) became apparent, I researched dyslexia, dyscalulia, etc. and realized what was going on, and my heart sank. (He's since rec'd a formal dx). Anyway, remediating reading with O-G programs was the easy part - the difficulty with numbers was (and continues to be) much more of a challenge. I have bought just about every book published re dyscalculia, (the majority published in the UK - there seems to be more interest and research in dyscalculia in the UK than in the US). I have stacks of manipulatives, workbooks and also make up special worksheets on my computer as necessary. In short, I have to tailor the lessons and then there needs to be lots of explanation in concrete ways, and then repetition before he gets grounded in the concepts. I've deduced that his best learning style is visual/kinesthetic, and now that he's able to write legibly (another struggle to get to this point) his writing of the problems and math facts seems to have led to a huge jump in retention. He has been able to memorize the math facts using a variety of practice techniques (Flashmaster, writing out the tables, Seeing Stars flashcards, etc.). We're just starting long division (which I have anticipated with great trepidation) but surprise - he actually seems to be able to understand it!!!! :001_smile: A year ago, I would not have thought it possible. He learns best when math topics are addressed separately (eg. a separate set of lessons and workbooks for money, multiplying, geomtry, etc.). Separating the topics is the most effective approach in his case. So these are some of the things that have made a difference and I'm feeling more hopeful at this point than ever before that he'll be able to do college work down the line.

 

Anyway, you are not alone - there are plenty of us out here struggling with these challenges. I hope that some of the things we've tried will work for you, and if you have any other questions, feel free to ask. I have a ridiculously large math collection at this point (something I'm not proud of and I try not to think of the $$ spent, but justify it because I have 7 kids!). I've tried a lot of math programs with ds and learned a lot by trial and error. :tongue_smilie: I think that's probably the crux of the matter - every child is unique, and an individualized approach is the key.

 

Wow, thanks for such detail. How old is your son? What did his math ability look like at 7/8 yo? (looking for hope here). Our situation is quite similar, just younger. We have 6 children and have homeschooled for 22 years. Even with all that experience, I have to admit, learning disabilities are not for the faint-hearted!

Our youngest, a 7yods (8 in January), is just now learning to read (short vowel/3-letter words mostly). However, it's his profound lack of mathematics ability that stands out. Especially in light of his otherwise very bright mind. I think his case is fairly severe. He has a tenuous grasp on numbers 1-10. We worked on this intensively last year, all year. He can know them one minute, and then not be able to identify a number the next. He cannot see quantities above 4, at all. Even then, he can be stumped by a group of 4 about half the time. He sees and seems to understand only 1, 2 and 3...intuitively. He has the classic behavior of only being able to "add" by counting in ones. His one-to-one correspondence is quite spotty, often losing his place (mentally) and having to start counting back at 1, over and over. It's so painful to watch, sometimes I have to hold back tears. Many times he still "counts" faster than pointing to objects (just chanting actually)...showing his lack of understanding of the meaning of what he's doing. He cannot "count-on." He's not yet ready for Developmental Mathematics book 2 (which I only supplement with). We had to stop after a few pages, it was moving too fast. I have kept our math times pleasant and reasonably achievable by using" different materials but when you can't "do" anything, it's hard to "do" anything, ykim? This week's math has been multiple games of "chutes and ladders", just basic counting, one-to-one correspondence and number recognition. The dots just don't seem to click with him, unless he can "count" the dots. Even counting them over and over he never remembers them by sight. We spent his (first) kindergarten year with Right Start...full of dots, sticks, fingers and abacus beads...nothing but frustration. That's what really clued me. If I tend press even a smidgen, he gets anxiety and cries. For that reason alone, I've done lots and lots of activities from "Mathematics Their Way" which looks like activities out of "Dyscalculia Tool Kit" which I own as well, but can't get past the counting section. I have Tony Attwood's book (ordered it from the UK), but it's just so...well, clinical. It makes me envision white coats in an institutional setting...brrr. I absolutely agree with what you say about the UK and dyscalculia...not alot of help or understanding here on the homefront. Why is that? I am in the process of ordering a program from the UK called "Addacus" written specifically for dyslexics/dyscalculics. http://www.addacus.co.uk/products_book1.php The author is also author of "Beat Dyslexia", if that means anything. Ceilia Stone, I think. Anyway, it assumes no numeracy whatsoever, so that should be right up our alley! I do have one other concern floating around the back of my consciousness. Dyspraxia. He cannot tie his shoes, ride a bike in a confident way (even with training wheels). When I try to get him to do jumping jacks, he just looks bewildered. He seems hard pressed to even copy us doing the arm-actions only, and still aren't done correctly either. He isn't really able to eat very "chewy" foods either and ends up spitting out foods he finds as such. His handwriting is very...weak, though neater than I expect. I do have to talk him through formation though (we use HWT). He seems to have an extremely weak grip and when encouraged to press more firmly he over-compensates and breaks the pencil lead. He talks constantly and can be very loud most of the time. He is easily frustrated and still has meltdowns nearly daily, though he has been showing a desire to overcome that and is rebounding much more quickly than in years past. Definitely sensitive to clothing tags...tags are evil. Also, when I asked him the other day why he dug out his old Duplos to play with he replied, "They sound better than the little ones.":blink: I know some of these can be dyslexic traits, but that hasn't presented itself in any clear way.

In the meantime, the little idiosyncrisies just keep piling up.......

As you have probably guessed, he has not been formally diagnosed. Formal diagnosis or not, the dyscalculia is incontravertible. Besides, no money, no insurance. A public school testing route wouldn't bring any real relief, we live rurally and the local school budgets are so tight (cut backs) they have even ceased dual enrollment, let alone intervention for homeschoolers. That may change in time though. I am presently filling out mounds of paperwork to apply for state funded health care just for this reason. We aren't big on gov't assistance, but we'll do whatever we need to do for him. Still, not sure how far that will take him in the process. Thanks for listening, I really needed to talk about this to someone...most people around me don't understand. The few times I have opened up about it the looks I received were incredulous. Others seem to think the public schools have a "magic bullet" and "why would you want to deal with that sort of thing" attitude. So I just keep to myself about it.

 

Again, thanks.

Geo

Edited September 18, 2009 by Geo

[bairnmama]

Our youngest, a 7yods (8 in January), is just now learning to read (short vowel/3-letter words mostly). However, it's his profound lack of mathematics ability that stands out. Especially in light of his otherwise very bright mind. I think his case is fairly severe. He has a tenuous grasp on numbers 1-10. We worked on this intensively last year, all year. He can know them one minute, and then not be able to identify a number the next. He cannot see quantities above 4, at all. Even then, he can be stumped by a group of 4 about half the time. He sees and seems to understand only 1, 2 and 3...intuitively. He has the classic behavior of only being able to "add" by counting in ones. His one-to-one correspondence is quite spotty, often losing his place (mentally) and having to start counting back at 1, over and over. It's so painful to watch, sometimes I have to hold back tears. Many times he still "counts" faster than pointing to objects (just chanting actually)...showing his lack of understanding of the meaning of what he's doing. He cannot "count-on."

 

I have kept our math times pleasant and reasonably achievable by using" different materials but when you can't "do" anything, it's hard to "do" anything, ykim? This week's math has been multiple games of "chutes and ladders", just basic counting, one-to-one correspondence and number recognition. The dots just don't seem to click with him, unless he can "count" the dots. Even counting them over and over he never remembers them by sight. We spent his (first) kindergarten year with Right Start...full of dots, sticks, fingers and abacus beads...nothing but frustration. That's what really clued me. If I tend press even a smidgen, he gets anxiety and cries.

 

Dyspraxia. He cannot tie his shoes, ride a bike in a confident way (even with training wheels). When I try to get him to do jumping jacks, he just looks bewildered. He seems hard pressed to even copy us doing the arm-actions only, and still aren't done correctly either. His handwriting is very...weak, though neater than I expect. I do have to talk him through formation though (we use HWT). He seems to have an extremely weak grip and when encouraged to press more firmly he over-compensates and breaks the pencil lead. He talks constantly and can be very loud most of the time. He is easily frustrated...

 

Definitely sensitive to clothing tags...tags are evil. Geo

 

Wow! I could have typed this post (I deleted those portions that didn't apply to us) about my dd 8. She just turned 8 this summer and we've been in RS A for over a year and still taking it VERY slowly. She likes it better than any other math we've tried, but it's still hard for her to understand. She can't yet count on either, and when I model it for her she looks at me like I'm speaking Greek. She has been diagnosed with dyspraxia and just learned to tie her shoes a few months ago... but still can't ride a bike or write a sentence in less than 5 minutes. She can't stand tags or seams on clothing, pencil grips on pencils, or sometimes even sitting up straight in a chair. I don't have much advice to offer... I just wanted to say I'm right there with you!

 

A few things are beginning to help her with other issues besides math. The workbooks from Write From the Start for the motor planning issues with writing (we're still working on correct letter formation, too). Playing mirror games with cross-body movements, starting out super simple. Hand clapping games. Cod liver oil.

 

For math, I think a poster another board had mentioned www.dreambox.com. I signed up for the free trial and am really impressed. They use a virtual abacus similar to RS and other tools as well in a game-like format. They start out showing only row of the beads at a time so it's not overwhelming. Ds 4 is flying through it and is already on some 1st grade topics, but dd is still trying to get past the "more, less & equal" portion where they use just a glimpse at a flash card. She does get frustrated, but the goal of opening another backpack and continuing the storyline seems to be worth sticking it out and actually trying instead of giving up. In just the last week using this "game" she has finally realized that 2 groups of 3 dots = 6! To me that is a major accomplishment!!

 

I wish you luck!

[Geo]

Wow! I could have typed this post (I deleted those portions that didn't apply to us) about my dd 8. She just turned 8 this summer and we've been in RS A for over a year and still taking it VERY slowly. She likes it better than any other math we've tried, but it's still hard for her to understand. She can't yet count on either, and when I model it for her she looks at me like I'm speaking Greek. She has been diagnosed with dyspraxia and just learned to tie her shoes a few months ago... but still can't ride a bike or write a sentence in less than 5 minutes. She can't stand tags or seams on clothing, pencil grips on pencils, or sometimes even sitting up straight in a chair. I don't have much advice to offer... I just wanted to say I'm right there with you!

 

A few things are beginning to help her with other issues besides math. The workbooks from Write From the Start for the motor planning issues with writing (we're still working on correct letter formation, too). Playing mirror games with cross-body movements, starting out super simple. Hand clapping games. Cod liver oil.

 

For math, I think a poster another board had mentioned www.dreambox.com. I signed up for the free trial and am really impressed. They use a virtual abacus similar to RS and other tools as well in a game-like format. They start out showing only row of the beads at a time so it's not overwhelming. Ds 4 is flying through it and is already on some 1st grade topics, but dd is still trying to get past the "more, less & equal" portion where they use just a glimpse at a flash card. She does get frustrated, but the goal of opening another backpack and continuing the storyline seems to be worth sticking it out and actually trying instead of giving up. In just the last week using this "game" she has finally realized that 2 groups of 3 dots = 6! To me that is a major accomplishment!!

 

I wish you luck!

 

 

Thanks so much for sharing with me. It's oddly comforting isn't it, knowing that someone else is in the same shoes? I signed up for the free trial with dreambox. Do you have any clues what they charge per month?

 

Thanks a bunch,

Geo

[mattie5]

We wasted 3 years of d's life in public school. The teachers just are not equipped to remediate dyslexia/calc. However, maybe you can find a tutor if you need help. My daughter is now 12 and reads on grade level but is doing math two years behind (they don't use grades at her school). I really had to let go of my expectations and accept her pace! She is medicated for her ADHD and that has helped her tremendously both academically and socially. I think a big help, too, is teaching them to own their education and their struggles and to advocate for their needs.

[Geo]

 

A few things are beginning to help her with other issues besides math. The workbooks from Write From the Start for the motor planning issues with writing (we're still working on correct letter formation, too). Playing mirror games with cross-body movements, starting out super simple. Hand clapping games. Cod liver oil.

QUOTE]

 

 

Could you talk to me about "motor planning"? I have read about it online

before, but what does it look like in handwriting, mirror exercises, clapping games, etc. Oh yeah, and how the heck do you get cod liver oil into your kid every day?

 

Very interested,

Geo

[Dobela]

[ Oh yeah, and how the heck do you get cod liver oil into your kid every day?

 

Very interested,

Geo

 

Check out your local health food store. Ours has an amazing variety of Cod liver oil (and other fish oils) available. Some are specifically designed for kids in gel tablets with masking flavors.

[HeidiD]

Isn't this board great - fellow sufferers all coming out of the woodwork!

Anyway, I think maybe I can give you some hope here. My son is 10.5 and a couple of years ago, he was at about the same level of math understanding as your son. And I remember almost crying over it, as well. And actually your situation might be more promising than ours, since you don't have to deal with dyslexia along with dyscalculia. In addition, my son was recently diagnosed with auditory processing disorder, and the report concerning the particulars literally arrived a few minutes ago, and I don't even want to open it! And I also suspect ADD, although the symptoms of APD can mimic ADD symptoms, so that has to be sorted out. You're right, dealing with LD's is not for the faint-hearted.

I know what you mean about the false perception that the public schools possess a "magic bullet". It's not true with dyslexia and even less true with dyscalculia. When we were looking for help a couple of years ago (at about the same point you are at now) an educational consultant we spoke with who did testing for public and private schools and charged over $2,000 for a full educational assessment (which we couldn't afford anyway) told us that "they really don't know much about dyscalculia". Yikes!

It sounds like you have some of the same books I do. I didn't realize Attwood had a book about this - I'll have to check it out.

Physically your son sounds similar to mine. Once again, these things can be worked on. You could take him to an occupational therapist once you get health care coverage, or alternatively, there are books with programs geared to strengthening different areas: eg. balance, large and small motor skills, crossing-the-midline exercises. My son has been taking karate for a couple of years and I plan on putting him back in swimming lessons (earlier attempts failed because he couldn't coordinate the movements, but he's made a lot of progress since then). Karate and swimming are two sports that strengthen some of the underlying weaknesses you mentioned.

For math, I've combined the principles for teaching a dyslexic student (I have a heap of dyslexia books as well as math materials :tongue_smilie:) with the techniques for teaching the "right-brained" student (a lot of kids with ADD/ADHD seem to be right-brained) and this has worked really well. So the info has to be presented in very small and incremental bites, in a multi-sensory way, yet with an overview of the "big picture". The math seems to make the most sense to him when he can experience, actually "feel" (almost be a part of) the process. I read about this in a book about dyslexia, written by a PhD who was a special ed teacher with dyslexia herself, and this was how she described learning herself and teaching dyslexics. And she also described dyslexia as a constellation of symptoms, including difficulty with balance, left - right orientation, handwriting difficulties, etc. So there does seem to be an overlap in the symptoms, and some of the same approaches might help you with the dyscalculia.

So, in learning to count, for instance, and learning to "count on", I used a variety of methods and materials (including finger-counting, because the fingers are attached and handy, and help make sense of the concept). I have some of the "On Cloud Nine" manipulatives, which are horribly expensive but really useful. They sell a large cardboard number line which goes up to 100 but can be taken apart in increments of 10, and matching counting blocks which you place directly on the number line. This combines the concept of quantity with the numeric symbol, and worked far better for us than a regular hundreds board or an abacus, which wrap around at each ten. This way, the student can see the continuous nature of counting on, the "big picture". Another thing that worked very well (an idea I got either from "Dyscalculia Guidance" or Systematic Mathematics, Getting Started") is a number string. I bought some pony beads and strung them in groups of 2's, 3's, 5's, 10's, etc. in alternating colors for counting practice. This was great, because he would move the bead as he counted, which helped internalize what counting is really about (not just chanting the numbers) and the different colored beads helped him visually and kinesthetically experience numbers in groups larger than one. This really helped with learning the times tables also. In addition, we used the dot cards you mentioned, and after doing the above activities, the groups of dots made sense to him. While we were doing this, we were also working on algorithms in workbooks with simple, uncluttered pages. Although he wasn't fully understanding what he was doing right away, he was making some progress and then things sort of simultaneously came together this year. We initially tried Right Start Math (total bomb for him), and then various other programs, but lately we've settled on Mastering Mathematics and books from EPS for developing word problem and mathematical thinking skills (still using manipulatives and sketches and whatever else helps his understanding as we go along).

I agree with the poster who says you have to learn to accept their pace. My eldest son took the SAT II in math last fall, and when I looked over his practice book, I realized that it isn't likely my 10 yo will ever be taking that test! But we'll just keep plugging along and see how far we get. He's come so much farther already than I ever would have expected a couple of years ago, and I attribute his progress to finally figuring out how to teach him, and then just putting in the time every day.

Good luck - you can do it! :)

[bairnmama]

Sorry I haven't replied... I've been away from the boards for a few days. But I will try to answer multiple posts in this one.

 

Cod liver oil- I tried giving her the capsules, but she couldn't swallow them and hated the tast of the coating. She actually prefers the strawberry flavored variety from Nordic Naturals. If she balks, I just say she has a choice of the capsules or the liquid and she decides on the liquid EVERY time, lol.

 

Motor planning - With her handwriting, letter formation is not automatic. She has to concentrate on how to move her hand to form each and every letter and this makes her extremely slow. Also, her letters are either well-formed and all over the line/page... or hard to decipher and neatly on the line. Write from the Start is a set of 2 workbooks that develop the perceptual and fine-motor skills needed for handwriting. It's called the Teodorescu Perceptual-Motor Program. As far as the other games, I have her mirror me starting with very simple movements like simply raising one arm over her head and then slowly make the games more complicated. We only do it for about 2 or 3 min/day. I also have her stand with her back to a full-length mirror and reach around cross-body to touch a sticky note behind her (left hand to right side behind her). I put 2 on either side of her head, shoulders, hips, & knees. She has to cross her mid-line, focus on the sticky in order to touch it, and can see her movements as she's making them in the mirror.

 

Is this the sort of thing you were asking about?

[starwarsmomma]

My son is also.

 

I am running short on time, so dont have time for a long post, but it DOES get better! Hugs!

[Misty]

Yes, I have a daughter with dyscalculia, dysgraphia, Asperger's, OCD, ADHD, Synesthesia, and SPD. She is EXTREMELY advanced with the English language, but can't retain math to save her life!

 

Thank God for homeschooling!

[Geo]

Isn't this board great - fellow sufferers all coming out of the woodwork!

 

Anyway, I think maybe I can give you some hope here. My son is 10.5 and a couple of years ago, he was at about the same level of math understanding as your son. And I remember almost crying over it, as well. And actually your situation might be more promising than ours, since you don't have to deal with dyslexia along with dyscalculia. In addition, my son was recently diagnosed with auditory processing disorder, and the report concerning the particulars literally arrived a few minutes ago, and I don't even want to open it! And I also suspect ADD, although the symptoms of APD can mimic ADD symptoms, so that has to be sorted out. You're right, dealing with LD's is not for the faint-hearted.

 

I know what you mean about the false perception that the public schools possess a "magic bullet". It's not true with dyslexia and even less true with dyscalculia. When we were looking for help a couple of years ago (at about the same point you are at now) an educational consultant we spoke with who did testing for public and private schools and charged over $2,000 for a full educational assessment (which we couldn't afford anyway) told us that "they really don't know much about dyscalculia". Yikes!

 

It sounds like you have some of the same books I do. I didn't realize Attwood had a book about this - I'll have to check it out.

 

Physically your son sounds similar to mine. Once again, these things can be worked on. You could take him to an occupational therapist once you get health care coverage, or alternatively, there are books with programs geared to strengthening different areas: eg. balance, large and small motor skills, crossing-the-midline exercises. My son has been taking karate for a couple of years and I plan on putting him back in swimming lessons (earlier attempts failed because he couldn't coordinate the movements, but he's made a lot of progress since then). Karate and swimming are two sports that strengthen some of the underlying weaknesses you mentioned.

 

For math, I've combined the principles for teaching a dyslexic student (I have a heap of dyslexia books as well as math materials :tongue_smilie:) with the techniques for teaching the "right-brained" student (a lot of kids with ADD/ADHD seem to be right-brained) and this has worked really well. So the info has to be presented in very small and incremental bites, in a multi-sensory way, yet with an overview of the "big picture". The math seems to make the most sense to him when he can experience, actually "feel" (almost be a part of) the process. I read about this in a book about dyslexia, written by a PhD who was a special ed teacher with dyslexia herself, and this was how she described learning herself and teaching dyslexics. And she also described dyslexia as a constellation of symptoms, including difficulty with balance, left - right orientation, handwriting difficulties, etc. So there does seem to be an overlap in the symptoms, and some of the same approaches might help you with the dyscalculia.

 

So, in learning to count, for instance, and learning to "count on", I used a variety of methods and materials (including finger-counting, because the fingers are attached and handy, and help make sense of the concept). I have some of the "On Cloud Nine" manipulatives, which are horribly expensive but really useful. They sell a large cardboard number line which goes up to 100 but can be taken apart in increments of 10, and matching counting blocks which you place directly on the number line. This combines the concept of quantity with the numeric symbol, and worked far better for us than a regular hundreds board or an abacus, which wrap around at each ten. This way, the student can see the continuous nature of counting on, the "big picture". Another thing that worked very well (an idea I got either from "Dyscalculia Guidance" or Systematic Mathematics, Getting Started") is a number string. I bought some pony beads and strung them in groups of 2's, 3's, 5's, 10's, etc. in alternating colors for counting practice. This was great, because he would move the bead as he counted, which helped internalize what counting is really about (not just chanting the numbers) and the different colored beads helped him visually and kinesthetically experience numbers in groups larger than one. This really helped with learning the times tables also. In addition, we used the dot cards you mentioned, and after doing the above activities, the groups of dots made sense to him. While we were doing this, we were also working on algorithms in workbooks with simple, uncluttered pages. Although he wasn't fully understanding what he was doing right away, he was making some progress and then things sort of simultaneously came together this year. We initially tried Right Start Math (total bomb for him), and then various other programs, but lately we've settled on Mastering Mathematics and books from EPS for developing word problem and mathematical thinking skills (still using manipulatives and sketches and whatever else helps his understanding as we go along).

 

I agree with the poster who says you have to learn to accept their pace. My eldest son took the SAT II in math last fall, and when I looked over his practice book, I realized that it isn't likely my 10 yo will ever be taking that test! But we'll just keep plugging along and see how far we get. He's come so much farther already than I ever would have expected a couple of years ago, and I attribute his progress to finally figuring out how to teach him, and then just putting in the time every day.

 

Good luck - you can do it! :)

 

 

Glad to hear that progress can happen even after such a slow beginning! We are working really hard (sshh, don't tell him) on one-to-one correspondence and number recognition right now. I'd love to move forward but there isn't much foundation to build upon...yet. Actually, I did look into the "On Cloud Nine" materials. You're quite correct that they are incredibly expensive, though I will keep the numberline in mind now. Right now, I feel really strongly about buying the "Addacus" program. I want to be able to "open and go" with his math, something I have never been able to do before. We have spent way too much time on curriculum development up to this time. I want to be able to relax and attend to just working with him and not picking and choosing activities. I know it isn't a magic bullet, but at least I will have a plan each day. We actually had a good day today, mathwise. I pulled out Developmental Math again and we did a two-page spread. He was adding one more and two more to five (a nickel). I gave him a number line (for jumping). He did it all correctly, albeit mechanically. If I had given him single objects he would have just counted them all and missed the point of "counting-on." I don't like where we are at right now...I want to strive for understanding, not just robotic responses. Even though he completed his lesson today without any real stress or meltdowns...I know that no real understanding took place. He feels good that he got everything right...but I can tell he had no confidence in his answering. I realize I am taking a risk by casting all my eggs in this basket (addacus), but I feel the need to try. It does implement "stringalongs" which sound like your bead counting strings. It uses them for every number though, to help see the smaller number bonds within each number (numerosity). Thanks soo much for all your help and input. I will keep you mind when I need to talk to someone.

 

Hugs,

Geo

Edited September 23, 2009 by Geo

[beth in md]

Hi, I was wondering if the original poster Geo received the addacus program yet, and if so, how has it worked out?

[Renee in NC]

Thanks so much for sharing with me. It's oddly comforting isn't it, knowing that someone else is in the same shoes? I signed up for the free trial with dreambox. Do you have any clues what they charge per month?

 

Thanks a bunch,

Geo

 

Geo, I have an 8yo that sounds just like yours as well. He seems to have a grasp on 0-13 now, and counting to 20 is coming along, but he still can't tell you "8" when asked how old he is, no matter how many times we work on that. We're using Math-U-See Primer and sitting on one lesson until he masters it. I realize he'll do all this over again in Alpha, but I don't expect that he will remember it.

 

His reading level is just as low, but I am proud to say I think he will be partway through 1st grade skills by the time this year is over!