Would love any thoughts (Christian Content)

[creekland]

Ok, so I'm totally new to Christian Colleges as I had always figured my boys would go secular and just belong to Christian groups (as hubby and I did). However, my oldest needs a Christian college... He wants to go to third world countries and help them set up in business (or microfinance or similar) BUT with a Christian slant. He doesn't want to be a missionary exactly, but rather, maybe work with Christian groups that are there. We've visited secular colleges that had been on his list and they just don't have the same vision he does - esp their business departments, but also global development, etc.

 

So... we have Covenant, Harding, Grove City, and Wheaton on his list of possibilities.

 

We've visited Covenant and liked it - he REALLY liked it since their view matches his BUT they are really small (1000 students), not well-known (you graduated from where?), and are Calvinist (we're Arminian) meaning there are a few differences in our actual beliefs (predestination, once saved, always saved). Most of their graduates go on to do things with a conservative Presbyterian flair. His grades MIGHT get him decent financial aid as he would easily be in their top 25% of students.

 

Harding is decent sized (4000+) and more known (makes the books for Top Colleges) and Arminian, but far more conservative than we are (no music in worship, no dancing, curfew, baptism required for salvation). Most of their student body is involved with the Churches of Christ (85%) and goes on to work in/with that if involved with any sort of missions. It's a bit further from where we live. Similar to Covenant, his grades MIGHT get him decent financial aid as he would easily be in their top 25% of students.

 

Grove City is decent sized and much more known, but Calvinist though with a more varied student body. They do NOT have his major directly, but have classes that would kind of fit along the lines of what he wants to do if he gets into Entrepreneurship. It's close to where we live, BUT my son wants warmer... It's cheaper in cost to start with, but doesn't offer much in merit aid and kids tend to graduate from there with more debt than the other two more expensive schools. He'd be in the top 25% - 30% of students.

 

Wheaton is decent sized and VERY well known. It's non-denominational (YEAH!), but in that sense, tough to know what kind of teaching the Bible classes would have. They do not have his major directly, but do have a 'Certificate' program he can do with another major and is well-known enough that it should suffice. It's not warmer... It's near Chicago (my son prefers rural, but was ok with Covenant being right outside of Chattanooga). There's no chance for merit aid as he'd only be in the top 30% or so of students AND it's not cheaper to start with.

 

I don't want him to graduate with a ton of debt since his job will not be high paying (assuming he does what he says he wants - and everyone that knows him agrees it's a perfect fit). Economically I'd love to be able to say money isn't an issue, but it is. However, I can't really say which of the first two works - or any of the four. Should we just try all 4? If YOUR son (or daughter) were to go to Bible classes that disagreed with your views, would you prefer different (ie Calvinist in our situation) or more conservative? I keep hoping the perfect college will show up, but that doesn't seem to be happening... :)

 

In the end it will probably be our son's decision coupled with what we can afford, so I'm mainly looking for motherly advice along the way... or maybe just wanting re-assurance that my concerns are not really issues? Who knows.

[K-FL]

Go to Collegeboard.com & do their college search. There are tons of great, Christian colleges, the deal is finding the major, in the location, for the price you'd like. ChristianCollegeGuide may help too.

 

My dd is in her 1st semester at Palm Beach Atlantic, but if your ds wants rural it wouldn't be right for him. :o)

[LibrarianMom]

I would suggest talking to individuals who are already working to set up businesses with a Christian slant. Ask them what was most useful for them, where they went to school, etc. If he has a particular organization in mind, going to a school that feeds into that organization would be useful. Business as missions is a huge field right now. For example, I know someone who is helping natives teaching individuals in an unnamed country to plant coffee and then buys the coffee to use in coffee shops and internet cafes where he also does outreach.

 

Has your son considered attending Urbana09? If he can't attend this year, mark his calendar for December 2012.

[Karen in CO]

I would look at the colleges with International Business majors and look for ones that maybe have a strong campus church community. My Alma mater is what makes me recommend something like this - It is Eckerd College. It used to be a Presbyterian college and has a wonderful chapel in the campus. It is not a Christian college, but has a good support system for Christan including the on campus church. They have a strong international focus and have even way back before I went there.

 

Eckerd may not be the place for your son, but I think t hat if he want to set up a businesses with a Christian connection overseas, then a strong IB program is what I would recommend looking at, not just a business major.

[Susann]

Definately check out Taylor University in Upland, Indiana. Very highly regarded evangelical Christian. Rural setting with access to large city (Indianapolis-Go Colts:D) and around 2,000 students I think. U.S. News & World Report ranks it as the #1 Baccalaurate degree program in the midwest three years running. Most people know the Whitney Cerak/Laura Van Ryn story-the van accident where Whitney survived but was misidentified as Laura. We were impressed with what we saw.

[Starr]

I believe Gordon College north of Boston is non denominational and has good reviews for it's academics.

[creekland]

the deal is finding the major, in the location, for the price you'd like. ChristianCollegeGuide may help too.

 

 

Yeppers... the is absolutely the deal - especially finding the major. Most schools don't offer it. Covenant calls is Community Development, Eastern (not a place he wants to go) calls it Economic Development. Most secular schools that have it call it Global Development. Few searches - even that one - have any of those options (sigh).

 

I would suggest talking to individuals who are already working to set up businesses with a Christian slant. Ask them what was most useful for them, where they went to school, etc. If he has a particular organization in mind, going to a school that feeds into that organization would be useful. Business as missions is a huge field right now. For example, I know someone who is helping natives teaching individuals in an unnamed country to plant coffee and then buys the coffee to use in coffee shops and internet cafes where he also does outreach.

 

We have found some of these... but not many. A few that we have contacted have more or less said he doesn't need college and have pointed to a few week program here or there. Hubby and I are kind of set on wanting him to have a college education first. I think it will be helpful not only in what he wants to do, but in life overall. If anyone would want to send me pm's of others we could contact, I'd love it!

 

I would look at the colleges with International Business majors

I hadn't thought of looking for that... secular schools that offered that meant more along the lines of doing business in Japan/China/or other import/export venues. They never went 'down' to a more subsistence level. Perhaps Christian schools would be different...

 

Definitely check out Taylor University in Upland, Indiana.

Did that via their website as our librarian at school has a daughter who goes there and loves it. They don't have his major.

 

Gordon College north of Boston

I don't think I have any chance of getting my Florida born heat loving son to consider a place north of PA - esp when he has a school he likes in GA. It's hard enough getting him to consider PA or IL! Thanks for the idea though. It sounds like a good school.

[KnitWit]

Have you checked out Union University in Jackson, TN? It is affiliated with the Southern Baptist. They have really raised the bar academically over the last few years. I don't know off the top of my head what they have as far as what your son is looking for, my dd is a piano major. :)

 

(We are Presb. and my dd has Union as a top choice LOL! )

 

You might be pleasantly surprised. :)

[KnitWit]

Another thought, my dd didn't think that Union would be a fit for where she wants to go (not church music), but a visit with a dept. professor was VERY profitable. He and she connected and he was able to tell her how their program would fit her.

 

Sometimes the *labels* for degrees or courses are misleading and can mean different things to different people and different schools.

 

Good luck!

[FloridaLisa]

Don't know if these universities have your ds's major, but I've heard consistently good remarks about:

 

Cedarville (Ohio)

Biola (Los Angeles)

 

Mixed reviews on Baylor. I know Alma Mater that have loved it, it's a big school, good academics, but it's a big school, so I'm sure you'd find a mix of kids.

 

Lisa

[creekland]

My brother, an engineer with Xerox at the time, returned to school and got a certificate in community development from William Carey University (Pasadena, CA), which is associated with the U.S. Center for World Missions. He ran a community development project in n.w. Africa for a number of years...and on his "free time" talked about his faith.

 

William Carey also offers a 1-year "gap program" worth 10-15 units that is a very intense exploration of world missions and that includes study and interaction with a number of the different cultures who've emigrated to the Los Angeles area. I have a friend whose daughter just finished this program and she has great things to say about it. So....check out William Carey and the U.S. Center for World Missions, as well as an agency called Frontiers, which works extensively with folks who are "tentmakers" following a primary occupation and sharing Christ as well.

 

Thank you for those recommendations! I don't think we want a gap year program, but these look superb for groups for him to investigate along the line of what he wants to do - and perhaps to get more college recommendations from. I am passing this info along to him.

[creekland]

Another thought, my dd didn't think that Union would be a fit for where she wants to go (not church music), but a visit with a dept. professor was VERY profitable. He and she connected and he was able to tell her how their program would fit her.

 

Sometimes the *labels* for degrees or courses are misleading and can mean different things to different people and different schools.

 

Good luck!

 

Union never came up as having the major, but I'll e-mail them to see if they have anything that might fit. Grove City doesn't have the major either, but does have something sort of similar that can be tweaked. We only found out about it via e-mail. I like the size of Union, but it would be a couple hours further away for us (though closer than Harding!). It'd be easy to visit if we were going that way.

[creekland]

Don't know if these universities have your ds's major, but I've heard consistently good remarks about:

 

Cedarville (Ohio)

Biola (Los Angeles)

 

Mixed reviews on Baylor. I know Alma Mater that have loved it, it's a big school, good academics, but it's a big school, so I'm sure you'd find a mix of kids.

 

Lisa

 

Thanks for your thoughts... those schools don't work for this son (CA is a bit too far for us). Baylor is one my middle son might consider as he wants medical research. It's been suggested a couple of times for that.

[Kendall]

John Brown University is similar in some ways to Wheaton. It's also in Arkansas. They have some merit aid.

[Guest Katia]

I think you should check out Warner University in Lake Wales, Florida. They have a program called H.E.A.R.T. "Hunger Education and Resources Training" to prepare kids for working in third world countries. It is a very well-known program and very effective.

 

http://www.warner.edu/heart/

 

This school seems like one to work with your son and his vision. My dd visited there this summer as well as auditioned for a music scholarship and she totally fell in love with the school. She didn't expect to as it was so small, but everyone was so friendly and helpful. It's worth checking out!

[creekland]

John Brown University is similar in some ways to Wheaton. It's also in Arkansas. They have some merit aid.

 

Thanks - I'll have to check them out to see what they offer.

[creekland]

I think you should check out Warner University in Lake Wales, Florida. They have a program called H.E.A.R.T. "Hunger Education and Resources Training" to prepare kids for working in third world countries. It is a very well-known program and very effective.

 

http://www.warner.edu/heart/

 

This school seems like one to work with your son and his vision. My dd visited there this summer as well as auditioned for a music scholarship and she totally fell in love with the school. She didn't expect to as it was so small, but everyone was so friendly and helpful. It's worth checking out!

 

On a quick look, this school doesn't have anywhere near the level of students (academically) that the other schools have (mid 50% of SAT is 350 - 550). I really do want my son to study with academic peers for the educational value - then set out on his career. Everything else would fit though, so I do appreciate the suggestion. It just won't work well for what I want based on academic level.

[SheWillFly]

Should we just try all 4?

I'm not quite sure what you mean here. Has your son been to the campus of any of these schools? If not then I'd absolutely go to the school and check it out. That made a world of difference for me. Sitting in on a class or two within the major he is interested in and even a Bible class if that is where your concern is.

 

If YOUR son (or daughter) were to go to Bible classes that disagreed with your views, would you prefer different (ie Calvinist in our situation) or more conservative?

I personally would not want a more conservative teaching. I find the way the conservative Bible classes are presented make it more diffiuclt to navigate differences without guilt. If it was a different denom entirely then I think it would be easier to navigate while still holding to personal views.

 

Hope you find something that works for your son.

[8filltheheart]

I didn't read everyone else's responses, but I did want to share that your description of Covenant College's reputation is not my experience. While people in PA may not be familiar with it, it has a respected reputation in the TN. I know many Covenant College graduates as well as a professor there. If it meets your criteria, I would not dismiss it based on name recognition in PA.

[creekland]

I'm not quite sure what you mean here. Has your son been to the campus of any of these schools? If not then I'd absolutely go to the school and check it out. That made a world of difference for me. Sitting in on a class or two within the major he is interested in and even a Bible class if that is where your concern is.

 

I personally would not want a more conservative teaching. I find the way the conservative Bible classes are presented make it more diffiuclt to navigate differences without guilt. If it was a different denom entirely then I think it would be easier to navigate while still holding to personal views.

 

Hope you find something that works for your son.

 

With trying all 4 I mainly meant apply to all four and see what sort of financial aid comes along. We do plan on visiting those we haven't yet visited.

 

I think we might skip GCC entirely simply based on the fact that it doesn't have his major and is in the north (he really wants warmer than here). Having looked at Union, we're thinking it will replace Harding as one of our options. We'll have to see for sure as they don't have his major either (neither did Harding), but they do have contacts/ways and seem to offer a good Christian based education more similar to our beliefs in a little bit larger of a school.

 

I think I agree with you about attending a school more conservative than we are...

[creekland]

I didn't read everyone else's responses, but I did want to share that your description of Covenant College's reputation is not my experience. While people in PA may not be familiar with it, it has a respected reputation in the TN. I know many Covenant College graduates as well as a professor there. If it meets your criteria, I would not dismiss it based on name recognition in PA.

 

Covenant is the only one of the 4 we have visited so far. I will say it impressed me more than I thought it would - and it has his major directly while allowing a double major easily. We met Dr. Fikkert... and have enjoyed his (and Corbetts) recent book "When Helping Hurts - How to Alleviate Poverty Without Hurting the Poor and Yourself." Maybe I'm just hung up on the differences in our beliefs and the fact that it is such a small school. Who knows. In any event, it definitely remains on our list and I'm glad you spoke up about its reputation within its local area.

 

It will be relatively easy to visit Wheaton, Union, and repeat a visit to Covenant this fall. I still doubt Wheaton will be his choice with it being in the colder climates and not really getting financial aid from there, but it never hurts to see what a school is like to compare. Both Union and Covenant look to be good options at this point.

[KnitWit]

Hi again,

 

I just wanted to tell you we visited Belhaven College in Jackson, MS this week. It is non-denominational, but does have ties to the PCUSA. It is a nice campus, in Jackson with about 1000 students.

 

While they do not have your son's particular course of study listed, as Covenant does, there is something called the Omega College, in which they state: the opportunity to focus their education through a customized curriculum suited to their unique calling and career goals.

 

Also, there seems to be a strong missions group on campus and we heard of NUMEROUS outreach opportunities to Jackson. I thought of your situation, that possibly they would have some avenues for your son.

 

There are many different churches nearby and we met students from all denominational backgrounds.

 

Just fwiw :)

[coopers5]

My thoughts are that you can't go wrong with Wheaton, for one, since you mentioned it. Distinctly Christ-centered, biblical, well known, strong school, good reputation and it is in the suburbs. Not right in Chicago. Wheaton is a little town outside the city. Just FYI. I was surprised, for example, to find out from a friend here in my town that her son was offered quite a nice package from them last year. (he didn't go there) - I was surprised at how good it was.

 

Covenant - also biblical and Christ-centered. We know a philosophy prof there - he absolutely loves it there, loves the students, says they are serious-minded, top-notch. He has taught all over the country (and he is one bright and gifted guy) at great schools and says Covenant has been his favorite.

(taught at Calvin, Wheaton, Erskine, and now I'm not remembering the FL school he was employed with, & others)

 

For any of the Christian schools, you really do have to decide up front whether you are willing to incur any debt. It's just that simple. They just simply do not have as much money to work with, typically, and it's harder to get the "free money" from them. Though I know they do work with you the best they can. I have heard (and we shall find out soon enough, for my daughter plans to apply to both of these) that Wheaton is quite generous w/need-based money.

I don't know how far Covenant is able to go.

I do know that there is nothing like the experience that a college like either of these would bring. It would truly be priceless. You just have to decide what is most important to you.

 

We are also applying to secular schools, sure, and expect to be offered more scholarship $$ from them, but we're also stepping out in faith and trying with Cov. and Wheaton and Grove City as well because we've seen our God do great things before and know that nothing is out of his reach.

 

My daughter has been investigating Grove City quite extensively lately and is really itching to get there and visit. So, we plan to in Oct. There again, these are hard for me, because I know in my heart it's not likely they'd award her "what she's worth" academically, ya know? Not near what some other secular schools will do for her. But I just have to step out and see where God is leading. I've had two to go to Christian colleges. One graduated from Belhaven - loved it. Is a financial adviser now. Belhaven is a sweet liberal arts school in the heart of Jackson MS. Very strong in performing/visual arts, as well.

One is a senior at Cedarville.

Cedarville is great - truly. They are top-notch, truly Christ-centered as well. Just low on scholarships. The onlyway we did it was that my son earned an air force ROTC basically full 3 yrs. free schol. The first yr. was well covered by his academic & debate schol., etc. Last three free. He has a 4 yr. commitment to the service.

 

At any rate, God really provided in both situations. Both kids got great scholarship offerings. And we were pleased.

 

Hope some of this helps......

 

Jo

[Reesegirl]

Since you state that you are Arminian in doctrine, you might be interested in these universities. The Church of the Nazarene is Wesleyan/Arminian and has several universities. My dh and I graduated from Northwest Nazarene University in Nampa Idaho and 2 our dds have now graduated from there. Idaho is probably a long ways from you but there are a couple that seem to be in your your area or at least in the area of the other schools that you mentioned. I don't know if they have the exact major that your son would want but it might be worth it to look into their programs.

http://www.olivet.edu/

 

http://www.mvnu.edu/

 

Hope this helps!

[creekland]

My thoughts are that you can't go wrong with Wheaton, for one, since you mentioned it. Distinctly Christ-centered, biblical, well known, strong school, good reputation and it is in the suburbs. Not right in Chicago. Wheaton is a little town outside the city. Just FYI. I was surprised, for example, to find out from a friend here in my town that her son was offered quite a nice package from them last year. (he didn't go there) - I was surprised at how good it was.

 

Covenant - also biblical and Christ-centered. We know a philosophy prof there - he absolutely loves it there, loves the students, says they are serious-minded, top-notch. He has taught all over the country (and he is one bright and gifted guy) at great schools and says Covenant has been his favorite.

 

 

THANKS for these thoughts - all your thoughts help, but especially these two!

 

To all... thanks for the new college recommendations. I'll be looking into them. I'm thinking MS is a bit far to go for us with a college that doesn't have his major directly, but it never hurts to look to see what they have.

 

I'm not looking for 'no' debt (well, we all would if we could, wouldn't we?), but instead, he needs to have something manageable when he graduates. We hope to be able to help, but with this economy, one never knows, so the lower the better - esp since we'll have 3 attending college in the next 5 years at least one of whom will also need grad school. If he wanted a high paying field I'd be less concerned. Since his field will be low paying (though rewarding in other ways) it does make a difference in the total debt load I want him to have.

 

We had a contract to sell one of our investment properties. That just fell through yesterday... now I'm not sure if we'll get to visit other schools soon or not. Our income has taken quite a hit with this economy... I'm bummed.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I wonder which would rankle more over time, a disagreement over Calvinism/Arminianism or a disagreement over application of Biblical principles/standards to daily life (music in worship, dancing, views of baptism - I would imagine that there would also be issues surrounding alcohol, dress and dating that might be an issue).

 

From which college would he prefer to gather lifelong friends and a network of collegues? From which would he be most comfortable meeting his future wife (not a certainty, but many meet their spouse in college)?

 

I find this is a tough nut with Christian schools. One covets the support of fellow believers, but often finds a basket of restrictions that dance very close to legalism. As a parent, I sort of like the idea of an atmosphere that is less anything goes. But having attended a college that was very restrictive in a different modality, I know that many grads then cut loose in unhealthy ways once the outside restrictions go away.

 

Good luck.

[creekland]

I wonder which would rankle more over time, a disagreement over Calvinism/Arminianism or a disagreement over application of Biblical principles/standards to daily life (music in worship, dancing, views of baptism - I would imagine that there would also be issues surrounding alcohol, dress and dating that might be an issue).

 

From which college would he prefer to gather lifelong friends and a network of collegues? From which would he be most comfortable meeting his future wife (not a certainty, but many meet their spouse in college)?

 

I find this is a tough nut with Christian schools. One covets the support of fellow believers, but often finds a basket of restrictions that dance very close to legalism. As a parent, I sort of like the idea of an atmosphere that is less anything goes. But having attended a college that was very restrictive in a different modality, I know that many grads then cut loose in unhealthy ways once the outside restrictions go away.

 

Good luck.

 

Ah, you've been able to put my thoughts in a much more concise manner than I did! These are exactly the thoughts that my mind has been pondering - that AND how to couple it with what he wants to major in. Then I need to convey my thoughts in a guidance counselor sort of way. Fortunately, I've never had problems with my son actually listening to parental advice so I know he'll at least listen and consider my thoughts.

 

I think we've decided Harding is a little bit more restrictive than we want to go. Union seems a bit less so, but we haven't been there yet to see - and they don't have his major. We will have to try to scrape up the money to visit Wheaton and Union... then revisit Covenant since we'll be in the area.

[K-FL]

While your in the Jackson, TN area you can see Freed-Hardiman, Lane & Bryan Colleges. In Chattanooga area Lee is just up the road.

 

Here's the Wiki List of TN Private schools you can dig to see which are Christian (bunches!)