What do they teach in the rigorous upscale NYC private schools?

[HappyGrace]

I was reading an article on how they're so hard to get into (elementary age), they're VERY rigorous even from early on, and many of them funnel kids into Ivy League schools. I was just wondering what kind of school practices/curriculum they are doing in these elementary schools-anyone have any info/links?

 

(x-post general board)

[gingersmom]

There are more kids applying then there are spaces available. New York City has a handful of really well known private schools and there are other plenty of well respected private schools.

 

Its NYC so the schools are not huge. So whoever has the deepest pockets (ie: pays full tuition and makes nice size donation to the school) gets their child admitted. Not to mention there is a certain cache in saying that Madonna (new upper east side parent) sends her kids to your school.

 

Schools do give out scholarships/financial aid but the majority of the children are paying their own way ($30,000+/year).

 

In addition, plenty of the parents have amazing contacts. Thus guaranteeing that little Johnny and Susie will be getting into their college of choice.

[Reya]

I have almost never seen a private school curriculum that equaled my public school--which had a fair number of university kids but wasn't exactly the hottest thing ever. I was just appalled at the reading list of the AP English Language class at THE premier private school in Fort Worth.

 

Pathetic!

 

There's not a school in existence that would teach my kid on as high a level, on average, as I am. Not ONE. Sure, he might get cooler crafts and know a foreign language better, but I've got the all creamed on math, reading, history, and science. We're revving up in writing this year, and his drawing skills are exploding after only one week of formal instruction, so I feel more that a little comfortable here.

 

Exhausted. But comfortable.

[katilac]

Here's a list of 65 private schools in NYC and their websites. I'm sure some of them list a course of studies.

 

edited to actually add the link: http://www.abacusguide.com/NY%20private%20schools%20directory.htm

[Ida]

My husband went to St. Bernard's and my SIL went to Marymount. Apparently at the time Marymount wasn't considered as good as it is today. It's where rich people sent their kids who didn't get into the better schools, but MIL said Marymount at the time was a nurturing, happy place, but she always felt sorry for dh at St. Bernard's because it took everything so seriously (little boys wearing a jacket and tie everyday). Dh's family moved back to NYC after several years in DC, so had to scramble to find spots at any of the hoity-toity private schools having not started there from the beginning. Even then, spaces were tight and there were admissions tests for Kindergarten.

 

It's strange, but dh seems to really have a love/hate relationship with his experience there. It was extraordinarily rigorous. They had to take French and Latin. Dh didn't get very good grades because he wouldn't let his parents help him with his homework (or let his parents do his homework for him) like everyone else. It was all boys and could be socially brutal. Noone but noone had intact families. It was hard and he was generally unhappy (although a lot of that had to do with his own parents' long, messy divorce that was going on at the same time.) On the other hand, he does take pride in the time he spent there. It was an accomplishment and it really did leave him highly prepared for every academic pursuit since then. He has always said that every school he's gone to since then--Choate Rosemary Hall for high school; University of Chicago before transferring to Duke for college (UofC was a much better match for him; transfer was for family reasons); UNC-CH for his masters and PhD in history. Something like 17 kids from his 8th grade graduating class ended up at Harvard and many more at Ivy Leagues.

 

We are definitely not in the social class to send our children to that kind of school, but I decided even before we had kids that it really wasn't the experience I wanted for my kids anyway. It was extremely high pressure. They absolutely prepared those kids to be highly, highly, highly successful, but success was definitely emphasized over happiness or positive human relationships. Speaking purely academically, I KNOW I can not offer what dh's elementary/middle school (they called it grammar school) offered. From the get go they had teachers for each subject who were experts in their fields, native French speakers and Latin scholars, teachers for each subject with advanced degrees. They also had bottomless pockets and some of the best resources in the world at their doorstep by virtue of their location. And it worked. There is no doubt that they turned out highly intellectual graduates who did indeed go on to great successes. But there is so much more to life than that.

[Crimson Wife]

Several years ago, long before we started homeschooling, we almost moved to NYC and I started looking into the private schools there. The so-called "baby Ivies" ran the gamut of educational philosophies from progressive/constructivist ones like the Little Red Schoolhouse to very traditional ones like Dalton. The latter school has guides to its curriculum on its website (elementary, middle, and high school).

 

HTH!

[besroma]

:lurk5:

[momma2three]

I went to one like that. It was not in NYC, but in Boston. It was very academically intensive. Very small classes and teachers often had PhDs in the subject they taught. It's common, I think, for professors who can't fined a tenured position to teach at private high schools. And with the glut of PhDs out there, just because they couldn't get a tenured position doesn't necessarily mean that they're of a lower calibre PhDs who do. The teaching method was very Socratic, and of the type that you hear about in law school where the teachers press and press and press until the student bursts into tears and runs out of the room. Yes, that happened!

 

I'm ambivalent about it, because how could you not be about a school where the teachers would make students cry as a matter of course? :lol: But the education was really stellar, and I barely had to do any work in college until I was a senior.

 

People talk a lot about the connections, and I hate to say it, but that is the real reason. Small classes and an oppressive environment makes for a tight group. I'm closer to more people from high school than I am from college: and I liked my college experience a lot better.

[gingersmom]

:lurk5:

 

This is from 2009 :glare:

[Pen]

:lurk5:

 

Is this something you are especially interested in now and thus resurrecting this thread?

[threedogfarm]

I will always remember what one friend told me in college. He had gone to a prep school that was well known for its academic excellence. He said that he worked as hard there as he did in our college (an excellent, small liberal arts college where the work was intense). He said that by his junior year in college he was burnt out by working so hard for so many years. He was tired of all the expectations and the work load.

 

It's like training for a race--do you want to train so hard that you peak early?

[momma2three]

Is this something you are especially interested in now and thus resurrecting this thread?

 

Oh now I'm embarrassed for answering it. I didn't even see.

 

There was a strange post above Pen's that I think was spam. It looks like it was removed. I think Pen was responding to that one.

[kubiac]

I guess this is a very old thread, but I had never thought of asking this question but I'm now excited by the idea of finding another source of curriculum checklists/outlines. Among other things, my son's cousin is about to go to a $32,000-a-year kindergarten, and lo and behold, here's a curriculum guide for that school. I look forward to seeing what they offer for that kind of money!

 

http://classic.sidwell.edu/academics/lower_school/LSCurriculum04-05.pdf

Edited April 23, 2012 by kubiac

[momma2three]

I will always remember what one friend told me in college. He had gone to a prep school that was well known for its academic excellence. He said that he worked as hard there as he did in our college (an excellent, small liberal arts college where the work was intense). He said that by his junior year in college he was burnt out by working so hard for so many years. He was tired of all the expectations and the work load.

 

It's like training for a race--do you want to train so hard that you peak early?

 

This was my experience too. I ended up taking my junior year off. I went to a local community college to take a few credits... and boy was I surprised to run into about 5 people I'd gone to high school with in the first week! But we were all taking time off from our colleges because we were feeling burnt out.

[nansk]

Oh now I'm embarrassed for answering it.

 

Don't be. Your post was helpful to me.

 

I'm now excited by the idea of finding another source of curriculum checklists/outlines.

I found out about these prep schools after reading this recent thread. Then I found an older thread that asked the same thing. You'll find lots of good links from these. :)

[readinmom]

I know this is an older thread, but if you have Netflix and are up for a good laugh, watch Nursery University. It follows parents as they attempt to get their precious into the "right" preschool that is a straight pipeline to Harvard. We've been watching at work during lunch.

[kubiac]

Don't be. Your post was helpful to me.

 

 

I found out about these prep schools after reading this recent thread. Then I found an older thread that asked the same thing. You'll find lots of good links from these. :)

 

THANK YOU!

 

I know this is an older thread, but if you have Netflix and are up for a good laugh, watch Nursery University. It follows parents as they attempt to get their precious into the "right" preschool that is a straight pipeline to Harvard. We've been watching at work during lunch.

 

It's a pretty great documentary, isn't it? I used to have it permanently saved on my DVR!

[momma2three]

I found out about these prep schools after reading this recent thread. Then I found an older thread that asked the same thing. You'll find lots of good links from these. :)

 

I read those links, and the consensus seems to be "well, that's not all that impressive." But I wanted to say that I'm not sure a reading list and a list of skills is really the best way to tell a rigorous curriculum. I doubt the high school curriculum objectives are any different at any high school in the country, regardless of how good it is. In my opinion, the real difference between a "top" school, whether public or private, is the peer group and the teaching.

 

As I said, at my high school many of my teachers were PhDs, and the teaching was INTENSE. We could have been reading Calvin and Hobbes comic strips, but the level that we were asked to analyze work and the amount of effort that we were expected to put into each course was really much higher than my friends who went to public school. I had 5 or more hours of homework every single night: so much that it was pretty much expected that no student could actually finish all of the work that was assigned.

 

As for peer group, well, "good school" is usually just a code word for "school in a district where the parents are highly educated, and being wealthy doesn't hurt." Not because their kids are any smarter, but because their kids are expected to be successful in school, and are given the resources, plus a bunch of pressure, to be successful students. (And it should be pointed out that there are plenty of kids at "bad" schools with this home influence, which is why I always say that home life is more important than how good the school is supposed to be). A top private school is like the good public on crack... the kids all come from home environments where there is a lot of pressure to succeed at academics, and the kids are given the resources to keep up. There is also a great deal of pressure from the school, because if you can't keep up, you're out. The top privates weed out students pretty ruthlessly. In my school, two students with famous and influential parents were asked to leave, and another student who was the child of a teacher at the school. They just wouldn't or couldn't keep up with the work. This sort of pressure keeps the kids very intellectually active, eager to participate in class at a high level (not that you have much of a choice when your classes usually have 6-12 kids in them and a teacher barking questions at you), and intent on going above and beyond even the sky-high requirements.

 

I'll go on record as saying there's not much healthy about sticking adolescents into an environment like this. And it certainly has a lot less to do with intrinsic smarts than it does with drive and hard work and the ability to succeed under pressure. There were a bunch of kids in my graduating class who weren't the sharpest tools in the box, and some extremely intelligent kids I knew were asked to leave. But it is what it is, and the reason colleges like these kids is because they know the kids can succeed under pressure. There are other private schools (that are equally as expensive, I should point out) without as much pressure, and they're a better environment for some (probably most) kids, but their reputation with colleges just isn't as good.

 

Sorry this was a long post, but I just wanted to say that having gone to both public and private schools (and I was home schooled a bit, too), the difference between the top privates, the mediocre privates, and any public school is in the environment, and not due to any curriculum written on paper.

[AngelaNYC]

Yes, the NYC private school admission process is very competitive and crazy (as is the high school admission process here). Nursery University is exactly what parents go through for certain preschools. There's a forum called Urbanbaby where hundreds of parents commiserate and lament. I chose the public school route - NYC's specialized and top-tier public schools are equal to or better than the privates. In regard to a previous post, Madonna's daughter goes to my daughter's school (actually, they are science lab partners. Robert Deniro's son is in her English class). I just don't put any stock in all the private school hype. IMO, people just go for the name, prefer less diversity, and think that more money equals better education.

[Shifra]

I went to a parochial girls school in Baltimore that was not academically competitive, but I did read in Mothers by Alexandra Stoddard about her daughters' and granddaughter's experiences in The Spence School in New York. From her brief descriptions in her books, it sounds like they have unlimited resources to give the girls all the chances that upper class (and probably middle class) parents want. Like ballet class as part of the school day, not something you have after school. It does sound like a dream; however, she does hint to the school having a overemphasis on getting into the "right" college, as opposed to following your dream.

[kubiac]

Sorry this was a long post, but I just wanted to say that having gone to both public and private schools (and I was home schooled a bit, too), the difference between the top privates, the mediocre privates, and any public school is in the environment, and not due to any curriculum written on paper.

 

Thank you for sharing this whole post. Your POV synchronizes with my general impressions on this matter, but it's very valuable to hear this from an "insider."

[Kathleen in LV]

I guess this is a very old thread, but I had never thought of asking this question but I'm now excited by the idea of finding another source of curriculum checklists/outlines. Among other things, my son's cousin is about to go to a $32,000-a-year kindergarten, and lo and behold, here's a curriculum guide for that school. I look forward to seeing what they offer for that kind of money!

 

http://classic.sidwell.edu/academics/lower_school/LSCurriculum04-05.pdf

 

 

FWIW, I heard from a teacher at Sidwell that they use Singapore math in the lower school. (This is the school the Obama daughters attend, as well as many other children of "important" DC families - I think Biden has one or more grandchildren who attend as well.)

[Beth in SW WA]

Thank you for sharing this whole post. Your POV synchronizes with my general impressions on this matter, but it's very valuable to hear this from an "insider."

 

:iagree:

[Pen]

Oh now I'm embarrassed for answering it. I didn't even see.

 

There was a strange post above Pen's that I think was spam. It looks like it was removed. I think Pen was responding to that one.

 

No, don't be embarrassed. I would tend to assume that if someone has dug up an old thread it probably was because that person was interested in the subject and did a search and the old thread came up. I just wanted to check before I spent time on something that was an accident.

 

It looks like there is interest!

 

I got to go to one of the progressive type NYC schools for just a short time while living there temporarily. It was wonderful with a huge range of offerings in academic areas (which I think are also mostly quite available now to homeschoolers), and also in theater and music (which is harder to get at home at least in terms of performance with others, but can be sought out in some locations. Still, it is hard to equal what NYC has just in terms of things like museums or performances to attend.) The cost, even then, even for a short time, was astronomical, but I learned more there than in the rest of my total pre-college years. I don't know if I would have felt burnt out if I had been there longer, but I don't think so. I didn't have that feeling from other students who had been there from primary school to graduation. It was ungraded, which meant less pressure and more freedom to pursue interests without worrying about competition as against others. What was mainly emphasized in the other schools (not NYC schools) I went to tended to be athletics, but even when they were more academic leaning it was just in no way equal to the NYC school--the difference being any number of factors, certainly including the teaching and students and also the curriculum. Mine was Saint Ann's School. It has I have been told, at least in some years, been the number 1 rated school in NYC -- I have no idea how the rating is done or by whom, I was just told that was the case. If you want to look at its curriculum I think it has some on that at its website www.saintannsny.org/.

 

New York City also has some wonderful public schools at least at the high school level, like Stuyvesant, and their curriculum would also be worth looking at, in my opinion. Stuyvesant is known for its math and science program, but I think was also excellent in English and other areas as well. Again it is known to have excellent students and teachers both.

Edited April 25, 2012 by Pen

[kubiac]

FWIW, I heard from a teacher at Sidwell that they use Singapore math in the lower school. (This is the school the Obama daughters attend, as well as many other children of "important" DC families - I think Biden has one or more grandchildren who attend as well.)

 

Interesting! Thank you!

[thefragile7393]

I guess this is a very old thread, but I had never thought of asking this question but I'm now excited by the idea of finding another source of curriculum checklists/outlines. Among other things, my son's cousin is about to go to a $32,000-a-year kindergarten, and lo and behold, here's a curriculum guide for that school. I look forward to seeing what they offer for that kind of money!

 

http://classic.sidwell.edu/academics/lower_school/LSCurriculum04-05.pdf

This is where Chelsea Clinton went to school as well.

 

I've seen Nursery University mentioned in these threads and I watched that....wow. Just...wow. Just for preschool! It was pretty amazing.

[MouseBandit]

Yeah, after reading this thread I had to watch Nursery University. I can't even imagine! Up until the very end of the movie, it sounded like there simply wasn't any other option for *any* preschool besides those ones, but of course the one family finally just went with a co-op preschool.

 

I'm all for academic excellence, and don't begrudge other people spending their money however they want, but there is no way I would EVER shell out that kind of money for preschool or kindergarten, etc. Imagine the kind of money being spent on those schools over the course of 12-14 years, and I just picture all the investment real estate that could be purchased for a trust fund instead, LOL! Seems crazy to me!

 

Tracey in Oregon (yep - I'm a cheap redneck, ha ha!)

[Crimson Wife]

NYC's specialized and top-tier public schools are equal to or better than the privates.

 

From what I hear, it's crazy difficult to get into the decent public schools in NYC as well. My cousin lives in Brooklyn and his daughter will be attending K next fall. He was telling me that there were something like 4 times as many kids who qualified for the GATE schools as there are slots. Insane!

[Joyofsixreboot]

.....

I'm all for academic excellence, and don't begrudge other people spending their money however they want, but there is no way I would EVER shell out that kind of money for preschool or kindergarten, etc. ......Seems crazy to me!

 

Tracey in Oregon (yep - I'm a cheap redneck, ha ha!)

 

:iagree: I'm living in a whole 'nother redneck world too.