Blueridge Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 Please forgive me for whining. I need advice. You are my friends. Give me a swift kick if needed. :D I deleted this before, but I have reconsidered. Here goes: ...what would you do? We house church with a nice family. They befriended us when we knew nobody here. They have been kind to us. We consider them friends and hope they do us as well. But nice family has an unfortunate problem with pride (I may, too). They have much. They experience much. That's their life and I am happy for them. We live a quiet, humble life, so it isn't exciting lol, but a good life nonetheless. I do not wish to sound unkind. Their youngest dd is coddled as a princess (they do not think so, but it is painfully obvious to everyone, but nobody ever says anything, kwim?) and she has been making jabs that she thinks are funny at my 16dd for 2 years now. Things like, "You don't even know THAT (history trivia)?? ha ha ha" or "I got to spend 2 whole weeks at xyz place...it was fantastic...I'm glad my friend so in so got to come with us...have YOU gone anywhere this whole year? ha ha ha" Stupid and childish, but good grief, knock it off! We did not know until recently when her (secret and well hidden from her parents) jealousy appeared in print. She wrote a very long, very jealous-hearted, very hateful blog entry on their shared humor blog. My dd read it and sent it to me, begging for help in knowing what to do. The gist of it was treating my dd with scorn, stomping on her and causing her physical pain to the point of near death because she was *prideful*. How ironic. My dd is a joy and a tremendous, very intelligent, yet humble human being. She has so little, but is so thankful for what she does have. I calmed down, and called her mom and very gently humbled myself (I hate being an introvert) and let her know about the blog entry so she or her husband could have it deleted. A week of silence and then a call from her. She only said that their dd had meant it in fun. She never thought it would be perceived as anything but a joke. They did nothing about that child's jealous issue. So here we are. We are uncomfortable and don't know how to handle the Sundays when they are available to host us (we haven't had service since June, since they've been on trips and such). I guess we're just broken hearted. I wish I was in church this morning but there aren't a lot of choices. WWYD? Please forgive me if I have rambled or sounded gossipy, and thank you for your insight. __________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anne Rittenhouse Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 It's either time to house church by yourselves or find a "brick and mortar" place of worship where your entire family can develop healthy friendships with a variety of people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FourOaks Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 My heart is breaking for you now and I feel your pain. You have already taken a step at trying to bring to light the problem for the parents and were met with what appears to be disregard. It sounds like your only options (other than ignoring everything and plodding along as though everything is fine) are to either humble yourself again, or find something else as the pp mentioned. You could try once more to talk with the parents (I would find this very, very hard to do) and explain how hurtful their daughters comments and writings truly are. From what you've written here, unless this issue can be openly discussed and worked through, it doesn't seem that there is much of a true, godly relationship and you should probably move on. Just my opinion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starr Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 Our dd says there is nothing worse than snotty, home-schooled, Christian girls that think they are too good to make mistakes or be unkind. I rather like the name for a rock band, Snotty Christian Girls. :lol: It's difficult but I think it's time for your family to make a change. You don't have to say why and I would advise not getting into a discussion with them. I did not follow this advice and I wish I had. They will not understand or believe you. My prayers are with all of you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ma23peas Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 If you want them as friends, don't tolerate it, if you merely want to be cordial...and provide your daughter with coping skills, then pray for them...too many times we see the speck in someone and focus more on how that speck affects us. Use this as a learning lesson, imagine how that speck will affect the person who has it. We often take these times to encourage and show our children HOW to pray specifically for these specks...her parents have heard her say these statements and their pride wins out over responsibly teaching her... Here's where a good episode of LHOP (Nellie Olson) comes in handy....there is nothing wrong with saying, "the way you say things are hurtful" if you get "I'm only kidding"...then come back with, "if you're the only one who finds it funny, it's not kidding it's mean." Be matter of factly and take time to encourage the traits in this child that need to be exploited...everyone has some good points...if she's helpful in anything, thank her genuinely...doubt she gets a lot of genuine reinforcement at home...they're much too focused on the wrong things... Good luck! Tara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueridge Posted August 23, 2009 Author Share Posted August 23, 2009 Ladies, thank you for your encouragement. I honestly agree with you all. We just don't know what TO say about leaving their 'fellowship'. A rotten situation that has left us feeling like 'a man without a country'. Thanks again~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danestress Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 "Dh and I just loved having church with you so much, but it's become to hard for DD. We've always taught our children that it's never okay to have humor at someone else's expense or to be mean to someone and call it 'funny.' I believe your daughter meant to be funny if that's what she's telling you, but there is just a pattern of meanness to my daughter, and even though it might seem funny to you, it's just causing DD a lot of pain. We don't see this changing, so we are going to switch churches. This is a tough choice because we really like you so much, but ultimately we think it's best for DD." I know that's more honest than some would be, but I really think the truth is a good things sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avila Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 "Dh and I just loved having church with you so much, but it's become to hard for DD. We've always taught our children that it's never okay to have humor at someone else's expense or to be mean to someone and call it 'funny.' I believe your daughter meant to be funny if that's what she's telling you, but there is just a pattern of meanness to my daughter, and even though it might seem funny to you, it's just causing DD a lot of pain. We don't see this changing, so we are going to switch churches. This is a tough choice because we really like you so much, but ultimately we think it's best for DD." I know that's more honest than some would be, but I really think the truth is a good things sometimes. :iagree: Really good stuff here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mama Bear Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 "Dh and I just loved having church with you so much, but it's become to hard for DD. We've always taught our children that it's never okay to have humor at someone else's expense or to be mean to someone and call it 'funny.' I believe your daughter meant to be funny if that's what she's telling you, but there is just a pattern of meanness to my daughter, and even though it might seem funny to you, it's just causing DD a lot of pain. We don't see this changing, so we are going to switch churches. This is a tough choice because we really like you so much, but ultimately we think it's best for DD." I know that's more honest than some would be, but I really think the truth is a good things sometimes. :iagree: In this situation, there's no finessing your next move. And you should feel no shame in being direct. You've given them the opportunity to reply with humility and kindness, they've opted not to, their response does not support the way you want your children to see and experience this world, especially not church. As painful as this is, breathe deeply and be strengthened in the knowledge that you're doing the right thing for your kids. And kindly, at that. Once upon a time, in your shoes, I would have been terribly worried about how I was going to be received and dealt with, were I to reply the way Danestress suggested. Here's the thing: they already see you and your family as not worthy of respect. They're treating you badly and they think they can get away with it. You've initiated Matt 18 already. Follow through, dear, and may your whole family heal quickly from this experience, growing even stronger for it. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 "Dh and I just loved having church with you so much, but it's become to hard for DD. We've always taught our children that it's never okay to have humor at someone else's expense or to be mean to someone and call it 'funny.' I believe your daughter meant to be funny if that's what she's telling you, but there is just a pattern of meanness to my daughter, and even though it might seem funny to you, it's just causing DD a lot of pain. We don't see this changing, so we are going to switch churches. This is a tough choice because we really like you so much, but ultimately we think it's best for DD." I know that's more honest than some would be, but I really think the truth is a good things sometimes. :iagree: Well said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denisemomof4 Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 "Dh and I just loved having church with you so much, but it's become to hard for DD. We've always taught our children that it's never okay to have humor at someone else's expense or to be mean to someone and call it 'funny.' I believe your daughter meant to be funny if that's what she's telling you, but there is just a pattern of meanness to my daughter, and even though it might seem funny to you, it's just causing DD a lot of pain. We don't see this changing, so we are going to switch churches. This is a tough choice because we really like you so much, but ultimately we think it's best for DD." I know that's more honest than some would be, but I really think the truth is a good things sometimes. :iagree: I think that's perfect. It will be hard, but they honestly need to know that this has been going on for quite some time and you can't allow your daughter to be subject to it any longer. Money can really make people ugly sometimes. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueridge Posted August 23, 2009 Author Share Posted August 23, 2009 Oh, how I appreciate the honesty here! :grouphug: to you all. I now see that my heartbreak comes from the inner knowing that this family doesn't have any respect for us. We were more of a ministry to them, for a time, and that time is apparently over. It's sad to think of starting over again, but we know it's time. Our children are still so tender. They deserve better, and so do we. We have surely learned from this experience. We wish we knew the lesson that nice family was supposed to be learning from this. Maybe our 'leaving' will be the catalyst they need to examine their motives behind their actions. Lives aren't to be played with like chess pieces. We'll move on, with gentle honesty and joy. Thank you again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMom2One Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 "Dh and I just loved having church with you so much, but it's become to hard for DD. We've always taught our children that it's never okay to have humor at someone else's expense or to be mean to someone and call it 'funny.' I believe your daughter meant to be funny if that's what she's telling you, but there is just a pattern of meanness to my daughter, and even though it might seem funny to you, it's just causing DD a lot of pain. We don't see this changing, so we are going to switch churches. This is a tough choice because we really like you so much, but ultimately we think it's best for DD." I know that's more honest than some would be, but I really think the truth is a good things sometimes. This is excellent. I want to encourage you and your dh to communicate with this family in complete honesty, just as this poster suggested. If you don't, then they and their daughter will not have the opportunity to grow in an area that is desperately needed. If you remain silent, then they will think that this kind of behavior is acceptable. Chances are that even if they hear the truth, they will ignore the facts, but at least you can help provide them with the opportunity to face it and learn. It would actually be doing them a favor in the long run. We are in a kind of similar situation, so I also feel your pain. My thoughts and prayers are with you as you pray for God's wisdom going forward. Blessings, Lucinda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tree House Academy Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 It's either time to house church by yourselves or find a "brick and mortar" place of worship where your entire family can develop healthy friendships with a variety of people. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtroad Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 I bet you can find a good old brick & mortar church that will treat you better than this... even if you have to drive a few more miles!;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyJoy Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 I went to a tiny Christian school (8 students) with a girl like this. She left me alone after I quoted this to her a few times, said nothing else, and walked away. It didn't fit the situation perfectly, but she got the idea. Proverbs 26:18-19 Like a madman who throws firebrands, arrows, and death is the man who deceives his neighbor and says, “I am only joking!†Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
********* Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 :grouphug: Ginger, you have no idea just how much I can identify with your situation. I'm gonna send you a pm this afternoon; but just know that I'm praying for you right now... :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EthiopianFood Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Oh, how I appreciate the honesty here! :grouphug: to you all. I now see that my heartbreak comes from the inner knowing that this family doesn't have any respect for us. We were more of a ministry to them, for a time, and that time is apparently over. It's sad to think of starting over again, but we know it's time. Our children are still so tender. They deserve better, and so do we. We have surely learned from this experience. We wish we knew the lesson that nice family was supposed to be learning from this. Maybe our 'leaving' will be the catalyst they need to examine their motives behind their actions. Lives aren't to be played with like chess pieces. We'll move on, with gentle honesty and joy. Thank you again. God bless you for loving your children knowing that God has called you to take care of them and advocate for them, not sacrifice them in the name of false religion. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elizabeth Conley Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Oh, how I appreciate the honesty here! :grouphug: to you all. I now see that my heartbreak comes from the inner knowing that this family doesn't have any respect for us. We were more of a ministry to them, for a time, and that time is apparently over. It's sad to think of starting over again, but we know it's time. Our children are still so tender. They deserve better, and so do we. We have surely learned from this experience. We wish we knew the lesson that nice family was supposed to be learning from this. Maybe our 'leaving' will be the catalyst they need to examine their motives behind their actions. Lives aren't to be played with like chess pieces. We'll move on, with gentle honesty and joy. Thank you again. Dear Ginger, You're doing the right thing with the right attitude. Finding a good church will be a blessing to your family. I'm less confident that spelling things out for the other family is a good idea. It's been my experience that prideful people react to "gentle honesty" by slandering their "new enemy". The more quietly you make your escape, the less likely they are to go on the attack. As an introvert, you certainly won't enjoy being the object of all that negative attention. If I were you, I'd simply broaden my circle of friends and join a thriving church. You've already expressed your objection to their daughter's behavior. They've brushed off your objections. Without the help of a larger pool of church members to help you work the matter through, your duty to them has already been met. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PineFarmMom Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 (edited) I liked Danestress' response. It was good, kind, and to the point. I'll pray for your church situation. We are in between churches as well, as we just left our church last week. I understand that feeling. Another reason I'd see you needing to leave would be that that type of behavior, IMO, will squelch the sweetness of God's spirit there in your midst. If they are unwilling to alter her behavior, then it's just not addressing a problem among the members of your church, and that really can't lead anywhere positive. The response also completely disregards what your dd and your family may be feeling. There's no acknowledgement that the behavior is hurtful, only that since the girl's motives aren't wrong (per them) then everything is fine. I'm sorry you're going through this. Edited August 30, 2009 by Texas T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueridge Posted August 26, 2009 Author Share Posted August 26, 2009 (edited) Ladies, again I want to thank you for your thoughtful counsel. We are feeling very encouraged this week! Last night my dh was leading our family time devotions and was reading about brothers being offended. It was so true. We have been wounded for some time and didn't really realize it. Once upon a time, a friend of mine told me that our Lord has spread out a wonderful banquet feast for us...but why do we sometimes feel that we are deserving only of the scraps that fall onto the floor? We are now seeking a banquet! I have spoken to my (nice family) friend, briefly, and softly told her that all was well, that I was thankful that my dd and her dd were mending their fences, and that we are being led to find a more stable fellowship. She actually seemed surprised, but when later she mentioned that they were going out of town again this weekend, I think she may have finally seen the light from our perspective. My dd and I have had several fruitful talks about her friend and their relationship, and she has learned a great deal about protecting herself from those subtle but hurtful jabs. They spoke yesterday and all was improved because my dd was watchful. I really am thankful that this is coming to an end. Now maybe we can just be friends, but not feel as though we 'owe' them something, kwim? Many blessings to you all, and have a wonderful, positive week~ Edited August 26, 2009 by Blueridge clarification Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katemary63 Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 "Dh and I just loved having church with you so much, but it's become to hard for DD. We've always taught our children that it's never okay to have humor at someone else's expense or to be mean to someone and call it 'funny.' I believe your daughter meant to be funny if that's what she's telling you, but there is just a pattern of meanness to my daughter, and even though it might seem funny to you, it's just causing DD a lot of pain. We don't see this changing, so we are going to switch churches. This is a tough choice because we really like you so much, but ultimately we think it's best for DD." I know that's more honest than some would be, but I really think the truth is a good things sometimes. :iagree::iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elizabeth Conley Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 (edited) Last night my dh was leading our family time devotions and was reading about brothers being offended. It was so true. We have been wounded for some time and didn't really realize it. Once upon a time, a friend of mine told me that our Lord has spread out a wonderful banquet feast for us...but why do we sometimes feel that we are deserving only of the scraps that fall onto the floor? We are now seeking a banquet! I have spoken to my (nice family) friend, briefly, and softly told her that all was well, that I was thankful that my dd and her dd were mending their fences, and that we are being led to find a more stable fellowship. She actually seemed surprised, but when later she mentioned that they were going out of town again this weekend, I think she may have finally seen the light from our perspective. My dd and I have had several fruitful talks about her friend and their relationship, and she has learned a great deal about protecting herself from those subtle but hurtful jabs. They spoke yesterday and all was improved because my dd was watchful. I really am thankful that this is coming to an end. Now maybe we can just be friends, but not feel as though we 'owe' them something, kwim? I think you've handled this just right. You now have a more mutually respectful relationship with this family, plus an opportunity to connect with more members of the body of Christ. This is a win-win solution. Edited August 26, 2009 by Elizabeth Conley minor code issue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tutor Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 ....there is nothing wrong with saying, "the way you say things are hurtful" if you get "I'm only kidding"...then come back with, "if you're the only one who finds it funny, it's not kidding it's mean." Be matter of factly and take time to encourage the traits in this child that need to be exploited...everyone has some good points...if she's helpful in anything, thank her genuinely... We are having to deal with this with our dd12. She's trying to find her identity as she begins to see herself more as a young adult than a kid. Dh and I speak sarcasm like a second language :D (so do many of our friends), so we are having to really work on putting up the boundaries on our dd's language. She will honestly think something comes across as funny (she can even tell you how she thought the whole conversation would play out), but it comes across as mean. She is actually very shy with people she doesn't know well, but with people she feels very close to, she feels comfortable joking... but sometimes she goes too far, treats something as light that is actually very dear to the other person, or exploits a sensitive area thinking that she is close enough to the other person that *anything* can become a joke. (She honestly does not see how the other person involved could be offended or hurt by her comments; if their relationship is as close as dd thinks it is, the other person would *know* that she was joking.) I only say all this to ask you to have some compassion for the other girl when addressing the issue. If she is anything like my dd, she would be devastated to realize that she is actually being hurtful. You should *defenitely* say something... for the good of this girl, your dd, and your families' relationship. And if after confronting her (and her parents) lovingly and the behavior doesn't change, then allow her to suffer the natural consequences of her actions and end the friendship. Who knows? Maybe that will shock her into repentance. I am so sorry for the pain that your dd is feeling. Pain inflicted by someone who is suppoed to be a friend can be the most devastating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiloh Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 There are too many bullies in life aren't there? DD16 will be well served to learn how to handle a bully. Bullies look for easy targets not people who defend themselves. I would advise DD16 (and I have done this with my own kids) to directly tell her friend that the comments are mean and hard hearted - even if unintended. DD16 should give the relationship and the humor blog a breather to allow her perspective to sink in to the friend. DD16 has to decide if she wants a close relationship with a frenemy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iluvmy4blessings Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 I have not read all the replies yet, but wanted to leave my 2 cents :) In 2006, we had just moved to this city. We had not even found a church yet. Without going into details, I unexpectedly found myself going through a divorce. I quickly found a church but I was also going through a difficult time. A family at the church reached out to us during this time. I could not even begin to go in to all the ways they helped me. Her dh did things around the house for me that I did not know how to do since my dh had left. She babysat and even brought meals for me. I felt that I really owed them for helping me get through this horrible time. However, they also became somewhat controlling. Our families were so melded together that not one day passed without us seeing each other. We even went on a family vacation together. It was becoming too codependent and as I healed from my divorce and became more independent they seemed to resent it. Since I felt like I owed them, I let every single thing go that was negative. I never mentioned any negative things . Their oldest daughter was much like you described. She was also controlling of my oldest dd. She would not "allow" my dd to have other friends and would literally guilt trip her with things like..."After all our family has done for you" if my dd even dared to talk to anyone else. Her younger son had pretty serious behavioral problems which were uncontrolled. They laughed it off but it was affecting my kids. I inched away slowly but drug this situation out for 2 years. In the end, it was apparent that they were in charge of our friendship. I felt like a child around them. They were running the show. I actually believe that they befriended me not so much out of wanting to help, but becasue I was vulnerable and easy to push around b/c I was so depressed at the time. They like being in control. For example they would show up at my house unannounced and tell us we were all going to the mall. She would walk through my house, check the kids rooms to make sure they were clean, and yell at me if my laundry wasn't done. She liked to be in control and to be honest for a time I was in severe depression.SEVERE. So in a way it helped me, but that is not something you want long term! I know our situations are different but I just wanted to say I know what it's like to feel tied. I am still grateful for what they did, but I had to cut the cord. When it harms your children and I believe it is harming your dd to be treated this way..it's time to move on. Your dd is homeschooled and she is dealing with the same treatment you get from "mean girls" at a regular school. Who needs that?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxmum Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 :iagree: Once upon a time, in your shoes, I would have been terribly worried about how I was going to be received and dealt with, were I to reply the way Danestress suggested. Here's the thing: they already see you and your family as not worthy of respect. They're treating you badly and they think they can get away with it. You've initiated Matt 18 already. Follow through, dear, and may your whole family heal quickly from this experience, growing even stronger for it. :grouphug: http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/images/smilies/iagree.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reya Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 You either need to ditch them or teach your DD to say, "I hope it makes you feel good about yourself to be so hateful." If the girl claims she is kidding, DD should say, "Being hateful isn't a joke." Continue to repeat until she stops protesting. YOU need to tell the mother, flatly, that you are tired of her child's hatefulness and will not have it in your house any longer. PERIOD. Hatefulness, again, is NOT a joke. She needs to STOP blogging with her right now and delete all her own posts and tell the girl that she can't share a blog with someone who is hateful. She needs to tell the girl that friends are not abusive, and she will not be her friend if she continues to be hateful. This will shut her down--eventually. Slapping her across the face every time she's snotty works, too. But it's get you DD in more trouble than it's worth. :-) So I don't recommend it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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