We Are All Hindus Now?

[Haiku]

I suspect it's all three of these things, but mostly #2.

 

I would also say that the Heinz 57 of varieties of Christianity contributes to it. Even the Christians don't seem to agree on exactly how to interpret the Bible or what it literally says, hence the multitude of different denominations. I don't think it's that much of a stretch for someone to think that if the various varieties of Christians can somehow all manage to get to heaven, then maybe all people of goodwill will make it there.

 

Tara

[Haiku]

My only point is that if you don't believe in Christ and the Bible, which is where we learn of Christ and God - Christianity, then you shouldn't raise your hand when someone asks "who here is a Christian."

 

 

Are there really lots of people running around saying, "I reject that Jesus was the son of god and I think the Bible is a pack of lies" but yet claiming to be Christian?

 

I would be more inclined to believe that there are lots of people running around with their interpretations of the Bible who are being pointed at by others with yet different interpretations of the Bible and being called someone who doesn't "believe in Christ and the Bible." And that there are lots of people who are imperfectly practicing their beliefs and thereby being judged by others to be someone who doesn't "believe in Christ and the Bible."

 

I know that I constantly fall short of my religious aspirations, but that does not mean that I don't believe in the tenets of my religion. Is it someone else's job to cut me out of the faith for not being perfect?

 

Tara

[Jugglin'5]

Are there really lots of people running around saying, "I reject that Jesus was the son of god and I think the Bible is a pack of lies" but yet claiming to be Christian?

 

 

Tara

 

Well, son of God-ish. Of course, they are more diplomatic than to say a "pack of lies". Or, "He was a great man, good teacher, etc".

[JennC]

Are there really lots of people running around saying, "I reject that Jesus was the son of god and I think the Bible is a pack of lies" but yet claiming to be Christian?

Well I was just referring to the thread at hand, which talks a lot about Christianity and the fact the many who were simply raised in a 'christian' home, etc. call themselves Christian by default. And they are seeking, but finding maybe something else. And even here there are many who say they don't believe the Bible is literal, so it can be interpreted many different ways. If you interpret a recipe in a different way than it was written, you may not get the souffle.

So according to that, it would seem that there are people of no religious or faith inclinations at all who categorize themselves as Christian.

BTW, when you read a verse out of the Bible that says "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. No man comes to the Father, except through me" (Jesus speaking), how can you then go on to say that there are many ways to get to Christianity? There are many ways to be sure, but only one leads to the Christianity of the Bible. You can't take a basic premise of a faith, disregard it and then claim to be part of it.

 

I would be more inclined to believe that there are lots of people running around with their interpretations of the Bible who are being pointed at by others with yet different interpretations of the Bible and being called someone who doesn't "believe in Christ and the Bible." And that there are lots of people who are imperfectly practicing their beliefs and thereby being judged by others to be someone who doesn't "believe in Christ and the Bible.

But, so you know, that is NOT what I am doing at all. The Bible also says "We all stumble in many ways." (James 3:2) ALL, including ME.

To answer you specifically, I am talking about people who openly say, "I don't believe the Bible is literally the word of God. It has good information, or It should be interpreted by each person, etc. Again, I do not judge those people, however, see above.

 

I know that I constantly fall short of my religious aspirations, but that does not mean that I don't believe in the tenets of my religion. Is it someone else's job to cut me out of the faith for not being perfect?

Absolutely NOT! And for sure not me. I already turned down that job in another post.;)

 

Tara

 

PS I forgot to mention earlier that I love salsa, too. And for lunch Saturday, we were tasters at a chili-cook-off.

[Peek a Boo]

Are there really lots of people running around saying, "I reject that Jesus was the son of god and I think the Bible is a pack of lies" but yet claiming to be Christian?

 

I think there ARE quite a few doing exactly that. ut it's usually spun in a few other buzzwords of dismissing scripture as "cultural" or "not relevant to today" or "antiquated."

I would be more inclined to believe that there are lots of people running around with their interpretations of the Bible who are being pointed at by others with yet different interpretations of the Bible and being called someone who doesn't "believe in Christ and the Bible." And that there are lots of people who are imperfectly practicing their beliefs and thereby being judged by others to be someone who doesn't "believe in Christ and the Bible."

 

 

I agree.

I tend to view the Body of Christ as a very close analogy to a literal body: each denomination is akin to a different system in our own bodies: the nervous system looks NOTHING like the digestive system and has a different purpose, but they are all working together to serve and complete the Body.

But at least 95% of Christian denominations all profess a belief in Christ as savior.

and yeah, i just yanked that statistic outta thin air. ;)

I know that I constantly fall short of my religious aspirations, but that does not mean that I don't believe in the tenets of my religion. Is it someone else's job to cut me out of the faith for not being perfect?

 

I usually only see NON Christians calling Christians to the carpet w/ the typical "gee, that's real Christian of you" comments. I agree that it does indicate a lack of understanding for what one's religion really teaches. I do see a difference between saying "this is what my understanding of the Bible says -- I certainly can't judge YOU, but if you don't adhere to these principles then i must discern that your FAITH --based on your actions and what you profess-- is not conducive to being a Believer." We are not God, and can only work w/ our own faulty reasoning. However, since we ARE told to be discerning, then YES, it is our "job" to take action on what we believe. There's only one unforgivable sin, and it's NOT being wrong about another person's faith.

[Haiku]

buzzwords

 

Nice cross-thread reference. ;)

 

Tara

[Peek a Boo]

Wow, I'm almost speechless. I thought according to Christian belief it is God's job to judge.

 

It's also "according to Christian belief" to judge people's actions and words. But I understand many dismiss that part of scripture. back to my post just above.

Can you be more specific as to which religions teach to kill, rape, etc? I cannot think of any. Just as it happens in Christianity, many people twist the scriptures of other religions around fanatically. Doesn't mean the religion itself teaches these things.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannibalism

 

unfortunately, since many truly believe that those twisted ideas [justifying to kill, rape, etc] are ACCURATE, then yes, indeed, that religion does teach that. That goes for Christianity and Islam too. If indeed we can't judge which religion is "right" then we can't dismiss those teachings as merely fanatical twisting.

Have you studied other religions independently of a Christian viewpoint? Have you spoken in depth with others of different religions? Not all the lines in other religions scriptures can be easily interpreted to an English understanding, there are deeper levels of understanding, not just a translated sentence.

 

I have not. But when i do study religions, I tend to look for sources BY that religion, not a Christian spin on it.

[Peek a Boo]

Nice cross-thread reference. ;)

 

 

:D

[Night Elf]

No, What I mean exactly is that if you don't equate heaven with God and Christ, you probably shouldn't call yourself a Christian.

If you relate heaven to something else, that's your business, but don't call yourself a Christian. Call yourself a whatever-ian.;)

 

Oh, well true. I have wished the same thing, that people would own up to their true beliefs. When I started questioning my faith, I stopped calling myself a Christian. Some people prefer hiding to be accepted by a group. Unfortunately, they make poor representatives of the group and people might then judge a whole group by the false few. Sad, really.

[KingM]

Originally Posted by JennC

No, What I mean exactly is that if you don't equate heaven with God and Christ, you probably shouldn't call yourself a Christian.

If you relate heaven to something else, that's your business, but don't call yourself a Christian. Call yourself a whatever-ian.;)

 

Oh, well true. I have wished the same thing, that people would own up to their true beliefs. When I started questioning my faith, I stopped calling myself a Christian. Some people prefer hiding to be accepted by a group. Unfortunately, they make poor representatives of the group and people might then judge a whole group by the false few. Sad, really.

 

I don't know. What about Mormons? They say they're Christians, but some other Christians say they are not. I believe this is also rife within Islam as well, with many Sunni not considering Shi'a to be true Muslims at all. I guess I think that if someone calls themselves Christian, Muslim, or whatever faith, that they should be taken at their word.

[Peek a Boo]

[/i] I guess I think that if someone calls themselves Christian, Muslim, or whatever faith, that they should be taken at their word.

 

Not if their word is testifying that they routinely reject huge parts of that religion's typical tenets.

 

So we're back to....... if you can't judge another's faith, then you also can't judge that person for ADHERING to particular aspects OF that faith, even if it involves excluding others from a religious standpoint.

[Loupelou]

The attached article was disappointingly short, shamefully editorialized, and a little too trite. I would be interested to know exactly what questions were asked the participants and also how they were worded. Couldn't "many religions can lead to eternal life" simply refer to the participants belief that Christian religions (denominations) are the way to eternal life, as in Baptist,Presbyterian,Methodist,Catholic,dare I add Mormon:D, etc. ?

Honestly, I can imagine being asked if I thought mine was the one true religion and would others still make it into heaven. I would answer yes to both questions, but my first thought would not be concerning the Hindus, or Muslims, but rather other Christians. I don't know what that says about me.:D

 

Also, they obviously didn't bother to take a poll concerning why more people are choosing cremation - for one it's probably a heck of a lot cheaper!

 

Also, this quote "Thirty percent of Americans call themselves "spiritual, not religious,". Did 30% actually say "I would call myself spiritual but not religious", or did they say, "Yes, I would call myself a spiritual person"? Big difference.

 

I've seen a lot of articles, polls, etc. proclaiming the downturn in followers of Christianity in the United States but living as I am in the heartland I just don't buy it.

 

I saw the previous quote from John 14, and just wanted to call your attention to verse 2: "In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you."

 

I think there is a place for all in the Kingdom of God. A place that they will be comfortable in. As a previous poster asked the question of whether those who rejected Christ would even want to be there. Maybe not but they'll get the opportunity.

Edited August 17, 2009 by Loupelou

[EKS]

It's a belief- believing in the Bible literally is a belief.

 

Yes.

[Dirtroad]

Wow, I'm almost speechless. I thought according to Christian belief it is God's job to judge.

 

Can you be more specific as to which religions teach to kill, rape, etc? I cannot think of any. Just as it happens in Christianity, many people twist the scriptures of other religions around fanatically. Doesn't mean the religion itself teaches these things.

 

Have you studied other religions independently of a Christian viewpoint? Have you spoken in depth with others of different religions? Not all the lines in other religions scriptures can be easily interpreted to an English understanding, there are deeper levels of understanding, not just a translated sentence.

 

As for Hinduism, the proper term is Sanatama Dharma, it's not a religion it is a way of life, a philosophy if you will. And it's not your job to decide if a billion people on earth who believe in this will go to hell.

 

Whoa! There is not judgement here... I quoted scripture & explained what it meant in traditional Christian circles. I have also posted that not all relegions are the same & do not value people or life in the same manner.

 

Do you really want to take this thread into the domain of hashing out rapes being acceptible & burning of widows being humane? Perhaps going into old relegions of sacrificing a child to help with the fertility of next years crops.

 

Fine is Hinduism is a way of life. It is not Christian and does not fit the instruction given by Christ... therefore (in context with OP), if someone has adopted the HINDU systems of belief... they have rejected OR abandoned the teachings of Christ!

 

I didn't and do not decide who goes to hell, torment or Disneyland. That is their decision... then GODS. Seems to me that you are judging and not reading the post in terms of explanation. I even tried to make that clear.

Edited August 17, 2009 by Dirtroad

[Lovedtodeath]

As a side note: The way you (tara) describe "other people's heaven" is much different than the poster who made a comment about God and Buddha chatting in heaven. The latter is a _____? notion.

That struck me as very odd. From what I have been reading, Buddha did not believe in heaven at all.

 

I think there ARE quite a few doing exactly that. ut it's usually spun in a few other buzzwords of dismissing scripture as "cultural" or "not relevant to today" or "antiquated."

 

:iagree:

But at least 95% of Christian denominations all profess a belief in Christ as savior.

and yeah, i just yanked that statistic outta thin air. ;)

There are people who call themselves Christians but don't believe in Jesus Christ as the savior? Really?

I do see a difference between saying "this is what my understanding of the Bible says -- I certainly can't judge YOU, but if you don't adhere to these principles then i must discern that your FAITH --based on your actions and what you profess-- is not conducive to being a Believer." We are not God, and can only work w/ our own faulty reasoning. However, since we ARE told to be discerning, then YES, it is our "job" to take action on what we believe.

:iagree:

[Lovedtodeath]

Just wanted to say that I believe that Jehovah's Witnesses have the only religion that teaches the truth as close as humans have it. I do not believe that everyone who is not a Jehovah's Witness, whether professing to be Christian or not is going to be destroyed, but God will judge and destroy some people. Otherwise the paradise promised would not be possible. How loving would it be to allow wicked people to ruin the chance of true-hearted ones to have that promised paradise?

 

I do not believe anyone is going to hell as most people understand hell.

Edited August 17, 2009 by Lovedtodeath

[Dirtroad]

Wow, I'm almost speechless. I thought according to Christian belief it is God's job to judge.

 

Can you be more specific as to which religions teach to kill, rape, etc? I cannot think of any. Just as it happens in Christianity, many people twist the scriptures of other religions around fanatically. Doesn't mean the religion itself teaches these things.

 

Have you studied other religions independently of a Christian viewpoint? Have you spoken in depth with others of different religions? Not all the lines in other religions scriptures can be easily interpreted to an English understanding, there are deeper levels of understanding, not just a translated sentence.

 

As for Hinduism, the proper term is Sanatama Dharma, it's not a religion it is a way of life, a philosophy if you will. And it's not your job to decide if a billion people on earth who believe in this will go to hell.

 

 

:confused: No, I live in a box! :001_huh: (take with humor to break tension!)

 

I have friends in India who daily struggle with the Hindus & Muslims in a major city. She (the wife) lives in fear of her husband dying before her and leaving her alone in a city not friendly to its widows and untouchables. I have friends who life in our little town that we see weekly who go to Temple and have family in Mumbai. The husband was educated by Christians in India but his wife is more involved as a practicing Hindu. He doesnt' seem to take a position, but his children are going to Temple.

 

I have a friend in Pakistan who must whisper to speak of Christ or be potentially attacked by his neighbor. His ministry is to rescue orphaned girls & teens to save them from the "rape & brutality" of loving uncles when they are left alone in this world. (or maybe their family is just tired of feeding another girl & turns them out). I have friends in Haiti who deals with the Voodoo & the witch doctors. The drinking of concoctions and rituals that often cause major physical harm or injury. The blood & filth of some places b/c of a ritual or "observance of a spirit". He also deals with those who just wait on the government and put all their FAITH in that.

 

I have friends in the United States who completely reject the teachings of Christ.... but still call themselves Christians. I have friends who believe more in evolution and the "love" of fellow man than the remote likelihood of any diety. I have friends here who think their denomination is the ONLY ONE who will get into heaven. Shall I keep going? All flavors!

 

Levels of understanding are not the same as a relationship with God. In Christian terms, knowing & accepting the teachings/life/resurrection of Christ is the way to God.

 

And, once again, I didn't say that all Hindus (billions or not) would go to hell. I said that by the teachings of Christ, if they reject him as the I AM, they will.

 

Back to original statements, regarding comments on Christians adapting Hindu beliefs, etc.... They can't combine b/c CHRIST says no. (not Dirtroad says NO)

.....and you are RIGHT on the money when you said it isn't my job... it is not. It is God's. (Thank Goodness!)

 

Oh... and every time you make a decision, you make a judgement. Christians must make judgements also. We must make judgements regarding with whom we may worship, entrust our children, live near, and even ride in a car with.... what we can't judge is What GOD sees in their heart & their TRUE relationship & repentance with him (be it at 7, 57, or on a deathbed). He makes the final call. We may have discernment by the fruit they bear (is it rotten or good)... but we can't make that final call... God is with them always & really (deeply) knows them, not us.

Edited August 17, 2009 by Dirtroad

[Dirtroad]

Are there really lots of people running around saying, "I reject that Jesus was the son of god and I think the Bible is a pack of lies" but yet claiming to be Christian?

 

 

Tara

 

Believe it or not.. yep! No so bluntly... but they deny the scripture and the diety of CHRIST... yet, claim to be Christian. I have never understood why? Is is just habit, does it sound good, does it keep them in the neighborhood golfing group.... why not just be honest & say NO, we don't believe HE died on a cross & shed blood (that is barbaric) and we don't believe in the virgin birth (scientifically impossible), and we dont' believe HE rose in 3 days (physically impossible), etc.

 

Just say NO and be honest.... and let the Christians keep their "name or category". Surely these people could develop something more interesting than just using the same old thing.

Edited August 17, 2009 by Dirtroad

[JudyJudyJudy]

Just wanted to say that I believe that Jehovah's Witnesses have the only religion that teaches the absolute truth.

And, meanwhile, many other Christians say that JWs are not Christians. Also, many JWs are quick to judge other denominations as not being Christian. Judgment is everywhere.

[Peela]

 

I have friends in India who daily struggle with the Hindus & Muslims in a major city. She (the wife) lives in fear of her husband dying before her and leaving her alone in a city not friendly to its widows and untouchables. How she lost her apartment b/c her Brahmin landlord thought he smelled the cooking of meat one night.

 

 

 

 

And your point is...what? that other religions are barbaric compared to Christianity? Then I suggest perhaps you have been living in a box, considering what Christians have done, the millions they have killed, the whole races they have annihilated, in the name of their religion.

Acts of barbarism are acts of barbarism and no race is free of them, and they are often done in the name of religion. Muslim terrorists do not represent the majority of Muslims yet they kill in the name of their religion too.

It's a sick, messed up world, and that sure doesn't exclude the Christian believing parts of it. There is also a lot of good in it, and I have been to India and its is largely a peaceful place where people's religion is very much part of their day to day life.

In every religion, there are those who seek for the essence and pure heart of the religion, and those who are prepared to just go along with the widespread culture that grows around any religion.

In any country where there is a lot of poverty, lack of education and ignorance.. there will be horrible activities such as wife burning and child selling etc. That doesn't mean the religion promotes it or that most intelligent, educated people follow it. After all, they burned witches a while back, by the thousands, didn't they, in the name of Christianity? And now we go and kill millions of people in other countries in the name of righteous wars. We are not civilised, Christian or not, and it is purely ignorant to think that Christian people or nations are exempt from committing horrible deeds any more or less than anyone esle.

I am just responding to the quote above and the rest of it that was along the same lines, not to what anyone else has said. I find it very offensive that anyone would think that Christians are more loving or more civilized, less barbaric, than say, the Hindus, in general.

[Julieofsardis]

Being a non-Christian in a Christian country, I get the question a lot. What happens when you die? Frankly, I don't know. But I would hate to think that one religion has a monopoly on heaven, if there is one.

FWIW, this is very close to my heart right now. We went to a funeral yesterday for a 25 year old man who committed suicide last Monday. It was devestating. The minister (an evangelical who was from the man's father's church) actually told the grieving audience that "due to the circumstances surrounding this man's death he was probably not headed to heaven." He also said if we don't repent now we were playing "Russian roulette with our souls." The man shot himself. I thought it was in very poor taste. My dh and I left and waited in the lobby until he was finished speaking, which was 40 minutes later. He wouldn't let the friends come up and speak. Luckily, upon talking with the family afterwards, they were so upset and distraught that they didn't listen to what the preacher was saying. If I had been family, I would have stopped him.

Anyway, my point is that I don't feel it's my place to judge others and their beliefs. I just hope to live the best life I can with kindness and integrity. This man did, he just got lost along the way and in a weak moment did something very permanent. I think a kind God would understand and accept him regardless. JMHO.

 

As a Christian, the behavior of this so called "minister" infuriates me. I am so sorry that you had to be subjected to a tactless boar like that. No one else can judge the condition of that man's soul.

[sleepymommy]

This is not meant to be offensive or argumentative - just defining & explaining a view point that wasn't already posted. As for answering the OP & this concept, the Hindus who have rejected Christ will not enter into God's kingdom/heaven.

 

Fine is Hinduism is a way of life. It is not Christian and does not fit the instruction given by Christ... therefore (in context with OP), if someone has adopted the HINDU systems of belief... they have rejected OR abandoned the teachings of Christ!

 

 

Okay, I understand and I'm also trying not to judge, I'm sorry to come off that way.

 

The first quote is a little different from the second. See, saying Hindu's who reject Christ will not enter God's kingdom/heaven sounded a bit judgemental to*me*.

 

Being born and raised here, I've had plenty of people (Christians) preach to me that I will go to hell for not taking Jesus Christ as my saviour. (not exactly what you want to hear when your sitting down for a cup of coffee and the daily newspaper or while walking to the library with toddler in tow) And I guess a little of the feeling crept back up in me. Again I apologize for letting those feelings get in the way of my post. Just as I shouldn't expect your beliefs to stay with you in a secular society, it is difficult for my reactions to your beliefs to remain within me.

 

 

Krishna says " I am the beginning, the middle, the end" (BG 10:20)

 

Different people have different scriptures, I would never try to tell anyone that mine is the only way to salvation.

[Rosie_0801]

And that's fine - everyone can believe what they want. That's the essence of religious freedom/free will. My only point is that if you don't believe in Christ and the Bible, which is where we learn of Christ and God - Christianity, then you shouldn't raise your hand when someone asks "who here is a Christian."

KWIM?

 

I think "nominal" is the adjective to be applied to those kinds of people. When someone asks for hands to be raised, they should raise their hands half way, look at the floor and mutter "er, kind of." :)

 

As a side note: The way you (tara) describe "other people's heaven" is much different than the poster who made a comment about God and Buddha chatting in heaven. The latter is a _____? notion. I don't even know how to "adjectize" it.

 

 

Encompassing? Liberal? Neighbourly? :)

 

 

Rosie

[bairnmama]

I'm not sure I understand this. I am supposing you are meaning that some people say they believe in heaven but do not believe in Christ? The definitions I listed show that heaven is not seen as a Christian idea only.

 

 

It may have already been answered.... but I think the intent was that if you do not feel that heaven is a place of eternity spent with God/Jesus/Holy Spirit you should not call yourself Christian. The term Christian means a follower of Christ, not a person who believes in heaven.

[sleepymommy]

 

I have friends in India who daily struggle with the Hindus & Muslims in a major city. She (the wife) lives in fear of her husband dying before her and leaving her alone in a city not friendly to its widows and untouchables. I have friends who life in our little town that we see weekly who go to Temple and have family in Mumbai. The husband was educated by Christians in India but his wife is more involved as a practicing Hindu. He doesnt' seem to take a position, but his children are going to Temple.

.

 

And here in America, there are struggles and poverty. There are divides between religions, Jews, Christians, Muslims. There are no anti-semitic acts of violence in the US? Has no one ever walked into UU church and opened fire. What about at the Holocaust Museum?

 

Should we go around saying this is the norm in America or that we have issues just as the rest of the world has issues?

 

So the husband doesn't go to temple, I'm sure there are some couples in America where the wife and kids go to church and the husband doesn't. Not really understanding the point there.

[Dirtroad]

And your point is...what? that other religions are barbaric compared to Christianity? Then I suggest perhaps you have been living in a box, considering what Christians have done, the millions they have killed, the whole races they have annihilated, in the name of their religion.

Acts of barbarism are acts of barbarism and no race is free of them, and they are often done in the name of religion. Muslim terrorists do not represent the majority of Muslims yet they kill in the name of their religion too.

It's a sick, messed up world, and that sure doesn't exclude the Christian believing parts of it. There is also a lot of good in it, and I have been to India and its is largely a peaceful place where people's religion is very much part of their day to day life.

In every religion, there are those who seek for the essence and pure heart of the religion, and those who are prepared to just go along with the widespread culture that grows around any religion.

In any country where there is a lot of poverty, lack of education and ignorance.. there will be horrible activities such as wife burning and child selling etc. That doesn't mean the religion promotes it or that most intelligent, educated people follow it. After all, they burned witches a while back, by the thousands, didn't they, in the name of Christianity? And now we go and kill millions of people in other countries in the name of righteous wars. We are not civilised, Christian or not, and it is purely ignorant to think that Christian people or nations are exempt from committing horrible deeds any more or less than anyone esle.

I am just responding to the quote above and the rest of it that was along the same lines, not to what anyone else has said. I find it very offensive that anyone would think that Christians are more loving or more civilized, less barbaric, than say, the Hindus, in general.

 

Nope... she ask me if I knew anything about other relegions.... people, situations, definitions, .... those comments were regarding knowing all sorts & from different view points.

 

Come on now... you didnt' really read my post as an attempt to answer her did you?:confused:

 

I do find it interesting how many people reject Christian principles (not rules or laws,etc) in a society (love & help neighbor, give to the poor & needy, don't murder, don't steal, on & on) and attempt to balance them with many other relegions that have absolutely shredded their people & their nations. Poverty (for example) is not the problem in Haiti... it is the result of the problem. I think the same can be said for many places.

 

But, sleepy---- asked if I had knowledge of other relegions... and I said I do with examples of several .

Edited August 17, 2009 by Dirtroad

[Lovedtodeath]

And, meanwhile, many other Christians say that JWs are not Christians. Also, many JWs are quick to judge other denominations as not being Christian. Judgment is everywhere.

Wow, my point was that though I believe that Witnesses have the one true religion, that does not translate into I believe all others will go to hell or be destroyed.

 

Your selective quote and reply really gave it a totally different tone.

 

again my point was that the statement you quoted does not translate into I believe all others will go to hell or be destroyed.

[Dirtroad]

And here in America, there are struggles and poverty. There are divides between religions, Jews, Christians, Muslims. There are no anti-semitic acts of violence in the US? Has no one ever walked into UU church and opened fire. What about at the Holocaust Museum?

 

Should we go around saying this is the norm in America or that we have issues just as the rest of the world has issues?

 

So the husband doesn't go to temple, I'm sure there are some couples in America where the wife and kids go to church and the husband doesn't. Not really understanding the point there.

 

His going to temple is irrelevant, it was only a description of different people that I know (variations in their practices & lifestyles) & dearly love from India. You bring your defensiveness to the post. It was a descriptive of different people from the Hindu influenced culture in India - their homeland.

 

I also mentioned friends living in voodoo, muslim, and Christian cultures... she asked me if I had any knowledge... I have not lived in that box.

 

As for my friend fearing for her husband dying before her... that is b/c of the common life that she faces daily. Common & very stressful to her. The Holocaust guy was a hatefilled criminal who is going to jail - not comparible to our daily lives & US culture (not even a comparison of circumstances). If Prasuna is attacked as an untouchable Christian, she knows she will have NO help & few to any rights. So, she is afraid. The Holocaust Museum lunatic will go to jail!

 

Murder is NOT Christian (& the conversation was about trying to equate all relegions equally as Americans want the relegion buffet to have it all.... & about the OP post involved the Hindus & Christians & changes/beliefs, etc). This attack on my post is a rabbit trail.

 

Murder is not a part of the the teachings of Christ & is not acceptible on any grounds.... none. Your examples have nothing to do with the Christian relegion but violent acts upon various groups which are quickly handled by the LAW of our land. They are not culturally accepted, regional norms, or even supported by the people.

 

Atleast in America, these issues are criminal & not accepted as common. In some places in the world, they are not & are even encouraged. Some places are changing but lack the controls to completely enforce the changes. Hopefully, that will change too.

 

My complete postings tie to the original answer that to accept HINDU teachings is not compatible with accepting the teachings of Christ. Not relegion bashing.... take it where one will if they want to infer something more...

Edited August 17, 2009 by Dirtroad

[Lovedtodeath]

 

Different people have different scriptures, I would never try to tell anyone that mine is the only way to salvation.

The scriptures themselves say that they are the only way to salvation. Jesus himself said it. And Dirtroad quoted it.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Wow, my point was that though I believe that Witnesses have the one true religion, that does not translate into I believe all others will go to hell or be destroyed.

 

Your selective quote and reply really gave it a totally different tone.

 

again my point was that the statement you quoted does not translate into I believe all others will go to hell or be destroyed.

I understood what you meant. I'm sorry that I didn't state that before responding with what your post made me remember from earlier in the thread. When I saw your post, it immediately reminded me of an earlier post where someone stated that not all Christians think that others who say they are Christians are Christians. When I read that, my first thought was Jehovah's Witnesses because I've heard numerous times from people of other denominations that JWs are not Christians, and, likewise, I've heard from JWs that other denominations aren't Christians.

 

I'm truly glad that you don't believe that others will be destroyed. Unfortunately, though, that hasn't been my experience with most other JWs.

 

My mother is JW, and my father's family is Southern Baptist. It was rough on me as a child to hear both denominations almost constantly judging each other.

 

Since you don't believe like the JWs that I know, what do you think will happen to the nonJWs who never see things the JW way?

[JudyJudyJudy]

The scriptures themselves say that they are the only way to salvation. Jesus himself said it. And Dirtroad quoted it.

If another religion's scriptures say that their way is the only way, does that make it so?

[Lovedtodeath]

 

I understood what you meant. I'm sorry that I didn't state that before responding with what your post made me remember from earlier in the thread.

My point was that not everyone who believes in only one Truth believes that those who don't have that Truth are going to be destroyed (or tortured), and neither do they deserve to be.

[Lovedtodeath]

 

If another religion's scriptures say that their way is the only way, does that make it so?

My point with this was that you cannot expect someone who follows Christ and the scriptures to not believe that.

[Lovedtodeath]

Since you don't believe like the JWs that I know, what do you think will happen to the nonJWs who never see things the JW way?

I believe that there are persons in heaven appointed to the task of judging why that is. As humans we cannot judge the heart condition. Some people rejected Jesus when he was on the earth and Jesus prayed for them. Some of those that rejected him later became his followers and will be corulers with him in heaven. I would assume that rejecting Jehovah's Witnesses would not be a more serious sin than rejecting Christ himself.

 

In addition, there are people who will never hear the details. Can they be judged for their ignorance? Then again, ignorance can also be a choice. I do not have the task of determining who belongs in paradise and who would ruin it. From what I understand it is those that are humble enough to have an open mind that would belong there.

[JennC]

If another religion's scriptures say that their way is the only way, does that make it so?

 

That is really a moot question. I would submit to you that if it is a different religion's scriptures they are not Christians.

Christian = follower of Christ

 

If you have a religion that does not believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God and the one true way to eternity with God, no one is disputing your right to it, or wanting here to argue the validity of it (at least I'm not). The fact is that religion is not Christian.

[JennC]

I was just thinking

If you think it is a healthy lifestyle to not eat meat, and that people who don't eat meat are onto something, but you personally decide for yourself that you will eat meat, but once in a while at a friend's house have a meat-free meal, Are you a vegetarian?

[JennC]

I was just thinking

In the Bible, Jesus claims to be God. If you don't believe that Jesus is God, (but instead was just a great man, or an important prophet), but you claim to be a Christian >> do you realize the implications of that? I mean Jesus is either God, like he says he is, or he is a complete liar and a fraud.

[JudyJudyJudy]

My point was that not everyone who believes in only one Truth believes that those who don't have that Truth are going to be destroyed (or tortured), and neither do they deserve to be.

But that's because your idea of hell is different from that of most other Christians. The JWs I know believe that those who "reject the Truth" won't have eternal life, so ultimately, that's as bad as it gets. As for "destroyed," though, I've read numerous scriptures with that terminology; however, the NWT tends to use expressions like "cut off" instead.

 

 

That is really a moot question. I would submit to you that if it is a different religion's scriptures they are not Christians.

Christian = follower of Christ

 

If you have a religion that does not believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God and the one true way to eternity with God, no one is disputing your right to it, or wanting here to argue the validity of it (at least I'm not). The fact is that religion is not Christian.

The thread isn't just about what is Christian and what is not; I'm not sure where you got that it is. The thread is about believing that there can be different paths to salvation.

[JudyJudyJudy]

I was just thinking

If you think it is a healthy lifestyle to not eat meat, and that people who don't eat meat are onto something, but you personally decide for yourself that you will eat meat, but once in a while at a friend's house have a meat-free meal, Are you a vegetarian?

You still have the BELIEFS of a vegetarian. You just slip up once in a while.

 

 

I was just thinking

In the Bible, Jesus claims to be God. If you don't believe that Jesus is God, (but instead was just a great man, or an important prophet), but you claim to be a Christian >> do you realize the implications of that? I mean Jesus is either God, like he says he is, or he is a complete liar and a fraud.

Well, there are Christians (speaking of Jehovah's Witnesses) who do NOT believe that Jesus is God, but they also don't believe that he is a liar and a fraud. They believe he is the Son and the Savior.

[Rosie_0801]

I was just thinking

In the Bible, Jesus claims to be God. If you don't believe that Jesus is God, (but instead was just a great man, or an important prophet), but you claim to be a Christian >> do you realize the implications of that? I mean Jesus is either God, like he says he is, or he is a complete liar and a fraud.

 

Or that he's been misquoted.

 

Rosie

[JudyJudyJudy]

Or that he's been misquoted.

 

Rosie

Yes, or mistranslated. The possibilities are endless.

[Lovedtodeath]

But that's because your idea of hell is different from that of most other Christians. The JWs I know believe that those who "reject the Truth" won't have eternal life, so ultimately, that's as bad as it gets. As for "destroyed," though, I've read numerous scriptures with that terminology; however, the NWT tends to use expressions like "cut off" instead.

How is it that you always miss my point? I must be communicating badly tonight. My point was that no human can and/or should say or even think, "since this person is not a Jehovah's Witness/ rejected Jehovah's Witnesses then they will not get everlasting life/survive Armeggedon/inherit the Kingdom/live in paradise". I hope that was more clear.

 

It has nothing to do with my idea of hell but since you mentioned it, these are a couple of scriptures that shed some light on that subject:

 

Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.-- Revelation 20:14

 

And do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; but rather be in fear of him that can destroy both soul and body in Ge·hen´na.-- Matthew 10:28

[JudyJudyJudy]

How is it that you always miss my point? I must be communicating badly tonight. My point was that no human can and/or should say or even think, "since this person is not a Jehovah's Witness/ rejected Jehovah's Witnesses then they will not get everlasting life/survive Armeggedon/inherit the Kingdom/live in paradise". I hope that was more clear.

I agree with you. I just wish the other JWs I know agreed with you, but they don't. My mother somewhat does, but I think it's only because she wants to believe that since she has lost a husband and two children who were not JWs. Of course, she still harasses me for not studying. ;)

Edited August 17, 2009 by JudyJudyJudy

[Lovedtodeath]

I agree with you. I just wish the other JWs I know agreed with you, but they don't. My mother somewhat does, but I think it's only because she wants to believe that since she has lost a husband and two children who were not JWs. Of course, she still harasses me for not studying. ;)

(bolding mine) I have been to 2 funerals of people who were disfellowshipped and one who comitted suicide and there is always someone judging harshly, but the funeral talk was about how they had the hope of resurrection. "The wages sin pays is death" "all those in memorial tombs will come out" "resurrection of the righteous and the unrighteous".

 

I do know that Jehovah's Witnesses have the tendency to be judgemental. I also know that Christians in the Bible had that tendency. That is how we have scriptures pertaining to the problem. I have also noticed that the more mature Christians (governing body members, Bethelites, Elders, me :001_huh::lol:) are the least judgemental.

 

My mom harasses me too. I miss too many meetings (nevermind my precancerous condition and a toddler to care for).

 

Curious, when did your mother become a Witness?

 

Oh my, are we hijacking? It is late and I wasn't thinking.

Edited August 17, 2009 by Lovedtodeath

[JudyJudyJudy]

(bolding mine) I have been to 2 funerals of people who were disfellowshipped and one who comitted suicide and there is always someone judging harshly, but the funeral talk was about how they had the hope of resurrection. "The wages sin pays is death" "all those in memorial tombs will come out" "resurrection of the righteous and the unrighteous".

 

I do know that Jehovah's Witnesses have the tendency to be judgemental. I also know that Christians in the Bible had that tendency. That is how we have scriptures pertaining to the problem. I have also noticed that the more mature Christians (governing body members, Bethelites, Elders, me :001_huh::lol:) are the least judgemental.

You're probably right about that. One of my cousins who is an elder is a sweetheart and doesn't seem so judgmental. However, another of my cousins whom I really love is so judgmental that it's difficult to tolerate her at times. I think she's so afraid of doing something wrong. She wasn't even going to go to her own sister's funeral because it was being held in a United Methodist Church. I talked her into going, but she stayed in the lobby during the service.

[JudyJudyJudy]

I'll hijack one more time to answer. You can PM me if you'd like. :)

 

My mom harasses me too. I miss too many meetings (nevermind my precancerous condition and a toddler to care for).

 

I'm sorry. I hope you're okay.

 

Curious, when did your mother become a Witness?

 

She's pretty much been one her entire life. Her maternal grandmother (who was born in 1883 and died during my lifetime) was a Witness before they were even called Jehovah's Witnesses.

 

eta: As judgmental as they may be, the JWs I know are genuinely good and sincere people. As the old expression goes, they mean well.

Edited August 17, 2009 by JudyJudyJudy

[mommaduck]

Or that he's been misquoted.

 

Rosie

 

His claim is what got him crucified.

[Dirtroad]

Okay,

Being born and raised here, I've had plenty of people (Christians) preach to me that I will go to hell for not taking Jesus Christ as my saviour. (not exactly what you want to hear when your sitting down for a cup of coffee and the daily newspaper or while walking to the library with toddler in tow)

 

Evangelism (of old, I will call it) used to hit people between the eyes with the "going to hell".... & this method was effective in many areas b/c my grandparents really responded to it.(I did not) Perhaps people understood sin more ... even if they didn't repent. Perhaps it was shocking or entertaining & got their attention. It doesn't today & often even makes us skeptical or doubtful immediately.

 

I would not listen past the "going to hell comments". I was not a Christian until I was nearly 30 & God sent beautiful witnesses into my life to slowly model his Word to me. No aggression or fear tactics. We just got to know each other in class & clubs & at home.

 

Many Americans (thanks greatly to public schools & apathy of the Christians) don't recognize sin.... they dont' even recognize that they are not the center of the universe themselves & that they do wrong & wicked things regularly!

 

A Christian is supposed to share the love of Christ (& his teachings) with you in a 1000 ways but not beat you over the head with it. We also must not modify His words and present them honestly... we must help define SIN in our lives & model repentance... not just point out the sin of our neighbor. Sometimes the Word is offensive in what is being taught, but we should not be offensive in how we present it or in our mistreatment of another. We are also told in the Bible that most will not accept Christ's teachings and that the road is narrow.... but we should still help, serve, and love our neighbors.

 

My post was bringing the 2 relegions together in context of Chrisitan scripture & the fact that Christ will not (in HIS teachings) allow them to blend... but oh, how Americans want to have it all.

 

I am glad that I was able to better clarify this & appreciate your reply in the conversation. No harshness was intended.;)

[Peela]

His claim is what got him crucified.

 

Again, so the many times rewritten Bible says, and I dont know enough to know whether all Bibles put it that way, anyway.

[KingM]

Many Americans (thanks greatly to public schools & apathy of the Christians) don't recognize sin.... they dont' even recognize that they are not the center of the universe themselves & that they do wrong & wicked things regularly!

 

 

From an Evangelical viewpoint, isn't America the most Christian nation on Earth?