Jump to content

Menu

We Are All Hindus Now?


Recommended Posts

There's an interesting article in Newsweek about how Americans' views of who will or will not have salvation. Apparently, Americans are coming more and more to believe that many faiths might lead to salvation, even as they personally remain Christian.

 

According to a 2008 Pew Forum survey, 65 percent of us believe that "many religions can lead to eternal life"—including 37 percent of white evangelicals, the group most likely to believe that salvation is theirs alone. Also, the number of people who seek spiritual truth outside church is growing. Thirty percent of Americans call themselves "spiritual, not religious," according to a 2009 NEWSWEEK Poll, up from 24 percent in 2005. Stephen Prothero, religion professor at Boston University, has long framed the American propensity for "the divine-deli-cafeteria religion" as "very much in the spirit of Hinduism. You're not picking and choosing from different religions, because they're all the same," he says. "It isn't about orthodoxy. It's about whatever works. If going to yoga works, great—and if going to Catholic mass works, great. And if going to Catholic mass plus the yoga plus the Buddhist retreat works, that's great, too."

 

But I wonder, since most of the population remains Christian, and has nothing to do with traditional Hindu beliefs, if this shift isn't more akin to embracing universalism than anything.

 

Thoughts?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 382
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Being a non-Christian in a Christian country, I get the question a lot. What happens when you die? Frankly, I don't know. But I would hate to think that one religion has a monopoly on heaven, if there is one.

FWIW, this is very close to my heart right now. We went to a funeral yesterday for a 25 year old man who committed suicide last Monday. It was devestating. The minister (an evangelical who was from the man's father's church) actually told the grieving audience that "due to the circumstances surrounding this man's death he was probably not headed to heaven." He also said if we don't repent now we were playing "Russian roulette with our souls." The man shot himself. I thought it was in very poor taste. My dh and I left and waited in the lobby until he was finished speaking, which was 40 minutes later. He wouldn't let the friends come up and speak. Luckily, upon talking with the family afterwards, they were so upset and distraught that they didn't listen to what the preacher was saying. If I had been family, I would have stopped him.

Anyway, my point is that I don't feel it's my place to judge others and their beliefs. I just hope to live the best life I can with kindness and integrity. This man did, he just got lost along the way and in a weak moment did something very permanent. I think a kind God would understand and accept him regardless. JMHO.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My feeling is as a nation, we have long since forgotten what "Christian" really means. Just as your not a car if you are in the garage, you are not a Christian for just going to church/your parents were/you never killed anyone.

 

That, and a bit of political correctness thrown in!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Being a non-Christian in a Christian country, I get the question a lot. What happens when you die? Frankly, I don't know. But I would hate to think that one religion has a monopoly on heaven, if there is one.

 

 

Christians are followers of Jesus Christ. Christianity is not a religion; it's a relationship.

 

No religion has a "monopoly" on heaven.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Christ says " I am the WAY, the TRUTH & the LIGHT... NO ONE goes to the FATHER except through ME". (not good works, not many prayers, not kharma or reincarnations, not Allah, not Zeus, not the waters or earth, etc).

 

Now, you can try to say that means everyone but it is very specific in this wording. If a person claims to be a Christian but denies this verse (and many others of similar teaching), then I think they may have misunderstandings of the Christian faith.

 

To say all faiths lead to heaven is to be a universalist & not a believer in the teachings of Christ that are in the Bible. There are some denominations who still claim to be Christian but REJECT the scriptures (or pick & choose). Honestly, I don't think we can pick & chose scripture based on our desires or whims.... we must basically reject it all b/c selective reading discredits it all (and is a rejection). I am speaking on basic core Christian teachings (and not how wet you get in a baptism, etc)

 

To believe all relegions lead to heaven is also poorly informed/poorly read in Scripture or brings the concept of heaven/peace to a earthly (& pitiful) level. Remember, not all relegions teach to serve each other, love the enemies, help the helpless, save the weak, surrender what is Ceasers unless it conflicts with what is God's, etc. Some relegions teach revenge, spite, cannibalism, rape, murder/sacrifice, abuse, no forgiveness, kill or cast out the widows, etc. Relegions are not equal in teachings & will offer different heaven definitions.

 

You can't have it all & make them all fit. But Americans sure try....

 

This is not meant to be offensive or argumentative - just defining & explaining a view point that wasn't already posted. As for answering the OP & this concept, the Hindus who have rejected Christ will not enter into God's kingdom/heaven.

 

I think the Newsweek article shows how poorly read & poorly studied the American people are in Scripture... not books, and 8 step programs, and how to Bible studies.... but true READING of scripture. We want the buffet & treat Christianity like a good old lucky rabbits foot. My dad says he is a Christian... but get specific with him & he HAS NO IDEA & rejects much of the teachings. Say what he will, he is not. These articles do not screen for such. Honestly, I think they actually like the idea of Christianity losing ground. Without that line of accountability that scripture gives a society... you can do anything & find your own justification for doing so!

Edited by Dirtroad
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You seem to have a big preoccupation with religion and especially showing negativity towards Christians. Have you noticed that? You're "open-minded" to polyamory but not to anything remotely Christian it seems. Fascinating. :)

To whom was this addressed? I missed any negativity toward Christians on this thread.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Christ says " I am the WAY, the TRUTH & the LIGHT... NO ONE goes to the FATHER except through ME". (not good works, not many prayers, not kharma or reincarnations, not Allah, not Zeus, not the waters or earth, etc).

 

Now, you can try to say that means everyone but it is very specific in this wording. If a person claims to be a Christian but denies this verse (and many others of similar teaching), then I think they may have misunderstandings of the Christian faith.

 

To say all faiths lead to heaven is to be a universalist & not a believer in the teachings of Christ that are in the Bible. There are some denominations who still claim to be Christian but REJECT the scriptures (or pick & choose). Honestly, I don't think we can pick & chose scripture based on our desires or whims.... we must basically reject it all b/c selective reading discredits it all (and is a rejection). I am speaking on basic core Christian teachings (and not how wet you get in a baptism, etc)

 

To believe all relegions lead to heaven is also poorly informed/poorly read in Scripture or brings the concept of heaven/peace to a earthly (& pitiful) level. Remember, not all relegions teach to serve each other, love the enemies, help the helpless, save the weak, surrender what is Ceasers unless it conflicts with what is God's, etc. Some relegions teach revenge, spite, cannibalism, rape, murder/sacrifice, abuse, no forgiveness, kill or cast out the widows, etc. Relegions are not equal in teachings & will offer different heaven definitions.

 

You can't have it all & make them all fit. But Americans sure try....

 

This is not meant to be offensive or argumentative - just defining & explaining a view point that wasn't already posted. As for answering the OP & this concept, the Hindus who have rejected Christ will not enter into God's kingdom/heaven.

 

I think the Newsweek article shows how poorly read & poorly studied the American people are in Scripture... not books, and 12 step programs, and how to Bible studies.... but true READING of scripture. We want the buffet & treat Christianity like a good old lucky rabbits foot. My dad says he is a Christian... but get specific with him & he HAS NO IDEA & rejects much of the teachings. Say what he will, he is not. These articles do not screen for such. They actually like the idea of Christianity losing ground. Without that line of accountability that scripture gives a society... you can do anything & find your own justification for doing so!

 

:iagree: well said

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I think the Newsweek article shows how poorly read & poorly studied the American people are in Scripture... not books, and 8 step programs, and how to Bible studies.... but true READING of scripture. We want the buffet & treat Christianity like a good old lucky rabbits foot. My dad says he is a Christian... but get specific with him & he HAS NO IDEA & rejects much of the teachings. Say what he will, he is not. These articles do not screen for such. Honestly, I think they actually like the idea of Christianity losing ground. Without that line of accountability that scripture gives a society... you can do anything & find your own justification for doing so!
:iagree: Thank you for posting this!
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm sorry to hear about the bad experience with the funeral of someone who committed suicide. One of my most moving experiences was a co-worker's funeral (who had committed suicide), and the Episcopal priest told us that "God is always waiting with open arms for us."

 

For what it is worth, I'm a Christian. I don't interpret the Bible literally. I always imagine Jesus and Buddha somewhere, shaking their heads together, wondering why we still don't get along, thousands of years after they tried to tell us about love and peace.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Christ says " I am the WAY, the TRUTH & the LIGHT... NO ONE goes to the FATHER except through ME". (not good works, not many prayers, not kharma or reincarnations, not Allah, not Zeus, not the waters or earth, etc).

 

Now, you can try to say that means everyone but it is very specific in this wording. If a person claims to be a Christian but denies this verse (and many others of similar teaching), then I think they may have misunderstandings of the Christian faith.

 

To say all faiths lead to heaven is to be a universalist & not a believer in the teachings of Christ that are in the Bible. There are some denominations who still claim to be Christian but REJECT the scriptures (or pick & choose). Honestly, I don't think we can pick & chose scripture based on our desires or whims.... we must basically reject it all b/c selective reading discredits it all (and is a rejection). I am speaking on basic core Christian teachings (and not how wet you get in a baptism, etc)

 

To believe all relegions lead to heaven is also poorly informed/poorly read in Scripture or brings the concept of heaven/peace to a earthly (& pitiful) level. Remember, not all relegions teach to serve each other, love the enemies, help the helpless, save the weak, surrender what is Ceasers unless it conflicts with what is God's, etc. Some relegions teach revenge, spite, cannibalism, rape, murder/sacrifice, abuse, no forgiveness, kill or cast out the widows, etc. Relegions are not equal in teachings & will offer different heaven definitions.

 

You can't have it all & make them all fit. But Americans sure try....

 

This is not meant to be offensive or argumentative - just defining & explaining a view point that wasn't already posted. As for answering the OP & this concept, the Hindus who have rejected Christ will not enter into God's kingdom/heaven.

 

I think the Newsweek article shows how poorly read & poorly studied the American people are in Scripture... not books, and 8 step programs, and how to Bible studies.... but true READING of scripture. We want the buffet & treat Christianity like a good old lucky rabbits foot. My dad says he is a Christian... but get specific with him & he HAS NO IDEA & rejects much of the teachings. Say what he will, he is not. These articles do not screen for such. Honestly, I think they actually like the idea of Christianity losing ground. Without that line of accountability that scripture gives a society... you can do anything & find your own justification for doing so!

 

:iagree:

 

 

 

Amen! Well said!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Most Americans certainly won't be giving up their beef any time soon. I don't see how having a buffet-style approach to religion, is being Hindu-like. I don't think that the following statement is in any way a reflection of Hindu beliefs:

A Hindu believes there are many paths to God. Jesus is one way, the Qur'an is another, yoga practice is a third. None is better than any other; all are equal.

 

I don't think the fact that cremation has become more popular proves there's been much of a conversion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it reflects, in many cases, an ignorance among many Americans of what the Bible actually teaches, more than anything. There are so many Bible verses that refute this viewpoint, that it's difficult to know where to start in addressing it. I guess this one is as clear as any: Jesus Himself said "Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few." (Matthew 7:13-14)

 

In fact, I would venture to say that the Bible makes no sense at all, if all roads lead to heaven and Christianity is no different than any other religion. This view is a rejection of the New Testament, imo, not an interpretation. I think it would have been pretty silly of Jesus to die and suffer on the cross if it didn't matter whether He did or not.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Within my "household of faith" (i.e. Orthodoxy), what is discussed in the article is the heresy of syncretism, sometimes referred to as "ecumenism". (Note: Ecumenism is NOT the same thing as ecumenical.)

 

Not held by any members of my family.

 

 

There's an interesting article in Newsweek about how Americans' views of who will or will not have salvation. Apparently, Americans are coming more and more to believe that many faiths might lead to salvation, even as they personally remain Christian.

 

 

 

But I wonder, since most of the population remains Christian, and has nothing to do with traditional Hindu beliefs, if this shift isn't more akin to embracing universalism than anything.

 

Thoughts?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is an interesting idea to wrap my mind around. Why, if a person rejects God's kingdom while they are on earth, would they then expect God's kingdom to accept them when they die?

If you want nothing to do with the Bible or the Christianity of CHRIST, for who the faith was named, would you expect to spend eternity with Christ and God in heaven. Or - why would you even want to?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is an interesting idea to wrap my mind around. Why, if a person rejects God's kingdom while they are on earth, would they then expect God's kingdom to accept them when they die?

If you want nothing to do with the Bible or the Christianity of CHRIST, for who the faith was named, would you expect to spend eternity with Christ and God in heaven. Or - why would you even want to?

 

:iagree:

 

And if you don't believe in Christ or heaven then it should be a non issue.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's an interesting article in Newsweek about how Americans' views of who will or will not have salvation. Apparently, Americans are coming more and more to believe that many faiths might lead to salvation, even as they personally remain Christian.

 

 

 

But I wonder, since most of the population remains Christian, and has nothing to do with traditional Hindu beliefs, if this shift isn't more akin to embracing universalism than anything.

 

Thoughts?

As a follower of Christ, I have learned to use and receive the word Christian loosely. Many, many, many and still many more of the people I know call themselves Christian b/c they were raised as such, but truly have no idea of the foundations of the faith, so I can see why the poll percentages say we are a Christian nation, I'd guess there's a large chunk of those polled who are by name, but not by deed.

 

I agree with you KingM. I see this as a shift toward universalism. I believe that shift is apparent in politics, as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree with this as well. There is a whole spectrum of people nowadays who believe in selective reality. In other words, if you believe it to be so, than it is so for you. It all depends on what you mean by "is".

 

I agree with you KingM. I see this as a shift toward universalism. I believe that shift is apparent in politics, as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am not surprised that is the direction of the trend in America. We are practically famous for not sticking to the straight and narrow, for anything, not just religious beliefs. We always want to do things our way and have the freedom to do whatever appeals in the short-term. Unfortunately, that is not what the Christian Bible teaches.

 

The term "heaven", as most Americans think of it, is a Christian construct. It is a place Christians believe they will go when they die, if they have accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior and accepted the forgiveness for their sins that was bought by the blood He shed on the cross. The Bible teaches that this heaven is the destination only for those who believe this.

 

Somehow, many have interpreted the information about God being a loving God to mean that you can get to the Christian heaven through other methods. However, the Bible explicitly says otherwise. And since I believe the Bible, I am one of the oddballs who believes that only true Christians will go to Christian heaven. The Bible also says it is not for me to be able to discern exactly whom among us here on earth ARE Bible believing Christians. There are people I see every Sunday in church who have not dealt with the one key point on which heaven hinges and they will not be there. There will be others who don't really look heaven-bound on the outside who will be there.

 

Is this harsh or exclusionary? I don't think so. Everyone has equal opportunity to believe. Everyone has to make their own choice.

 

It interests me why so many who don't follow the Bible here on earth desire to follow it in the afterlife (only to the good place:)). If you're not a Christian, why would living forever with God be appealing to you? If you want to go there, do what it takes to secure that while here on earth. If you don't want to do those things, then plan to go elsewhere when you die. It's as simple as that.

 

Do other religions experience this same thing of non-believers claiming to be able to work, love, or otherwise gain entry into their good afterlife place, in general non-accordance with the religion's sacred texts? Are there people who believe they will be going to the Moslems' multi-virgin place, even though they have not done what the Koran says you should in order to get to go?

Edited by hillfarm
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am not surprised that is the direction of the trend in America. We are practically famous for not sticking to the straight and narrow, for anything, not just religious beliefs. We always want to do things our way and have the freedom to do whatever appeals in the short-term. Unfortunately, that is not what the Christian Bible teaches.

 

The term "heaven", as most Americans think of it, is a Christian construct. It is a place Christians believe they will go when they die, if they have accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior and accepted the forgiveness for their sins that was bought by the blood He shed on the cross. The Bible teaches that this heaven is the destination only for those who believe this.

 

Somehow, many have interpreted the information about God being a loving God to mean that you can get to the Christian heaven through other methods. However, the Bible explicitly says otherwise. And since I believe the Bible, I am one of the oddballs who believes that only true Christians will go to Christian heaven. The Bible also says it is not for me to be able to discern exactly whom among us here on earth ARE Bible believing Christians. There are people I see every Sunday in church who have not dealt with the one key point on which heaven hinges and they will not be there. There will be others who don't really look heaven-bound on the outside who will be there.

 

Is this harsh or exclusionary? I don't think so. Everyone has equal opportunity to believe. Everyone has to make their own choice.

 

It interests me why so many who don't follow the Bible here on earth desire to follow it in the afterlife (only to the good place:)). If you're not a Christian, why would living forever with God be appealing to you? If you want to go there, do what it takes to secure that while here on earth. If you don't want to do those things, then plan to go elsewhere when you die. It's as simple as that.

 

Do other religions experience this same thing of non-believers claiming to be able to work, love, or otherwise gain entry into their good afterlife place, in general non-accordance with the religion's sacred texts? Are there people who believe they will be going to the Moslems' multi-virgin place, even though they have not done what the Koran says you should in order to get to go?

 

Good post & good question!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This article described postmodern thought...and not specifically Hinduism.

 

The whole "what is right for you is right for you, what is right for me is right for me" idea is flawed at the core. We can dress it up however we like, but it's all the same. "There is NO absolute Truth" is the essential truth.

 

Evangelical Christians (white, and other races too;)...it's petty to use race as a defining factor in an article like that imho, but I digress) believe in an absolute Truth - a plumbline by which we measure all else. This is why Christianity is hated by so many. There mere act of believing the Bible is an assault on other beliefs.

 

The public schools teach postmodern thought at every turn. It's sometimes subtle, sometimes not. This, more than differences of opinion in science and history, is the reason so many Christians pull their kids out. The *Worldview* is as different as night and day. The stats are no suprise to me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As a follower of Christ, I have learned to use and receive the word Christian loosely. Many, many, many and still many more of the people I know call themselves Christian b/c they were raised as such, but truly have no idea of the foundations of the faith, so I can see why the poll percentages say we are a Christian nation, I'd guess there's a large chunk of those polled who are by name, but not by deed.

 

I agree with you KingM. I see this as a shift toward universalism. I believe that shift is apparent in politics, as well.

 

It may be shifting but the media presents it more so to encourage it. Relativism & universalism allow you to basically justify anything you want to do! Honestly, anything.

 

Cremation has more to do with economics & space in the graveyard... not faith. The body is dirt... in any form. I think the old seperation was a way to "set themselves apart" from the pagan or other relegions in a country/region.

 

It shows up well in politics b/c so many want to please everybody & not truly stand for anything. By standing in the middle of these such categories/issues, the politician seems to try to appeal to everyone. However, shifting sands can cover you up! One of the reasons we need LEADERS & STATESMAN... not more politicians & baby kissing bums!;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just hope to live the best life I can with kindness and integrity. This man did, he just got lost along the way and in a weak moment did something very permanent. I think a kind God would understand and accept him regardless. JMHO.
:iagree:

 

There's an interesting article in Newsweek about how Americans' views of who will or will not have salvation. Apparently, Americans are coming more and more to believe that many faiths might lead to salvation, even as they personally remain Christian.

Thoughts?

When someone disagrees with the bolded statement above, they are called unloving and judgemental and have many jumping down their throats. So the fact that most people claim to agree with it is no wonder to me.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It interests me why so many who don't follow the Bible here on earth desire to follow it in the afterlife (only to the good place:)).

 

 

I find it especially *interesting* when people get "saved" when they know they're near death's door -- elderly or sick, or both. I see it happen all the time that someone elderly or sick will go to, or back to, a church, when the vast majority of their lives, they've stayed away and not held to that church's definition of what it is to be that kind of christian. I've even heard people (locally) say that they need to go to the church regularly so they can get a spot in that church's cemetary because that's where their other family is buried.

 

I don't think that's being a christian. I think it's just hedging your bets. You're either a member of a religion, or you're not. Pretending to be something you aren't isn't doing yourself or your chosen religion any favours.

Edited by Audrey
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It may be shifting but the media presents it more so to encourage it.

 

As does many of the materials used in education, many television shows.

 

My dh is 10 years older than I (I'm 35). He hates wearing his seatbelt. I Always put mine on, usually before I even start the car. I recycle, he does, but only b/c I get on him :).

 

My point? I believe it's b/c of what we learned in school. His generation wasn't taught, aka brainwashed, to do either; however when I was in school, both of those things were pushed at every opportunity. As was tolerance and unity amongst cultures. I can't count how many times I was shown the kids from different nations, standing in circles, holding hands with big old smiles on their faces.

 

Now, the examples I gave are not bad things, but I use them to point out how in ps I was showered and showered by a certain agenda and much of it stuck.

 

With the influence of all the things I mentioned earlier in this post, I'm not surprised at all of the swing in the Universalism direction.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I find it especially *interesting* when people get "saved" when they know they're near death's door -- elderly or sick, or both. I see it happen all the time that someone elderly or sick will go to, or back to, a church, when the vast majority of their lives, they've stayed away and not held to that church's definition of what it is to be that kind of christian. I've even heard people (locally) say that they need to go to the church regularly so they can get a spot in that church's cemetary because that's where their other family is buried.

 

I don't think that's being a christian. I think it's just hedging your bets. You're either a member of a religion, or you're not. Pretending to be something you aren't isn't doing yourself or your chosen religion any favours.

:iagree: Not that I doubt some people do see things differently in adversity, but I agree with what you're saying.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is an interesting idea to wrap my mind around. Why, if a person rejects God's kingdom while they are on earth, would they then expect God's kingdom to accept them when they die?

If you want nothing to do with the Bible or the Christianity of CHRIST, for who the faith was named, would you expect to spend eternity with Christ and God in heaven. Or - why would you even want to?

 

:iagree:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Meriam-Webster defines heaven:

 

Main Entry: heav·en Pronunciation: \ˈhe-vən\

Function: noun

Etymology: Middle English heven, from Old English heofon; akin to Old High German himil heaven

Date: before 12th century

 

1 : the expanse of space that seems to be over the earth like a dome : firmament —usually used in plural

 

2 a often capitalized : the dwelling place of the Deity and the blessed dead b : a spiritual state of everlasting communion with God

 

3 capitalized : god 1

 

4 : a place or condition of utmost happiness

 

5 Christian Science : a state of thought in which sin is absent and the harmony of divine Mind is manifest

 

Not everyone equates heaven with God's kingdom.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That was just a weird article. In order to be Hindu, I would think you would have to believe what Hindus believe, not just share a few beliefs.

 

I think it is just a natural result of Americans treating religion like we treat any other commercial enterprise in this country. We like our fast food restaurants and 8 different grocery stores and 4 different drug stores. We like to pick and choose what we want. It's only natural that attitude would spill over into our religious views as well. My dh spent much of his childhood in a 300-person town in Idaho (probably all white!--what a weird thing to throw in that article too). Even that tiny little town had at least 4 or 5 churches to choose from. Throw in that attitude along with (1) even most Christians don't know what the Bible says, (2) most people nowdays don't have a problem holding contradictory views anyway, and (3) religion is viewed as something personal, not as objective truth.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm sure people who do not equate heaven with God, should also not equate themselves with Christian. Christian by definition is a follower of Christ.

 

I'm not sure I understand this. I am supposing you are meaning that some people say they believe in heaven but do not believe in Christ? The definitions I listed show that heaven is not seen as a Christian idea only.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would pretty much agree with the article, in what it reflects of modern trends. I think there is good and bad in it. I think people feel they are "spiritual" if they do a bit of yoga or whatever, or have an altar, or a buddha in the backyard. Spiritual materialism is rampant. Its somehow satisfying to feel confused, and then feel better because you can go buy something that makes you feel more spiritual, or do something, as in attend a workshop or burn some incense. Or even go to church, of course.

I do believe spirituality can cross many religions or no religions, but I think it's also getting watered down in the process.

 

I believe God is a God of absolute unconditional love, for all of His creation, every last particle- unconditional means, you don't even have to believe in Him. Many religions know this but few teach it. Christianity seems to mix in some wrath and judgement and revenge with the Love, and they dont actually mix. Either he is All Love, or the other, can't be both, IMO.

All religions get caught up in dogma and creeds and scriptures that have been altered and changed to suit the powers that be over the centuries. I dont know why or how God specifically chose to keep the Bible as the untouched literal Word of God, when everything else has been tampered with, and mere humans have done plenty of translating and copying. I think people want to strip away the dogma, and find the essence. You have to have an open mind to start on that journey, and the trends we are seeing are a reflection of people actually trying to find the truth, and getting caught in all sorts of things along the way, including spiritual materialism.

 

And btw, to someone who doesn't take the Bible literally, you can't quote the Bible at them as if its the literal truth and expect them to agree with you. It's a belief- believing in the Bible literally is a belief. And many people, including me, want to examine all beliefs and see what holds water and what doesn't. I do think its a good thing. Truth is Truth, and I believe it can handle some scepticism and a genuine, sincere searching heart.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Christ says " I am the WAY, the TRUTH & the LIGHT... NO ONE goes to the FATHER except through ME". (not good works, not many prayers, not kharma or reincarnations, not Allah, not Zeus, not the waters or earth, etc).

 

Now, you can try to say that means everyone but it is very specific in this wording. If a person claims to be a Christian but denies this verse (and many others of similar teaching), then I think they may have misunderstandings of the Christian faith.

 

To say all faiths lead to heaven is to be a universalist & not a believer in the teachings of Christ that are in the Bible. There are some denominations who still claim to be Christian but REJECT the scriptures (or pick & choose). Honestly, I don't think we can pick & chose scripture based on our desires or whims.... we must basically reject it all b/c selective reading discredits it all (and is a rejection). I am speaking on basic core Christian teachings (and not how wet you get in a baptism, etc)

 

To believe all relegions lead to heaven is also poorly informed/poorly read in Scripture or brings the concept of heaven/peace to a earthly (& pitiful) level. Remember, not all relegions teach to serve each other, love the enemies, help the helpless, save the weak, surrender what is Ceasers unless it conflicts with what is God's, etc. Some relegions teach revenge, spite, cannibalism, rape, murder/sacrifice, abuse, no forgiveness, kill or cast out the widows, etc. Relegions are not equal in teachings & will offer different heaven definitions.

 

 

 

This is not meant to be offensive or argumentative - just defining & explaining a view point that wasn't already posted. As for answering the OP & this concept, the Hindus who have rejected Christ will not enter into God's kingdom/heaven.

 

I think the Newsweek article shows how poorly read & poorly studied the American people are in Scripture... not books, and 8 step programs, and how to Bible studies.... but true READING of scripture. We want the buffet & treat Christianity like a good old lucky rabbits foot. My dad says he is a Christian... but get specific with him & he HAS NO IDEA & rejects much of the teachings. Say what he will, he is not. These articles do not screen for such. Honestly, I think they actually like the idea of Christianity losing ground. Without that line of accountability that scripture gives a society... you can do anything & find your own justification for doing so!

 

 

Wow, I'm almost speechless. I thought according to Christian belief it is God's job to judge.

 

Can you be more specific as to which religions teach to kill, rape, etc? I cannot think of any. Just as it happens in Christianity, many people twist the scriptures of other religions around fanatically. Doesn't mean the religion itself teaches these things.

 

Have you studied other religions independently of a Christian viewpoint? Have you spoken in depth with others of different religions? Not all the lines in other religions scriptures can be easily interpreted to an English understanding, there are deeper levels of understanding, not just a translated sentence.

 

As for Hinduism, the proper term is Sanatama Dharma, it's not a religion it is a way of life, a philosophy if you will. And it's not your job to decide if a billion people on earth who believe in this will go to hell.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow, I'm almost speechless. I thought according to Christian belief it is God's job to judge.

 

Can you be more specific as to which religions teach to kill, rape, etc? I cannot think of any. Just as it happens in Christianity, many people twist the scriptures of other religions around fanatically. Doesn't mean the religion itself teaches these things.

 

Have you studied other religions independently of a Christian viewpoint? Have you spoken in depth with others of different religions? Not all the lines in other religions scriptures can be easily interpreted to an English understanding, there are deeper levels of understanding, not just a translated sentence.

 

As for Hinduism, the proper term is Sanatama Dharma, it's not a religion it is a way of life, a philosophy if you will. And it's not your job to decide if a billion people on earth who believe in this will go to hell.

 

Do Hindus believe in hell?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow, I'm almost speechless. I thought according to Christian belief it is God's job to judge.

 

Can you be more specific as to which religions teach to kill, rape, etc? I cannot think of any. Just as it happens in Christianity, many people twist the scriptures of other religions around fanatically. Doesn't mean the religion itself teaches these things.

 

Have you studied other religions independently of a Christian viewpoint? Have you spoken in depth with others of different religions? Not all the lines in other religions scriptures can be easily interpreted to an English understanding, there are deeper levels of understanding, not just a translated sentence.

 

As for Hinduism, the proper term is Sanatama Dharma, it's not a religion it is a way of life, a philosophy if you will. And it's not your job to decide if a billion people on earth who believe in this will go to hell.

 

Christianity is a relationship and a way of life, tyvm. Most faiths are also ways of life. The two go hand in hand and is why you cannot ask someone to compartmentalise their faith by "keeping it at home and out of the secular sphere". A person's faith is part of who they are and affects all their decisions and their way of thinking.

 

This is also the issue in France and other places. The French want to ban faith from the "secular sphere" (whatever the dickens that is supposed to be...pretty subjective as far as I'm concerned). Their reasoning is they want ppl to be French first. That isn't the way faith works. You aren't a French citizen that is Jewish/Christian/Muslim/Hindu/Atheist....you are your faith first, that is what makes much of who you are...you are a Jewish/Christian/Muslim/Hindu/Atheist that is French. Would you die first for your country or for your convictions, if you had to choose?

Edited by mommaduck
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not sure I understand this. I am supposing you are meaning that some people say they believe in heaven but do not believe in Christ? The definitions I listed show that heaven is not seen as a Christian idea only.

 

No, What I mean exactly is that if you don't equate heaven with God and Christ, you probably shouldn't call yourself a Christian.

If you relate heaven to something else, that's your business, but don't call yourself a Christian. Call yourself a whatever-ian.;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you want nothing to do with the Bible or the Christianity of CHRIST, for who the faith was named, would you expect to spend eternity with Christ and God in heaven. Or - why would you even want to?

 

I think that a lot of people believe in heaven and an afterlife but also believe that the Bible and Christian doctrine are just one way of describing it. I know a lot of people who believe in a heaven (little h) that is not the specific domain of Christianity's god.

 

Tara

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the Hindu thing is a red herring, as of course, these views are not Hindu, per se, even if they have something in common with Hinduism.

 

It seems like three possibilities are being raised here.

 

1. It's the current political correctness: I'm okay, you're okay.

2. It's the reality of living in a multi-cultural, multi-faith society. If you have good neighbors who are Muslim/Jewish/Agnostic, it's hard to wrap your mind around the fact that they may, in fact, be spending the afterlife in hell.

3. It's a religious shift similar to what happened ~1800, where universalism is on the rise vis a vis other flavors of Christianity. Much of the 20th Century was about the rise of evangelical Christianity and maybe this is a reaction. (Of course, that could still leave #1 partially responsible for causing this shift.)

 

I suspect it's all three of these things, but mostly #2.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would pretty much agree with the article, in what it reflects of modern trends. I think there is good and bad in it. I think people feel they are "spiritual" if they do a bit of yoga or whatever, or have an altar, or a buddha in the backyard. Spiritual materialism is rampant. Its somehow satisfying to feel confused, and then feel better because you can go buy something that makes you feel more spiritual, or do something, as in attend a workshop or burn some incense. Or even go to church, of course.

I do believe spirituality can cross many religions or no religions, but I think it's also getting watered down in the process.

 

I believe God is a God of absolute unconditional love, for all of His creation, every last particle- unconditional means, you don't even have to believe in Him. Many religions know this but few teach it. Christianity seems to mix in some wrath and judgement and revenge with the Love, and they dont actually mix. Either he is All Love, or the other, can't be both, IMO.

All religions get caught up in dogma and creeds and scriptures that have been altered and changed to suit the powers that be over the centuries. I dont know why or how God specifically chose to keep the Bible as the untouched literal Word of God, when everything else has been tampered with, and mere humans have done plenty of translating and copying. I think people want to strip away the dogma, and find the essence. You have to have an open mind to start on that journey, and the trends we are seeing are a reflection of people actually trying to find the truth, and getting caught in all sorts of things along the way, including spiritual materialism.

 

And btw, to someone who doesn't take the Bible literally, you can't quote the Bible at them as if its the literal truth and expect them to agree with you. It's a belief- believing in the Bible literally is a belief. And many people, including me, want to examine all beliefs and see what holds water and what doesn't. I do think its a good thing. Truth is Truth, and I believe it can handle some scepticism and a genuine, sincere searching heart.

 

:iagree:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think that a lot of people believe in heaven and an afterlife but also believe that the Bible and Christian doctrine are just one way of describing it. I know a lot of people who believe in a heaven (little h) that is not the specific domain of Christianity's god.

 

Tara

 

And that's fine - everyone can believe what they want. That's the essence of religious freedom/free will. My only point is that if you don't believe in Christ and the Bible, which is where we learn of Christ and God - Christianity, then you shouldn't raise your hand when someone asks "who here is a Christian."

KWIM?

 

As a side note: The way you (tara) describe "other people's heaven" is much different than the poster who made a comment about God and Buddha chatting in heaven. The latter is a _____? notion. I don't even know how to "adjectize" it.

Another side note: normally when I type you, I mean "a person", but I am too lazy to change it:)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think that a lot of people believe in heaven and an afterlife but also believe that the Bible and Christian doctrine are just one way of describing it. I know a lot of people who believe in a heaven (little h) that is not the specific domain of Christianity's god.

 

Tara

 

I completely agree.

 

Not everyone's definition of heaven is the Christian/Biblical definition of heaven.

 

Not everyone who believes in God believes that Jesus Christ is the one Savior.

 

So, it isn't as if the people in that group are rejecting the Kingdom of God while on earth, and then hoping to be welcomed into it after death. Rather, some of us firmly believe in God and heaven, both on earth and after death, but it simply isn't the same God and heaven of Christians, or at least of those who believe in a literal translation of the bible.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share


×
×
  • Create New...