Selective Service Registration Mandatory????

[cupajoe]

there is a lot of psychological brainwashing involved. They berate you. They scream at you. They make you sing songs about smashing little bird's heads. They physically torture and abuse you.... But, hey, you can't kill people without feeling and thought...if you are not trained to do so.

 

 

Unfortunately, the military is being grossly mischaracterized throughout this thread. If you honestly think our men and women in uniform “kill without feeling and thought†you must never have met an American soldier. War is not pretty. I defy you to find ONE soldier on whom the act of killing another human being has not taken a physical or psychological toll.

 

It is unbelievable to me that as Americans we can extol the virtues of “freedomâ€, yet condemn the actions of our military servicemembers, without whom such freedom would be non-existent.

 

My husband’s favorite quote is by George Orwell…

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

 

 

Sleep well…my husband has got your back, regardless of whether or not you’ve got his.

[Margaret in GA]

Unfortunately, the military is being grossly mischaracterized throughout this thread. If you honestly think our men and women in uniform “kill without feeling and thought†you must never have met an American soldier. War is not pretty. I defy you to find ONE soldier on whom the act of killing another human being has not taken a physical or psychological toll.

 

It is unbelievable to me that as Americans we can extol the virtues of “freedomâ€, yet condemn the actions of our military servicemembers, without whom such freedom would be non-existent.

 

My husband’s favorite quote is by George Orwell…

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

 

 

Sleep well…my husband has got your back, regardless of whether or not you’ve got his.

 

I don't think any one on this board means to criticize the military men and women who serve. But, I do think we can and should be critical of the decision made by our government to put our brave men and women in harm's way. Some of us believe that it is done too lightly and too frequently. That's why I'm not going to demonize the guy that moves to Canada any more than I demonize your husband. Because all this talk of freedom that was black and white in 1776, is a little gray nowadays.

[pqr]

That's why I'm not going to demonize the guy that moves to Canada any more than I demonize your husband. Because all this talk of freedom that was black and white in 1776, is a little gray nowadays.

 

Actually it was not black and white in 1776, honorable men served on both sides and the American loyalist was not always a blaggard.

 

Anyway some of these posts speak of those sniveling little cowards who, once in uniform, ran away to Canada and let others do what they did not have the spine to do.

 

A CO who stands up for his beliefs and takes whatever he has coming deserves some modicum of respect. A man who states "I will not fight" and is willing to take punishment for that deserves some modicum of respect. A man who says "I simply can not do this anymore" deserves respect......but those in uniform who run to Canada are simply yellow!

 

As to the guy that moves to Canada to avoid service, provided he does this BEFORE he is called up, I have little truck with him. Nevertheless once he has made that decision he should stick to it and stay there.

[Peek a Boo]

Unfortunately, the military is being grossly mischaracterized throughout this thread. If you honestly think our men and women in uniform “kill without feeling and thought†you must never have met an American soldier. War is not pretty. I defy you to find ONE soldier on whom the act of killing another human being has not taken a physical or psychological toll.

 

no disagreement here.

 

It is unbelievable to me that as Americans we can extol the virtues of “freedomâ€, yet condemn the actions of our military servicemembers, without whom such freedom would be non-existent.

 

My husband’s favorite quote is by George Orwell…

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

i guess I would disagree w/ the Orwell quote:

 

I sleep peaceably in bed because my faith is not dependent on the actions of the US Military. There are a lot of other people in the world that do not have the benefit of the US Military that can say the same thing.

 

"freedom" is not the same thing to everyone :)

[tdeveson]

I fail to understand why anyone would have a problem with this.

 

I don't. I find it invasive. IMHO, those who want to serve should. Those who do not wish to be forced to go to foreign countries and kill people they have never met, should not have to. In this country, there is never a shortage of people willing to strap on a gun and kill whatever reason.

[tdeveson]

IF there is a draft again, there's always Canada. Forced military service is one of the grounds upon which you can file for refugee status.

 

I thank God every day that dh is Canadian.

[TXMomof4]

I don't think any one on this board means to criticize the military men and women who serve. But, I do think we can and should be critical of the decision made by our government to put our brave men and women in harm's way. Some of us believe that it is done too lightly and too frequently. That's why I'm not going to demonize the guy that moves to Canada any more than I demonize your husband. Because all this talk of freedom that was black and white in 1776, is a little gray nowadays.

 

Ummm - did you read the post by WendyK? According to her all in the military are brainwashed murderers. That's pretty darn critical.

[mommaduck]

So getting screamed at, being told one is scum, making one sing songs about smashing cute little baby birds....those aren't brainwashing techniques? What else do you call it?

 

I wasn't cut out for that. Like plenty of other people. Why should anyone be forced into that (as would be the case in a draft)?

 

 

It's definitely brainwashing and the military is pretty open about it. The theory is to break you down and then rebuild you how they want you, mentally. That's brainwashing. The longer you're in, the more you're affected. Because the military doesn't run like the rest of society and sometimes military people think it should. (in some ways I liked living in the military, in other ways I can't stand living around ex-military back in the civilian world).

[BillieBoy]

So getting screamed at, being told one is scum, making one sing songs about smashing cute little baby birds....those aren't brainwashing techniques? What else do you call it?

 

I wasn't cut out for that. Like plenty of other people. Why should anyone be forced into that (as would be the case in a draft)?

 

Not trying to be snarky but speaking fairly plain I would answer this........ so you and I and everyone on this board can sit in the comfort of our homes discussing our political and moral views and opinons without fear of retribution to our person and our families.

 

I agree that the methodology for training is not for me either, but many say the same about my homeschooling in a classical format. :)

 

For the good of the many ....... It's a hard choice but one our great grand parents voted on.

[SheilaZ]

That the military accomplishes those feats [and even more wonderful things] is secondary to its primary purpose, and even those secondary things are often accomplished by killing people and breaking things. simplistic, yes, but essential to how the military performs its duty.

 

Then my DHmust be a secondary kind of guy. He's been in the Army for 15 years, in three different combat zones. He's killed no one nor broken anything.

He has however built a whole lot of stuff and taught a whole lot of people in 3 different countries.

 

My nephew has served in two different combat areas and has killed no one nor broken anything either. He's also built a whole lot of stuff and taught a whole lot of people.

 

My neice's DH has been to only one combat area. He didn't kill anyone either. He did want to though because they were very hard to teach.

 

There's a whole lot less "killing and breaking" than you think. The ultimate goal of the soldier is not to kill, but to defend.

[Debbie in OR]

Unfortunately, the military is being grossly mischaracterized throughout this thread. If you honestly think our men and women in uniform “kill without feeling and thought†you must never have met an American soldier. War is not pretty. I defy you to find ONE soldier on whom the act of killing another human being has not taken a physical or psychological toll.

 

It is unbelievable to me that as Americans we can extol the virtues of “freedomâ€, yet condemn the actions of our military servicemembers, without whom such freedom would be non-existent.

 

My husband’s favorite quote is by George Orwell…

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

 

 

Sleep well…my husband has got your back, regardless of whether or not you’ve got his.

 

I totally agree. My brother, who wanted to fly jets for the AF since he was 5 years old and is currently doing just that, almost didn't do it when it came time to commit (this after years of private flying lessons, Jr. ROTC in college, dreaming, etc...) because he was not sure he would actually be able to kill someone when it came right down to it. (Although he will, if he had to, to protect our freedoms.)

 

They do not make these decisions lightly and anyone who thinks they are callous and unfeeling has not been around a representative sample.

 

And please thank your dh for me tonight...we are most grateful (where's my patriotic salute smiley?).

[pqr]

Absolutely. I had considered joining when I was 17. I was looking for a way to pay for college. They had a one weekend mini boot camp to give one a small taste of what to expect. Besides the physical training and practical skills (taking a gun apart) there is a lot of psychological brainwashing involved. They berate you. They scream at you. They make you sing songs about smashing little bird's heads. They physically torture and abuse you.

 

That is what they did in one weekend. What does that do to a person over any real period of time? But, hey, you can't kill people without feeling and thought (when you don't personally believe in the cause) if you are not trained to do so.

 

Of course there is the aspect that they have to make you feel like you are doing something important. That the president and the top military officials are having you do these inhumane things because of some deeper important reason.

 

 

Part of the reason that the military trains people in this manner is simply to wean out those who do not have what it takes.

 

 

They scream at you to teach you to work under pressure. Our military does extremely well under harsh and violent conditions. How do you think they learn these skills?

 

 

As to the "physical torture," I doubt that very much.

1. Mild abuse was tolerated in the past, far less so today.

2. If you thought you were tortured then you simply do not understand the meaning of the word.

 

By the way our military does do important things, defending this nation is important.

 

I am not too sure if your post was naive or something else but do not judge our military on the basis of a weekend that you found too much to handle.

[mommaduck]

Part of the reason that the military trains people in this manner is simply to wean out those who do not have what it takes.

 

 

They scream at you to teach you to work under pressure. Our military does extremely well under harsh and violent conditions. How do you think they learn these skills?

 

 

As to the "physical torture," I doubt that very much.

1. Mild abuse was tolerated in the past, far less so today.

2. If you thought you were tortured then you simply do not understand the meaning of the word.

 

By the way our military does do important things, defending this nation is important.

 

I am not too sure if your post was naive or something else but do not judge our military on the basis of a weekend that you found too much to handle.

:iagree: It's the MILITARY. They are being trained to provide a service. It requires a certain amount of stamina and ability. Just the way it is.

[TXMomof4]

Then my DHmust be a secondary kind of guy. He's been in the Army for 15 years, in three different combat zones. He's killed no one nor broken anything.

He has however built a whole lot of stuff and taught a whole lot of people in 3 different countries.

 

My nephew has served in two different combat areas and has killed no one nor broken anything either. He's also built a whole lot of stuff and taught a whole lot of people.

 

My neice's DH has been to only one combat area. He didn't kill anyone either. He did want to though because they were very hard to teach.

 

There's a whole lot less "killing and breaking" than you think. The ultimate goal of the soldier is not to kill, but to defend.

 

 

:iagree:

[Joy at Home]

Part of the reason that the military trains people in this manner is simply to wean out those who do not have what it takes.

 

 

They scream at you to teach you to work under pressure. Our military does extremely well under harsh and violent conditions. How do you think they learn these skills?

 

 

As to the "physical torture," I doubt that very much.

1. Mild abuse was tolerated in the past, far less so today.

2. If you thought you were tortured then you simply do not understand the meaning of the word.

 

By the way our military does do important things, defending this nation is important.

 

I am not too sure if your post was naive or something else but do not judge our military on the basis of a weekend that you found too much to handle.

 

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[Deb in NZ]

You lose your American citizenship if you enlist in another country's armed forces, so he won't have to register in the US. You might need to check if he'll need a visa to visit the US once he's only a kiwi, or if there are other repercutions to renouncing citizenship. I'm sure if you call the US consulate, they can answer all your questions. They've always been very helpful when I've had a question.

 

I, too, thought that my dc would lose their dual-citizenship if they enlisted in NZ's armed forces, but what I found was that the only thing that put their dual-citizenship at risk was knowingly choosing to give up their US citizenship, becoming an officer, or becoming an MP. I, also, was under the impression for many years that I could not get NZ citizenship w/o giving up my US citizenship. The US consulate strongly discourages dual-citizenship (even through decent), but there is nothing forbidding it. I questioned a friend here who is a naval officer & a QC. He was surprised that I thought my ds couldn't enlist & I checked things out from the US side.

 

We are encouraging ds#1 to enlist in the NZ Navy, rather than the US Navy, as the NZ Navy is based more around the Pacific in peacekeeping. If ds#1 wants to make the navy a career & wants bigger ships, more opportunities, etc. he'll have the option of looking into transferring to the US Navy.

 

Blessings,

[Melissa in Australia]

I have met some of those individuals. It always gets a rise out of me when Australians behave in this manner, though the truth is that only a tiny minority do so. Of all the world's people the Australians should be the most thankful for the US and her behavior in WWII. If not they might have had to try taking their complaints to what would ultimately have been their Japanese conquerers.

 

Japanese treatment of subject people left quite a bit to be desired and Australians know this as thousands of brave and honorable Australians died alongside their American Allies during the War (on battlefields and in POW camps).

 

I agree with you. really I do. It really is mostly the people who were alive at that time that are so bitter .

Mostly they are not bitter about treatment given out by Americans, but that they took so long to get involved, and when they did, they came to a country like Australia that basically had most of it's men over seas in POW camps or fighting, and so they took advantage of a country full of lonely women.

this is way off the track of this thread though. sorry.

[Rosie_0801]

I have met some of those individuals. It always gets a rise out of me when Australians behave in this manner, though the truth is that only a tiny minority do so. .

 

Very tiny minority. I've never met anyone with anti American sentiments held for that reason.

 

Rosie

[KingM]

Very tiny minority. I've never met anyone with anti American sentiments held for that reason.

 

Rosie

 

It seems to me that the WWII generation in Europe is the least anti-American generation. Certainly, the older French I met were very pro-American.

[Rosie_0801]

I confess I don't understand why Americans would care what Australians or anyone else thinks of them. Sometimes I kind of feel as though it's expected that non-Americans show a certain amount of patriotism towards the US.

 

(If anyone wants to throw tomatoes, I can handle mouldy, but not fermented. :tongue_smilie:)

 

Rosie

[lauracolumbus]

Coming to this debate late, but...

just an FYI

 

The Japanese Americans weren't the only ones interned during WWII. Individuals of Italian and German descent (our other two major enemies) were also interned--altho on a much smaller scale. Joe DiMaggio's father was one of them (if I recall correctly) even while Joe served honorably in the war. Japan was the first country to attack us in more than 100 years, so it's hard to judge the paranoia that was rampant at that time. Hindsight is always 20-20.

 

To me it's like comparing the beheadings by the Taliban to the waterboarding by Americans. We will never be 100% wonderfully humane, but as for the way we treat our enemies, there can be no comparison. In fact both the laws of war (ours are pretty amazing) and the simple decency of American soldiers often result in our soldiers being killed because of their decency.

 

Coming from a veteran, the wife of a veteran, the daughter of a veteran, and the sister of a veteran.

 

Laura

[TXMomof4]

I confess I don't understand why Americans would care what Australians or anyone else thinks of them. Sometimes I kind of feel as though it's expected that non-Americans show a certain amount of patriotism towards the US.

 

(If anyone wants to throw tomatoes, I can handle mouldy, but not fermented. :tongue_smilie:)

 

Rosie

 

 

I often wonder why we care so much as well. I don't have to like the way they do things in XYZ country, so why should I care if they like what I'm doing. When any politician starts their "repairing American relationships" nonsense I want to scream.

 

Of course, you don't see many anti-Australia protests in the USA. Or anti-British, French, or any other country... why do they feel the need to be so vehemently anti-American?

[Rosie_0801]

Of course, you don't see many anti-Australia protests in the USA. Or anti-British, French, or any other country... why do they feel the need to be so vehemently anti-American?

 

Y'know. I think I'll answer this in a pm :)

 

Rosie

[Heather in Neverland]

Unfortunately, the military is being grossly mischaracterized throughout this thread. If you honestly think our men and women in uniform “kill without feeling and thought†you must never have met an American soldier. War is not pretty. I defy you to find ONE soldier on whom the act of killing another human being has not taken a physical or psychological toll.

 

It is unbelievable to me that as Americans we can extol the virtues of “freedomâ€, yet condemn the actions of our military servicemembers, without whom such freedom would be non-existent.

 

My husband’s favorite quote is by George Orwell…

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

 

 

Sleep well…my husband has got your back, regardless of whether or not you’ve got his.

 

Amen and thank you!

[lionfamily1999]

Was your grandmother sent to war relocation camp? If she was, I am very impressed that she believes it was an admirable response on our government's part. If she wasn't a member of the populace interred for no other reason than race, does she honestly believe that decision by our government was truly admirable? It was racist because the situation implied that no other American of any other race could ever be a traitor. Or is she just generalizing and responding to the war as a whole, and not separate acts during the war? Because I can appreciate the admirable acts during that war and any war that our country participates in, but I just plain cannot admire that particular decision. Is my opinion really considered unpatriotic? I'm absolutely floored.

You could say that. She was relocated a number of times to various different camps as a "guest" of the Japanese government. If it wasn't for the actions the US took, my grandmother and her parents would not have escaped with their lives. She was a person interred because of her race/nationality. And yes, as a girl that spent her adolescent years starving, being beaten and abused, having surgery on a dirty table with a dirty knife to save her life, why? So, she could continue to be a "guest" of the Japanese government. Yes, those things have led her, and in turn us, to believe the US government acted admirably. The fact that her father, while working in the mines, again, as a "guest" of the Japanese government, watched the heroic actions of Americans resulting in the painful deaths of Japanese military men, or I suppose I should say "hosts," decided then and there that if he could he would join in their ranks, is another one to consider.

 

An English woman displaced, a Dutch man displaced, and a mixed up young girl displaced, welcomed by the US government to begin anew here, after having been cast off by the Dutch government as a loss, are hard people to argue with when it comes to the actions of this government during WWII.

You've explained what we shouldn't have done in response to the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, but you haven't said what you think we should have done to avert war. And you haven't said how we could have avoided war if the Japanese had continued to press forward and had landed troops on American soil.

 

This is where pacifism breaks down, in my opinion. You can be against war, but your enemy may not be. Surely defense of one's land and people is better than capitulation, enslavement and death. All you have to do is look at how the Germans, the Japanese, and the Soviets behaved in territories they conquered to see what our fate would have been if we had simply failed to defend ourselves.

:grouphug:

Not to mention the people that our government rescued that were not US citizens, although many of the chose to be as a result of that.

[Peek a Boo]

Then my DHmust be a secondary kind of guy. He's been in the Army for 15 years, in three different combat zones. He's killed no one nor broken anything.

He has however built a whole lot of stuff and taught a whole lot of people in 3 different countries.

 

My nephew has served in two different combat areas and has killed no one nor broken anything either. He's also built a whole lot of stuff and taught a whole lot of people.

 

My neice's DH has been to only one combat area. He didn't kill anyone either. He did want to though because they were very hard to teach.

 

There's a whole lot less "killing and breaking" than you think. The ultimate goal of the soldier is not to kill, but to defend.

 

 

Oh, i *know* there's a LOT of people who are doing many great things w/o killing and breaking things, but as has been pointed out --if the military is not ready to kill and break and do violence, then it will not work. Period. No matter how helpful they are in other non-violent ways.

 

For us, there are plenty of non-military outlets for internationally helping, teaching, and building. :)

 

eta: how exactly will they defend if they aren't expected to do violence??