Selective Service Registration Mandatory????

[Jenny in Atl]

If i had to choose between a forced signup to possibly be called and a forced healthcare payment scenario, i'll take the signup ;)

 

But then wouldn't you be forced into government healthcare anyway, just via the military?

[BillieBoy]

Well, getting back to SSR, for those who have sons with various health conditions, they still are required to register, correct?

Yes, only upon the enactment of a draft will a person's ability be assessed.

 

This is a quote from sss.gov

Almost all male U.S. citizens, and male aliens living in the U.S., who are 18 through 25, are required to register with Selective Service. It's important to know that even though he is registered, a man will not automatically be inducted into the military. In a crisis requiring a draft, men would be called in sequence determined by random lottery number and year of birth. Then, they would be examined for mental, physical and moral fitness by the military before being deferred or exempted from military service or inducted into the Armed Forces.

 

I believe only men that are infirmed in an institution, are currently in the military or in a military university do not have to register.

[BillieBoy]

But then wouldn't you be forced into government healthcare anyway, just via the military?

 

No, just registering for selective services does not give you military heath care.

[Peek a Boo]

But then wouldn't you be forced into government healthcare anyway, just via the military?

 

via just signing up w/ SSR? no.

 

That wouldn't happen till after one was conscripted during a draft.

 

The chances of being drafted are slimmer than the chances of opting out of the forced system in Canada.

[mommaduck]

Well, getting back to SSR, for those who have sons with various health conditions, they still are required to register, correct?

 

Yes. If they are ever called up, all you have to do is provide paperwork on their disability or what not and they will be exempt, depending upon the health condition.

[stripe]

Yes, only upon the enactment of a draft will a person's ability be assessed.

 

Thank you -- that's what I thought.

[Jenny in Atl]

No, just registering for selective services does not give you military heath care.

 

I guess I was thinking more along the lines of a draft... :tongue_smilie:

[lionfamily1999]

But we weren't discussing other governments. The specific questions were about how the United States responded to Pearl Harbor and gave the impression that our entire response was admirable.

If you were to speak to my grandmother, she would tell you the US went above and beyond admirable, far into herioc, with their responses during WWII.

[Renee in NC]

Those that don't pay into SS, don't the same way as non-Anabaptists that don't...they manage to own their own business or hire out as contracted labor ;) My husband has done this before (but he's not a pacifist; he's a vet).

 

You aren't advocating for tax evasion, right?

 

Even if you have your own business or contract out you are required to claim the income. When you do, you pay Self Employment Tax of 15.3%, which is Social Security and Medicare.

 

If you don't pay it you could go to jail.

[Guest Cindie2dds]

Yes, I'm surprised you don't remember hearing about it in high school. There were posters all over the school, announcements, etc., about this every spring. Even now there are many PSA's on the radio every spring.

 

I am an only child and went to an all-girls' high school, so it was never brought up in my household. I didn't even know about it until my husband told me about it after we watched a movie together a few years ago. ;)

 

But, I agree, it's his duty.

[mommaduck]

You aren't advocating for tax evasion, right?

 

Even if you have your own business or contract out you are required to claim the income. When you do, you pay Self Employment Tax of 15.3%, which is Social Security and Medicare.

 

If you don't pay it you could go to jail.

 

No, I'm not. There are forms you can sign that exempt you from paying into SS (of course, this means you cannot collect either). It prevents the employer from having to pay into anything also (a great way for an employer to get around paying workers' compensation :glare: but if you have a good employer, the difference is in your pay ;) ). You still pay a self employment tax (but for some reason no one thinks this is SS or Medicare? Ugh, the contradictions of the Anabaptists astounds me once again).

 

 

My husband used to work for some Anabaptists and we have some family that converted. They were all hired as either "contracted labour" or "limited liability partners" (LLC) depending upon the work and the boss. Typically we broke even on taxes due to deductions and only paid local. At one place papers were signed to exempt from paying into SS (I don't understand the legal details, but it was legal).

Edited August 9, 2009 by mommaduck

[Night Elf]

I was simply asking for clarification. No need to get snippy. :chillpill:

 

Are you serious Kinsa? Do you really not see your question to me as snippy? I simply responded in kind. And telling me to chill is also quite rude. Frankly, the very freedom the military fights for gives me the freedom to have my own opinions.

 

US citizens can respect and appreciate what our military is doing without having a blind devotion to everything it does. To disagree is not unpatriotic. The only countries that have demanded a complete devotion to the government or military were places like Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union. America, on the other hand, has always been a place that respects and tolerates differences of opinions. America was founded on dissent. And just to clarify, NO I am not saying that the US is like communist countries. I am explaining why I think the military expecting admiration can lead down a very frightening path.

[Night Elf]

If you were to speak to my grandmother, she would tell you the US went above and beyond admirable, far into herioc, with their responses during WWII.

 

Was your grandmother sent to war relocation camp? If she was, I am very impressed that she believes it was an admirable response on our government's part. If she wasn't a member of the populace interred for no other reason than race, does she honestly believe that decision by our government was truly admirable? It was racist because the situation implied that no other American of any other race could ever be a traitor. Or is she just generalizing and responding to the war as a whole, and not separate acts during the war? Because I can appreciate the admirable acts during that war and any war that our country participates in, but I just plain cannot admire that particular decision. Is my opinion really considered unpatriotic? I'm absolutely floored.

[Night Elf]

I was simply asking for clarification. No need to get snippy. :chillpill:

 

Not that I should need to clarify, but I support the men and women who volunteer for our military. When I was picking up a friend at the Atlanta airport, I was one of only 3 people applauding the soldiers who were coming home besides the 3 people dressed in red, white and blue at a booth specifically staged to applaud and assist incoming soldiers. I did it because I felt like doing it, not because I felt forced in doing it or risk being labeled unpatriotic.

[Night Elf]

This is becoming quite wearisome.

 

Yes it is. I sincerely apologize if any of my words or ideas offended you. It was not my intention. I was defending myself and my opinions. You were doing the same.

[KingM]

Was your grandmother sent to war relocation camp? If she was, I am very impressed that she believes it was an admirable response on our government's part.

 

You've explained what we shouldn't have done in response to the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, but you haven't said what you think we should have done to avert war. And you haven't said how we could have avoided war if the Japanese had continued to press forward and had landed troops on American soil.

 

This is where pacifism breaks down, in my opinion. You can be against war, but your enemy may not be. Surely defense of one's land and people is better than capitulation, enslavement and death. All you have to do is look at how the Germans, the Japanese, and the Soviets behaved in territories they conquered to see what our fate would have been if we had simply failed to defend ourselves.

[Night Elf]

You've explained...

 

Yep, you're right. Consider my hand slapped.

[Peek a Boo]

I guess I was thinking more along the lines of a draft... :tongue_smilie:

 

and if they institute a DRAFT then I'd be likely to choose being forced to pay into healthcare vs being forced to serve in the military. ;)

[Peek a Boo]

This is where pacifism breaks down, in my opinion. You can be against war, but your enemy may not be. Surely defense of one's land and people is better than capitulation, enslavement and death.

 

well, no, not surely.

 

Pacifism is not about "how can we win and still get our way" -- pacifism is about "my way is not worth killing another person, period. even if it means other people die, or we are mercilessly tortured, it will not be by my hand."

 

That does not mean pacifists don't *act* to save lives, it simply means they will not KILL. Some pacifists choose to use non-lethal force against another [injure/hurt], but draw the line at shooting someone in the head or chest. They will gladly risk their life to save you, but they will not Kill to save you.

 

So yes, pacifism "breaks down" for you because it does not accomplish the same idea of winning as you want to see. You don't have to agree w/ pacifism, but you might want to clarify what it is that "breaks down" for the sake of discussion. ;)

[theresatwist]

Anyone besides me feel like we already have a backdoor draft with soldiers forced to do tour after tour in Iraq and Afganistan? Of course, this is a bit of a catch 22 because we don't have enough volunteer soldiers to get the job done otherwise. Just an observation.

[fivetails]

With regards to the whole draft thing - I've never understood why anyone would *want* people in the military who didn't join up willingly.

 

I mean, think about it. If you're in the midst of a war zone, who do you want with you - the relatively calm guy who chose to be there and is willing to do whatever is necessary to get the job done, or the terrified live wire who is only there because he was forced by some law? :001_huh:

[Haiku]

One of those times when, weirdly, I find myself in agreement with you.

 

Laura

 

OMG! Me too!

 

I think I've descended into some strange, parallel universe!

 

Tara

[Rosie_0801]

I assume the conciencious objectors join the Land Army or the Medical Corp? There is plenty of work to be done during war time outside of the armed forces.

 

Rosie

[Peek a Boo]

Anyone besides me feel like we already have a backdoor draft with soldiers forced to do tour after tour in Iraq and Afganistan? Of course, this is a bit of a catch 22 because we don't have enough volunteer soldiers to get the job done otherwise. Just an observation.

 

Nope. Those soldiers signed up willingly. My brother is itching to go back as a Marine Corps officer after 2 tours there as a Navy corpsman.

 

and people are still voluntarily joining.

[Peek a Boo]

I assume the conciencious objectors join the Land Army or the Medical Corp? There is plenty of work to be done during war time outside of the armed forces.

 

 

that depends on what The gvt allows and what COs will concede. Some COs don't mind serving the military in non-combatant roles. Others see any involvement w/ the military as [basically] driving the get away car, so serving the military at all would be impossible. The US gvt doesn't have a very good history of working w/ COs. :glare:

 

I do agree that there is plenty of work to be done outside the armed forces.

[Melissa in Australia]

If you were to speak to my grandmother, she would tell you the US went above and beyond admirable, far into herioc, with their responses during WWII.

I am assuming your grandmother was American. there is much American hatred in the rest of the world, including Australia, because of the way America Acted in WWII.

( I am referring to people who were alive during WWII.) but the hatred still lingers on a little.

[theresatwist]

Nope. Those soldiers signed up willingly. My brother is itching to go back as a Marine Corps officer after 2 tours there as a Navy corpsman.

 

and people are still voluntarily joining.

 

Isn't that kind of like if I signed a contract to work 45 hours a week at a job and my employer threatens to fire me unless I work 75, even though I only signed up for 45? Your brother sounds like a wonderful person, but many people don't want to do numerous tours and we see the pernicious effects on their mental health after they (belatedly) return home.

[kalanamak]

His duty.

 

Register like all the millions of other American boys.

 

I trotted down to the PO and registered when I came of age, too. There was a spot for male and female, and I checked female. I got a call a couple months later from a young and tentative male who asked me if I knew I didn't HAVE to sign up, and I said yes, but that sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. We went around a few times, and I finally asked if I'd broken a law and he said no, and we agreed it was time to give up and both go back to our business. I never heard from the govmint again.

[Peek a Boo]

Isn't that kind of like if I signed a contract to work 45 hours a week at a job and my employer threatens to fire me unless I work 75, even though I only signed up for 45? Your brother sounds like a wonderful person, but many people don't want to do numerous tours and we see the pernicious effects on their mental health after they (belatedly) return home.

 

Is that what you think the military offers people who sign up?????

 

really???

 

The military is NOT an "X-hours a week" job, and they make that crystal clear.

 

If people aren't fit to deploy the military won't deploy them. If they seek to hide their inability to deploy they are letting down their fellow soldiers.

[Audrey]

Is that what you think the military offers people who sign up?????

 

really???

 

The military is NOT an "X-hours a week" job, and they make that crystal clear.

 

If people aren't fit to deploy the military won't deploy them. If they seek to hide their inability to deploy they are letting down their fellow soldiers.

 

 

Not x hours a week, but hitches are usually 4 years. There is a specific year term attached to them. Of course, the way they get away with nabbing them for longer is the small print. So, yes... it's not like they don't know what they signed up for (if they read it), but it isn't exactly kosher, either, IMO.

[Deb in NZ]

My ds#1 is only 15yo, but it never occurred to me that my ds may need to register. At this time ds#1 is planning on enlisting in the NZ Navy. Would he still need to register in the US? The standard enlistment in NZ is 8 years, so ds would be over 25yo when he's finished his first enlistment. None of my dc have ever been US residents. Dd was born in the States & both boys hold their US citizenship by decent (as I am an American.)

[chiguirre]

My ds#1 is only 15yo, but it never occurred to me that my ds may need to register. At this time ds#1 is planning on enlisting in the NZ Navy. Would he still need to register in the US? The standard enlistment in NZ is 8 years, so ds would be over 25yo when he's finished his first enlistment. None of my dc have ever been US residents. Dd was born in the States & both boys hold their US citizenship by decent (as I am an American.)

 

You lose your American citizenship if you enlist in another country's armed forces, so he won't have to register in the US. You might need to check if he'll need a visa to visit the US once he's only a kiwi, or if there are other repercutions to renouncing citizenship. I'm sure if you call the US consulate, they can answer all your questions. They've always been very helpful when I've had a question.

[SheilaZ]

I cannot believe that this conversation is taking place. In the face of all the horrors that occurred in Europe, we have people demonizing the United States' role in WWII.

Normally, I never question my husband's and nephews' decisions to stand and protect the citizens in this country.

This thread has me wondering why the heck they bother.

 

Unreal.

[mommaduck]

Isn't that kind of like if I signed a contract to work 45 hours a week at a job and my employer threatens to fire me unless I work 75, even though I only signed up for 45? Your brother sounds like a wonderful person, but many people don't want to do numerous tours and we see the pernicious effects on their mental health after they (belatedly) return home.

 

Nope, because when you sign with the military, they OWN you for every 4yrs you sign with them (longer depending on rank and if you're an officer or enlistee). They can use you as a medical guinea pig, they can send you to war for however long they want/need you, they can stick you on an isolated base separating you from your spouse and kids....they own you, period. Think of it more along the lines of indentured servitude. For whatever reason, you signed the contract, you now work for them.

 

Oh, and like treaties with Native American tribes...the Uncle Sam can break his end of the contract at anytime, but you cannot.

[Haiku]

If people aren't fit to deploy the military won't deploy them. If they seek to hide their inability to deploy they are letting down their fellow soldiers.

 

I could be wrong, but it seems to me like you are implying that people who suffer mental after-effects of war are unfit soldiers. That the fault is theirs for not being able to somehow hack the horrors of war? Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

Tara

[mommaduck]

I could be wrong, but it seems to me like you are implying that people who suffer mental after-effects of war are unfit soldiers. That the fault is theirs for not being able to somehow hack the horrors of war? Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

Tara

That is so NOT what she said. If you are suffering a disability (when you sign up or are drafted), then your disability can eventually come into play and cost the lives of others. It's something that shouldn't be hidden just to get in.

[Haiku]

The only reference to health that I saw in the statement she was quoting was about people who are suffering mental after-effects of repeated deployment. I didn't see anything else about any other health issues, which is what made me question it.

 

Tara

[fivetails]

With regards to the whole draft thing - I've never understood why anyone would *want* people in the military who didn't join up willingly.

 

I mean, think about it. If you're in the midst of a war zone, who do you want with you - the relatively calm guy who chose to be there and is willing to do whatever is necessary to get the job done, or the terrified live wire who is only there because he was forced by some law? :001_huh:

 

Throwing my question out again..

 

. . . and about the 'hiding a disability' issue...

 

That is so NOT what she said. If you are suffering a disability (when you sign up or are drafted), then your disability can eventually come into play and cost the lives of others. It's something that shouldn't be hidden just to get in.

 

... when you have people going 'round calling those who choose not to enlist "cowards" and "trash" and such, this is exactly what can happen. People who should not be there end up hiding their problems so that they can avoid being branded in such a cruel way.

[Peek a Boo]

I could be wrong, but it seems to me like you are implying that people who suffer mental after-effects of war are unfit soldiers. That the fault is theirs for not being able to somehow hack the horrors of war? Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

Not necessarily.

But it's not the fault of the military either. It's a known side effect that people willingly risk when they sign up.

 

There ARE unfit soldiers. That's a simple fact of life --not every person who signs up and serves can be an excellent soldier mentally and physically.

 

and fivetails had an excellent point too: using those terms about those who can't or won't sign up and serve puts our troops in danger by using negative peer pressure and bullying tactics to bring in people who don't need to be there in the first place.

 

Not x hours a week, but hitches are usually 4 years. There is a specific year term attached to them. Of course, the way they get away with nabbing them for longer is the small print. So, yes... it's not like they don't know what they signed up for (if they read it), but it isn't exactly kosher, either, IMO.

 

The military is not about "kosher" --it's about killing people and breaking things as effectively as possible. And if the people who signed up voluntarily didn't read the contracts or pay attention when those concepts are being taught, then it is NOT the fault of the military akin to some backdoor draft policy.

[Peek a Boo]

I don't think anyone is "demonizing" America. As I said, war degrades every country. And no, I won't stand up and rah rah about WAR at all. Face the facts, every country has done some dam* despicable things during war time. It's not unpatriotic to point them out. If it is unpatriotic, to you, then my response is the same as yours. Unreal.

 

It's kinda how i viewed this past election: the lesser of two evils is still.......evil.

 

as long as i have a choice on where to live, i'll take the lesser. But if i have a chance to change something, I'll take it. And if the "lesser" part ever changes, I'll leave.

[Peek a Boo]

The only reference to health that I saw in the statement she was quoting was about people who are suffering mental after-effects of repeated deployment. I didn't see anything else about any other health issues, which is what made me question it.

 

Tara

 

yes, that's what I was responding to, but it's a pretty broad argument that has numerous applications. gotta think outside the post ;)

[Linda1951]

about that matter. Neither is DH.

[TXMomof4]

Is that what you think the military offers people who sign up?????

 

really???

 

The military is NOT an "X-hours a week" job, and they make that crystal clear.

 

If people aren't fit to deploy the military won't deploy them. If they seek to hide their inability to deploy they are letting down their fellow soldiers.

 

I'm not sure, but I took her original post to be about the stop loss program. Where my contract is up in May, but congress has decided we need the troops and is not releasing anyone - period. I don't think there's a stop-loss going on right now. But when there is, that means someone signed a contract to agree to work for 3 years and at 2 years 11 months the boss says to bad, I need you longer.

 

That's a little irksome.

[Peek a Boo]

I'm not sure, but I took her original post to be about the stop loss program. Where my contract is up in May, but congress has decided we need the troops and is not releasing anyone - period. I don't think there's a stop-loss going on right now. But when there is, that means someone signed a contract to agree to work for 3 years and at 2 years 11 months the boss says to bad, I need you longer.

 

That's a little irksome.

Q:

is that exactly what the contract says? or is it a matter of fine print [part of the contract that one signs] kicking in?

[TXMomof4]

 

 

 

The military is not about "kosher" --it's about killing people and breaking things as effectively as possible. And if the people who signed up voluntarily didn't read the contracts or pay attention when those concepts are being taught, then it is NOT the fault of the military akin to some backdoor draft policy.

 

 

It's also about building and teaching in sitautions that aren't *safe*. It's about defending and helping people who don't have the ability to do it themselves. The military isn't nearly as one dimensional as is portrayed.

[Peek a Boo]

It's also about building and teaching in sitautions that aren't *safe*. It's about defending and helping people who don't have the ability to do it themselves. The military isn't nearly as one dimensional as is portrayed.

 

That the military accomplishes those feats [and even more wonderful things] is secondary to its primary purpose, and even those secondary things are often accomplished by killing people and breaking things. simplistic, yes, but essential to how the military performs its duty.

[theresatwist]

I'm not sure, but I took her original post to be about the stop loss program. Where my contract is up in May, but congress has decided we need the troops and is not releasing anyone - period. I don't think there's a stop-loss going on right now. But when there is, that means someone signed a contract to agree to work for 3 years and at 2 years 11 months the boss says to bad, I need you longer.

 

That's a little irksome.

 

Yes, I was talking about stop loss.

[Peek a Boo]

Yes, I was talking about stop loss.

 

again: is that in the contract?

[serious question -- i haven't read the contract. wonder if it's online somewhere.....]

[pqr]

I am assuming your grandmother was American. there is much American hatred in the rest of the world, including Australia, because of the way America Acted in WWII.

( I am referring to people who were alive during WWII.) but the hatred still lingers on a little.

 

 

I have met some of those individuals. It always gets a rise out of me when Australians behave in this manner, though the truth is that only a tiny minority do so. Of all the world's people the Australians should be the most thankful for the US and her behavior in WWII. If not they might have had to try taking their complaints to what would ultimately have been their Japanese conquerers.

 

Japanese treatment of subject people left quite a bit to be desired and Australians know this as thousands of brave and honorable Australians died alongside their American Allies during the War (on battlefields and in POW camps).

[Audrey]

 

 

The military is not about "kosher" --it's about killing people and breaking things as effectively as possible. And if the people who signed up voluntarily didn't read the contracts or pay attention when those concepts are being taught, then it is NOT the fault of the military akin to some backdoor draft policy.

 

 

You're absolutely right -- the killing and breaking thing. I certainly wasn't trying to champion the military in that post -- just pointing out that although the big print might say 4 years, the small print says otherwise. Certainly, if you don't read ALL the print, it's your own fault if you don't like the consequences. Kind of like when you buy a car from a slickster -- beware the fine print! ;)