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The Input/Output question


nitascool
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I know that this has been covered in the past... but I can't seem to recall the consensus.

 

I know that many place their child's grade level (or more to the point buy books at X grade level) at their output level, but how do you know what level they are outputting?

 

My ds7, second grader, can print better then I do. He hasn't come to a grammatical concept that he didn't already know. he finishes a grammar, history, or science lesson in 10 minutes... and can tell you what he learned. But can not do so if left unattended. (He just has Zero when it comes to Executive Functioning ability.)

 

What level is he working at when he can read and comprehend a 7th grade book... give a 1 page report, without grammatical errors, aside from forgetting the occasional capital letter, and answer 20 or so questions?

 

What grade level is he if he can read everything in the 2nd grade level of WTM and asks for the unabridged versions instead? From what I've read most parents are reading much of the materials to their 2nd grader. Or am I reading that wrong? On top of this he is reading all of Amberside Online Year 2 materials on his own.

 

We are about to buy next years material and I can't decide how to go about buying for this coming year. Do I get more difficult materials... skip stuff, or get two years worth work? He's already doing two challenging curricula partially above grade level. I intend to work on getting ds to be more independent next year and so that too may play into what level of materials to get. I have my list of what I want to buy, the question is only what level to get in each area. Most of our library history and science books are coming from the Jr. High section right now.

 

Also I have another ds6, who would be in Kindergarten this year. He can tell me every thing he hears and everything he reads, which is at a 3rd grade level, but writes on a preschool level. Most of his books are coming from the Upper elementary section of the library.

 

Any incite would be much appreciated.

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Hmmm...we actually have the opposite here. Huck understands nearly everything he reads, understands 6th grade grammar, 4th grade spelling. Closest I can tell he's reading around high school level. BUT.....he hates writing although he's writing at grade level. I've never held him back because he was unable to express on paper what he knows in his head. I take dictation a lot. We do a lot of oral discussions, drawing pictures, etc.

For your ds, I think it's normal to need to be watched to keep on task. Heck, mine strays even when I am there! LOL But if his output is high, how does he feel about it? Would he like more challenging material or is he happy where he is? It's such a hard decision to make between what's encouraging him and what's too much.

I just keep moving up to the next grade level as he completes the previous one, accelerating as needed.

This got a little rambling and I'm not sure if it's what you're looking for.

Just my 2 pennies worth.

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I've pretty much given up trying to figure out dd's grade level. I usually call her a 3rd grader which is her PS age. She is much higher on input than she is on output. Your son is obviously doing well on output, but I couldn't tell you what grade that is.

 

I have tried to use curricula that are not grade specific and can be used over a few years. Then we just go at our own pace whether it is slower or faster than the norm. I generally find it easier to "dumb down" a program than to try to make it challenging enough. I think we have all experienced the need to throw out books that are too simple.

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I don't pay attention much to grade levels at all except to clarify what materials I like when speaking to other people :)

 

Ds10 has refused to read anything abridged since he first looked the word up in the dictionary at age 5. At the time he was actually a bit angry at dh for buying him an abridged copy of 20,000 Leagues Under The Sea because he felt cheated out of the real story.

 

I have not ever, nor will I ever be one of the moms that reads everything to her kids. The occasional fun family read-aloud is great. For school work the kids read to themselves and always have.

 

I do let ds6 narrate some things to me which I write down, but only because he is still working on mastering the physical skill of writing. He can compose an entire page worth of text in his head, but does not have the physical ability to write it all down himself. I suspect that it is similar with your 6yo that you say writes at a preschool level, but understands much higher. With young accelrated kids the input level does not always match up with the output level when we expect physical coordination to be equal with mental ability. When ds10 was younger I would let him record answers to essay questions or anything requiring writing onto a cassette. Ds10 did not like me writing down anything for him. For shorter written work for ds6 I have started typing it using a copywork font (it has the lines, etc) and printing it out in very light grey for ds6 to trace over. The words are all his, he just needs help making them appear on paper.

 

If I had to choose a grade level I would use the intellectual output level, but not let physical writing ability have any sway. In other words, if say a 6yo could verbally answer a list of comprehension questions on a 3rd grade book, I would work at that 3rd grade level with age appropriate help for the physical writing.

 

In terms of purchasing curriculum, I get each subject individually as needed. With ds10 we normally go through two levels of math, but some years have been 3. For reading/writing intense subjects we will do one level than take a break and let ds study more on his own. I have found if I give him some digesting time it ends up saving me money and frustration because rarely does he move smoothly on to the next expected level, but he usually makes a leap in ability and knowledge and needs to go forth more than one level. I have become better at predicting where he will be, but I know better than to buy in advance any longer. This is the first year I have purchased any materials for ds6, but I am following the same idea.

 

For me WTM and AO are like romanticized versions of homeschooling... children happily digesting predetermind amounts of knowledgs on a schedule that is simple but well-rounded. My reality with two gifted kids is that if you give them a book list it will be read, digested, and understood with mastery in less time than it took me to figure out what books should be on the list. They have no interest in having the work doled out to them in little chunks. That is why we use the "Menu Method" discussed in another thread. They can learn as fast as they want without putting too much stress on me. WTM and AO have both been great resources for me as sources for book lists and chronology, but not at the expected grade level or schedules.

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Hmm, I never buy books based on my dc's output level. Well, at least not anything except handwriting. Both of your children sound like they are doing great. My 8 yo also cannot do anything if left unattended.

 

Do you have a good library? What subjects are you looking for? It doesn't really work to skip stuff in science or history, but you can buy more challenging material. Do you have to purchase everything now for next year?

 

I'm afraid I'm not much help,

Jean

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I do have to purchase everything now. We will be doing the 3rd year of the history cycle for my 7yo and the second half of year 1 for my 6yo. While I know that my 6yo can understand year 2 work he's not yet ready for the content emotionally. So we've been taking our time and reading every book in the Juvenal library on each people group.

 

This year we started with SOTW 2 and 2nd grade list in the 1999 edition of WTM for science and history. He finished all the suggested reading in WTM for 2nd grade and the suggestions in SOTW 2 Activity Guide, at least all those that I was able to locate, before Christmas. He is currently reading books from the 6th grade list.

 

Your comments have helped me relax a little about my younger ds to know that some bright kids are slower to produce and yet still bright. :D

 

I think I will search the library and see what I can find in way of measuring grade levels with output.

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I thought the concessus was that one should buy the books at the input level and then modify the expected output to match what your child is capable of?

 

You might want to look at:

Prentice Hall Science Explorer series (think I got the name right)

Singapore primary math

History of US by Hakim (but watch the content if your child is sensitive)

Early Times history (again, watch the content, but mine loved these)

Pharoahs of Ancient Egypt

and tons of unabridged literature and science and history books from the library, the only way to keep up without going broke LOL

 

These all have middle school reading levels but nice meaty content. When my youngest was that age, I found it hard to find things with a low enough reading level and a high enough content level without going into all the nitty gritty detail of say a high school biology book, which he would have found tedious.

 

HTH

-Nan

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I thought the concessus was that one should buy the books at the input level and then modify the expected output to match what your child is capable of?

 

This is what I do too... I find it easier to use the higher level materials and then just deal with tweaking the output myself rather than trying to aim for the middle.

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