Dyslexia and Spalding

[kclopez]

Has anyone used Spalding? I had used Sound Beginnings (a Catholic take on Spalding) at beginning of last year before I found out, today, that he is dyslexic. I changed to Saxon phonics mid year and he seemed to "get it". Now, the evaluator is recommending Spalding. I don't know if I'll go back to Sound Beginnings (which is supposed to be Spalding with Catholic dictation) or try Spalding so we don't "feel" like we are going backwards. How teacher friendly is it?? SB had the lessons laid out. I just felt he didn't have anything to "tag" the sounds to in his head.

I'm not sure what to do but want some feedback from anyone who has used Spalding home school kit.

Karen

[Renee in NC]

I used Spell to Write and Read and it moved too fast for my dyslexic ds. He needs to learn one rule well before moving onto the next. All About Spelling fits that very well. We will go back to SWR after AAS.

[Ellie]

Has anyone used Spalding? I had used Sound Beginnings (a Catholic take on Spalding) at beginning of last year before I found out, today, that he is dyslexic. I changed to Saxon phonics mid year and he seemed to "get it". Now, the evaluator is recommending Spalding. I don't know if I'll go back to Sound Beginnings (which is supposed to be Spalding with Catholic dictation) or try Spalding so we don't "feel" like we are going backwards. How teacher friendly is it?? SB had the lessons laid out. I just felt he didn't have anything to "tag" the sounds to in his head.

I'm not sure what to do but want some feedback from anyone who has used Spalding home school kit.

Karen

Spalding is my favorite reading/spelling method. :-)

 

"Teacher friendly"? Well, I don't know about that. It was written for classroom teachers, who think differently than we hsers do, lol. Everything you need to know is in the manual (Writing Road to Reading), with the caveat that you MUST study the manual. You canNOT pick it up today and start teaching tomorrow. However, the results are so amazing that it's worth the effort to study and teach it.

 

There are a number of methods which are very similar to Spalding, and many people have good results with them, but Spalding just can't be beat. Not that I'm the least bit opinionated or anything.:D

 

How was it determined that your dc is dyslexic?

[kclopez]

He completed testing with an educational diagnostician that we hired. We just had an EEG done and she feels that his dyslexia and dysgraphia are developmental and result from Benign Focal Epilepsy seizures that he has. These seizures are outgrown in adolescense. He is also in the high average-bright on IQtesting so she feels we can use his strengths to help with these deficits. Anyway, feeling a bit overwhelmed. Hard to believe we have to go back to the very beginning of phonics. I'll do what he needs. How do you manage these special needs and not have your other kids fall through the cracks? Just rambling....

I think I'm going to use Spalding. She also recommended All About Spelling.

Thanks for your help!

[siloam]

Has anyone used Spalding? I had used Sound Beginnings (a Catholic take on Spalding) at beginning of last year before I found out, today, that he is dyslexic. I changed to Saxon phonics mid year and he seemed to "get it". Now, the evaluator is recommending Spalding. I don't know if I'll go back to Sound Beginnings (which is supposed to be Spalding with Catholic dictation) or try Spalding so we don't "feel" like we are going backwards. How teacher friendly is it?? SB had the lessons laid out. I just felt he didn't have anything to "tag" the sounds to in his head.

I'm not sure what to do but want some feedback from anyone who has used Spalding home school kit.

Karen

 

Karen,

 

There are three ways in which Spaulding is different from O/G recommended methods, and O/G methods are the number one recommended methods for dyslexic students.

 

First is the pace. Like the other said Spaulding covers all the sounds up front, and will cover several rules in a list. That can be a bit much for some children and isn't for others. My 2nd dd worked on the phonograms for a year before staring the spelling, and did fine. My 3rd dd tried to do all the ponograms with, but it overwhelmed her, so I backed off to just the first 26. Then I tried to start the spelling, but it uses the other phonograms, so again I had to back off. I moved her to AAS because it is incremental. The way it introduces one sound/rule at a time worked much better for her.

 

If you have used Spaulding before I would bet you already have a good idea if your child can handle it.

 

The second issue is units. When normal people read they don't sound out every word. They begin to recognize words or part of words. Dyslexics can have a hard time getting to this spot, sometimes it needs to be explicitly taught. O/G programs will teach word units like-ild and -ont. The argument on the Spaulding side is that you are making the child memorize more, so if it can be sounded out don't teach it. The argument on the O/G side is helping the child to see units helps them both in spelling and reading. They read more fluently because they see the unit -ild and can instantly recall its sound instead of needing to sound out three letters /i/ /l/ /d/ and figure out which sound the i is making. With the O/G approach you have more work up front, but it should help the child to read faster and spell better, though the amount of information they need to learn might frustrate some kids.

 

The last way in which they differ is in formally teaching syllable rules, which O/G does while Spaulding doesn't. Let me clarify, Spaulding does have the child break down all words into its syllable parts. It just doesn't teach the rules so that a child can use them to divide a word they don't know how to pronounce. I believe the argument here is that if you don't know how to pronounce the word then there are so many exceptions to the rules that it is hard to know if you have the right one anyway. O/G programs formally teach the syllable rules, and practices them using nonsense words. Oh there is a 4th difference, LOL! O/G programs use nonsense words to make sure a child has learned a rule, so they can't just rely on what they already know about the word, Spaulding doesn't use nonsense words that I know of (there is a lot of info. there and I miss things).

 

I have heard of lots of people who have decided Saxon isn't a good fit for their dyslexic students. The last one I read said there wasn't any review of the rules once they were taught. I don't know if the version you are using is the same, but if it is then I would either add the review or find a program that has it already.

 

All About Spelling is a good O/G based program, but like Spaulding it doesn't have the units. Programs that I know of that are full O/G programs are Barton Reading, Wilson Reading, Preventing Academic Failure. I know there are others as well.

 

I know you didn't ask for all the information on O/G, but I think you should have the information to ponder before you make a decision on which direction to take. I would also recommend the yahoo group Heat of Reading, which is people from all different backgrounds who deal with reading issues. Some are hsers, some are tutors, some are certified and many are not. It is just a good place to ask questions.

 

Oh and in the interest of full disclosure I haven't used Spaulding directly, but SWR, which is based on Spaulding like Beginnings.

 

Heather

 

[kclopez]

Wow! Thank you Heather. I heard a little about O/G programs. Hmmm.. lots to think about. I have looked at All About Spelling. Is it a complete program or would it be used to work with something like Spaulding?

K

[siloam]

Wow! Thank you Heather. I heard a little about O/G programs. Hmmm.. lots to think about. I have looked at All About Spelling. Is it a complete program or would it be used to work with something like Spaulding?

K

 

Karen,

 

We are having a discussion on this right now on the Heart of Reading group. AAS is a good program, very easy to use. For my kiddo's who are fluently reading I am going to continue to use it, then probably do SWR with them after that because the words in AAS tend to be on the easy side.

 

AAS is missing the unit chunks that O/G programs usually have and while it can be used to teach how to read, it really isn't a full reading program. By that I mean they don't hold your hand with reading instructions written into the program. You would have to modify what is there to use it for reading. For example you can have the child read the spelling word cards as part of their review, and you can have them read the dictation work, but you won't be prompted in the program to do it. The gals on Heart of Reading agree that a program that integrates writing, reading and spelling is the strongest. AAS has two out of the three. Not bad. There are actually a lot of people with dyslexic students using AAS with success.

 

Both AAS and Spaulding are both spelling focused, so it would be redundant to do both at the same time. Spaulding has more coordinating reading material than AAS does. They have their own set of readers, and the MCall-Crabs reading/comprehension guides that you could use. In that way Spaulding is more of a complete program than AAS. Even the new reader that AAS published doesn't have the child reading daily (though it is really nicely done).

 

I did teach my 2nd dd, dyslexic to read with Spaulding, ETC and a few other things throw in. She is going into 4th grade and reads above grade level, spells on a late 4th grade level and her fluency is about a year behind. Overall not too bad. I am still working on remediation with Great Leaps reading fluency program, which does have the units that both Spaulding and AAS doesn't have. Hopefully by recognizing units and targeting fluency I can get her up to speed there too, so maybe in the end I just put it off? At least there are programs available for this. :D

 

I have a friend who is using Preventing Academic Failure (PAF), and she was explaining to me that the difference between it and AAS that PAF is wrapped around the reader. The child learns the sounds needed, how to write them out, so by the time they read them their are no surprises, no sight words (even irregular words are covered before needed to read them). It also works on spelling and writing at the same time, so that each reinforces the other.

 

My point? I think it is probably best to use the Full O/G program if you can afford it. Between doing Spaulding and AAS that is a hard one. I adore AAS, but for your purposes (reading vs. spelling) I would learn towards Spaulding. I hadn't seen the IG before, and the samples there look pretty good (much more user friendly than the SWR I use). The time commitment is a little daunting, but as with anything I am sure you could stop mid lesson and come back to it the next day. You just aren't going to get results as quickly as someone who does the program as scripted.

 

If you really wanted to do AAS you would probably try to find a good reading program to go with it, but I am not super familiar with stand alone reading programs.

 

Heather

[Ellie]

There are three ways in which Spaulding is different from O/G recommended methods, and O/G methods are the number one recommended methods for dyslexic students.

Just to point out that it's "Spalding," not "Spaulding." :-)

Oh and in the interest of full disclosure I haven't used Spaulding directly, but SWR, which is based on Spaulding like Beginnings.

That might very well have made a difference in your experience. Spalding is Spalding; SWR is...not. :-)

[siloam]

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Just to point out that it's "Spalding," not "Spaulding." :-)

That might very well have made a difference in your experience. Spalding is Spalding; SWR is...not. :-)

 

Sorry about the spelling! :blushing:

 

I am shocked at the amount of people who come to SWR saying WRTR is too hard to implement after seeing those nifty guides. They must be just using the book to think that SWR is easier (and yes I know you would disagree :D ). Those guides look very nice and easy to use.

 

But in the case where my dd was overwhelmed by covering so many phonograms upfront that wouldn't have changed with Spalding, right? It does cover all 70 (ish) up front, and continues to work with them all at once. That aspect of the two programs is the same as I understand it, and that is where my 2nd dd did fine, but my 3rd dd did not. My 3rd dd really needed the incremental step by step one thing at a time approach of an traditional O/G program.

 

Heather

[Ellie]

Sorry about the spelling! :blushing:

 

I am shocked at the amount of people who come to SWR saying WRTR is too hard to implement after seeing those nifty guides. They must be just using the book to think that SWR is easier (and yes I know you would disagree :D ). Those guides look very nice and easy to use.

 

But in the case where my dd was overwhelmed by covering so many phonograms upfront that wouldn't have changed with Spalding, right? It does cover all 70 (ish) up front, and continues to work with them all at once. That aspect of the two programs is the same as I understand it, and that is where my 2nd dd did fine, but my 3rd dd did not. My 3rd dd really needed the incremental step by step one thing at a time approach of an traditional O/G program.

 

Heather

I've been using WRTR for almost 25 years, off and on, and have never found it that difficult. I did have the advantage of having a couple of very experienced people (one trained by Mrs. Spalding) to help me out some, but really, I love WRTR. Its approach and layout are very logical, if not what people think it "should" be. The teacher guides are great, but they aren't necessary, especially if someone is not also teaching grammar and composition via Spalding.

 

With little dc, the first 45 are taught, followed by beginning the Extended Ayres List, then the rest are taught when the dc reach a specific level in the EAL. Spalding is infinitely flexible; teachers are expected to move at the pace of the children, and to remediate as much as is necessary. Spalding has an impressive track record in teaching children with learning difficulties.

[siloam]

I've been using WRTR for almost 25 years, off and on, and have never found it that difficult. I did have the advantage of having a couple of very experienced people (one trained by Mrs. Spalding) to help me out some, but really, I love WRTR. Its approach and layout are very logical, if not what people think it "should" be. The teacher guides are great, but they aren't necessary, especially if someone is not also teaching grammar and composition via Spalding.

 

With little dc, the first 45 are taught, followed by beginning the Extended Ayres List, then the rest are taught when the dc reach a specific level in the EAL. Spalding is infinitely flexible; teachers are expected to move at the pace of the children, and to remediate as much as is necessary. Spalding has an impressive track record in teaching children with learning difficulties.

 

Ohhh, modifying it. :D If I had more energy/time I might.

 

I agree that it is an excellent program. In my book it hands down beats 99% of what is out there, with complete O/G programs being the only thing I would put above it.

 

Heather

 

[FO4UR]

Ellie - I would LOVE a side-by-side comparison of SWR and Spalding sometime. I've got both in my cabinet, and I am always :bigear: to your posts on the topic trying to glean some insight! :001_smile:

 

"With little dc, the first 45 are taught, followed by beginning the Extended Ayres List, then the rest are taught when the dc reach a specific level in the EAL. Spalding is infinitely flexible; teachers are expected to move at the pace of the children, and to remediate as much as is necessary. Spalding has an impressive track record in teaching children with learning difficulties."

 

Can you guide me to some page numbers in WRTR that flesh this process out. When do I introduce the rest of the phonograms? How do I know when my child needs remediating? and how do I know when to move forward?

 

....and when can you come this week? I bake cookies and you give me an irl demo of Spalding in action!:D:lol:

[Shay]

I've been following this thread with interest and just have some questions/comments. I'm always fearful my tone will be misinterpreted in cyberspace, so I'll preface by saying that I'm just seriously wanting to learn more, not doubting anyone, etc.

 

Most of us have read that phrase in TWTM..."reading is easy, reading is easy" and some of us believed that wholeheartedly only to find that, for one or several of our children, reading was NOT easy.

 

In the forward of WRTR (XV), it says, " a major shock for new Spalding teachers is that reading is never taught. It just begins. After hours of phonogram learning, sequential word analysis, and graphic marking, children can read. They simply pick up a book and start reading."

 

Gosh, that sounds so much like the "reading is easy" statement.

Has anyone on this board ever had that happen with a special needs or dyslexic child?

 

On pg. 174 WRTR says, "Children with dyslexia always have difficulty with learning sound-symbol relationships, single-word decoding, and spelling."

 

I have to wonder, if children with dyslexia have this difficulty, how do you adapt WRTR for dyslexia? It seems that the regular 4 phonograms (and their sounds) per day would be a huge "front load" memory , especially if the above statement is true.

 

I remember reading someone here used WRTR with their child and the child started pulling hisor her hair out, thinking she was stupid.

 

The method isn't what I'm doubting here, not at all, but rather how do you adapt it to go more slowly? It would be helpful to see more in the text than "others may require considerably more help." I would have to have some handholding on this "condiderably more help." Do you just simply slow the pace, or what? I tutor children (and my son) with the I See Sam readers, but am interested in the Spalding method. The OP has already used a WRTR based product, so I just wonder if it is the best to try again at this point??

 

Just wondering and always thinking :001_unsure:

 

Shay

[siloam]

I've been following this thread with interest and just have some questions/comments. I'm always fearful my tone will be misinterpreted in cyberspace, so I'll preface by saying that I'm just seriously wanting to learn more, not doubting anyone, etc.

 

Most of us have read that phrase in TWTM..."reading is easy, reading is easy" and some of us believed that wholeheartedly only to find that, for one or several of our children, reading was NOT easy.

 

In the forward of WRTR (XV), it says, " a major shock for new Spalding teachers is that reading is never taught. It just begins. After hours of phonogram learning, sequential word analysis, and graphic marking, children can read. They simply pick up a book and start reading."

 

Gosh, that sounds so much like the "reading is easy" statement.

Has anyone on this board ever had that happen with a special needs or dyslexic child?

 

On pg. 174 WRTR says, "Children with dyslexia always have difficulty with learning sound-symbol relationships, single-word decoding, and spelling."

 

I have to wonder, if children with dyslexia have this difficulty, how do you adapt WRTR for dyslexia? It seems that the regular 4 phonograms (and their sounds) per day would be a huge "front load" memory , especially if the above statement is true.

 

I remember reading someone here used WRTR with their child and the child started pulling hisor her hair out, thinking she was stupid.

 

The method isn't what I'm doubting here, not at all, but rather how do you adapt it to go more slowly? It would be helpful to see more in the text than "others may require considerably more help." I would have to have some handholding on this "condiderably more help." Do you just simply slow the pace, or what? I tutor children (and my son) with the I See Sam readers, but am interested in the Spalding method. The OP has already used a WRTR based product, so I just wonder if it is the best to try again at this point??

 

Just wondering and always thinking :001_unsure:

 

Shay

 

 

Shay,

 

In my experience even O/G programs don't introduce one sound at a time (or I See Sam either). Basically O/G programs refer you to another program if the child can't hear separate sound in a word, of if the child doesn't already know most their consonant sounds. My point is that this area is a weakness in all of the above programs, IMO.

 

With SWR, which is a program similar to WRTR as the person who wrote the program worked with Romalda Spalding for years and in fact the first version was created to work with WRTR and to this day still has information how to adapt it for WRTR use, one of the first steps is for the child to learn all the phonograms. You can modify the pace to whatever works for your child, though which like WRTR leaves a lot of, "Gee what do I do?" space. :D SWR does have a set of games you can buy to help a bit. I don't know if you can limit how many phonograms are used in the games.

 

I personally use the Get Ready, Set, Go for the Code books (also called Pre-ETC) to introduce letter sounds. It works with one sound for about a week, though it includes review of sounds already covered. From there I went to covering the ponograms via sand letter cards. That way we are only covering the first 26 phonograms and of those they are familiar with most the consonants from doing the Pre-ETC books, so they are just learning the vowels and some second sound. After they have those well learned I begin to cover the rest of the phonograms.

 

With my 2nd dd it took her a year of covering the phonograms before I started to use SWR as a spelling program, though she could already read by then, her reading and blending just improved. With my 3rd dd (as I posted earlier) I didn't want to take a year to learn the rest of the phonograms, so I went to a more standard O/G program that focuses on one concept at a time. It only expected her to know the consonant sounds, and then covered the vowel sounds one at a time and introduces the other phonograms one at a time.

 

My experience is it just takes time. I started working with my ds, when he was 5, by tracing the sand letter cards and doing the Pre-ETC books. He still can't hear the separate sounds in words (a requirement for SWR, AAS and I expect WRTR too), so we are doing the Pre-ETC books again, and after taking a year off we will go back to doing the sand letter cards again as well as continue to do LiPS for speech therapy that also focuses on letter sounds. The summary: he has been working on phonics in some form for 1.5 years and still can't recall all the sounds of the first 26 phonograms consistently, so this is a long road. You have to just keep going....

 

Heather

 

[mo2]

I am using AAS to teach reading....and it's working! I basically just do what the AAS manual says to do, but when we come to the cards, I have her read half of them and spell half of them. We also are taking the program very slowly. I'm not sure how quickly one is typically moves through the steps, but I'm not really too concerned with speed as long as I see we are making progress. Reading and spelling are 2 sides of the same coin, and it's makes so much sense to me to teach them together.

[siloam]

I am using AAS to teach reading....and it's working! I basically just do what the AAS manual says to do, but when we come to the cards, I have her read half of them and spell half of them. We also are taking the program very slowly. I'm not sure how quickly one is typically moves through the steps, but I'm not really too concerned with speed as long as I see we are making progress. Reading and spelling are 2 sides of the same coin, and it's makes so much sense to me to teach them together.

 

I am glad to hear it!!

 

My 8yo has been on level 1 since Jan. My oldest two already finished it, so it really depends on the child.

 

Heather

 

[Laurie4b]

I've been following this thread with interest and just have some questions/comments. I'm always fearful my tone will be misinterpreted in cyberspace, so I'll preface by saying that I'm just seriously wanting to learn more, not doubting anyone, etc.

 

Most of us have read that phrase in TWTM..."reading is easy, reading is easy" and some of us believed that wholeheartedly only to find that, for one or several of our children, reading was NOT easy.

 

In the forward of WRTR (XV), it says, " a major shock for new Spalding teachers is that reading is never taught. It just begins. After hours of phonogram learning, sequential word analysis, and graphic marking, children can read. They simply pick up a book and start reading."

 

Gosh, that sounds so much like the "reading is easy" statement.

Has anyone on this board ever had that happen with a special needs or dyslexic child?

 

On pg. 174 WRTR says, "Children with dyslexia always have difficulty with learning sound-symbol relationships, single-word decoding, and spelling."

 

I have to wonder, if children with dyslexia have this difficulty, how do you adapt WRTR for dyslexia? It seems that the regular 4 phonograms (and their sounds) per day would be a huge "front load" memory , especially if the above statement is true.

 

I remember reading someone here used WRTR with their child and the child started pulling hisor her hair out, thinking she was stupid.

 

The method isn't what I'm doubting here, not at all, but rather how do you adapt it to go more slowly? It would be helpful to see more in the text than "others may require considerably more help." I would have to have some handholding on this "condiderably more help." Do you just simply slow the pace, or what? I tutor children (and my son) with the I See Sam readers, but am interested in the Spalding method. The OP has already used a WRTR based product, so I just wonder if it is the best to try again at this point??

 

Just wondering and always thinking :001_unsure:

 

Shay

 

I tutor kids with reading difficulties and am trained as an Orton Gillingham tutor using Wilson materials. I've used Merrill Linguistics, Reading Reflex, and SWR as well as Wilson. I have two kids of my own with dyslexia. SWR lacks many of the methods that work fastest with dyslexic children. It's not that it can't work, it's just that it's more likely to take longer or not work than some of the other methods. One might say that it's a very streamlined OG approach. It would not be on my list of recommendations for a child with dyslexia.

 

My recommendations would be

 

1) Reading Reflex or a Phonograhix tutor. If this method is enough for your child, you will see significant gains within about 3 months (ie child should be on grade level or close to it) . So if it doesn't work, you haven't wasted much time, and what you have done will be part of what you try next.

 

2) Wilson or Barton are both adaptable for use at home and both use a broad methodology for helping dyslexic children learn to read that is effective. It moves more slowly than Phonographix because you do more with each lesson. Your child should be on grade level or close to it in about a year.

 

Alternately, if your child can reliably decode short vowel words and is at about a 4th grade reading level overall, the REWARDS program by Sopris West can create a huge jump. One of my dyslexic children moved up 4 grade levels after working through REWARDS. The gains stuck and his reading is remediated, though you can still see vestiges of his dyslexia in his spelling. The other son needed REWARDS and REWARDS plus to see those kinds of gains.