Anyone have a child diagnosed with Bi-polar?

[Tree House Academy]

My 10 year old is seeing a therapist for behavior issues (I posted about some of them recently in another thread) and the therapist we saw today immediately told me that he needed to rule out Bi-polar disorder. He told me that he won't say anything for sure until the assessments are complete, but he suspects (based on my many descriptions) that this could be what we are dealing with.

 

When my son was 4 (and had been kicked out of umpteen daycares), we had him tested. At the time, I did my own research on bi-polar in kids and I remember them blowing off my request for them to test him for it. I think he was just too young for them to comfortably diagnose it then. They went with ADHD instead. However, ADHD has never really fit perfectly. Some things, yeah...other things, not at all.

 

So...for anyone who has a child with bi-polar disorder - care to share your experiences? ANYTHING would be helpful right about now. Thanks so much!

[specialmama]

Rebecca, I know someone... I'll pm you...

[Manamana]

I watched a Frontline special on Netflix on this topic a few months ago. It was called, "The Medicated Child". The documentary focused on several families going through the process of diagnosing and treating bi-polar in children.

 

You may or may not find this helpful but I thought it was frightening to watch how quickly some doctors diagnosed and medicated the children with heavy duty drugs that had never been proven effective on children. My heart went out to these families in this extremely difficult situation.

[KidsHappen]

I do. I have posted on this many times and I know many others have as well. Do some searches on this site for bi-polar/bipolar and you will get tons of replies. I will try to answer more thoroughly tomorrow but if I forget please remind me. Also check a couple of books out of the library. There are only a few and all of the ones I have seen are pretty good. You need to do a lot of research and be prepared to monitor and report his mood behavior and ask lots of questions. I think I remember you posting on this and I believe I answered you and suggested possible bipolar. I can't remember for sure if that was you or someone else. Anyhow, that should get you started some and I will try to post a more detailed description tomorrow. Do you have any specifc questions I could address in my answer?

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

:grouphug:

 

I second at least viewing The Medicated Child by Frontline from PBS. You can watch it online for free.

 

Also here is an article which is one of many that I have read about the conflicts of interest in pyschiatry and the drug companies and research:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/10/health/10psyche.html?pagewanted=1&sq=bipolar%20in%20children&st=cse&scp=19

 

Here is another article about possible tainted research:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/08/us/08conflict.html?partner=rssnyt

 

 

I am sure that some children may possibly benefit from medication, however, I do worry about over-diagnosis very much so. I had people that were close to me supposedly diagnosed and heavily medicated who finally got better without the medication. Don't get me wrong, I do believe that there are people who do benefit. I just think that trying other interventions without medication should always be explored.

 

Again I wish you the best.:):grouphug:

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Here is a link on the Frontline show, The Medicated Child:

 

http://video.pbs.org/video/1082075096/program/979358040

 

 

I think it is a must see IMHO.

 

 

:grouphug:

[Mandamom]

A friend of mine went through this when her ds was about 6 years old. He was first diagnosed with ADHD but they really struggled getting the meds right. Later it was realized that he might have bi-polar and have since gotten much better luck getting the meds right.

 

At the same time it was realized that mom probably has bi-polar rather than the depression. she had been on depression meds for years and they worked fairly well. She since changed her meds and feels much better. She has been involved in local government for years and is currently mayor of her small town.

 

All that to say, that for this family, bi-polar is challenging and difficult but they are a very happy and successful family. Meds make it possible to function.

 

Late for work so gotta run.

[OHGrandma]

Yes. Unless something is new in the last few years, there is no physical test to confirm bipolar. You look at behavior, take family history, & try meds. In the past, doctors were very reluctant to diagnose bipolar in anyone younger than 16-18. My daughter was diagnosed at 16, but her diagnosis has since changed.

Books & videos can bring out cases where children were medicated, and should not have been, but they can also do a huge disservice to children & parents by causing a parent to fear using meds.

Talk to your childs counselor, use a pediatric psychiatrist, read all you can about the drugs, and there are several bipolar forums available where other parents can help with current recommendations.

 

I just reread my post and I'm not sure I made it clear that I think drugs are clearly needed with the right diagnosis. They've saved the lives of many bipolar people, and the sanity of their family members.

Edited July 24, 2009 by OHGrandma
added more info

[Pamela H in Texas]

Hi Rebecca,

 

My son was given that dx and several others as a young child. Like you, we first got DESPERATE when he was age 4. He was a sweet, witty, humorous, charming little boy, but he was clearly not in control of his feelings. And of course, especially when we're talking about a 4yo, his behavior would follow his feelings. My son didn't get the dx then but I was SURE. Add to that my own bipolar dx, my father's bp dx, and the severe alcoholism on my hubby's side of the family....At age 6, my son was dx'd with bipolar (and several other things). At that time, he was seeing a psychiatrist as well as a therapist. He also, sadly, had to be hospitalized (we tried school due to family circumstances and that put him over the edge). He was again hospitalized at 8. BTW, if you notice a pattern here (even number years and btw, 2 was pretty darn rough), this is about the time we did also.

 

Anyway, we tried medication but could not find a proper combination/balance. That had been my own experience with medication also. A couple years later, we found out what caused my severe swings and that has since been confirmed. We never figured Ty's out (or maybe he has primary bp? but he doesn't fit the dx now which suggests that the patterns have some merit we just haven't figured out). Thankfully, I found a doc that actually agrees with medicating as needed rather than constantly (which doesn't make a lot of sense if you can't find a combination that actually works WELL for you anyway). That isn't best for everyone, but in my case and my son's, it has worked out well. Between the 2 of us, we have used medication 6 times to ward off extreme symptoms, to function, to live (literally). We feel yuck otherwise, but we have to do something during those times. Otherwise, we use behavioral stuff. In his case it was mostly about learning better discipline and passing on some skills and tools to him. Consistency was KEY. I did really well with that with him when he was little but I can see myself slipping at times and it most certainly is directly related. I use similar skills/tools myself. I also have a psychologist to help me get over humps, but after dealing with some abuse/addiction issues I don't need on an ongoing basis. Again, I am not saying that this is what y'all should do. There are many people with bp who have NO business getting off meds EVER (or at least for EXTREMELY long periods of time), but even people on meds should have the support of the behavioral therapy. Just like with ADHD, there should be a multi-prong approach.

 

I wrote a speech for a college course about childhood bp. If you would like to see a copy, you're welcome to it. I practiced that thing like crazy so as not to cry at certain parts. The situation for us was just so serious. My son's LIFE was in danger during those years. Thankfully, that hasn't been a concern in several years now (I mentioned two hospitalizations but there was a 3rd later we were really close to considering).

 

Anyway, I hope you find some answers. I definitely think this doc is wise though. It was very dangerous for the other doc to blow you off and settle on adhd. Mood disorders should always be ruled out before depression or adhd is treated. Be VERY honest with this doc. Don't minimize things worried about how you look as parents. Don't exaggerate things in order to get the dx. And be careful about attributing every little thing to the dx also. The ONE time he played with the poop in his diaper......you know :) But I had a friend who wanted the dx really badly so isolated incidents became symptoms. <sigh> She got MUCH more sick (disabled sick!) with improper treatment.

 

Okay, sorry to ramble on. I'm glad y'all are seeing someone. If you ever just wanna talk, my PMs are open. If you'd like the speech, let me know :)

 

ETA: I looked above. I think it is wise for any parent to be concerned of over-dx and over-medication. BP is the disorder of the times. At the same time, there is still an underdx ALSO. That is why I think it is so important not to get hung up on a dx or to be medication grubbing. But medication is often necessary for functioning in the family, in school, etc. It would be irresponsible of a parent to not medicate in many circumstances also. The whole idea, imo, is BALANCE. Be very careful along the way and evaluate circumstances stringently and often.

Edited July 24, 2009 by 2J5M9K

[Ottakee]

Check the special needs board as well.

 

I have a 13dd with bipolar. I would suggest reading The Bipolar Child and a few other good books on bipolar in kids.

 

I would also try to keep a mood chart--recording his moods each day, if they change rapidly, are they more severe than the situation warrants, his sleep habits, diet, outbursts, depression, irritability, etc. I made up a spreadsheet with this and rated each thing from a 0-3 each day and it took only minutes a day. Over time though we saw a clear pattern.

 

It also helps when you are looking at meds. You can then see if the meds are helping, if anything is getting worse, if the meds help during certain times of the day and not others, etc.

 

I agree though with ruling out other causes. I good pdoc (psychiatrist) should also order blood work for CBC, vit. D levels, thyroid, anemia, blood sugars, etc. If any of these are off, they can cause bipolar like symptoms. If there is any question of seizures, an EEG should be done. Very often a CT or MRI is done (at least with our pdoc) which then rules out any physical brain abnormalities, etc.

 

Family history is also important. Very often bipolar is genetic. Go through a few generations and list for the doctor those that had trouble with drug/alcohol abuse, deprssion, bipolar, mental breakdowns, etc.--just relationship and what they had--no need for names.

 

That all said, YES, bipolar meds are strong and need to be prescribed and monitored by a specialist BUT IF they are needed, they can be a life saver. My dd was once thought not to be able to live at home past her toddler/preschool years. Now at 13 we hardly see the mood stuff (beyond typical 13 year old stuff). She is quite stable on her meds. No more hallucinations, no more homicidal/suicidal ideations, no more extreme irritability, etc. She is on a combination of 3 medications for the bipolar.

 

I am sure that some kids are over diagnosed and over medicated (but often by pediatricians and others not well trained in bipolar in kids) but there are also kids who are NOT diagnosed and NOT treated and really suffer.

 

Ask your doctor what training and experience they have with bipolar in kids. How recent is their training---ours attends seminars/conferences frequently.

 

Feel free to pm or email me.

 

[

[Orthodox6]

Warning: This is an impassioned post.

 

I'm joining this thread because two of my sons were MIS-diagnosed for TEN years with bipolar disorder. It is imperative to find a child/adolescent psychiatrist (not a therapist) with up-to-date knowledge of bipolar disorder and of the other conditions which can trigger a "false diagnosis." Obtain more than one diagnosis, from doctors who are not affiliated with each other.

 

My boys swallowed lithium for ten years, with only the Lord knowing what kind of health effects resulted. DH and I were very, very angry when we obtained diagnoses from a better-versed doctor.

 

Before I go further, I'll "show my colours" by emphasizing that I have absolutely NO patience with people who trash the use of psychiatric medications. These medications are legitimate health aids. The correct medication for the correct diagnosis, at the correct dose for the individual so often is the lynch pin for a life being able to turn around and improve so markedly that the person has the best chance possible for a good life. Despite this truth, there remain people who, out of fear, out of ignorance, out of whatever, take one or two hear-say bad experiences and explode them into a global attack on ALL medications. The "quacks", which include some with the M.D. label, grab all the media attention. Nutritional practices and some "supplements" can provide wonderful help, too. Just don't make the popular mistake of thinking that nutrition or supplements are a substitute for medication, where medication is needed. These are "add-ons".

 

The most common mistake is to diagnose ADHD when the condition is bipolar, or to diagnose bipolar when the condition is ADHD. (The first doctor decided that one of my sons had both.) Discuss this common diagnosing error with the psychiatrist. (Both, in fact, because now I know not to rely on the first diagnosis.)

 

Try to obtain doctor recommendations, both positive and negative, from friends and co-workers. Read about the doctors, if you can find any information (Internet or elsewhere).

 

Trust your gut instincts. If a psychiatrist glibly and immediately, without reflection, shoeboxes your child into a specific diagnosis, that may be a warning flag to move on and consult someone else. (not always, but it is something to watch for)

 

Ask questions. Ask more questions. Read information about proposed diagnoses and proposed treatments. Then ask more questions. YOU are the ONLY advocate for your child. There are many excellent psychiatrists in the field, some of whom genuinely care about each child in his or her practice. Nonetheless, you are the parent and, apart from the child, the person with everything at stake. If a psychiatrist will not discuss things with you, will not listen to your questions and answer them respectfully, MOVE ON. There is not such thing as a "stupid question." Read, read, and read more.

 

When you research a doctor, take the time to find out at which psychiatric in-patient hospital or clinic he or she has "practicing privileges." Then research those hospitals and clinics. If ever you end up having to admit a child for observation or for a stay, you will be prepared. We learned the hard way, when a son suddenly landed in "the facility from H*ll. We scrambled to yank him out of there and to have him transferred to a, mercifully, good hospital.

 

Thanks be that you are investigating the situation, rather than assuming that your child "will grow out of it."

[Lolly]

Another misdiagnosis here. It seems to be the current fad diagnosis. The problem here is that the medications are scary. Very scary. The doctors when you are questioning the side effects will just tell you that it takes time to work the dosages out. Or, we will just add in X to counter that. I just hope that we did no long term damage allowing the experimentation. Fortunately, I figured out early on that the doctor was wrong and insisted she be weaned from the drugs. It has also been my experience that doctors who "specialize" (in quotes because there is no such specialty) in bipolar are often the ones who over diagnose. My dc was diagnosed by a leader in the field who was highly regarded in the area. I now know of some horror stories from his practice, but there is no way a new client would ever be able to come aware of these.

Edited July 24, 2009 by Lolly

[KidsHappen]

Ok, I have a little time right now so I am going to post. I have told this story so many times and yet I can seem to find a copy of it any where. I guess I need to save it in Word.

 

Anyhow, to start with I am bi-polar, as is one of my brothers and was my mother. So we do have family history. I have six dc and one of them is bi-polar with a second that is possible but he has never been to a psychiatrist so don't really know about him.

 

My 12 yr. old is the one with bi-polar. She has been different and difficult since birth. She came out screaming and pretty much screamed non stop for six months and then frequently until she was properly medicated at age 9. She threw uncontrollable, raging tantrums. As young as three she was able to articulate that she couldn't control herself and that she needed me to hold her tightly to help her calm down. She also has sensory issues so sometimes something as simple as sock bumps or her hair being out of place when send her into a melt down that would last for hours. The entire family tip-towed around her trying not to do anything to set her off. At about age 6 I realized that she need some kind of dx and possibly medication. My hubby was adamently opposed and thought that she would outgrow it. Being bi-polar I knew that was unlikely and that it would only get worse with age. This is one case where I felt more impassioned about something and overrode my hubby and insisted that we take her in.

 

The after testing and accessing and talking to the family and child herself the counselor agreed that something was wrong. Her first guess was anxiety and possibly sensory issue as well as definite OCD. She would pick at her skin until there were huge gaping holes and I am surprised no one ever question the possibility of cigarette burns. The first med we tried was Zoloft which helped the OCD but made the moods and raging worse. That's when we started suspecting bi-polar but the counselor was very hesitant to dx bipolar in such a young child as it can have life long consequences. So we decide to try the meds without the dx and see how we did. She added seroquel because I took that an it worked for me. My dd's behavior improved drastically but we still had some problems. Finally we added in Trileptal as I was also taking that and she come into balance pretty quickly. That's when we changed the dx to bipolar. She knows that she had problems and that her meds help and she quiet willingly takes them. She does not know her specific dx right now but I will tell her when she is older.

 

She has been on her current meds and dosages for about 3 years now and she is perfectly normal. No one would guess that she is bi-polar. She has really blossomed, she is happy, well adjusted and functions well in society and does well in school. Even my hubby finally agreed that I was right and that her meds have made a huge difference in all of our lives. If she misses a dose of meds, the whole family knows by mid afternoon and we are all asking if she took her meds that morning.

 

From my understanding raging is one of the leading presenting symptoms in childhood bi-polar and it narrows the dx to just a few possible dxs. The other leading possibility is ODD which is pretty rare and usually they can tell the difference based on the child has the ability and desire to control their behavior. Bipolar children can sometimes control their behavior for a limited period of time but it is exhausting to do so and almost always leads to a meltdown soon there after.

 

Your first step would be a complete medical screen to make sure there are no physical causes for the problems. Thyroid is the number one thing that can cause symptoms very much like bipolar. Once you have eliminated any possible physical causes then you need to narrow the psychological possibilities and there are different criteria for each dx. Sometimes a dr will do a trial of meds without dx to see what helps and then assign a dx as happened in my dd case. It really is very complicated and you absolutely need specialized medical help to figure it out.

 

As I suggested you really need to do your research and be prepared to make sure all appropriate steps are taken and that you ask a lot of questions. This is a serious dx with life long consequences and requires very strong meds to manage so you want to make sure it is correct. And if you have any doubts don't hesitate to get a second opinion. HTH some and plus feel free to ask any specific questions and I will help if I can. You can PM me if you like. I wish you luck as you work through this as I know how difficult it can be. :grouphug:

Edited July 24, 2009 by KidsHappen

[Orthodox6]

KidsHappen, thank you for your detailed post. (Just sorry that you and dc struggle against BP.)

 

One of your helpful points is that medications often will be changed over the years. One may work for a while, then "fade." So another is tried which yields better results.

 

You also referred to something which I take for granted, but did not include in my own post: Check the close and extended family health histories.

 

When DH and I were discussing marriage, we discussed that mental health conditions ran through the males in his father's side (including his brother). So we knew that any children whom God would send, would be vulnerable to inheriting something. (What we did not know until years later, was that I, too, am a "donor" of several conditions.)

 

At any rate, the first-visit paperwork asks questions about family histories on both sides, so OP should learn what she can about this before tackling the forms.

 

K-H, I really don't understand a doctor prescribing a medication, prior to diagnosis, "just to see what happens". That could be disastrous, for many scenarios !

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Just to clarify, I was not trashing medications. Just as I have known some people whose lives were almost destroyed by pyschiatric medications, I have also known others whose lives have been saved by pyschiatric medications.

 

More importantly, I think that medicine is not a science. It is an art. For a psychiatric diagnosis, you need a doctor's opinion based on a list of symptoms. As a result there is an element of subjectivity involved since sadly there is no blood test or scan that can definitively say that a person has this or that disorder. Therefore, I believe in researching all of the facts and pros and cons to make yourself as informed as possible. I also believe in second and third opinions especially. I know for a dear family member a second opinion saved her children from brain surgery for a shunt. She was told her children needed brain shunts by a neurologist and was ready to do so. I begged her to get a second opinion since as a nurse I know that medicine is an art and even the best doctors can be wrong. Well thank God she did since 10 years later her children are fine without the shunts.

 

Lastly, I think that since many psychiatric medications can have serious side effects that all of your options should be explored such as behavioral therapy and the like unless a person is suicidal, homicidal, or has a break with reality.

[Orthodox6]

If it helps to say this, Priscilla, I was not referring to your earlier post when I wrote my initial post. I was writing from sixteen years' experience living with a family, members of which were born with multiple conditions, and from the experiences to which I/they have been subjected to IRL.

 

Of course psychiatric medications have potentially (not inevitably) serious side effects. So do the medications for heart disease, arthritis, and many other health conditions. Somehow, though, only the psychiatric medications receive the knee-jerk, exaggerated, negative reactions from many of the public. I don't know why this is.

 

At one point, an extremely scary medication was prescribed for one of my sons. DH and I spent two weeks reading about the drug, and praying for a proper decision (yea or nay to try the drug). We finally said "Yes", and were, thanks be, able to stop the drug immediately when the danger signals flashed unmistakably.

 

Over-dx, mis-dx, yes. The thread addresses this.

 

When someone "recovers" from a serious mental health condition without taking any kind of medication, frankly, my response is to doubt the original diagnosis.

 

Again, though, I was not pouncing on you !

 

 

 

 

 

Just to clarify, I was not trashing medications. Just as I have known some people whose lives were almost destroyed by pyschiatric medications, I have also known others whose lives have been saved by pyschiatric medications.

 

More importantly, I think that medicine is not a science. It is an art. For a psychiatric diagnosis, you need a doctor's opinion based on a list of symptoms. As a result there is an element of subjectivity involved since sadly there is no blood test or scan that can definitively say that a person has this or that disorder. Therefore, I believe in researching all of the facts and pros and cons to make yourself as informed as possible. I also believe in second and third opinions especially. I know for a dear family member a second opinion saved her children from brain surgery for a shunt. She was told her children needed brain shunts by a neurologist and was ready to do so. I begged her to get a second opinion since as a nurse I know that medicine is an art and even the best doctors can be wrong. Well thank God she did since 10 years later her children are fine without the shunts.

 

Lastly, I think that since many psychiatric medications can have serious side effects that all of your options should be explored such as behavioral therapy and the like unless a person is suicidal, homicidal, or has a break with reality.

[KidsHappen]

K-H, I really don't understand a doctor prescribing a medication, prior to diagnosis, "just to see what happens". That could be disastrous, for many scenarios !

 

In this case, they are treating the symptom. For example when she started the Zoloft that was to treat the OCD (picking skin) and if she no longer had any problems we could have safetly assumed that her only condition was OCD and maybe anxiety. Since she continued have problems we were able to determine that she still had something else going on so we began to treat the next major symptom, the rage. Once that was under control that gave us more information and we could work on the next thing. The problem with mental health issue is that there are no blood tests that give your definitive answers and frequently symptoms overlap more than one diagnosis so it is like a puzzle when you have to put the pieces together to get the whole picture. And it wasn't like she was shooting in the dark. She had the symptoms, the family history and a pretty strong idea of what the problem was but because it is such a serious label we wanted to eliminate any possible less dxs before assigning it. And I am pretty sure that the symptoms for ODD and bipolar are very similar and it is hard to tell them apart but the rxs are frequently the same.

 

But generally speaking yes, you are right many prescriptions can make the symptoms worse but that sometimes also points you in the right direction. Like if you have ADD a stimulant will help but if you are really bi-polar it may make things worse but that does rule out ADD as the primary cause. Anti-depressants will usually set off a manic stage in a bipolar but that usually points to bipolar as the primary cause. As a matter of fact, the exact thing is what leads to the diagnosis in many cases. This does also happen in standard medicine. For instance sometimes they can not find the cause of pain but they will treat the symptoms. I guess that is why medicine is consider both an art and a science.

Edited July 25, 2009 by KidsHappen

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

By Orthodox6 Again, though, I was not pouncing on you !

 

 

:) Thanks. I just wanted to clarify so people would not think that I was only trashing medications:tongue_smilie:

[Jenny in Atl]

Another misdiagnosis here. It seems to be the current fad diagnosis.

 

I've wondered about this... I've just finished a week at art camp, and there were at least three kids there dx as bi-polar. One was just six, a little girl, and it was match with hyper-sexuality/aggressive behavior towards other kids. All three were under the age of 9. I was floored by how many kids had this. It's just so scary.

[Tree House Academy]

Thank you all for the kind responses, stories, and pms. They are all greatly appreciated.

 

I want to share a bit more of our story and I hope that is okay.

 

My older son was different from *birth*. Literally, at 9 months old, his dad and I (being young parents and never having really been around kids) still KNEW he was different. In daycare and around other kids, he was just not normal. B is the kind of child that would get angry at his toys. When he was a baby, if the square peg didn't fit in the round hole, he would scream, cry, and throw the toy across the room. At 10, if the video game character runs out of life, he will slam his fist on the desk, rip the game out of the wall, and throw it across the room. Please don't think that, in those 9 years, I have "allowed" this behavior or thought it was okay. Normally, I calmly tell him that "if his toy is making him that mad, we need to put it away." He does, but then is angry that he had to put the toy away and will lay in his bed under the covers and cry. In about 10 minutes, though, he is up and happy and acting as if nothing ever happened. If I remind him it happened, he will acknowledge it did, but still will move on and at that point his answers to any "why" type questions become "I can't remember" or "I don't know."

 

When he was 5 and in Kindergarten, he stabbed a child in the head with a pencil. The boy was hiding under the table and the teacher called for all the kids to line up. The boy apparently wasn't moving fast enough a B got mad. He often gets mad when someone isn't following the rules and will lash out at them. Now, he does it verbally but as a 5 year old, he did it physically.

 

By the time he started Kindergarten, he had been asked to leave 3 different daycares. He had physically injured 3 children to the point where the parents refused to bring their child back unless my child was asked to leave.

 

When he was 3, I divorced his dad. This hurt him deeply as his dad makes little effort to see him. The older he gets, the more obvious this becomes to him and he struggles with a lot of emotions he won't discuss with us. This is why we started with the therapist.

 

A few more key points from our experiences.... B has never accepted love. He is not a loving child. His grandmother (ex h's mom) remarked about this when B was only about a year old. When he does try to hug people now, he does it inappropriately. For isntance, I was sitting on the potty once - he barged into the bathroom just as I was about to (ahem...TMI...but you have to get the effect here) use the toilet paper and he hugged me AT THAT MOMENT. He has also been known to hug people as they are putting food in their mouth. He is just very inappropriate with his affection. When he was a little younger, he woudl cling to his principal's leg as she walked down the hall. She would tell him, "B...this is not appropriate...stop" but he didn't. He did this with random people - basketball coaches, etc. It got to the point where we had to really spend a lot of time telling him WHY this was not okay or acceptable.

 

He has always talked 15 decibals above normal. He has no voice regulation or control. He will argue with Jesus Christ if given the chance. He always has something to say and some, very rude, way to say it.

 

About a month ago, he threatened to stab his brother with is breakfast fork. He over reacts to most minor situations and is found in a total rage over something so utterly small, it wouldn't matter to most people (in the above example, his brother brushed past him to get some water which caused B to feel "pushed" and retaliate by holding a fork in the air and threatening to stab his brother). Note here too that brother is not even 6 yet and B will be 10 in a few weeks.

 

He always has to be first in line and will shove and push and fight to get there.

 

Getting hot makes him angry.

 

He has, in the last year, uttered the words, "I will kill you" while angry at his brother (twice) and then at his cousin at the beach just last month. His cousin is 13 years old, 6 foot tall, and weighs over 200 pounds. B was ready to fist fight him. At summer camp (BIBLE CAMP of all places), B fist fought several times. Thing is..he can be that was one second and then the anger is just GONE. He doesn't understand why people are still mad 10 minutes after something happens. He is over it as quickly as it came on him. It totally baffles us all.

 

Things that the counselor heard that made him want to test for bi-polar were that B wet the bed until he was 8, was diagnosed with ADHD but is very high functioning and does not distract to the point of not being able to complete his work and do it correctly (ADHD diagnosis never really "fit" from day one), the clingyness and inappropriateness, the rages/anger, and the swings from horrible anger to "what happened" type behavior in such a short time, the comments about "I will kill you." He did assure me that he did not think B was truly contemplating such things at this time - that he had likely just found a way to express his anger that got a response...but that we had to watch it closely (and trust me, we have been!)

 

Family histoty - I dont' know of anyone in the family on either side with bi-polar, though I suffer from OCD, hypochondria, and anxiety that has been really bad for the last 6 years especially. I had a therapist do some testing on me once and suggest that I could be Bi-polar - but not enough on the test showed to make it a hands down diagnosis. I do not have hallucinations and never have. However, my mood swings are UGLY and often I have no idea why they are what they are. I do have periods where I am depressed and then periods where I am happy with everything around me. So sure, maybe it is possible. Meds like Lexapro regulate me nicely, though.

 

As for the therapist...he is the clinical coordinator and director of children and youth services and was appointed by the Governor as the Northeast Representative to the Tennessee Commission on Children and Youth. His credentials are LPC-MHSP (which I think means he is a Licensed Professional Counselor with further training in diagnosis and assessment of psychopathology). He was highly recommended by a friend who actually works with him. She is a friend from church but is also a case manager for kids in our county who have mental health issues. He is also very conservative on medication and prefers to do all he can without meds before resorting to them. Obviously, some conditions require them right off though.

 

So...this is where we are. We have an appt Aug 6 to go back for the evals. Then we should know the results the following visit. I'd say that in a month from now, we will have more answers.

[Pamela H in Texas]

Rebecca,

 

You might write this out and other things that catch your memory. Maybe do it in bullets and the docs can ask you more about it later? Of course, they are going to give you so much paperwork that you won't know if you're coming or going. And it is going to take more than one appt to come up with an appropriate dx. You may want to combine psycho-educational testing also.

 

To be honest? When I read the above, it doesn't scream bipolar to me. It most certainly does SCREAM though. I think, again, that you are very very very wise in looking for a dx and then appropriate treatment, which may well include medication.

 

How does your son feel? What does HE think? What does he think of his behavior and it's cause? Can he articulate ANYTHING about it? is there any insight he can give? I really think some of those things are what will nail down a dx.

 

A couple questions you might answer if you're writing things out for a doc:

 

How often does he have a melt-down?

How long, on average, does a melt-down last?

How long are the longer ones (like top 10%?)?

How long are the shorter ones?

What time does he get up in the morning?

What is his affect like when he wakes?

what time does he go to bed?

What time does he go to sleep?

What is his behavior like in the hour before bed?

What is his behavior like after supper in general?

Does he need a nightlight?

Does he find going to sleep easy or difficult?

Does he nap sometimes? esp after a melt-down?

Is he a video game addict?

Is his behavior worse in relation to video games?

How does he do with other teachers/adults/family members?

Where is he academically?

Can he recognize the feelings or probable feelings of other people?

Can he attend to activities (other than screens)?

How is his writing?

Did/Does he have any sensory type issues?

Did/Does he do any self regulatory behaviors (rocking, biting, headbanging, etc)?

What does he think of himself? is that consistent or does he express otherwise often?

Any nighttime issues (bedwetting, night terrors, etc)?

Is he more fearful or daring than most?

How is his diet (or preferred diet) and weight?

 

Okay, so that is to give you a start. Hope it helps.

 

ETA: I see I missed a whole paragraph of your post, one that answered a few questions. Anyway, I think it's great that you are getting help for him. I hope y'all get good answers pretty quickly and can start recovering :)

Edited July 24, 2009 by 2J5M9K

[Orthodox6]

Wow! :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

Of course I never would accuse you of "allowing" such extreme behaviour ! I admit only my puzzlement that he was not evaluated years ago, even hospitalized for observation/treatment. The daycares and schools would have requested evaluation, surely. But in your situation, perhaps there just was not money available.

 

Going only from the information that you [bravely] have shared, I don't see any way to avoid trying medication(s). (I still think a psychiatrist should be on the team, along with the counselor, because of the complexity of your situation, and because of the additional expertise possessed by a psychiatrist.) More than once, he has posed a danger to himself and to other people. Someday, an occurrence may "go too far", with terrible consequences.

 

It drains and hurts a parent to seek intervention. Many of us here (and on Special Needs sub-board) know this first-hand. I had to call 911 when ds was barely seven, and watch the police take him away to the hospital. He was attacking me and the baby, when I was alone at home with dh and older boys out of town. I had no choice. Didn't make me cry any the less to know that I did the right thing.

 

 

 

Thank you all for the kind responses, stories, and pms. They are all greatly appreciated.

 

I want to share a bit more of our story and I hope that is okay.

 

My older son was different from *birth*. Literally, at 9 months old, his dad and I (being young parents and never having really been around kids) still KNEW he was different. In daycare and around other kids, he was just not normal. B is the kind of child that would get angry at his toys. When he was a baby, if the square peg didn't fit in the round hole, he would scream, cry, and throw the toy across the room. At 10, if the video game character runs out of life, he will slam his fist on the desk, rip the game out of the wall, and throw it across the room. Please don't think that, in those 9 years, I have "allowed" this behavior or thought it was okay. Normally, I calmly tell him that "if his toy is making him that mad, we need to put it away." He does, but then is angry that he had to put the toy away and will lay in his bed under the covers and cry. In about 10 minutes, though, he is up and happy and acting as if nothing ever happened. If I remind him it happened, he will acknowledge it did, but still will move on and at that point his answers to any "why" type questions become "I can't remember" or "I don't know."

 

When he was 5 and in Kindergarten, he stabbed a child in the head with a pencil. The boy was hiding under the table and the teacher called for all the kids to line up. The boy apparently wasn't moving fast enough a B got mad. He often gets mad when someone isn't following the rules and will lash out at them. Now, he does it verbally but as a 5 year old, he did it physically.

 

By the time he started Kindergarten, he had been asked to leave 3 different daycares. He had physically injured 3 children to the point where the parents refused to bring their child back unless my child was asked to leave.

 

When he was 3, I divorced his dad. This hurt him deeply as his dad makes little effort to see him. The older he gets, the more obvious this becomes to him and he struggles with a lot of emotions he won't discuss with us. This is why we started with the therapist.

 

A few more key points from our experiences.... B has never accepted love. He is not a loving child. His grandmother (ex h's mom) remarked about this when B was only about a year old. When he does try to hug people now, he does it inappropriately. For isntance, I was sitting on the potty once - he barged into the bathroom just as I was about to (ahem...TMI...but you have to get the effect here) use the toilet paper and he hugged me AT THAT MOMENT. He has also been known to hug people as they are putting food in their mouth. He is just very inappropriate with his affection. When he was a little younger, he woudl cling to his principal's leg as she walked down the hall. She would tell him, "B...this is not appropriate...stop" but he didn't. He did this with random people - basketball coaches, etc. It got to the point where we had to really spend a lot of time telling him WHY this was not okay or acceptable.

 

He has always talked 15 decibals above normal. He has no voice regulation or control. He will argue with Jesus Christ if given the chance. He always has something to say and some, very rude, way to say it.

 

About a month ago, he threatened to stab his brother with is breakfast fork. He over reacts to most minor situations and is found in a total rage over something so utterly small, it wouldn't matter to most people (in the above example, his brother brushed past him to get some water which caused B to feel "pushed" and retaliate by holding a fork in the air and threatening to stab his brother). Note here too that brother is not even 6 yet and B will be 10 in a few weeks.

 

He always has to be first in line and will shove and push and fight to get there.

 

Getting hot makes him angry.

 

He has, in the last year, uttered the words, "I will kill you" while angry at his brother (twice) and then at his cousin at the beach just last month. His cousin is 13 years old, 6 foot tall, and weighs over 200 pounds. B was ready to fist fight him. At summer camp (BIBLE CAMP of all places), B fist fought several times. Thing is..he can be that was one second and then the anger is just GONE. He doesn't understand why people are still mad 10 minutes after something happens. He is over it as quickly as it came on him. It totally baffles us all.

 

Things that the counselor heard that made him want to test for bi-polar were that B wet the bed until he was 8, was diagnosed with ADHD but is very high functioning and does not distract to the point of not being able to complete his work and do it correctly (ADHD diagnosis never really "fit" from day one), the clingyness and inappropriateness, the rages/anger, and the swings from horrible anger to "what happened" type behavior in such a short time, the comments about "I will kill you." He did assure me that he did not think B was truly contemplating such things at this time - that he had likely just found a way to express his anger that got a response...but that we had to watch it closely (and trust me, we have been!)

 

Family histoty - I dont' know of anyone in the family on either side with bi-polar, though I suffer from OCD, hypochondria, and anxiety that has been really bad for the last 6 years especially. I had a therapist do some testing on me once and suggest that I could be Bi-polar - but not enough on the test showed to make it a hands down diagnosis. I do not have hallucinations and never have. However, my mood swings are UGLY and often I have no idea why they are what they are. I do have periods where I am depressed and then periods where I am happy with everything around me. So sure, maybe it is possible. Meds like Lexapro regulate me nicely, though.

 

As for the therapist...he is the clinical coordinator and director of children and youth services and was appointed by the Governor as the Northeast Representative to the Tennessee Commission on Children and Youth. His credentials are LPC-MHSP (which I think means he is a Licensed Professional Counselor with further training in diagnosis and assessment of psychopathology). He was highly recommended by a friend who actually works with him. She is a friend from church but is also a case manager for kids in our county who have mental health issues. He is also very conservative on medication and prefers to do all he can without meds before resorting to them. Obviously, some conditions require them right off though.

 

So...this is where we are. We have an appt Aug 6 to go back for the evals. Then we should know the results the following visit. I'd say that in a month from now, we will have more answers.

[OHGrandma]

Same as what Pamela said. I'd also be sure anyone who works with him knows this has been an issue long before his father & you divorced. Has anyone tossed around 'reactive attachment disorder'?

http://www.radkid.org/

[KidsHappen]

Rebecca,

 

 

To be honest? When I read the above, it doesn't scream bipolar to me. It most certainly does SCREAM though. I think, again, that you are very very very wise in looking for a dx and then appropriate treatment, which may well include medication.

 

I am going to agree with Pam here and say that it does not sound like bipolar to me but I am glad that they are going to rule that out. It does sound like he is going to need medication but it also sounds like you have a very competant counselor working your case and that you are in good hands. I am glad to hear that you are getting help while he is still prepuberty. I so sorry that you are going through this. I know how hard it can be. :grouphug:

[Tree House Academy]

I admit only my puzzlement that he was not evaluated years ago, even hospitalized for observation/treatment. The daycares and schools would have requested evaluation, surely. But in your situation, perhaps there just was not money available.

 

I am sorry to have not made that clear. He WAS tested. He has gone through testing twice. First time, he was 4. The testing was done over a series of several appointments and he was dignosed, at the end, with ADHD and GAD. At 6, he was re-evaluated by the school system (at the time, we were in GA) and again, the diagnosis was ADHD. Medicine was started and changed 4 times - each time, it was ineffective.

 

There was a period of time from around 2nd-3rd grade where B's behavior at school was improving. The entire time he was in ps, he was in special ed behavior classes and had an IEP. So yeah, this is NOT the first time we have sought help.

 

We had a bad experience with a counselor at the school (big long story, definitely not one I want to get into on a forum) and I stopped all school related therapy then and there. There were some leading questions asked without my consent and a whole lot of misunderstandings.

 

In the years of trying the ADHD meds and the counselor at school, *I* never saw any real improvement at home. At school, he was kept busy with work and therefore had fewer outbursts and issues. He is diligent about his school work and when something is put in front of him, he will do it and do it well (kind of not ADHD-ish, huh?)

 

Anyway - we have had struggles in the last 3 months with feelings of abandonment and then of course the anger and the things he chooses to utter...

[Tree House Academy]

It is good to hear you say that it doesn't seem like bipolar to you. I wonder, then, why this therapist seemed so bent on "ruling it out"??? For my son's sake, I would love for it not to be really anything more than some ADHD along with issues caused by the divorce. Then, it would be something we could work with without meds. His ADHD is under control in that he does not struggle to learn or function. He talks non-stop and gets mad at the drop of a hat...but we homeschool and can work with him on these things. It scares me to think he may have a chemical brain disorder that the only real answer for is meds. I have OCD and the way mine presents, I will likely spend my LIFE on and off of meds. I don't want that for my son! :(

[KidsHappen]

Here is a link on the Frontline show, The Medicated Child:

 

http://video.pbs.org/video/1082075096/program/979358040

 

 

I think it is a must see IMHO.

 

 

:grouphug:

 

Ok, I finally watched this and I really feel like I need to comment on it. If I were not where I am in the process of dealing with my dds bi-polar this show would have scared the sh*t out of me. I really don't think it is helpful to parents of children who absolutely need to be medicated and I would not recommend it. I do recommend talking to as many people as possible getting specialized competant professial psychiatric care and of course doing your own research into both dxs and rxs but if it is clear that your child needs to be medicated then it would only serve the purpose of planting fear and doubt in your mind.

 

Another thing is that it suggested that all children being diagnosised as bi-polar should have to participate in studies. I would never agree to that. I can not imagine a greater violation of mental health patient privacy than that. My dd does not even know that she has the dx of bi-polar as I don't want to burden her with that at such a young age and she does not need to know that to be treated. She is leading a perfectly normal happy childhood life and nobody needs to know that she is bi-polar. Putting her in a study for bi-polar children would clearly label her as such.

 

Please understand that I am not trying to attack you personally but I really had serious problems with that show and I felt strongly that I needed to comment on it.

[Kim in Appalachia]

:grouphug:

 

You are a good mom for being so diligent, and continuing to pursue a correct diagnose. I don't have a child like that, I do know people who are bi-polar, and I can only encourage you not to give up. Keep pressing the doctor for a correct diagnose and keep communicating with your doc about your son. Do you keep a journal of your son's behavior? If you don't, please do. It is something that you can share with a therapist who will then be able to get a better picture of what is going on.

 

Honestly, it doesn't sound like bi-polar (from your post), but closer to autistic, But I am not a doctor, and these issues hard very hard to diagnose. :grouphug: again.

[Pamela H in Texas]

Rebecca,

 

The doctor doesn't necessarily mean that he thinks it IS bipolar, but it is VERY VERY VERY responsible of him to "rule it out" before going down certain other roads (esp depression and adhd treatment). ALL doctors should be ruling out mood disorders before treating otherwise. The psych my kids and I go to did this with my daughter. Her only presenting issue is adhd. She's extremely well behaved (probably THE easiest kid on earth), but she has some hyperactivity and attention issues that makes school tougher. We neglected it a long time because she's so bright and accelerated, but the medication really helped her. Sorry I digress. Anyway, but with a family history suggestive of mood disorders (multiple family members with bipolar or alcoholism), it would have been irresponsible for him not to "rule out bipolar" before treatment.

 

The thing is, though what you are saying doesn't sound like bipolar to me (or other posters), it doesn't mean it isn't either. We can only go by what you said. A doctor will be able to see you, your child, dig in with good questioning, etc.

 

You mentioned years of medication earlier, several changes. Did any of those include an anti-psychotic? Though not a first line adhd medication, they are sometimes used. I wonder how your son responded to that, if he had been on it, especially in terms of aggression.

 

BTW, add "talks nonstop" to your list of symptoms, k?

 

Anyway, y'all will find good answers. It just takes time.

[PollyOR]

:grouphug: Rebecca :grouphug:

 

To all of those who have responded...you are an amazing group of caring people. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and personal experiences.

[Orthodox6]

I did not not take time to follow the link, but your post makes me wonder whether the featured speaker was Dr. Breggin. (If it was, then I promise to rip out my tongue, so as not to respond.)

 

Ok, I finally watched this and I really feel like I need to comment on it. If I were not where I am in the process of dealing with my dds bi-polar this show would have scared the sh*t out of me. I really don't think it is helpful to parents of children who absolutely need to be medicated and I would not recommend it. I do recommend talking to as many people as possible getting specialized competant professial psychiatric care and of course doing your own research into both dxs and rxs but if it is clear that your child needs to be medicated then it would only serve the purpose of planting fear and doubt in your mind.

 

Another thing is that it suggested that all children being diagnosised as bi-polar should have to participate in studies. I would never agree to that. I can not imagine a greater violation of mental health patient privacy than that. My dd does not even know that she has the dx of bi-polar as I don't want to burden her with that at such a young age and she does not need to know that to be treated. She is leading a perfectly normal happy childhood life and nobody needs to know that she is bi-polar. Putting her in a study for bi-polar children would clearly label her as such.

 

Please understand that I am not trying to attack you personally but I really had serious problems with that show and I felt strongly that I needed to comment on it.

[KidsHappen]

It is good to hear you say that it doesn't seem like bipolar to you. I wonder, then, why this therapist seemed so bent on "ruling it out"??? For my son's sake, I would love for it not to be really anything more than some ADHD along with issues caused by the divorce. Then, it would be something we could work with without meds. His ADHD is under control in that he does not struggle to learn or function. He talks non-stop and gets mad at the drop of a hat...but we homeschool and can work with him on these things. It scares me to think he may have a chemical brain disorder that the only real answer for is meds. I have OCD and the way mine presents, I will likely spend my LIFE on and off of meds. I don't want that for my son! :(

 

 

I don't think it is ADHD either. I am trying to tread delicately here because I am not a doctor and I don't know your son but I think that they want to rule it out because it would be the next logical thing to consider and while it can be bad it is relatively easy to treat and provided the person stays on their medication they can lead a relatively normal life. It's not fun to be on meds all the time and one of the biggest problems with bi-polar people is keeping them on their meds because once they feel normal they think that they don't need the meds anymore when the truth is the meds are why they feel normal. Ruling bi-polar out would allow them to narrow the field some and then start looking at other possibilities. I am not as familiar with other dxs so I can't really say what the next possibility might be. I would suggest that you research a little more broadly and see if any of the other dxs intuatively seem a better fit to you. It does sound like he is probably going to need medications of some kind as well as counseling and thearpy.

 

My son had a lot of problems and while we went to counselors and doctors we never medicated him and his outcome was very poor whereas my dd who we did medicate is leading a completely normal happy life. I know medication can be scary and have possible side effects but sometimes it really is neccessary and it is not all bad. I am wishing you the best of luck as you work through and I hope that you have a positive outcome. I know how hard it can be especially if you are already dealing with issues yourself. I will keep you in my prayers and be thinking of you quiet a bit and I do hope that you will keep us posted as this go along. :grouphug:

[Pamela H in Texas]

Rebecca, it is scary to go through the process and journey of this life. But you can do it. And there are many people, I'm sure you've met some, who are just plain NORMAL on medication (and/or with various treatments). Here is a website you may find helpful. I've not been here in a LONG time so I'm not "up" on how the community is now, but it was good years ago. It's at http://www.conductdisorders.com

[KidsHappen]

I did not not take time to follow the link, but your post makes me wonder whether the featured speaker was Dr. Breggin. (If it was, then I promise to rip out my tongue, so as not to respond.)

 

They did refer to him but he did not actually speak at all on this show nor is he the one that made the comments regarding children mandatorily being in studies.

[KidsHappen]

Rebecca, it is scary to go through the process and journey of this life. But you can do it. And there are many people, I'm sure you've met some, who are just plain NORMAL on medication (and/or with various treatments). Here is a website you may find helpful. I've not been here in a LONG time so I'm not "up" on how the community is now, but it was good years ago. It's at http://www.conductdisorders.com

 

 

Pam, thanks for this link. My ds was diagnosed with ADHD but I think that he really had conduct disorder and unfortunately he did not get the treatment that he needed as a child. That is one of the reasons I was so ademant about my dd getting treatment pre-puberty. I agree that it is so scary and painful to go through this with a child and well let's face it, just plain hard.

[Orthodox6]

He obviously would not support any child in any kind of a study ! I guess I was thinking that, when you said the program disturbed you because medications have a legitimate role to play, I jump-guessed that it was Dr. Breggin speaking, as he is a most nutso-extremist. (OK, that's as mild as I can keep the remark.)

 

They did refer to him but he did not actually speak at all on this show nor is he the one that made the comments regarding children mandatorily being in studies.

[KidsHappen]

He obviously would not support any child in any kind of a study ! I guess I was thinking that, when you said the program disturbed you because medications have a legitimate role to play, I jump-guessed that it was Dr. Breggin speaking, as he is a most nutso-extremist. (OK, that's as mild as I can keep the remark.)

 

Is this the person you are speaking of?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Breggin

 

Yeah, needless to say, I do not agree with his POV.

[Orthodox6]

Yes.

 

 

Is this the person you are speaking of?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Breggin

 

Yeah, needless to say, I do not agree with his POV.

[Tree House Academy]

Autism and aspergers have been ruled out previously with the other testing done. They did not test for bi-polar or ODD at the time because they refused to diagnose a child that young with those things. I am pretty certain we are not dealing with Autism or Aspergers also because he just doesn't fit the symptoms otherwise. I really focused on his "bad" moments in these posts, and I probably should have at least mentioned his good sides. When B is alone with us, he can be wonderful. He can be loving (appropriately), will work willingly at whatever we ask him to do, and has matured and grown nicely. He just has so much anger inside him. He commonly tells me that his brother gets more fair treatment than he does, etc. One night, he told me that his brother was lucky because his REAL dad tucks him in at night. My dh has been with B since B was only 3 years old...but B knows the difference. He knows that dh is not his real dad and his real dad does not make a good effort to see him (30 days a year...maybe). B then blamed the divorce and him not having his dad here to kiss him goodnight on ME. So I know there are hurts there...

[tex-mex]

I agree though with ruling out other causes. I good pdoc (psychiatrist) should also order blood work for CBC, vit. D levels, thyroid, anemia, blood sugars, etc. If any of these are off, they can cause bipolar like symptoms. If there is any question of seizures, an EEG should be done. Very often a CT or MRI is done (at least with our pdoc) which then rules out any physical brain abnormalities, etc.

 

Family history is also important. Very often bipolar is genetic. Go through a few generations and list for the doctor those that had trouble with drug/alcohol abuse, deprssion, bipolar, mental breakdowns, etc.--just relationship and what they had--no need for names.

[

 

Very GOOD point on ruling out via a complete medical checkup involving full bloodwork/labs. In my family's situation, we had 3 generations of mental illness ranging from clinical depression, anxiety/OCD, and bipolar -- only to find out it was a SYMPTOM of a rare genetic disorder that plays havoc in the brain. (i.e. Mystery Diagnosis story...)

 

http://www.nucdf.org/ucd.htm

 

Our family's disorder is passed from the females (X-linked) and sons have the full blown disorder usually ending in infant mortality. Females are carriers but show outlying symptoms that many psychologists write off as bi-polar, anxiety, etc. I am NOT SUGGESTING your son has what we have... but please take him to a doctor and make sure his bloodwork gets a green light for liver panel, elevated levels of glutamine, glucose, etc.

[Tree House Academy]

Very GOOD point on ruling out via a complete medical checkup involving full bloodwork/labs. In my family's situation, we had 3 generations of mental illness ranging from clinical depression, anxiety/OCD, and bipolar -- only to find out it was a SYMPTOM of a rare genetic disorder that plays havoc in the brain. (i.e. Mystery Diagnosis story...)

 

http://www.nucdf.org/ucd.htm

 

Our family's disorder is passed from the females (X-linked) and sons have the full blown disorder usually ending in infant mortality. Females are carriers but show outlying symptoms that many psychologists write off as bi-polar, anxiety, etc. I am NOT SUGGESTING your son has what we have... but please take him to a doctor and make sure his bloodwork gets a green light for liver panel, elevated levels of glutamine, glucose, etc.

 

I am a real supporter of well-checks and both of my kids have yearly ones that include blood work, eye/hearing exams, urine testing, etc. I wonder if this is enough? The doctor and i talk about behavior as well. Should I be more specific and ask for certain tests? Or would a normal yearly well check be encompassing of this?

[tex-mex]

I am a real supporter of well-checks and both of my kids have yearly ones that include blood work, eye/hearing exams, urine testing, etc. I wonder if this is enough? The doctor and i talk about behavior as well. Should I be more specific and ask for certain tests? Or would a normal yearly well check be encompassing of this?

 

Unfortunately, medical testing will not prove anything definitive -- unless you have evidence of family history, hospitalization, ER visits, past medical testing, and so on. You need to do the legwork and find a specialist in the disease/disorder and give them the packet of files you've collected to allow him to investigate your case and determine a diagnosis. You really have to be your child's health advocate and kick down the doors for answers.

 

Well checks are great evidence to any specialist that something was amiss. Use school records or IEP files will collobrate your suspicions that there is a problem in the eyes of school officials. He or she will start at square one and do their own testing -- it will take time. We also paid a Pediatric Clinical Neuropsychologist to verify our concerns after our child was in a coma -- the "labels" proved there were issues. But the underlying rare genetic disorder finally was proved to be the culprit causing all of the other issues.

 

BTW, to those who say meds are dangerous... they have proven to be life saving for my child and my family. There is NO way I would have treated my child with holistic methods and see him die. My sister who is bi-polar and a carrier of UCD, also says the meds are life changing. She previously was institutionalized prior to being diagnosed... as a child, she was in special ed and labeled, "emotionally disturbed" in the 70's. Now I regret we didn't know of the rare disorder and treatment sooner. Her brain has paid the price for lack of treatment.

[KidsHappen]

Autism and aspergers have been ruled out previously with the other testing done. They did not test for bi-polar or ODD at the time because they refused to diagnose a child that young with those things. I am pretty certain we are not dealing with Autism or Aspergers also because he just doesn't fit the symptoms otherwise. I really focused on his "bad" moments in these posts, and I probably should have at least mentioned his good sides. When B is alone with us, he can be wonderful. He can be loving (appropriately), will work willingly at whatever we ask him to do, and has matured and grown nicely. He just has so much anger inside him. He commonly tells me that his brother gets more fair treatment than he does, etc. One night, he told me that his brother was lucky because his REAL dad tucks him in at night. My dh has been with B since B was only 3 years old...but B knows the difference. He knows that dh is not his real dad and his real dad does not make a good effort to see him (30 days a year...maybe). B then blamed the divorce and him not having his dad here to kiss him goodnight on ME. So I know there are hurts there...

 

I know how hard this can be as well. I left my previous dh when my son was 7 and he was very angry about this for a very long time. My previous dh was abusive but I certainly did not want to tell my children that. My ds did specifically ask me about this about 3 years ago and he did so in such a way as to allow me to just yes, something like that and he did not ask for any more details and said that he did understand. My dd still does not know and she has a reasonable relationship with her father so I can't imagine ever telling her nor do I really think she needs to know. However, my son definitely had problems long before his dad and I seperated so I don't think that was the cause of his problems but the anger over that issue certainly didn't help matters much.

[Tree House Academy]

Unfortunately, medical testing will not prove anything definitive -- unless you have evidence of family history, hospitalization, ER visits, past medical testing, and so on. You need to do the legwork and find a specialist in the disease/disorder and give them the packet of files you've collected to allow him to investigate your case and determine a diagnosis. You really have to be your child's health advocate and kick down the doors for answers.

 

Well checks are great evidence to any specialist that something was amiss. Use school records or IEP files will collobrate your suspicions that there is a problem in the eyes of school officials. He or she will start at square one and do their own testing -- it will take time. We also paid a Pediatric Clinical Neuropsychologist to verify our concerns after our child was in a coma -- the "labels" proved there were issues. But the underlying rare genetic disorder finally was proved to be the culprit causing all of the other issues.

 

BTW, to those who say meds are dangerous... they have proven to be life saving for my child and my family. There is NO way I would have treated my child with holistic methods and see him die. My sister who is bi-polar and a carrier of UCD, also says the meds are life changing. She previously was institutionalized prior to being diagnosed... as a child, she was in special ed and labeled, "emotionally disturbed" in the 70's. Now I regret we didn't know of the rare disorder and treatment sooner. Her brain has paid the price for lack of treatment.

 

See, the only family history we have is that I am OCD and it presents as hypochondria. I also have generalized anxiety (but mostly anxiety over the diseases I fear I have as part of the ocd/hypochondria). My ex (B's dad) is very hyper and was considered by his mom "very hyperactive" in school. His mom was also easily distractible and very hyperactive (still is). She is "flighty" IMO. However, neither were ever diagnosed ADD or ADHD, neither had anger issues, and no one, including B has had any issues in school. B is extremely smart, thinks outside the box on many levels....but he is also not "overly" smart. He doesn't speak in words above his age level (as was mentioned in an autism and aspergers site I looked at).

 

I don't really want a "diagnosis" as much as I just want help for him (and us)!