SS in MD Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 I'm considering Omnibus II for my rising 8th grader (13 yo) in the fall. I'd love to hear opinions about it - likes/dislikes, did you us it as-is or how did you modify? Also, it looks like a lot of reading did your dc get it all done? Does VP supply a schedule to keep you on track? If you didn't do all books which ones were eliminated (i.e secondary sources?)? Can my sixth grader (11 yo soon-to-be 12 in Nov) tag along?? Would this be too much for her? She does love to read, but I know this is heavy reading. One more question, I know VP has an online Omnibus classes - they are pricey, but anyone taken these? Are they worth the $$? One thing with online dd will have to read all the books! Does omnibus cover teach writing? Or are there writing assignments? My dc enjoy writing, we've done summaries, narrative writing, the writing process but haven't done CM style writing before. I want to mature 13 yo's writing. I'd like her to learn how to analyze writing and learn literary analysis. I know this is another post - but any suggestions on writing curriculums that do this? Any insights you can give me would help make my decision. Thanks SO much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicmom Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 My ds did Omnibus in 10th grade and we really liked it. I thought the content was excellent. It got us both discussing things, and while that was difficult at first (my ds is not a talker), I can see the fruit now, two years later. My ds also really enjoyed the books, and the Omnibus text in general. It is heavy reading, and a lot of it. I’m not sure ds would have been ready for it in 8th grade, but then too, quite a bit of the work is comprehension level, which would fit 8th grade just fine. Perhaps others who did this in middle school will also respond with their perspective. As for scheduling, the book has an appendix with a suggested reading schedule, and this is basically how it works: The work for each book is organized into “Sessions†(a session could be a discussion, comprehension questions, a quiz, a writing assignment, an activity, a test, etc..) and you kind of shoot for doing roughly a session per day (though some will take more, so you have to use your judgment.) The Omnibus schedule has you doing 2 books, a primary and a secondary, concurrently--with 5 sessions/week for the primary books, and 3 sessions/week for the secondary books. That would be 8 sessions per week, and some of these sessions can take an hour, or several! So I would recommend not trying to do all the books—we didn’t do all of them—and not trying to do all the sessions for each book. Just pick the books/sessions that you think will be the most important/valuable, and then make your own weekly schedule based on theirs—for example, you might want to alternate primary and secondary books instead of trying to do two at once. Or another option might be to just do the primary books or just do the secondary books. If you’d like to know my list, feel free to pm me and I’ll try to find it and send it to you. There are writing assignments in Omnibus, including some classical writing exercises, but it really doesn’t teach writing—you’ll need something else for writing instruction. Omnibus also does not teach literary analysis; once in a while it will touch on a literary aspect of a work, but there is certainly nothing comprehensive. So you need something else to teach this as well. What Omnibus teaches very well is worldview (Christian), and analysis of important questions raised by each book. I do wish it taught more literary analysis/writing as well. It is hard to add more stuff on top of Omnibus. That said, we really did enjoy Omnibus II and I plan to use it again with my dd in high school. Hope this helps. Feel free to pm me if you have further questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS in MD Posted July 18, 2009 Author Share Posted July 18, 2009 Musicmom, Thanks very much for the response. It was very helpful. I too wonder if my 8th grader would be able to handle the reading... That's why I've ruled out the VP scholars online class. Then she will have to ready *everything* and probalby be overwhelmed. Does Omnibus cover history as well? I noticed in the VP calalog they recommend Western Civilization by Spielgovel (sp?), but I could tell it the give page numbers in Omnibus to read? Can yoiu clarify this? I also looked at the online sample, the writng assignments seemed to be where student needs to give their opinion and why. My dd hasn't really writiten that type of essays. So, I'm wondering what writing curriculum to use? Any suggestions?? I'm really stuck on this. Yes, I would love to see your list. Feel free to PM me or I can PM you - thanks so much for offering. Lots to think about and decisions to make. Dio your dc do a 4 year history cycle (wtm)? If you did, I'm just curious what did you use for the logic stage for history & lit? - thanks again for sharing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
titianmom Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 No it doesn't cover the history well at all. You have to teach history on the side. Here's my response on the other thread: I'm going to be honest and up front with you. I bought it because I thought the "sample" on Veritas looked great; you know, the one for Genesis. My husband took a look at it, also (Pastor) and thought it was just what we were looking for, too. I managed to get a copy to view, and boy, were we disappointed. I was really hoping that this is what we could use for the next 5 years (Omnibus series). We read a couple of the essays and went over the questions that were asked at the end and all of that. I looked at the CD, also. The CD is well laid out, no problems there. They give you a very nice timeline and a sched for reading the leasons. The book is thick and colorful with a nice layout. No problem with the quality... Again, we read a few of the essays. One of the essays we read wasn't even very coherent (the one on Luther). IMO, most of the essays were unnec. We understood what the theme of the book was trying to get at, and I understand the importance of sound doctrine, but I'm not a hardline Calvinist, and frankly I didn't agree with Luther's attitude toward a lot of things which this volume tried to justify. So unless you're Calvin/Luther-follower, I wouldn't bother with this series. No offense to the Reformed out there; I love R.C., even have several of his books and a 2 tape series and have attended his conference on the Holiness of God, was with him 100%! (I realize he isn't the end-all of the Reformed movement, but he is a major rep.) But the book was way too much for the average 8th grader, IMHO, both in workload and attitude. And to top it all off, you still have to teach the history on the side! No kid can complete that kind of load unless you work them for several hrs a day to get the rest of the curriculum load in, plus a language, for ex. Therefore, you won't use half the book, anyway. I'm just explaining my strong thoughts on it that you won't find elsewhere. I had asked the forum, here, before I ever got a copy asking if it was worth the money. My short ans: No. You can take it for what it's worth. I quickly sold my copy. Peace, Kim PS: My daughter is a very bright kid and a great writer (I wish I were as bright as she is) and she thanked me profusely that I didn't make her do Omnibus II. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS in MD Posted July 18, 2009 Author Share Posted July 18, 2009 Kim, I responded to your post on the K-8 board. - Thanks!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicmom Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 Hi SS, Well, Kim’s reply came in while I was typing mine. Do take her points into consideration as well as you figure out whether this curriculum will suit you or not. It can be way too much unless you pare it down. She is correct, and I forgot to mention, that the viewpoint is Reformed, and we didn’t always agree with it. But that was okay with us—it made for added discussions. And we skipped Luther altogether. I’ll pm you shortly with my list. In the meantime, here’s the reply I had typed up: I think if your 8th grader is a good reader and quite mature, it could work out well. I do know of other 8th graders who seem to have done well with Omnibus and enjoyed it. Yes, Omnibus covers history, but not comprehensively. For each book there is an introductory essay that usually discusses the historical context. Then at the end of the essay, there is usually a reference to a few pages in Spielvogel’s Western Civilization. However, unless you have the exact edition of Spielvogel that they used when they wrote Omnibus II, the page numbers are not going to match up! And it won’t be obvious what section is being referenced either. So what I did was to have my ds read, over the course of the year, the chapters of Spielvogel that covered medieval history—about 8 pp/week—which gave more of a flow and more detail for the history portion. Western Civilization is very good and well written, and I had already purchased it at the recommendation of WTM. It is a college level text--and it doesn’t cover non-western history at all. I’ve heard others on this board talk about Spielvogel’s Human Odyssey, which I believe is a high school text and, I think, covers more of the world. That might be an option to check into as well. At any rate, if you purchase Western Civilization, you might want to look for it used on Amazon (as I did)—much cheaper. Writing: you might look into IEW (Institute for Excellence in Writing.) It’s designed to work across your curriculum and it will teach basic essay writing. There are a couple of ways you could go with it. You could do the foundational writing seminar (TWSS) alone, having your dd watch it along with you, and then use Omnibus material to practice the techniques (and actually this is what I did with my ds, having discovered IEW late). Or you could do the Medieval History-based writing lessons for more structure and direction (ideally having also watched the TWSS seminar so you know what’s going on!) If you use the History-based writing lessons, you might not have much time for Omnibus writing assignments in addition—but that might be just fine. In any case, you can choose what Omnibus writing assignments you think will be worthwhile or appealing to your dd, adapt them to fit your needs, and skip the rest. You could even just use them to give your dd experience with writing down what she thinks and why—just a few sentences or a paragraph, with no particular format, instead of an essay. Here are a couple links for IEW: The main program: http://www.excellenceinwriting.com/index.php?q=catalog/writing Medieval writing lessons: http://www.excellenceinwriting.com/index.php?q=product/medieval-history-based-writing-lessons It is a lot to think about and a lot of decisions—I get more gray hairs every year wrestling with these things! Yes, my dc have been doing roughly a 4 year history cycle ala WTM. For logic stage I used: History: Kingfisher History Encyclopedia Story of the World by Susan Wise Bauer History of US by Joy Hakim Some historical fiction from Sonlight Literature: Ds did WTM reading lists Dd did Lightning Lit 7 and 8 (both of which give a nice start in literary analysis :)) HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
titianmom Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 The books they used were fine. I bought Eusebius for us to read next year in our Middle Ages study, for ex. I guess when I say that the essays are unnec, I mean that if you bought the volumes they recommend (not all, but the ones you believe you can actually cover over a year of school) and come up with your own essays and questions, which IMHO aren't that tough if you read them together...well, you really don't need the Omnibus, IMO. Of course this implies that you read the books along with the student(s). I read over the summer and I pick and choose, then I can discuss and assign writing as I wish. Works out well. Depends of course on how much time you have and how much you love ta read... some of their selections we've already read (secondaries). Take care, Kim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackie in NE Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 I'm considering Omnibus II for my rising 8th grader (13 yo) in the fall. I'd love to hear opinions about it - likes/dislikes, did you us it as-is or how did you modify? Also, it looks like a lot of reading did your dc get it all done? Does VP supply a schedule to keep you on track? If you didn't do all books which ones were eliminated (i.e secondary sources?)? Can my sixth grader (11 yo soon-to-be 12 in Nov) tag along?? Would this be too much for her? She does love to read, but I know this is heavy reading. One more question, I know VP has an online Omnibus classes - they are pricey, but anyone taken these? Are they worth the $$? One thing with online dd will have to read all the books! Does omnibus cover teach writing? Or are there writing assignments? My dc enjoy writing, we've done summaries, narrative writing, the writing process but haven't done CM style writing before. I want to mature 13 yo's writing. I'd like her to learn how to analyze writing and learn literary analysis. I know this is another post - but any suggestions on writing curriculums that do this? Any insights you can give me would help make my decision. Thanks SO much! I have never tried to teach Omnibus myself. I looked at all of that reading, and just knew that I'd never find the time to do it justice. So, dd took Omnibus I online in 7th, Omnibus II online in 8th, and will take Omnibus III online next year in 9th. We are VERY happy with these classes. In fact Omnibus is dd's favorite class, and the main reason that dd wants to continue homeschooling, rather than pursue other options. A major complaint from previous posters seems to be the inadequate history content in Omnibus. But I will argue that history is very adequately covered in the online course in an engaging and challenging way, through the classical books studied. For example, dd informs me that much of the discussion around the Song of Roland centered on the history of France, around the History of the Kings of Britain, on the history of Great Britain, etc. The instructors are excellent, and do a great job of making the classes fun and interesting. The course is challenging! No multiple choice quizzes here. Dd takes both primary and secondary courses, and has 2-1500 word papers due in each course each semester. So that was 8 papers last year. And the content is challenging. Dd also had a mid-term and a final in each course. These are all essay question exams, with the answers required ranging in length from a couple of sentences (about 15 questions), to 800 words (3-5 essays), to 1000 words (2 essays). The student is given up to 5 hours to take each exam, but dd finished them in 2.5-3 hours. I simply do not have the time to incorporate a course of this rigor into our schedule. But I believe that this sort of rigor is needed to prepare the student who is going directly into a LA type of college after high school. MANY people would disagree with me, I'm sure. So Omnibus online works beautifully for us, but may not fit with your needs or plans. Feel free to pm me, if you have more questions..... HTH, Jackie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS in MD Posted July 19, 2009 Author Share Posted July 19, 2009 Jackie, I sent you a PM - Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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