Concurrent Enrollment Program under fire in NC

[LoriM]

As many of you know, my older dd took full advantage of the wonderful concurrent enrollment program here in NC, and received an AA while in high school. She transferred over to our local university, and is set to graduate in December with a BA in Mathematics at age 20.

 

Well, my younger dd completed her first semester in the spring, and we went this morning to choose her courses for the fall semester. She was very excited--she's chosen anthropology and ethics, as well as music, Spanish, and English.

 

Unfortunately, the state legislature has over $4 billion to cut from our state budget, and the concurrent enrollment program ($35M statewide) is on the list of things that will be cut, as the conversation stands right now in the state discussion.

 

They intend to leave availability for math and science courses, and for "job training" courses (tech courses), but no humanities. And there is not an option for students to pay the tuition and take these courses at an out-of-pocket cost.

 

In my dd's case, it would be setting her up for failure to change direction and have her take the math/science at the CC, instead of the humanities. She's more than prepared for college-level work in humanities, and needs the interaction/discussion that those courses can provide. I am more than capable of hsing the math and science (LOL) and she is still working on her high school level skills in those areas.

 

Anyway, my DH has spent the morning on the phone with our state legislators, and it's not looking good. In fact, we may find that our only option to truly meet our child's needs is to graduate her early and abruptly, and sign up as a regular college student in August. And that is just too bad, because she is NOT ready to be a high school graduate (LOL) in her "real world" life at age 16.

 

If you are a NC parent who plans to use the NCCCS for any part of your child's high school coursework, I highly encourage you to call or email your representative. We'll know either way by July 31. Pitt CC is making a decision locally sooner than that so that the area high schools have time to revise hundreds of schedules before classes start in the fall.

 

Sigh.

 

Lori

[8filltheheart]

What is the logic in not allowing them to pay to take the courses? Are they afraid there won't be enough teachers for the college age kids?

 

NC is(or I guess was) one of the few states that pd for kids take classes not through ps dual enrollment. We have always had to pay for our kids CC/uni dual enrollment courses.

 

Have you contacted ECU to see if you could pay for her to take the courses there? We have been much happier with our uni dual enrollment courses over the CC ones.

[outtamyshell]

Oh, this is terrible news. It looks like ECU is not letting any non-degree students into their classes. I can't imagine why the community college wouldn't let you dual enroll and pay for the course.

 

Keep us posted. Just when you think you've got it all figured out... everything changes.

[Laura]

However, I called our local cc last week or so and was told funding still applied for this coming semester...are you saying we cannot enroll this August? I have called and written emails to try and stop this.

[nchser]

This is very upsetting to me! My dd is enrolled for the first time, and we were so excited about the classes she enrolled in.

This would change everything! Financially, academically, and so much more.... She is my oldest, I have 2 more close behind.

I got a letter today from Wake Tech, and it looks very much like the Fall semester is impacted. They say they are working diligently with the legislative leaders and advising them that as the fall semester draws near, students need to know whether or not they will be allowed to remain in selected courses.

They list all the course prefixes that will be allowed (74) and the ones they will not be allowed (27).

Unfortunately my dd is registered to take Psychology and Spanish. Both on the no list.

I've already called our rep Paul Stam, but I was only able to leave a message.

[Jane in NC]

Thanks for the update, as depressing as it may be.

 

Have you heard anything about where the legislature stands regarding NC's Virtual High School? I had heard that this was potentially on the chopping block early on, but it had been saved. Any further news?

[Laurie4b]

http://www.reflector.com/news/educators-loss-of-dual-enrollment-may-cause-chaos-710225.html?showEmail=true

 

This article makes it sound as if dual enrollment is still possible if you take the course in person, on campus, but that online dual enrollment is limited to math/science. Is that the way the rest of you read it?

[LoriM]

http://www.reflector.com/news/educators-loss-of-dual-enrollment-may-cause-chaos-710225.html?showEmail=true

 

This article makes it sound as if dual enrollment is still possible if you take the course in person, on campus, but that online dual enrollment is limited to math/science. Is that the way the rest of you read it?

 

No, the "Huskins Bill" is the program where most students attend classes on campuses statewide. It is being cut down to only math/science and tech courses (both online and on campus). Our representative said they would "try" to open up high school courses to our homeschooled students (!) to replace the loss of college coursework. My husband showed much more restraint than I would have (LOL) and didn't explain to her how that is just not an option.

 

The Early College High School program is a five-year commitment that is the equivalent of public high school (with limited enrollment) where students take *high school* classes on campus concurrently with college courses to accomplish both a high school diploma and an AA degree in five years. It is not being cut, but that's because it's really just a PS high school on the CC campuses (and has only been in effect for two years).

[LoriM]

Thanks for the update, as depressing as it may be.

 

Have you heard anything about where the legislature stands regarding NC's Virtual High School? I had heard that this was potentially on the chopping block early on, but it had been saved. Any further news?

 

I thought the new name for VHS was "Learn and Earn." If so, it is definitely being cut...reduced to math/science and tech.

 

When DH spoke with Sen. Jenkins yesterday, he said the real problem is that the PS and the NCCCS have both been paid for the same students. So, it's a funding stream issue...where the PS are claiming "fulltime" status for students who are only attending halftime. It's always about the money.

 

You know, if it were my job to reduce the state budget to meet the defecit, I'd simply reduce *every* line item by the 10-12% we are down, and give them the money, and say, "Figure it out. That's what you get."

 

I still don't see how the concurrent enrollment program costs $35 million statewide. Here at PCC, for example, we have four staff people supporting the program. I'd estimate no more than $250,000 salary and benefits for them. Times 57 community colleges statewide (assuming they are going to recoup with labor costs), we have $14.5M. The courses the kids are taking are "surplus seats" because they cannot take a paying student's seat. So there is not any real savings there. Where are they getting the other $20M from???

[Kathy in MD]

Oh, this is terrible news. It looks like ECU is not letting any non-degree students into their classes. I can't imagine why the community college wouldn't let you dual enroll and pay for the course.

 

Keep us posted. Just when you think you've got it all figured out... everything changes.

 

A lot of CC's are reporting that they're swamped with applicants as adults are trying to get in to improve their job prospects. Combined with budget cuts for many CC's, many are having to limit enrollment. So as difficult as it is for high school students, it only makes sense that high school students are the first not to be admitted.

 

It's still a bummer.

[Laurie4b]

Both the senator and the representative from our district are highly supportive of the dual enrollment option. The representative's kids benefitted from dual enrollment when they were in high school. My representative checked and found out that the cut was in the House budget, but not in the Senate budget and that the Senate negotiator was likely to agree to the House negotiator's point on that. However, the person he talked with also said that he was unaware of anything that would prevent a homeschool student from paying for dual enrollment. He suggested that I talk with the dual enrollment person at the community college about that.

 

The proposal to cut dual enrollment except for math, science, and technology came from the community college system. From their point of view, dual enrollment was not their core function and the cut could save millions.

Edited July 17, 2009 by Laurie4b
updated information

[Laurie4b]

A lot of CC's are reporting that they're swamped with applicants as adults are trying to get in to improve their job prospects. Combined with budget cuts for many CC's, many are having to limit enrollment. So as difficult as it is for high school students, it only makes sense that high school students are the first not to be admitted.

 

It's still a bummer.

 

In this part of the state, dual enrolled kids cannot even attempt to register until the first day of late registration. (Given that other NC homeschoolers have already enrolled, clearly that's not the way all the community colleges function.) At this point, the registration process has been closed for weeks, and will reopen on "Late registration day" . I've checked online and there are still spaces available in many classes, so I don't think that issue is in play.

[coopers5]

that all of these various programs - from state to state - are putting so much darn emphasis on math and science - as if the humanities don't matter. It's really upsetting because if you think about it, a lack of knowledge and understanding of our western culture is what has gotten us in the mess we are in in this country and pushing kids into math and science, giving them monetary incentive to do so, even when perhaps that is not their gifting, just perpetuates this problem and will, in time, make it even worse.

 

I believe this math, science, technology emphasis is nothing more than a statement that history doesn't matter and won't matter to the generations to come.

 

This is something we should all be concerned about. This is why you see a shift in colleges from the liberal arts core curricula to more specializing and techno emphasis. Kids are coming out of schools with very little ability to think and reason and NO knowledge of western culture and civ.

 

Sorry if this seems like a rabbit trail to some, but to me, it's so obvious when I see things like this go on.

Nothing meant against techno gifted kids - at all - I'm only commenting on the unequal treatment.

[LoriM]

that all of these various programs - from state to state - are putting so much darn emphasis on math and science - as if the humanities don't matter. It's really upsetting because if you think about it, a lack of knowledge and understanding of our western culture is what has gotten us in the mess we are in in this country and pushing kids into math and science, giving them monetary incentive to do so, even when perhaps that is not their gifting, just perpetuates this problem and will, in time, make it even worse.

 

I believe this math, science, technology emphasis is nothing more than a statement that history doesn't matter and won't matter to the generations to come.

 

This is something we should all be concerned about. This is why you see a shift in colleges from the liberal arts core curricula to more specializing and techno emphasis. Kids are coming out of schools with very little ability to think and reason and NO knowledge of western culture and civ.

 

Sorry if this seems like a rabbit trail to some, but to me, it's so obvious when I see things like this go on.

Nothing meant against techno gifted kids - at all - I'm only commenting on the unequal treatment.

 

I *teach* math and science, and I am flabbergasted by the emphasis on math, science and technology courses. IMHO, the humanities are the very courses that our students are best served by the CC system. After all, those courses require a lot of evaluation and higher-thinking processes, strong written components, and DISCUSSION. Particularly in the homeschool community, it is to a student's benefit to have a class to bounce ideas, hear opposing points of view, and really question what they "know" or believe at this point in their lives.

 

My younger dd only had one semester at the CC (so far) and I see a DRAMATIC difference in her maturity and independence. She had English, Spanish, Art Appreciation, Health and Digital Photography her first semester. She handled that courseload beautifully, and met many challenges that hsing alone had not given her up until that point.

 

Honestly, I'd rather see my daughters hit math later (with the appropriate skills) than earlier while lacking confidence and strong abstract reasoning skills. Now, I'm not a "delayed math" advocate, but I certainly think that 16 year olds have PLENTY of time to get to Calculus. LOL. Even if my daughters don't take Calculus I until they are fully 18 years old, I'd think that was great...or even 20 years old! (Now, my firstborn broke those deadlines, but my younger daughter may be 20 before she approaches Calculus...if she ever does. It could be Business Calc by that time...)

 

Anyway, I agree wholeheartedly that the liberal arts contain the subjects that will shape our culture, not the technologies. But ethics in technology is also a major need...and what I've always wanted for my daughters was strong readers, thinkers and learners who embraced math and science. GRIN. Why else educate classically?

 

My older dd is a balance of art and math. My younger dd will probably embrace some form of design and business.

 

Rant over. I agree entirely...and will do whatever we have to do to get my dd into the courses she wants, including graduate her. Sigh.

[LoriM]

The proposal to cut dual enrollment except for math, science, and technology came from the community college system. From their point of view, dual enrollment was not their core function and the cut could save millions.

 

Yes, that's what we heard as well. DH says this is what they'd call in the military "the golden calf." The CC system *never* thought they'd actually accept that cut, but offered up an "uncut-able" program as their offering of "well, if you must cut something, this is all we can part with..." Now the NCCCS has been back-pedaling trying to get it "uncut."

 

I still don't see how the "millions" are going to be saved. Either they will disband the Concurrent Enrollment program offices (and layoff people) or they will just move those people to other offices. Even if that is what happens, the "millions" don't add up.

[Laurie4b]

No one in the legislature seems to know for certain the answer to the question as to whether a high school student can opt to pay for a community college course. NCHE office says that right now, it's sounding as if they will allow each individual community college to make that call. The community college system is also asking the legislature to delay any changes until spring. I'm okay if we're allowed to pay. If not, our whole education plan for one of my students is out the window on very short notice and it's hard to come up with Plan B on a dime. I have one student whose test-taking skills are not equivalent to his knowledge and the cc system seemed like the best option to verify his abilities. He is not the math-science guy, though we might take a science through cc to get that out of the way. <sigh>

[Laurie4b]

Yes, that's what we heard as well. DH says this is what they'd call in the military "the golden calf." The CC system *never* thought they'd actually accept that cut, but offered up an "uncut-able" program as their offering of "well, if you must cut something, this is all we can part with..." Now the NCCCS has been back-pedaling trying to get it "uncut."

 

I still don't see how the "millions" are going to be saved. Either they will disband the Concurrent Enrollment program offices (and layoff people) or they will just move those people to other offices. Even if that is what happens, the "millions" don't add up.

 

Yeah--millions how? They only have one dual enrollment person per cc--at least around here. I'm not sure what all they do, but whatever it is, they will still have to do it for math and science courses. I'm not sure what other expenses there would be if students paid their own tuition. If there are open seats in a class after registration is closed, then homeschoolers registering during late registration are not prompting new sections to be created, just filling seats in classes that have openings. So the teacher will already have had to be paid, the A/C on, etc. I, too, don't get the great savings. Ds says there were zero other high school students in his last class anyway, so it's not like it's a lot of students.

[K-FL]

:iagree: with Laurie4B. Our cc is tiny & the dual-enrolled kids are a super tiny minority w/in each class (usually my dd is it.) I can understand not sending a prof. to the HS to teach his class there, but if they're having the class & it's not full, what's the difference where the fees are coming from?

 

Our cc is recruiting as much dual-enrollment as they can. Ours is funded through the lottery, not regular budget so that funding isn't as much at the legislative whim. It's "guaranteed" money for the cc.

[8filltheheart]

One thought in case any local enrollment falls through.......have you considered looking into online dual enrollment options that are offered through schools like Bryan College? I remember a thread a yr or so ago that listed a lot of unis that offered that option. I only remember Bryan though. (We used to live right near there so it stood out.)

[Laurie4b]

That's an interesting thought. Thanks so much!

[April in NC]

I was thinking about how this cut could save so much money, and I'm wondering if the community college system has been charging the state for enrolling these dual enrollment students. Sort of like public schools get funding based on enrollment, I'm wondering if the community college system gets funding based on number of credits taken by dual enrolled students. This might help account for the $35 million or however much they say this cut will save the state.

 

So, the community college thinks this program is uncuttable and says "This is the only place we can cut - you (the state) won't have to pay us for enrolling dual-enrollment students except in a few subject areas."

 

I think it is a time-honored tradition in politics to do this kind of strategy. It sounds like it is backfiring, here, though. I really hope we can get enough outcry to reverse this change.

[Laurie4b]

I get the impression that it's beyond the outcry stage and needs divine intervention. Maybe after the budget is passed there can be an amendment allowing dual-enrolled students to pay tuition for their humanities courses taken at the cc (if that's not going to be allowed. No one seems to know. Love the way our laws are made.)

[LoriM]

I actually told my dd I'm counting this under her Civics/American Government credit! LOL!

[LoriM]

One of the employees of our local Concurrent Enrollment office is a homeschool mom with a kid in the program. She called me this morning...and sounded completely hopeless. It really looks like we'll be graduating our daughters abruptly.

 

Well, yet another reason to do strong academic work prior to age 16! LOL! My dd has completed all the graduation requirements she'll need...with the exception of our "rule" of waiting until 19 to graduate. That's two for two who will have broken our "rule!" Ha! So much for thinking I had things all figured out.

[G5052]

A lot of CC's are reporting that they're swamped with applicants as adults are trying to get in to improve their job prospects. Combined with budget cuts for many CC's, many are having to limit enrollment. So as difficult as it is for high school students, it only makes sense that high school students are the first not to be admitted.

 

It's still a bummer.

 

I'm a part-time community college professor in another state, but I hear all sorts of rumblings. The reality is that what the students pay is only a small fraction of the whole cost for a state institution. It's not that they want to turn away paying customers, it's that they can only handle a certain number of students and demand has skyrocketed. My college has really beat the bushes locally and has a good cadre of donors, so they're OK this fall even with the decrease in state funding. The current projection is that they will be financially about where they were last year when school starts BUT they're projecting a significant increase in the number of bodies. So we've been told to expect fewer, larger classes, and they've already dropped some certificate and degree programs. No sections will be added, and students who register late are going to be disappointed.

 

At one point they were debating about dual enrollment here too, but they decided to just say first-come-first serve regardless of degree status. So I've been telling my homeschool friends to get their teens registered pronto because the classes are truly filling fast. Here, homeschool parents pay for dual enrollment though.

Edited July 20, 2009 by GVA

[Laurie4b]

Some friends are thinking of letting their kids take a GED so they can take whatever courses they want; only they won't graduate them until planned. One friend already did that ( I don't really know why) and no colleges objected to her dd's transcript (including Duke).

 

I will definitely be badgering my representative to intro. a bill to allow them to take credits at their own expense after the budget stuff is passed. The only catch would be if the state subsidizes tuition at all for the cc students in general, or if tuition covers it.

[iwka]

 

They intend to leave availability for math and science courses, and for "job training" courses (tech courses), but no humanities. And there is not an option for students to pay the tuition and take these courses at an out-of-pocket cost.

 

Lori

 

I am reading "Climbing Parnassus" and choosing to keep "job training" and science courses over humanities is falling totally under "what happened to our education and why" element.

[Alyce]

for doing the dual enrollment courses. Basically the colleges have to cut back on the number of courses they are offering to anyone because the state just can't fund pay for it. Rather than cut regular classes they are trying to cut out the dual enrollment slots to accomodate the adults who want to take the classes. I talked with my CC today and they say they haven't heard anything about us not being able to pay for the course ourselves. Officially there really hasn't been anything decided and the only thing being discussed officially is cutting back to only offering Math and Science courses. Our CC hasn't heard anything officially so they're still planning on doing it the way they've always done it until they are told not to. It's still 3 weeks away till late registration so anything and nothing can happen. We all have to wait and see.

[LoriM]

DH just called to let me know he'd just spoken with another one of our representatives who said the Concurrent Enrollment program is back in the budget *right this second* but that things are changing nearly every hour. Sigh. I think we won't have clear resolution about Fall 2009 until after classes start...but that may just be the pessimist in me.

 

If you haven't called, please do! Your voice is heard.

[Sandra in NC]

Proposed cuts to transferable courses would affect Pamlico students

July 17, 2009 - 5:50 PM

Laura Oleniacz

Sun Journal Staff

 

BAYBORO — Local leaders are concerned about a state budget proposal that aims to cut funding for a program that gives Pamlico County High School students a chance to earn general education college credits for free.

 

There are about 100 high school students already registered for psychology, sociology, English and other general education courses that can be transferred for college credit through the Huskins Bill Program with Pamlico Community College.

 

The classes are free for the students, but the N.C. General Assembly’s House budget bill proposes to cut funding for them in the upcoming school year.

 

“That would be a very big hardship on the (high) school,†Pamlico County Schools Superintendent James P. Coon said Thursday. “I would have to bring (those students) back to the high school. It would lower their overall grade point averages because I don’t have more honors courses for these students to take.â€

 

Kennon Briggs, executive vice president of the N.C. Community College System, said the House budget proposal is still on the table in ongoing budget discussions by state legislators to cut funding for non-math and science transferable college courses in the Huskins and Dual-Enrollment programs, for an estimated savings of $14.6 million. Funding for math and science, as well as vocational courses such as cosmetology or welding, would be left in place.

 

“(The proposal) is still in some controversy, but it appears that that is going to continue (in the discussion),†Briggs said. “The longer the uncertainty remains, the more difficult it is for the community colleges and the public school systems to respond if this cut prevails.â€

 

Jamie Gibbs, PCC’s dean of student services, said the proposal would have a large impact on high school students because there is no “plan B†at Pamlico Community College to offer college credit courses for free through an early college program.

 

Coon added that Pamlico County High School has Advanced Placement courses giving students the opportunity to earn college credits, but the school heavily relies on the Huskins and Dual Enrollment programs.

 

“In many larger districts, they may be able to absorb that in regular AP courses because they have a greater depth in courses that they offer,†he said.

 

Coon added that if the programs were cut, he expects that many students may not be able to afford the community college classes, which cost $50 per credit hour.

 

“A significant number of kids would not be prepared to pay for it, and we’re not prepared to handle the influx of these kids coming back at the honors level and teach those courses because we’ve relied so heavily on community college courses,†he said.

 

Despite funding uncertainty, college leaders held an orientation for about 50 high school students and parents on Thursday. At the end of the evening, leaders encouraged participants to contact their local state representatives about the proposal.

 

Several students who attended are interested in taking the classes for which funding is in jeopardy. Katie Moore, 16, is planning to graduate as a junior after taking courses in the Huskins program.

 

“It’s helping me graduate early as a junior,†she said, adding that she plans to attend East Carolina University to study nursing. She said she hoped to take a psychology course before she graduates — which is one course that would be affected by the proposal.

 

“I’m just interested in what people think, and it would help me with nursing,†she said.

 

Tiffany Mayo, 17, a senior, attended the orientation with her stepmother Kathy Mayo. Tiffany said she was hoping to take psychology and sociology courses — “the ones that would be effected if they decide to do away with it,†Kathy Mayo said.

 

Mayo added that the courses would help Tiffany earn a community college degree. She said she’s going to contact legislators about the proposal.

 

“We’ll definitely either e-mail or call,†she said.

[Alyce]

The Huskins program which is what several public schools use for college level programs(the funding from these come directly from the federal and state government) and Dual-Enrollmentprogram which is what homeschoolers, private schoolers and some public schoolers use (the state reimburses the CC for the cost of the students taking these courses). The Huskins program is pretty well cut from the Budget, even my CC is expecting that but what will happen to the Dual-Enrollment program is still up in the air. There is discussion and a proposal to have the state no longer pay for any dual-enrollment course unless it's a math or science course. My CC said they have not heard any discussion about not allowing students to pay for these out of their own pockets. Before much can be done the state has to pass it's budget. Now that they know how they're going to get the money they will have to decide where the money will be spent. Given what the news is saying and past years, we will have a budget within the next 2 weeks. Most colleges aren't doing Late-Registration until around Aug 8 so we should know something by then. My CC is functioning as if the Dual-Enrollment will procede. They are still having the students to the pre-registration paperwork and apply for admittance if they haven't already and then if the legislature makes cuts they deal with them at that time.

[nchser]

I'd be happy to pay if that were worked out - I believe tuition at our cc (Wake Tech - is it the same everywhere?) .is 42.00/credit hour, or something like that. 126.00 plus cost of books would be better than losing that option all together.

 

I've been on the phone for the past week or so, called every legislator who has any involvement in the decision. The good thing is, they tell me they've received lots of calls.

 

I'm told they are working hard to keep it in, so I haven't given up all hope, but I'm sure they would say that whichever way they end up voting.

[Laurie4b]

The bill that went to the governor and which she sent back cuz she didn't like the revenue raising proposals is now online. http://www.ncleg.net/Sessions/2009/Bills/Senate/PDF/S202v6.pdf

 

It's almost 300 pp long, and I don't know what to search for in the bill, but I'm going to try to see if I can find out if it made this version. Anyone else who finds out first let me know.

 

We live within driving distance of two different community colleges. A person from a senator's office called for me and found that h.s. kids can enroll in one if they pay but not the other.

[Alyce]

since the governor rejected this proposal anyway and this is the senate proposal it doesn't mean anything. The senate wants to study the problem. That's great but it was the House that wants to cut spending. And like I said since the governor rejected this everything is back to square one anyway.

[Laurie4b]

I didn't realize that it was the Senate proposal. Someone from a senator's office told me the budget that the legislature had passed was online. (I knew the gov had rejected the revenue proposals, but wondered if dual enrollment had made it into the final version of the budget before she rejected it.)

[Alyce]

The budget has not been finalized and/or voted on and passed. Once the legislature decides how they are going to get their money then another committee gets to decide how it will be spent. Once the committees are done with their proposals they send them to the house and senate where they are voted to finalize them, then it goes to the governor to sign. What governor Perdue did was to stop the process at the point that they had decided how to come up for the money to run the state on. She didn't like the idea of a income tax increase and she wanted to make sure everyone understood that the money raised would safeguard our states educational system. She has yet to say what she means by that. I really doubt that a budget will be passed and signed on for several more weeks. It's impacting everyone and obviously education because they get their approvals for their programs and how much money they are allowed to spend. I'm still waiting to hear what my dd college is going to charge for tuition this year. Fortunately she got a lot of finacial aid so it won't matter much but it's going to be down to the wire for both the colleges and the community colleges. The schools will make some sort of decision by registration time even if the budget is not passed by then. There have been several years where it took them forever to reach a budget, one year we didn't get a budget until December. So we must now sit on our hands until these folks finish the battle and we won't know until the last day when or how it's going to be settled.

[Laurie4b]

Thanks. That's a very clear explanation!

[LoriM]

The Huskins program which is what several public schools use for college level programs(the funding from these come directly from the federal and state government) and Dual-Enrollmentprogram which is what homeschoolers, private schoolers and some public schoolers use (the state reimburses the CC for the cost of the students taking these courses). The Huskins program is pretty well cut from the Budget, even my CC is expecting that but what will happen to the Dual-Enrollment program is still up in the air. There is discussion and a proposal to have the state no longer pay for any dual-enrollment course unless it's a math or science course. My CC said they have not heard any discussion about not allowing students to pay for these out of their own pockets. Before much can be done the state has to pass it's budget. Now that they know how they're going to get the money they will have to decide where the money will be spent. Given what the news is saying and past years, we will have a budget within the next 2 weeks. Most colleges aren't doing Late-Registration until around Aug 8 so we should know something by then. My CC is functioning as if the Dual-Enrollment will procede. They are still having the students to the pre-registration paperwork and apply for admittance if they haven't already and then if the legislature makes cuts they deal with them at that time.

 

 

Alyce,

 

The Huskins Bill *IS* the dual enrollment program. There is no other option for public or private high school students to attend CC. Reimbursement to the CC occurs through the funding from the Huskins Bill. (The Early College High School program is an entirely different animal; it is a public school on the CC campus, and takes five years...students finish with an AA.)

 

Huskins is where the debate lies in the committee according to the representatives and senators we've spoken with in Raleigh.

 

I worked for the NCCCS until last June. :) It is a statewide decision that high schoolers cannot attend classes outside the constraints of the Huskins or ECHS, so paying out of pocket is not an option. We use one statewide registration/reporting system of data management...all the CCs have to conform. There are some individual things, but admitting high schoolers is not one of them. So either they'll decide to let high schoolers take classes (and pay) or no high schoolers will get to take classes without the Huskins Bill, except for the ECHS kids.

 

Sigh.

[Laurie4b]

Alyce,

 

The Huskins Bill *IS* the dual enrollment program. There is no other option for public or private high school students to attend CC. Reimbursement to the CC occurs through the funding from the Huskins Bill. (The Early College High School program is an entirely different animal; it is a public school on the CC campus, and takes five years...students finish with an AA.)

 

Huskins is where the debate lies in the committee according to the representatives and senators we've spoken with in Raleigh.

 

I worked for the NCCCS until last June. :) It is a statewide decision that high schoolers cannot attend classes outside the constraints of the Huskins or ECHS, so paying out of pocket is not an option. We use one statewide registration/reporting system of data management...all the CCs have to conform. There are some individual things, but admitting high schoolers is not one of them. So either they'll decide to let high schoolers take classes (and pay) or no high schoolers will get to take classes without the Huskins Bill, except for the ECHS kids.

 

Sigh.

 

Lori, could you explain a bit more about the decision as to whether or not to allow high school students to pay? A state senator's research officer called two cc's near us and one said they would allow students to pay; the other said that they wouldn't. Other rep's have told me that it would be up to the cc's to make the decision... no one seems to know. But it sounds like you are saying that it was a decision by the Community College system itself as to whether to allow high school students to attend and pay. Is that right? In that case, we may need to work on an administrative solution rather than a legislative one.

[LoriM]

Lori, could you explain a bit more about the decision as to whether or not to allow high school students to pay? A state senator's research officer called two cc's near us and one said they would allow students to pay; the other said that they wouldn't. Other rep's have told me that it would be up to the cc's to make the decision... no one seems to know. But it sounds like you are saying that it was a decision by the Community College system itself as to whether to allow high school students to attend and pay. Is that right? In that case, we may need to work on an administrative solution rather than a legislative one.

 

Thus far, the state has not "released" that decision to the local CC's authority. And the state policy is not to allow high schoolers to attend outside the Huskins/ECHS legislative funding.

 

An administrative decision will not happen quickly. If anything, the decision will go the other direction. I know our local CC has made a preemptive strike decision not to allow concurrent enrollment this fall (except for math, science and tech) since that is the way they expect the funding to fall, and because they want to allow the high schools time to find classes for the 300+ students who now have screwed up fall schedules.

 

I am still in a quandary. Graduating my dd early is an option, and we can certainly (and would happily) pay tuition at the CC. But ultimately it will cost us a lot of money in her ability to apply for freshman scholarships...since she will no longer be one. Sigh.

 

I'll definitely let you know what we decide to do. And if I hear anything else new...

 

Lori

[Sandra in NC]

If you don't want to graduate your student early, could you have him/her take the GED? Would that allow your student to enroll in the CC but still be homeschooled?

 

Does the CC transcript indicate whether a student is dual enrolled or not?

[Alyce]

My CC is like many of the larger CC. There is a distiction between Huskins students and Dual-Enrollment students. Since some people in this thread are saying otherwise, all I can say is check with your local CC. With my CC Huskins student are students in public high school who are taking courses at the CC during their class time. Our Dual-enrollment program is for high school students who want to take classes outside of their school time. Homeschoolers are placed in this category. They are two distinct different programs. There are different admission criteria and schooling requirements. So although one poster is saying Dual-Enrollment is the Huskins program I have to disagree because it is different at my CC. Do a google search and you will see that many schools have both programs. They are also funded differently that is why one is in jeopardy and one is not. Please rather than take the word of those in this thread, check with your local CC.

[Alyce]

http://www.southwesterncc.edu/collconn/concurrent/faq.htm

 

This is a link to one of the NC CC. It does a very good job of explaining the difference between Dual-Enrollment (what is called here concurrent erollment) and the Huskins program.

[LoriM]

http://www.pittcc.edu/academics/concurrent-enrollment/CEvsLEOvsH-parent_info.pdf

 

Here is a similar document. While this (and the previous) document differentiates between Huskins & Concurrent Enrollment based on the location the classes are delivered, both programs are funded by the same legislation. Rep. Marion McLawhorn spent a looooong time (LOL) explaining that to us, saying it several different ways. In order for one to continue and the other discontinue, new legislation will have to be written. If Huskins dies in committee, we won't get CE either, until new legislation allowing for a new funding stream occurs...which is why there is no allowance statewide for high schoolers to pay for tuition and remain "high schoolers" with dual enrollment credit (like other states have).

[Laurie4b]

If you don't want to graduate your student early, could you have him/her take the GED? Would that allow your student to enroll in the CC but still be homeschooled?

 

Does the CC transcript indicate whether a student is dual enrolled or not?

 

One of my friends did this with one of her kids. I don't know why (it was before this mess.) She had checked with admissions at several colleges, who didn't care if a student got a GED first, then a regular high school diploma. Not sure if this is kosher, but it's been done.

[LoriM]

In order for a student under age 18 to test in the GED program in the state of NC, the parent must sign an affidavit that states the student is a "drop out" and has not attended school for a period of six months. I am not willing to state that my hard-working kid is a drop out...I'd rather graduate her. :)

 

(I worked for the GED program as a Data Management Specialist until June 30, 2008. It was my job to give placement testing for entry into the GED program, and to administer all the GED practice testing for our local CC. This one I know really well...LOL.)