Natalija Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 I am so late and I still haven't been able to decide whether to go with MFW or TOG. I have 7th and 9th grade dd's. Problem with TOG is that I only have a few weeks to plan if I get it as we are going away. Do any of you MFW or TOG users feel they needed to supplement the programs with more writing, grammar or lit analysis, esp for 9th grade? ( I have never done a multi-subject curriculum before but rather pick and choose to try to get the best individual ones.) My 9th grader is behind in writing skills, aside from creative writing. Would we still need R&S English for my 7th grader? Or would it be overkill? Thanks! Natalija Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natalija Posted July 15, 2009 Author Share Posted July 15, 2009 PS- I also don't knwo if I will have enough time to prepare TOG if we wanted to go that route. Any thoughts? I like the Socratic discussion questions built in and need them. As well as having both girls study the same thing. Otherwise, I'd go with MFW Ancients, as I like their book list better. So confused and running out of time! Why do decisions have to be so hard for me!!?!?! Thanks for your time!- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
April in CA Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Hello Natalija, What a pretty name you have! I understand about decisions being hard. Perhaps I can be of assistance about TOG. I have never used MFW, so I can;t offer any advice on that one! I really like TOG, and it wonderful to have everyone studying the same things at the same time. This can lead to some very interesting discussions! TOG does not include grammar instruction, so you would need to add it if you want it. I love Rod and Staff for grammar, personally. I would suggest getting the Writing Aids addition for TOG if you want to use their writing program, which is nicely correlated with the history and literature. I would also suggest getting the Map Aids and evaluations. I don't use the evaluations every week for my high school boys, but I do like having the quarterly exams and the final. My umbrella school requires cumulative exams for honors courses. You really would not need to supplement the literature analysis. If anything, you might need to trim some of the work, which is easy enough to do. I cut the Egyptian and Mesopotamian poetry with no problem. If you do decide to use TOG, I strongly suggest getting the Holman's Bible Atlas and the Norton's Anthology, even if you can't buy all the books - these will make your R student's life much easier. If you are computer savvy (or even if you are not!) you might want to try the Digital Edition (DE) of TOG. That way you can just print off what you need for your students and read the rest on the computer, if that is comfortable for you. Of course, you can print all the teacher's notes if you want, as well. The discussion scripts are such a blessing, but you can adapt them if you need to on occasion. One of the goals of TOG is to develop students who have a biblical worldview and can analyze events and eras from a biblical perspective. We need to be and raise thinkers if we are to impact our culture! I am sure that this is a goal of MFW as well. I am sure that either one would be fine, but I will cast my vote for TOG (since I have never used MFW) One last thing, from a planning perspective, Redesigned TOG is really pretty easy to use. I would strongly encourage anyone to upgrade to the redesigned TOG, for ease of use and the more focused literature program at the R level. Hope this helps! Blessings, April Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leanna Tomlinson Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 :iagree:I'll second everything April said. She just said it better than I could. If your dd is behind in writing skills, Writing Aids would be perfect. You can easily move between levels, or teach both dds using the same level. I have never stuck to one level through a school year, but I pick and choose depending on my children's needs and interests. The lit analysis in TOG is probably the meatiest I have seen. You will probably want to trim some of the choices and TOG even tells you how to do that on the "Loom". If you are worried about time to plan, just plan one unit at a time. I really don't do all of the pre-planning that many people talk about. I picked TOG because it's all done for me. The biggest planning I do is choosing my books. This only takes a few hours per unit. TOG really is well planned out and you definitely can pull it together in a short amount of time. It would be better to order your books after you have your year plan, so you can see what books are a priority. Also, feel free to substitute with other titles already on your shelves. TOG is a topic based program; it's not resource based. Therefore other resources work very well. I do agree with April that The Holman's Bible Atlas and the Norton Anthology are a must for the Rhetoric level Year 1. HTH, Leanna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 I have used both on an elementary level and will be sticking with MFW for highschool. My reason is much the same as what you listed as a concern: time to schedule and plan. I don't have that time. MFW does that for me. Both are good programs, just different and meeting the desires of different people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natalija Posted July 16, 2009 Author Share Posted July 16, 2009 Thank you ladies!! I am feeling a bit better about trying TOG, especially with not much time to prepare. Thank you April and Leanna for the advive. It gets so confusing...all these decisions...that it really helps when an experienced user can offer feedback and guidance. So all I have to add for English is grammar? Is there a guide for writing level placement for each child? Does anyone know how Writing Aids compares with IEW History-Based Writing? I was thinking about using the Ancient history book to tie in with the history topics but not sure how they compare. Can anyone tell me where to find the resource/booklist list on the website?? I downloaded the week 1 free sample and did not see it. Thanks so mcuh for taking the time to respond!! I really appreciate it!! God bless! Natalija Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natalija Posted July 16, 2009 Author Share Posted July 16, 2009 I forgot to ask... I know it varies according to how much you choose to do but what is the average daily (or weekly) time your high school student spends in the TOG subjects? Just trying to figure out how to get it all done....all the schoolwork and all the girls' music (including TONS of driving to lessons, practice, etc). Any ideas would be very much appreciated! Thank you and God bless! Natalija Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linda in NM Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Audio books, Natalija, audio books! We traveled a lot last year (played hockey in Phoenix; dad stayed in New Mexico), and we listened to audio books. We're returning to TOG after several years away, and we'll be using DE year 2 for my 15-yos. After using IEW for years, I think that Writing Aids will be just fine (I've reviewed the topics; we're going to use Grade 9, rather than 10, because that's what I want him to write this year :-)...also, we're planning on about 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 hours/day for all TOG subjects, with additional reading time at the beginning of the unit...we won't have as much travel time this year (yay!), but we'll still have some, so we'll be checking into audio books again... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natalija Posted July 16, 2009 Author Share Posted July 16, 2009 Thank you, Linda! My girls love audio books. The problem is Mom doesn't plan ahead to order them from the library!:tongue_smilie: It is nice to hear from someone in a similiar situation. We regularly drive over 300 miles per week/about 5 hours for now (on a weekday) and then an additional 7 hours every 3rd Saturday. Maybe more often in the future. We bought a laptop but dd13 gets car sick. The problem with lots of driving is that my girls, esp dd13 like to sleep so learning time is gone. But if I can get organized with the audio books, they will stay awake for that! Where do you get your audio books? Library? Download? I need to get a better plan going and find out how to utilize downloads. Thanks so much for the reminder! I need those!!:lol: Have a blessed day! Natalija Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natalija Posted July 16, 2009 Author Share Posted July 16, 2009 How do you juggle lthe 2 languages? Do you do that in the car also?? I want dd13 to finally learn some Latin but she wants to learn Russian. She seems to be good at languages so I think it could be doable if she could do some or most in the car. Do you like the programs you are using for the languages? Thanks again! Natalija Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linda in NM Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Um...I usually buy them...I figure his education is an investment and we only buy the "good ones..." also, that "My audio books" site looks interesting for books related to our history studies (thanks for posting that here!)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linda in NM Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 I love the programs we're using for languages--I studied classics in college, and I learned Latin, German, and French (starting in 3rd grade, actually). I'm more interested in having my son be able to speak German, so I do like the Learnables--Rosetta Stone is good, too (we've used it); just too complicated for me for set up...Learnables is "plug and play"--he uses the DVD on his laptop, and does the workbook independently. We play card games (sentence building) in German. I like the Latin program, too...started with Latin Prep, and it was the first Latin program that I could keep going with. Yes, there's quite a bit of grammar involved with Latin, and it's not the ordinary type we are used to (ablative case, for example), but it's easy enough to create review charts that match up with what he's doing. He doesn't seem to be confused--the way the two programs are taught are different enough, I think... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natalija Posted July 16, 2009 Author Share Posted July 16, 2009 Thanks again Linda! DVD on the laptop..plug in a play...sounds appealing to me! Was looking at Rosetta Stone but it is so expensive! I have heard conflicting reviews on it too. I will definitely look into the Learnables. Do you know anything about Geting Started with Latin? I was thinking about it as it is not time intensive. But is seems to be more of an intro to Latin. So as a 9th grader will only a little Latin (about half of LCI done) and not alot of time, what program would you recommend? We need an easy program with audio or dvd support as I don't know Latin. Can you give me an idea how much time your son puts in for his studies a day? I am trying to figure out how to fit about 4 hours of piano practice a day (for now) with her studies. Sorry for all the questions! God bless!! Natalija Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natalija Posted July 16, 2009 Author Share Posted July 16, 2009 Sorry....one more question!!! If dd13 does study Latin, would she not need to add in grammar to TOG? She completed R&S English 8 so she just needs to review. Thanks again! Natalija Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linda in NM Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Whew...:-) I really don't know of any other computer-based Latin programs...sorry...I've figured about six hours of study (which is probably high, since he tends to breeze through math and science...)...then, there might be additional reading in the evenings or on weekends, depending on the reading selection... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linda in NM Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 And, now, for the minority point of view (grin)...I wouldn't add any additional grammar work. You could do a Daily Grams type of thing if you wanted, but I personally believe that grammar is over-rated (ouch, zing, zap). I'm a professional editor (have been for upwards of 25 years--I'm a dinosaur) and, unless your daughter enjoys grammar (I, personally, am a grammar geek), I wouldn't worry about it. She's probably not going to become a professional writer, and the TOG writing stuff would give her enough preparation for college work (I know; I teach graduate students and moan and groan on a daily basis)... My two cents...I'm sure others will be horrified ;-> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natalija Posted July 16, 2009 Author Share Posted July 16, 2009 Thanks again, Linda! You have been so helpful!! I was thinking about the Analytical Grammar high school review..every 2 weeks kind of thing. She is forgetful so she needs some review. If it is in TOG already, then that is great! I just called the Learnables. And they actually have Russian! Level 1 is on CD-ROM also! The others are on cassette tape ,though. She said they don't focus on grammar, though. Besides the installation issues you mentioned, how does Rosetta Stone and the Learnables compare? Oh, I feel terrible asking you more questions! BUt I am actually getting somewhere FINALLY!!! I tend to go in circles and can't make up my mind. :lol: You and others here have beenso helpful!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you! Thank you!! Thank you!! God bless! Natalija Have a fabulous day and thanks again!! Natalija Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linda in NM Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Glad to hear I can help...I think that the Learnables progresses at a nice pace for a highschool course...very similar to Rosetta Stone, except that it doesn't emphasize pronunciation in the first year (as RS does). You could use that AG review--probably not a bad idea. She'll get plenty of grammar in Latin, too.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvaleri Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Natalija- I, too, am embarking on the TOG journey. So far I've read almost all the Intro on the Loom. It is very encouraging! Some helpful suggestions include jump in and begin using the curriculum, don't try to do all the assignments!, and you are expected to learn with your student (should you not have time to read the selections, teacher notes to the rescue :) I would strongly suggest IEW materials for your students writing. Their skills will improve dramatically. If you'd like to know more, please let me know :) Blessings, Teresa in NC You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy out of freedom. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is about the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. Dr. Adrian Rogers, 1931-2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natalija Posted July 16, 2009 Author Share Posted July 16, 2009 Thanks for your reply! Nice to hear you are emabarking on the same journey too! What grades will your kids be in? As for IEW, would you use the Ancient based history lessons instead of the Writing Aids that comes with TOG? WHat about doing another student intensive at a higher level? But that wouldn't weave in the history aspect into the writing. We did the Student Intensive 2 years ago and didn't get far in the history based writing lessons as the girls did an online writing class. Any feedback on the writing is appreciated! What are the differences you see between the two? I wish there was a service/someone to help with the writing...evaluating, grading, guiding their writing. It intimidates me and I don't feel well qualified!! Thanks, Teresa! God bless! Natalija Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leanna Tomlinson Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Thanks for your reply! I wish there was a service/someone to help with the writing...evaluating, grading, guiding their writing. It intimidates me and I don't feel well qualified!! Thanks, Teresa! God bless! Natalija There is an online writing program that supports TOG assignments. It's called "Write at Home". I haven't used it, but I learned about it on the TOG forum. HTH, Leanna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natalija Posted July 17, 2009 Author Share Posted July 17, 2009 Oh, my!! Thanks, Leanna, that is exciting!! Thanks so much for letting me know!!! I will go check it out right now!!:hurray: In Christ, Natalija Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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