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CLE math vs R&S math


WaterLily
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I started out posting on the high school board b/c I was asking about upper level maths and possibly doing Algebra with my soon-to-be 7th grader but now I have some related questions about K-8 math.

 

I think my ds (who completed R&S 6th) would probably do fine with Algebra next year, but I want to make sure he has a good solid foundation and I just feel like I might be rushing a little. Even if we wait, he could still do Algebra 1 (probably VT ?) in 8th grade which would be fine even if he's mathy, right?

 

So I might do R&S 7 or 8 this year....or.... I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm considering CLE (for all the kids)! I was doing some reading about it and checking out the website and it looks so appealing. I became a little concerned about how much isn't covered in R&S compared to CLE. I also like the workbook approach and the fact that it seems to be less teacher intensive (at least above grades 1 & 2?). I started having some guilt as I realized I don't do nearly as much with the R&S TMs as I probably should with my kids in the younger grades. It seems like that might not be as much of a problem with CLE. I'm only considering it at this point - and I'm just kind of frustrated with myself b/c I thought I had definitely settled on R&S for the younger grades. My concern with CLE is that it's spiral (right?) and I think I prefer the mastery of R&S....but now I feel like I'm running in circles b/c the fact that CLE covers more in earlier grades is part of what makes it spiral...yes?

 

Thanks for any input on this!

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I started out posting on the high school board b/c I was asking about upper level maths and possibly doing Algebra with my soon-to-be 7th grader but now I have some related questions about K-8 math.

 

I think my ds (who completed R&S 6th) would probably do fine with Algebra next year, but I want to make sure he has a good solid foundation and I just feel like I might be rushing a little. Even if we wait, he could still do Algebra 1 (probably VT ?) in 8th grade which would be fine even if he's mathy, right?

 

So I might do R&S 7 or 8 this year....or.... I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm considering CLE (for all the kids)! I was doing some reading about it and checking out the website and it looks so appealing. I became a little concerned about how much isn't covered in R&S compared to CLE. I also like the workbook approach and the fact that it seems to be less teacher intensive (at least above grades 1 & 2?). I started having some guilt as I realized I don't do nearly as much with the R&S TMs as I probably should with my kids in the younger grades. It seems like that might not be as much of a problem with CLE. I'm only considering it at this point - and I'm just kind of frustrated with myself b/c I thought I had definitely settled on R&S for the younger grades. My concern with CLE is that it's spiral (right?) and I think I prefer the mastery of R&S....but now I feel like I'm running in circles b/c the fact that CLE covers more in earlier grades is part of what makes it spiral...yes?

 

Thanks for any input on this!

 

Yes, it does introduce some concepts very early and that is exactly what makes it spiral. If you are interested in checking out the program you might want to print the placement test so that you can see how what skills are in each level and get a feel for the program. I was considering this program for a middle school friend but since decided that he would test too low into the program that it wasn't worth it. So although I like the program I don't recommend it for everyone.

 

My 2 daughters are going through the levels 3 and 4 and learning alot. I'm hoping it puts them in good shape by the time school starts in the fall.

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CLE *is* spiral, but what I do is limit how much repetition I expect Dot to do. When we started CLE, she was already counting to 100, telling time to the hour, adding & subtracting to twelve, and so on, so the 101 and 102 books have been a LOT of review for her. I've been having her work all of the lesson until about halfway through the book and then simply skipping the extra drillwork when it's obvious she doesn't need it.

 

My middle schoolers are both using 500 this year, one year below grade level for Wacko and two for Yacko, but the way the concepts are introduced to me is totally worth the "demotion." (Although, it's really not a demotion - CLE runs roughly 1-2 years ahead of public school.)

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Thanks for the link! I didn't realize you could get them in a pdf and print them! That's nice to know.

 

I checked out level 300 for my soon-to-be 4th grader, and level 600 for my soon-to-be 7th grader and there were definitely some things we haven't covered - more so in the 300 which tells me R&S does catch up a lot. Despite there being quite a few things we haven't done, the new things look reasonable and I think my kids could catch up pretty quickly. I think CLE looks awesome - I guess I just can't decide about the spiral vs mastery thing. I'm still prone to think mastery makes more "sense" so that's the catch for me right now I guess. Do kids really learn and retain with a spiral approach? I'm really having trouble with this one...

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For us, spiral is definately the way to go because the material is given in small enough "bites" (so to speak) that while the lesson may not be very long, they'll practice that little bite over and over again so that when the next "bite" is given, it builds on the last one. This is especially important for Yacko who tends to NOT retain mathematics without constant review.

 

For Dot, we have yet to come to anything she doesn't retain, but she's at that "sponge" stage in which she just absorbs EVERYTHING.

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Thanks! Any more input on this? I was all but sold on CLE but now I'm leaning towards sticking with R&S. My oldest ds would probably excel with pretty much any math we do so it's mostly my "youngers" that I'm thinking about. I think they'd love the workbooks but I wish I could know how they'd do with the "spiral" method...

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My daughter does get a little burnt out on some of the review, but we started her at the very beginning even though 95% of the material is review for her because I wanted her to get accustomed to the format, following directions, etc. Some things we just don't do, like the speed drills and going through the flash cards every day. I might have her do the flash cards twice a week, but she's known these facts for a year already. I don't have her do the speed drills because her writing speed really isn't there yet and I know she knows that material. We skip a lot of the "I Can Do It" addition and subtraction sections, because up until now, it's all been review. When I do make her do them, I explain to her she's learning to follow directions.

 

If a child obviously understands the material, there's no reason to go through all of the drill and review. Dot will often do two or more lessons a day, going through the material she knows quickly until she comes to a new skill.

 

Yacko will start using CLE math in September; he NEEDS all the drill. He tends to not retain his math, so an approach with built-in review is an absolutely necessity for him. How much of the drill we do for him with be based on how much he seems to need.

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...is that speed drills, extra review if needed, etc., is built in. One stop shopping. :-) (R&S has tests, worksheets, etc...but in separate books. With all these kids, I need to streamline as much as possible.)

 

I had two children use R&S through 7, and then start algebra, no problem. It's pretty comprehensive, if you go through 7 & 8...I would have no problem continuing with it, if it wasn't for CLE's ease of use (comparatively).

 

R&S does speed up, but their lower grades are rather slow, compared with others. That might be a big deal for some, but since we don't do a lot, formally, until 3rd grade, usually, that's actually been a plus. The kids can slowly ramp up.

 

I have no hesitations about recommending R&S to folks looking for a good, solid program to use up until Algebra. If mastery makes more sense for you, I haven't found much that matches it.

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More helpful input - much appreciated. I'm itching to switch and I don't know why! Interestingly, my 2 older boys feel very strongly about staying with R&S! Frankly, I was a little surprised. I mean they do well with it, but I thought they might find CLE somewhat (if not more) appealing. It isn't that they love doing R&S math - more that they are used to it and content with it I think. I showed them the CLE samples online but they are really wanting to stick with R&S. It's only my youngest ds, who is going into 1st, that said he'd like to try CLE. I really want to only use one math curriculum for everyone and I don't feel right switching everyone over based on my 6 year old's opinion lol! So I'm thinking about buying a light unit in each grade level for them to compare side by side with R&S....or maybe just leave it alone stay with R&S! :confused:

Edited by beccasboys
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FWIW, we were using ACE year before last for Yacko. At the HEAV convention that summer, he noticed the CLE booth and actually requested then to switch to it. He was getting ready to turn 12 at the time. While I have no experience with R&S, CLE is an amazing program and I am seriously kicking myself for not switching a year ago.

 

That said, the 100 level math is REALLY easy to administer, and takes very little time to do. I understand wanting everyone on the same page so to speak, but IMO there's no reason to make your younger do R&S because the olders want it any more than you'd make the olders do CLE just because the younger wants it.

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Well, why do you want everyone in the same math program? If you are itching to switch and your 6 year old is game, maybe it would make sense to try CLE with him.

 

My son is the same as your older boys. He likes R&S, even though he doesn't love math, and I know he wouldn't want to change, mostly because he likes to keep things the same. If I made him switch to another program, he would probably adjust to it and then not ever want to try anything else. That can be a good thing.

 

I couldn't decide on grammar this year and I showed him GWG, BJU (which is very colorful) and R&S. He picked R&S because he likes R&S math and said that if doesn't work out, we can try one of the others. After driving myself nuts trying to pick the perfect grammar program, I thought that was pretty sage advice.

 

Lisa

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Ya know, I think you ladies may have a point! Generally I really try to keep everyone "on the same page", just to keep it from getting too complicated for me. But since CLE is not supposed to be too teacher intensive (I understand it will be a little more so in 1st and 2nd than upper grades?), we may be able to do this. I think I might get CLE 100 for my 6 yo and let him try it out. Woohoo! I feel good about this - everyone will be happy! As long as it's not too much extra work for me, this should be fine. :)

 

Btw, I should add that when I say I'm itching to switch - I don't mean from R&S in general b/c we're unhappy with it in any way. I mean specifically to CLE b/c it got my attention. :)

 

Thanks!!!

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I do have to sit with DD for her entire lesson, but for her it's the social aspect of it, she strongly objects to being alone. Much of it she can do unassisted. That said, you may need to spend as much as 20 minutes on a lesson, but it's scripted for you. I have found it's easier to take five minutes or so and lay out everything I need before we start.

 

We bought the magnet letters that are recommeded to go with OPG, and since we use those on DD's easel, we use the small whiteboards that came with the set during her math lessons. It helps her visualize things if I write the different parts of what she is working on in different colors on the whiteboard.

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