Reading aloud to almost 4 and 2.5 year old

[lilbean05]

My almost 4 year old daughter can read quite well and she enjoys reading most anything she can to me, my husband, and even her brother. She seems to understand a good portion of what she is reading, especially in the easier books. We do this kind of reading off and on throughout the day.

 

Right before bed time, all of us go into one room, and either me or my husband will read a chapter out of a longer chapter book. We recently finished Alice in Wonderland and we have just startd Peter Pan, for example. It seems that whenever my husband and I read aloud, my eldest doesn't pay attention at all and there is absolutely no way she can begin to tell us what she heard. She daydreams or plays with her fingers and we might as well be the teacher in Charlie Brown (wah wah wahhh wah wahhhh).

 

So, my question I guess is that if there is a reason to even continue reading these kinds of books aloud, or should be just be reading the level 1 and 2 picture type books aloud to our kids? I am happy to keep reading the stories at night time, but in all honesty it is a bit frustrating when I ask my daughter even very simple questions or to tell me anything she remembers, and she has no idea what I am talking about.

[Guest]

I've tried reading chapter books to my son (new 4) a few times and we're just not quite there yet. I would rather shelve the books than squelch his love for reading. He does enjoy the Magic Tree House books, so we occasionally will do those, although I don't really care for them. I figure there's many years ahead for them to enjoy the longer books and preschool books are just so sweet. My son does enjoy books on CD and I sometimes get the longer ones and tell him it's bedtime - with or without the book on CD. Guess what he chooses? :D

[LivingUnderGrace]

I would continue, if it were *me*. :001_smile:

 

Many children this age cannot 'narrate' things back to you yet, it is a learned skill that takes time, and practice. Most likely a few years at best. You really will be surprised later if you persevere. And in the meantime you are filling her vocabulary!

 

Try asking her to tell you what she just heard after just a paragraph and see if that doesn't help.

[Ali in OR]

I don't think we were doing chapter books until closer to age 5. There are so many wonderful picture books out there that there is really no need to rush into chapter books. There are also books that are a little more accessible than Alice in Wonderland which I have trouble following as an adult! The 1000 Great Books list has a wonderful picture book section. We've also enjoyed books mentioned in Books That Build Character (I know we found Dogger from their list). If you want to stick with chapter books, a few that we found very engaging are My Father's Dragon, Little House in the Big Woods, and Mr. Popper's Penguins.

 

Here's the 1000 Good Books list if you're not familiar with it:

http://www.classical-homeschooling.org/celoop/1000.html

[Terabith]

Stop the chapter books. They aren't old enough or interested. I would go for more advanced picture books first. But even simpler picture books are fine.

 

They have the rest of their life to read chapter books. But there are SOOOO many good picture books, and after about age 5 or 6, they wont get regular exposure to them.

[Chris in VA]

Peter Pan is actually quite sophistocated, as is Alice in Wonderland.

I'd go with something simpler. You can read from chapter books, but choose simpler ones, and pause to rephrase if you notice her eyes glazing over. I love the rich language one finds in excellent children's literature, so I do agree with reading "over their heads" a bit, but you still want them to enjoy the story.

[lisabees]

I also think that Alice in Wonderland is too complicated for a child that young. There are incredible picture books and short chapter books that my children have loved.

 

Some short novels we have enjoyed recently:

 

Catwings

Gooney Bird Greene

Wolf Story

My Father's Dragon

The Animal Family

The Stories Julian Tells

Thimbleberry Stories

Beatrix Potter

 

Planned for the upcoming months:

 

The Tale of Despereaux

Chocolate Fever

The Family Under the Bridge

Owls in the Family

A Lion to Guard Us

The Reluctant Dragon

Poppy series by Avi

 

Others you might try if they become experienced listeners:

 

The Mouse and the Motorcycle and the Ramona series

Charlotte's Web or Stuart Little

James and the Giant Peach

 

You could try Stone Fox, one of my favorites. But because of a death at the end, it can be tragic. I always need to build my courage before reading this one.

 

Check out my favorite reference book, "The Read Aloud Handbook" by Jim Trelease. It will give you great ideas age by age.

 

HTH!

 

Lisa

[Mom22ns]

Peter Pan and Alice in Wonderland - WOW! Those are way beyond most 4 yos. Keep reading but make it things she can enjoy. As others have said, there are more picture books than you can possibly get through before she will be too old to want them. In a few years you will look at those picture books and long for the days when the children still loved and benefitted from them. Don't rush away from them now.

 

It is difficult for a child to carry a story in their mind from day to day. When you do go to chapter books, start with simple ones with characters your daughter will relate to. Little House books or Charlotte's Web for example with little girls that she can understand will be easier for her to step up to.

[lisabees]

Adding to my list, as I found Trelease's favorite k-garten books (in addition to the ones I listed):

 

Two Times the Fun by Beverly Cleary

Chibi: A True Story from Japan by Brenner and Takaya

Junie B Jones series (haven't read one of these; my dd would probably love it)

The Chalk Box Kid by Clyde Robert Bulla

Magic Tree House series (I forgot about these - great way to begin listening)

The Water Horse by Dick King-Smith

 

Also, Patricia Polacco has some very wonderul picture books.

[lilbean05]

Thank you all so much for your replies and great suggestions. I guess we were/are having a hard time because my daughter can read the Magic Tree House books, The Little, The Borrowers, etc. to us. When we try to read those books aloud to her, she get a bit peeved because SHE wants to read them to us. So, we went for what we thought was the next step up in classic literature, hoping that she would pick out the words she knew and who knows how she is processing the rest, but she seems bored by them, hahaha. We still do the pictures books during the day, and I suppose we might have her still read the chapter books to us also, but I am not sure about the more advanced reading aloud at night. I will look through the lists you have suggested--I am sure I will find something that falls inbetween beginningish chapter books and the hard core classics we have been using. But, maybe she is getting something from the more difficult reading even though she has no idea how to articulate herself. My son, on the other hand, is so happy to listen to anything anyone wants to read! So much easier...hahaha.

[musicianmom]

I have an advanced 4-year-old too, and I wouldn't read those books to her yet. Neither would I ask for narrations from her yet. We did read a few chapters from "A Little Princess" and she listened, but she didn't get into it all that much.

 

It sounds as though you're going through the same thing I am with an early reader. Conventional wisdom says that the read-alouds should be on a higher level than the child is reading for herself. But with an early fluent reader, the only way to go to a higher level is to go over her head! My daughter is at the point where she LOVES Winnie-the-Pooh stories. She is starting to get some of the humor, and it's a perfect read-aloud for her. However, she is perfectly capable of reading it herself too. So we do some of both. Same with Beatrix Potter's stories, which are terrific for introducing a higher level of language while still offering short stories with pictures.

 

Anyway, I'm not pushing for chapter books yet. I'm saving that for whenever we start Ambleside Year 1 (at either 5 or 6, depending on her maturity).

[zaichiki]

So, my question I guess is that if there is a reason to even continue reading these kinds of books aloud, or should be just be reading the level 1 and 2 picture type books aloud to our kids? I am happy to keep reading the stories at night time, but in all honesty it is a bit frustrating when I ask my daughter even very simple questions or to tell me anything she remembers, and she has no idea what I am talking about.

 

Regardless of individual reading level, I try to read aloud only those books which captivate my young children. I want to make sure read aloud time continues to build only positive memories. As they get older, some of their "school" books may be less interesting, but even then, if they cannot answer questions and cannot pay attention to the story, I assume it is "over their head" and I will search out another book on the topic.

 

My oldest was reading chapter books at 5 (not as young as your dd, but he did enjoy reading on his own for pleasure). He could listen aloud to some chapter books, but not all would have a story he could follow. I remember putting The Apple and The Arrow away after the first 10 pages. He just couldn't pay attention to the story for whatever reason. Maybe the content just didn't interest him enough to put forth the extra effort needed to follow the plot? I don't know. Two years later he sat down and read the same book cover to cover several times in one week. He obviously got a lot more out of it then.

 

My current 3 year old will sometimes listen in on his older siblings' read alouds. I don't expect it of him, and he'll often be playing while we're reading, but he will listen to chapter books. He must understand some of it, because he makes comments about the books later in the day. Sometimes he'll even answer questions I ask the older two. The other day, as I was walking down the stairs with him, he announced that "the Justin Morgan horse could run faster AND pull heavier things than the other horses, so he's better even though he's small." (He actually said that without all the s sounds. Ha. He substitutes f and p instead.)

 

When I read aloud to the 3 yr old, we usually choose Dr. Seuss and Richard Scarry, with a smattering of ABC books, Curious George, and Berenstain Bears, or whatever else is on the shelf. He also likes the Family Treasury of Little Golden Books for bedtime stories.'

 

Check out Sonlight's P3/4 and P4/5 level cores for ideas of GREAT picture books not to be missed! :) Many of them are available at the library.

http://www.sonlight.com/read-alouds-p-4-5.html Scroll down and click on individual items to see a listing by title and photos of the covers.

Edited July 10, 2009 by zaichiki
wanted to add a link

[Guest]

I just remembered this thread I posted from awhile back; it gives some good books for transitioning from picture to chapter books, maybe you'll find something that would fit you guys.

[skaterbabs]

I tried Alice, Peter Pan and Little Princess with Dot; she liked Little Princess, but struggled with sitting through it. We recently watched part of the Sci Fi series "Tin Man" with the kids, and she was fascinated with Dorothy and the others, so I pulled out my copy of Wizard of Oz and she's completely absorbed -to the point that we read two chapters while waiting for the fireworks to start on the Fourth!

[Terabith]

You know, I think with her listening skills, I would take a step BACKWARDS.

 

I know that sounds very counter-intuitive. You see your 4 year old reading Magic Tree House, and you think you need to take your read alouds to the next level.

 

But, despite the fact that they are chapter books, Magic Tree House and other transitional chapter series books have a comparatively lower reading level. There is a great deal of similarity in the structure of each book.

 

But, classic children's picture books actually tend to be written at a much *higher* reading level. Sylvester and the Magic Pebble is at something like a fifth grade reading level. Many very very high quality picture books have a great deal of literary merit, complex characters, theme, vocabulary....... In terms of comprehension skills required, they are on a far higher level than most series books. And they should NOT be missed. Your four yr old won't feel foolish reading or listening to Peter Pan at ten or twelve. They likely would find Peter Rabbit somewhat babyish at that point.

 

Transitional chapter books are awesome. But their primary goal is in terms of building fluency and confidence in regards to *reading* skills. I'm reading the first few Magic Treehouse books aloud to my kids bc my 5.5 yr old is at the point where she could start reading them, but she is intimidated by chapter books. I'm hoping to whet her interest. But I am also reading high quality picture books, and will continue to do so afterwards.

 

Also, don't forget nonfiction. Look at the book lists from Five in a Row and Before Five in a Row. (If you're so inclined, that would make an excellent curriculum resource, too.) Look at the Sonlight prek selections. Look at Honey for a Child's Heart, and the Read Aloud Handbook, and Great Books for Girls. Look at classic folk and fairy tales. Caldecott winners. There are SO MANY wonderful, truly wonderful good picture books, and we don't tend to take them seriously as literature. We always want to push on to the next thing, the higher level, for both our children and ourselves. I just want to encourage you not to do that. Camping out at this "lower" level will help her comprehension. It'll teach her about lots of good literature words "character, plot, climax, mood..." And it will feed her soul.

 

Reread often. Take a break and then revisit them again. Don't push for narrations, but "wonder" about stories in relationship to play. "I wonder if you wanted to be Peter, and I could be Mr. MacGregor and I could chase you around the garden with my hoe? Would that be fun?"

[BlsdMama]

Out of curiousity - can she narrate what SHE reads? If she read you a chapter, could she, halfway through, give you a synopsis?

 

And my other question is - can she narrate a simple picture book.

 

IMO, there's nothing wrong with a child (even a 4yo) hearing good literature read aloud. They DO get a feel for the words and the storyline. We had great fun with Peter Pan... and yes, my 4yo and 5yo listened along. They LOVED Charlotte's Web though. ;)

 

That said, I WOULD work on her narration skills. I think a chapter is far too long of a reading for a child to narrate back. A page would be more appropriate and not expecting a huge amount of detail from a 4yo. If you find a page is too long, what about 1/2 page, or 3-5 sentences? Whatever it takes to attune her mind to listening to the words. You might find she can listen better having an object in her hands as well. It's strange, but I have one child who listens better when his hands are actively involved in something.

[2_girls_mommy]

I have an advanced reader like yours, but she always had a great focus and was very attentive during stories. I also have an almost 5 yr. old who is not reading.

I agree with the others who have said go back to reading shorter books to work on narration and focus. My dd6 can read anything, but that doesn't stop me from reading outloud daily to her from all kinds of books including picture books. If your older dd says she wants to read it, or she doesn't want you to read it you could always tell her you are reading it to the younger one. Then make it lots of fun, and ask the younger one questions about the pictures and the story. In my house that would definitely draw the other one in. All I have to do is start reading aloud and everyone comes near around here :)

We read things out loud constantly that my 6 yr old could read herself. Sometimes I will have her read aloud too at bedtime, then it is my turn.

Examples of what we are reading: I am reading Stuart Little aloud a chapter at a time. DD6 already read it, but she still listens in. She can ask questions about words she didn't get that way, and hear the way they should sound. We are reading from What Your 2nd grader needs to know about Insects. So I read a section of that and other picture books about insects. We have a book of Bedtime Stories that are just sweet moral stories that we read from often too. Last night dh did read a chapter of Peter Pan aloud and dd6 was very intrigued. We may finish that, but she is almost 7. I am not too sure my 4 yr old liked it as much. Anyway, just some ideas.. Try several shorter books at a time and work on narration (or at her age, leading questions) with those maybe.

[skaterbabs]

I agree about the picture books. Check your local library for good ones. A while back one of the picture books I read Dot was a book about an emperor and a fairy, and the vocabulary in the book included words like "irridescent". Definately NOT a baby book, but high-interest for my 3rd grade-ish reading level kindergarden-age daughter.

 

There are some amazing bios in picture book form as well. "Before John Was a Jazz Giant" is one we really enjoyed. (I suggest having a sample of his music on hand first though - we ended up having to buy a cople of his songs from iTunes for Dot! LOL) "Isabella Dances" is another one, about a turn-of-the-century dancer. "Revolutionary Dames" (I think that's the title) is about women during the American revolution, and Dot enjoyed that one so much it's on our list to buy when we have the extra funds available.

[FairProspects]

I think she is still listening. We read loads of chapter books, we began when my son was 4 (he turns 5 this month) and he cannot narrate back to you what happens in a book, but if you pay attention you can frequently catch him laughing at a joke, or acting out the story the next day with his toys. I agree that Peter Pan and Alice in Wonderland might have been a bit too difficult for this age, but I wouldn't give up on chapter books, maybe just go with a bit smaller chapter books. Charlotte's Web & Winnie-the-Pooh, maybe the Boxcar children (which DS is loving right now) are excellent suggestions as previous posters have mentioned.

 

I actually think this is one of the hardest listening levels for which to select books. The attention span is there, but the material needs to be very simple, about everday life, to fit within a 4-5 year old's range of experience. We are right there with you!

[lilbean05]

Thank you again for such great responses! You are right in that it FEELS like we need to do the read alouds at a higher level than that which she can read by herself, but you have all shown me that that isn't the case. It sounds like there are a whole lot of picture books that I didn't even know about that we need look into! It seems when we just go browsing at the library, we come across a lot of junk books, but I will sit down tonight with the lists you have given me (I got the Read Aloud Handbook from the library to look through tonight too) and see what sorts of things we can find. Yay for being a first time mom to a 4 year old and getting some great advice from those of you who have been there, done that, and have the T-shirt!!

[kalanamak]

The most complex book we did at that age was My Father's Dragon. About a 100 times. Luckily I remember MY father reading it to me, and it is lovely.

 

At that age we also did Char's Web on audiobook. Kiddo played and listened so many times he started to use words from it. The other one he listened to day in and day out was Tantoo Cardinal's reading of Island of the Blue Dolphin.

[lisabees]

I remember reading Stone Fox to my 6 and 9 year old ds's. My third ds, who was three at the time, would play as I read. It was the first time I had ever read the book. If you're familiar with the ending, you know it's tragic. I was crying my eyes out and threw the book on the ground.

 

Wouldn't you know my 3 year old was listening and would share the entire story to strangers for weeks. Of course, he never left out the part with me crying and throwing the book on the floor!!!

[NicoleA]

Some shorter chapter books that my almost-five-year-old son has enjoyed are:

Anna, Grandpa, and the Big Storm by Charla Stevens

Freckle Juice by Judy Blume

Chocolate Fever by Robert Kimmel Smith

Lotta on Troublemaker Street and The Children of Troublemaker Street, by Astrid Lindgren

 

We've just started a (so-far wonderful) book called You're a Bad Man, Mr. Gum! by Andy Stanton

 

There are also some nice abridged versions of classic books illustrated by Susan Jeffers -- Black Beauty and Lassie Come-Home come to mind.

 

There's also a great abridged Wind in the Willows illustrated by Inga Moore.

 

We read LOTS of picture books too. You don't need to do either/or. I tend to read quite a few picture books, a chapter or two from the chapter book, and wrap things up with some poems. We do tend to like chapter books that are heavily illustrated.

[mamamace]

My two little ones enjoy FIAR books, and Little House on the Prairie was a big hit! They loved hearing about life on the frontier, the Indians, and going to town. Charlotte Mason doesn't recommend narration until age 6 so I am making sure I don't push too much. Better late than early...

[LanaTron]

There is some truly amazing artwork in the good ones. That is often how I try to pick them...based on the art. If it is particularly interesting, I point it out to my dc, and maybe even talk a little about how the art was made (what media, etc.) which is often explained in the back of the books. Usually, just stuff like, "wow, this is really beautiful." Or, "look at how they used ink and watercolor paint together." Whether or not my dc really understand what I'm talking about right away, they will be getting some terminology and learning a little art appreciation, too.

[Orthodox6]

Don't pass up this opportunity of reading the many, many marvellous books for young children ! We have a very large collection of "permanent keepers" from this book level. They just are not to be missed ! The "older child" chapter books still will be there when your children are ready for them. Now is your chance to revel in the books by Robert McCloskey, Sandra Boynton, James Marshall, and ever so many additional wonderful children's authors. My oldest sons (22 and 20) remember these books with great affection.

[EKS]

If you are reading unabridged/unadapted versions of Alice in Wonderland and Peter Pan, the problem is likely that the material is too sophisticated for her and she is bored and tunes out because it isn't making sense. You need to find books that will interest her. Winnie the Pooh is an example of a book that uses fairly complex language but might be more accessible to your daughter. And don't dismiss picture books. Many of them contain complex language but the plots and pictures make them interesting to a younger crowd.

 

I think there is a middle ground--it isn't either read sophisticated chapter books OR level 1 and 2 picture books. There are plenty of picture books that are beyond the level 1 and 2 books (and I would suggest that you save the leveled books for her to read herself anyway) and there are plenty of chapter books that would be far more accessible to your daughter than Alice in Wonderland.

 

ETA: The children would also probably do better with separate reading times. There is a world of difference between what a 4yo can comprehend and what is appropriate for a 2yo. A 4yo has, after all, lived twice as long as a 2yo.

Edited July 14, 2009 by EKS

[stripe]

If you are reading unabridged/unadapted versions of Alice in Wonderland and Peter Pan, the problem is likely that the material is too sophisticated for her and she is bored and tunes out because it isn't making sense. You need to find books that will interest her.

I completely agree. I tried Alice in Wonderland a while ago, with my 5 year old, and it went nowhere, so I shelved it, with no hard feelings. Alice in Wonderland is complex stuff!

 

I had tried Winnie the Pooh last year, and there was no interest; this year, they loved it. I tried Wind in the Willows -- also too complex.

 

There are tons of wonderful books written at a level that a 4 and 2 year old can comprehend, that are much more interesting than "Dick and Jane" and "Spot" books. I honestly feel that some simple books teach very important things; read Lobel's Grasshopper on the Road and tell me you don't get something out of it. Frog and Toad and Little Bear books are a gentle transition to chapter books, with nice stories. (Also Upstairs Mouse, Downstairs Mole by Wong Herbert Yee.) I found that funnier, lighter books interested them. A few months back we enjoyed Pippi Longstocking translated by Tiina Nunnally, and it was a big hit. Dick King-Smith's animal books are short and snappy, and well-written as well.

[Aurelia]

My daughter has really enjoyed The Milly-Molly-Mandy Storybook and Raggedy Ann Stories, they are older/classic stories that are definitely more age appropriate than Alice or Peter Pan. (I've bought them and have them on the shelf for a few years from now, though.) She also loves books by Roald Dahl, we're reading James and the Giant Peach right now, and can actually narrate to me what happened in the story the previous night because she is really interested in the story. Chapter books with a few pictures definitely hold her interest more than a book with nothing but words. She also loves picture books, and some of them (our favorites are illustrated by Paul O. Zelinsky or K.Y. Craft) are just gorgeous. As a child, even after I learned to read, I loved to page through picture books with beautiful illustrations. It's only of the only times I got to touch "real" art.

[stripe]

I second Milly-Molly-Mandy (I thought I suggested that -- must have been another thread). Also Paddington books, Alfie books by Shirley Hughes, and Beatrix Potter (Peter Rabbit and all the rest). They are all basically about real life from a childlike perspective that I think young kids relate to easily, but written well.

[MIch elle]

Peter Pan is actually quite sophistocated, as is Alice in Wonderland.

I'd go with something simpler. You can read from chapter books, but choose simpler ones, and pause to rephrase if you notice her eyes glazing over. I love the rich language one finds in excellent children's literature, so I do agree with reading "over their heads" a bit, but you still want them to enjoy the story.

 

 

Winnie the Pooh and other short chapter books with pictures.

 

:iagree:

[stripe]

My children have learned to use "whom" correctly from Peter Rabbit ("Round the end of the cucumber frame, whom should he meet .... but Mr MacGregor!").