Help! I need phonics/grammar ideas for 2nd grader...

[TMarie]

My 8 year old ds will be repeating 2nd grade this coming year. We just can't move on with his delay in reading skills. Now I know we should have started him a year later in K.

 

We have and continue to slowly trudge through The Ordinary Parents Guide. He just doesn't get sounding out phonics; we're on about lesson #40. Explode the code doesn't really give much success, and we are stalled out about half way through book #1.

 

At the same time we've been working on theOPG, we've gone through most of 1st grade R&S reading. He felt real success in reading as he memorized words through the R&S sight-word based methods. We cannot continue with R&S because it progresses much too quickly.

Now what?

 

I think maybe a colorful workbook would be helpful for him. He'd need to start back on 1st grade level.

 

As for grammar: we've tried FLL but he just does not retain any information orally; after trying it several times over 2 years he has no idea what a noun is. We tried language lessons by Queen homeschool, again too oral with no retention. Hence, the need to just start at the beginning.

 

Please help!

Edited July 10, 2009 by TMarie

[Terabith]

MCP Plaid Phonics might be a good choice for colorful. What about trying him on Headsprout? Would he respond well to a computer program?

 

However, I would be concerned about the lack of progress he has made with his reading skills. Have you considered the possibility of a learning disability? I would look into having him evaluated by a developmental optometrist (http://www.covd.org). It might be interesting to do the phonemic awareness assessment from http://www.bartonreading.com.

 

Other thoughts on programs you might look into: ABeCeDarian, reading along through the I See Sam books. All About Spelling might be a good supplement. And I would consider doing the first level of Barton, if his phonemic awareness is poor. If ABeCeDarian/ Reading Reflex doesn't make a pretty dramatic difference pretty quickly, an Orton Gillingham program might be the way to go.

[Ellie]

My 8 year old ds will be repeating 2nd grade this coming year. We just can't move on with his delay in reading skills. Now I know we should have started him a year later in K.

 

We have and continue to slowly trudge through The Ordinary Parents Guide. He just doesn't get sounding out phonics; we're on about lesson #40. We cannot continue with R&S because it progresses much too quickly. Explode the code doesn't really give much success, and we are stalled out about half way through book #1.

 

At the same time we've been working on TOPG, we've gone through most of 1st grade R&S reading. He felt real success in reading as he memorized words through the R&S sight-word based methods.

Now what?

 

I think maybe a colorful workbook would be helpful for him. He'd need to start back on 1st grade level.

 

As for grammar: we've tried FLL but he just does not retain any information orally; after trying it several times over 2 years he has no idea what a noun is. We tried language lessons by Queen homeschool, again too oral with no retention. Hence, the need to just start at the beginning.

 

Please help!

IMHO, instead of saying that you're "holding him back," it would be better to do something intensive like Spalding (Writing Road to Reading) instead of OPGTR or R&S (that he isn't clicking with OPGTR does not mean that he doesn't understand phonics; it's that that particular method is not a good fit); it doesn't really have a grade level, and it will cover spelling, reading, capitalization and punctuation, and basic writing, and believe me when I tell you that he will be up to and past his age level in no time. I'll bet he can easily do 3rd grade-level science and history (which really don't have grade levels anyway) and math.

 

There's no point in holding him back just because his reading skills aren't as advanced as you think they should be. He'll catch up.

[Lovedtodeath]

Instead of MCP Plaid Phonics, I would go with McRuffy. They sound similar, but MCP Plaid isn't designed for homeschooling from what I understand.

 

The people at the Orton-Gillingham website have written to me with recommendations, and since their products are the pre-cursor to the Spalding method, and because their products are very successful for students with dyslexics, I would really look into them.

 

Sensational Strategies for Teaching Beginning Readers™

or less expensive:

Recipe for Reading Recipe for Reading Workbooks

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showpost.php?p=807429&postcount=22 You might look at the posts in this thread after this link as well. There are some samples and videos of the OG method.

Edited July 10, 2009 by Lovedtodeath

[Mom-ninja.]

I'll second the recommendation for Reading Reflex/ABeCeDarian. We've been using it for three months, and there has been a big leap for ds.

[mktyler]

His facility with sight words is hampering his ability to decode. He wants the rest of reading to be as simple as memorizing. Unfortunately, this strategy will only derail him as he progresses.

 

I would suggest dropping all sight word work until he is comfortable at sounding out words. Use a notched card, a 3x5 or business card with a square cut out of the top left corner. Uncover a letter at a time. If the letters work together, as in 'sh' for /sh/, uncover both letters. As you uncover each letter, have him say the sound. When the whole word is uncovered he can blend the sounds together.

 

While OPG is a thorough program, for many it is not easy to use due to layout. You might try Abecedarian, Reading Reflex, or the I See Sam books.

Alternatively, you could get his word decoding working well and then jump back into OPG.

 

Hope that helps,

Melissa

Minnesota

Reading Program Junkie

dd(11) dd(7) ds(5) ds(1)

[kckamy]

The phonics program that I used for all three of my children was Hooked on Phonics. I totally loved this program and highly recommend it! My children are now 9, 13, and 16 so HOP has changed some over the years.

 

I found the set that we used on Amazon Marketplace: http://www.amazon.com/Hooked-Phonics-Learn-K-2nd-Deluxe/dp/193102040X/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1247232946&sr=8-10

I paid $199 + shipping back in 1998 so this is a pretty good price.

 

My set came with cassette tapes instead of the CD's, which we did not use. I went through the entire program one-on-one with each child. For additional reading we also used BOB books.

 

I liked that this was just a reading program (not combined with writing, etc.) You can really focus on phonics and reading. The other thing I liked was that you are starting with the vowel and ending sound and then adding the first letter/letters. For example: a + t = at and then c + at = cat, a + ck = ack then st + ack = stack. This seems to be easier for a child to sound out than c + a = ca.

 

Also, there aren't any words that your child hasn't learned when you get to a workbook story or one of the HOP books. This helps the child not get overwhelmed and it also makes them more confident in their reading.

 

My children are all good spellers as well and I have to think that this is partly because of the way that HOP is layed out.

 

Amy

[Lovedtodeath]

You might try Elizabeth B's resources. I will link you in a bit. I wouldn't worry about grammar until you get reading taken care of. You can start later, no problem. Just don't wait until high school!

 

Elizabeth's remedial students: my free online phonics lessons + Webster's Speller

 

Joint Phonics Blog w/ Don Potter.

Edited July 10, 2009 by Lovedtodeath

[TMarie]

Thanks for the ideas ~ I really appreciate the input!

 

Any other thoughts?

 

.... Have you considered the possibility of a learning disability?

Yes, I've had him evaluated by the public school system, but they haven't identified any specific problem, only saying he is delayed. When we get back to the states I do plan on having him privately evaluated, but not sure what type of therapist he should see. I do know he has delays with receptive and communicative speech.

 

His facility with sight words is hampering his ability to decode....

Actually, this is backwards... and I don't really understand what he is thinking.... he knows all his letter sounds and can sound out a word in a very choppy disconnected way... "c...a....t," but then he just can't put those sounds together into a word "cat."

 

After 2 1/2 years of phonics he was becoming very self-aware and discouraged that he could not read. I started the R&S mid-year and it gave him a great sense of accomplishment. I don't plan to continue with sight-words, but he needed to know that he is smart & capable of reading.

 

As for Reading Reflex, I've heard that recommendation before. I just wonder if he can handle additional letter sounds if he can't even master the short-letter sounds and 3 letter words. Any thoughts on that?

 

The people at the Orton-Gillingham website have written to me with recommendations, and since their products are the pre-cursor to the Spalding method, and because their products are very successful for students with dyslexics, I would really look into them.

Can you tell me more about these methods? How do they differ from phonics as taught by TOGTR, or Explode the Code? (I've taught 2 children to read using these resources along with simple readers - so I understand them and would like to relate other methods to them.)

 

You might try Elizabeth B's resources. I will link you in a bit. I wouldn't worry about grammar until you get reading taken care of. You can start later, no problem. Just don't wait until high school!

 

Elizabeth's remedial students: my free online phonics lessons + Webster's Speller

 

Joint Phonics Blog w/ Don Potter.

Wow! This looks like a great website. I haven't watched the "phonics intro movie" yet, but do plan on it. Does her methods of teaching phonics differ from TOPG?

Edited July 11, 2009 by TMarie

[Terabith]

How delayed are his receptive and communicative language skills? Have they always been delayed?

 

When you have the opportunity, I would push for an evaluation by a pediatric neuropsychologist.

 

Does he have any other difficulties?

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

By Lovedtodeath You might try Elizabeth B's resources. I will link you in a bit. I wouldn't worry about grammar until you get reading taken care of. You can start later, no problem. Just don't wait until high school!

 

Elizabeth's remedial students: my free online phonics lessons + Webster's Speller

 

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

I also recommend having ds watch Between the Lions from PBS on a daily basis:). DVDs can be had at the library. PBS has several reading shows such as Super Why, Word Girl, and Electric Company as well.

 

I also recommend Starfall.com which is a free phonics/reading program online. I would have ds start from beginning even if it seems easy. I would let him spend 1/2 hour daily on this as well.

 

I also like Rock N Learn Phonics as a supplement which might be found at your library.

 

Lastly, I would turn on Closed Captioning on TV:)

 

I think using multiple phonic approaches with the shows, computer, and book work might be a good approach.:)

 

Just my 2 cents.:)

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

One other suggestion is Click N Kids Phonics or Explode the Code Online programs that can be purchased from Homeschool Buyers Co-op:)

[mktyler]

A couple of questions . . .

 

Can he put two sounds together? Could he smoothly say /ca/ or /pe/ if he sees 'ca' and 'pe'?

 

Does he have trouble saying the sounds? If you had a list of letters, can he say the sounds for the letters quickly or does he need to think about it still?

 

I am not familiar with R&S reading instruction, so this may not be relevant, but can he recognize the words he reads in their materials outside of the context of their materials? Could he read the same sentences or words without the picture clues?

 

Does he struggle with finding words for things in general? Or have memory issues in general?

 

Melissa

Minnesota

Reading Program Junkie

dd(11) dd(7) ds(5) ds(1)

Edited July 11, 2009 by mktyler

[skaterbabs]

I'd suggest a combination of www.starfall.com and the Between the Lions show on PBS (you can get the series on DVD I believe, and youtube has examples of the songs and so forth.)

 

My daughter taught herself to read using these two resources, and she still simply enjoys using them even though she's reading on a 3rd grade level now.

[Mom-ninja.]

 

Actually, this is backwards... and I don't really understand what he is thinking.... he knows all his letter sounds and can sound out a word in a very choppy disconnected way... "c...a....t," but then he just can't put those sounds together into a word "cat."

 

After 2 1/2 years of phonics he was becoming very self-aware and discouraged that he could not read. I started the R&S mid-year and it gave him a great sense of accomplishment. I don't plan to continue with sight-words, but he needed to know that he is smart & capable of reading.

 

As for Reading Reflex, I've heard that recommendation before. I just wonder if he can handle additional letter sounds if he can't even master the short-letter sounds and 3 letter words. Any thoughts on that?

 

 

 

This sounds just like my oldest ds. After three years of phonics he was still struggling with simple CVC words. He was painfully sounding them out, and had problems blending. At the age of 8 he was aware that he was "behind" because his 5 year old brother was reading better. I started Reading Reflex with him, and we worked through it slowly making sure to really go over the basics. I then found ABeCeDarian, which is mostly based on Reading Reflex, but the work is done for you, and his reading skills have exploded. I am simply amazed at his progress. He's evaluator was amazed as well. Maybe it was just the timing, but something clicked in his brain. I think one of the best excercises we did was segmenting words. It really helped him figure how blending works. He now reads at a higher level than my 5 year old. So he was behind his brother, and now is ahead. This took place just this past May. So in two months he jumped ahead by over a year.

 

Elizabeth and Melissa have been a great resource for me. :001_smile: I've used some of their suggestions along with ABCD.

[Lovedtodeath]

 

Lastly, I would turn on Closed Captioning on TV:)

:iagree:I really think that CC has made a big difference for DD.

[Lovedtodeath]

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showpost.php?p=807429&postcount=22 You might look at the posts in this thread after this link as well. There are some samples and videos of the OG method.

 

http://www.ortongillingham.com/frmQuestionAnswer.aspx Here is more information. The OG method is a multisensory approach and was first designed with dyslexics and those struggling to read in mind. It is much more involved than OPGTR. You can look at the links in the above thread to see videos of the OG method in action, and click on the links on the left side for more information. And don't forget that you can contact OG as well.

 

I would try Elizabeth B's resources first. She has tutored reading skills for those struggling and gotten them up 2 grade levels in a few weeks. The approach of using the syllabry builds confidence quickly because they can start sounding out long multisyllable words right away.

[Lovedtodeath]

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107277

 

lots more on OG programs in this thread.

[siloam]

Can he spell? If he is having problems with blending, but can spell then I would go with spelling program that emphasizes phonics. That way it doesn't hold him back, yet still gives him the time he needs to learn to blend.

 

All About Spelling would be my first recommendation, but Spell to Write and Read, The Writing Road to Reading and the Phonics Road will also do the same thing.

 

My 2nd dd could spell for a year before she could blend. It did eventually click though.

 

Heather

[LisaS]

Among the wealth of information you've received, you may want to check out this website. She has info specifically for the struggling learner. We've used the struggling writer information with some success.

 

http://www.diannecraft.com/

 

Good Luck.

[LivingUnderGrace]

I would only add that that *I* would drop any grammar until his base in phonics is up to par. ;) That would be priority here.

[Lovedtodeath]

I really think this quote helps:

SWR and WRTR are not O-G programs. They are based on the method (teaching the phonograms and rules) but I found that it was not incremental enough to work for my dyslexic boys. Wasn't WRTR adapted for the instruction of non-dyslexic dc?

 

ETA: I am going to try and explain the problem. Take my 8yo, for example. He knows all the sounds that the first 26 phonograms make, but he struggles and struggles with actual reading. He is truly dyslexic and it extends to math and writing as well. We did SWR with my oldest ds (and I looked at WRTR and there is very little difference) - it incorporated too many rules at one time. He needs to overlearn one rule before moving on to the next. My 6yo is still trying to learn the phonogram sounds - the 4 a day recommended by WRTR and SWR is not even close to being realistic (it takes him weeks to learn one.)

 

AAS is truly an OG based spelling program, more incremental than WRTR and SWR. Sensational Beginnings and Recipe for Reading are OG based reading programs. HTH.

[AngieW in Texas]

It's good that you've done an evaluation, but disappointing that the only answer you got was "delayed". That doesn't really help. Do you have test scores for WISC IV, WJ III, WIAT, CTOPP? Those can help a lot in figuring out where the difficulties lie.

 

My dd could sound out and even spell basic code words (much better at spelling), but couldn't blend the sounds together to get the words until after vision therapy. She had to work so hard at seeing the letters that she forgot the sounds that she said as soon as she tried to work on the next letter. If I gave her three sounds, she could blend them into the word with no problems. She could even blend up to 5 sounds at a time, as long as I gave her the sounds.

 

The program that helped my dd the most was Headsprout. It has visual processing and auditory processing exercises. They have a 30-day money-back guarantee, so if you don't see progress by that point or your ds hates it, you can drop it at no cost.

 

Since his expressive and receptive speech are delayed, I'll bet that your ds has auditory processing issues. A program like Abecedarian will probably help a lot.

[gingersmom]

I started homeschooling my son in 2nd grade and while he was reading it was not at grade level. We spent that first year reading hundreds of books. By the end of the year he would actually sit with me and ask to read a paragraph or a page.

 

I would not worry about grammar until he is reading.

 

I would also pick books that may be easy to read to build up his confidence.

 

We used Explode the Code with great success and then switched to Plaid Phonics which we are still using and like a lot.

[monalisa]

I just came across an Orton-Gillingham based program called Go Phonics. You can read a review of it on Cathy Duffy's website and also on The Old School House I think. THey have their own website (google it). It looks really good esp. for remedial phonics, but I haven't used it myself.

 

Lisa

[ElizabethB]

 

Wow! This looks like a great website. I haven't watched the "phonics intro movie" yet, but do plan on it. Does her methods of teaching phonics differ from TOPG?

 

Thanks!

 

They are similar, but are based on 2+ syllable words from the first lesson, so they are very motivational for older remedial students while still focusing on basic phonics. They also teach more rules and use more spelling.

 

I've found with my daughter and my remedial students that spelling really reinforces the reading and helps the information stick in the brain better.

 

Webster's Speller is also very effective for older remedial students. The focus on syllables is especially helpful for those with speech or language problems.

 

I now have a step by step guide that eases you into Webster's Speller by teaching the syllables it uses along with Blend Phonics, it's on my how to tutor page, which explains how I work with large groups of older remedial students:

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/howtotutor.html

 

It's the link for the step by step "guide to Blend Phonics."

 

My phonics concentration game is also a fun way to build up the repetition needed for students that have a hard time picking up on blending and sounding out words.

[TMarie]

You all have given me such good information!

It is going to take a while for me to research & digest all that has been mentioned.

Thank you so much for the help! :grouphug:

[TraceyS/FL]

SOunds A LOT like my middle child.

 

We have just been diagnosed with Visual Processing and Auditory Processing. They go together more than i even thought in reading - especially the Auditory. I'm enjoying reading - "When the Brain Can't Hear".

 

This helped too: http://www.hslda.org/strugglinglearner/sn_auditory.asp (and the other pages).

 

We tried Abeka, OPGTR, Time4Learning and Starfall before the stuff in BJU Phonics 1 clicked with her. I also think part of it was she was finally ready. Her Auditory processing is significantly delayed (the vision testing says 6y2m when she was 10y1m, the Audiologist didn't use ages in his report). So i think the combo of a format she likes - not auditory obviously, and some age really helped. We haven't started on any therapies yet that will help - she will be doing Vision Therapy at home, OT and ST.

 

:grouphug:

[MyFourSons]

Instead of MCP Plaid Phonics, I would go with McRuffy. They sound similar, but MCP Plaid isn't designed for homeschooling from what I understand.

 

The people at the Orton-Gillingham website have written to me with recommendations, and since their products are the pre-cursor to the Spalding method, and because their products are very successful for students with dyslexics, I would really look into them.

 

Sensational Strategies for Teaching Beginning Readersâ„¢

or less expensive:

Recipe for Reading Recipe for Reading Workbooks

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showpost.php?p=807429&postcount=22 You might look at the posts in this thread after this link as well. There are some samples and videos of the OG method.

 

 

 

We used the Recipe for Reading in the private school I taught at two years ago. It was highly successful with the students who had learning difficulties, and effective for the whole classroom as well. I was very impressed, but it did take some training for us to implement it.

[Lovedtodeath]

 

We used the Recipe for Reading in the private school I taught at two years ago. It was highly successful with the students who had learning difficulties, and effective for the whole classroom as well. I was very impressed, but it did take some training for us to implement it.

The OG people said that if you do Sensational Strategies first, it will give you the tools you need to implement Recipe for Reading. HTH

[ElizabethB]

The OG people said that if you do Sensational Strategies first, it will give you the tools you need to implement Recipe for Reading. HTH

 

I have Recipe for Reading and like it. It seemed straightforward to me, but I've been doing this for a while!

 

I would buy it first if you are considering it and then get the more expensive thing only if you can't figure out Recipe for Reading.

[ElizabethB]

You could also try "Read, Write, Type." It was helpful for my daughter. The follow on is supposedly good, too, but I only have the first one. It's a bit expensive, but you can download a free demo to see if it will work for you.

 

http://www.talkingfingers.com/

 

Also, syllables are really helpful for anyone who has speech difficulties and trouble hearing how sounds blend together. The sounds /c/ /a/ /t/ in isolation actually don't exactly match the sounds in the word, that is a learned skill, and some people have more trouble that others with it. No matter how hard you try, you can't say /c/ without a little bit of "uh" at the end when you say it in isolation. I have a picture of this, and how syllables make the same sounds in isolation as in words, on my dyslexia page, about 1/3 to 1/2 of the way down, scroll down to the section titled "The atomic nature of syllables":

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/dyslexia.html

 

I would try starting with the syllables of Webster's Speller, it's much easier to blend two letters together than the commonly taught CVC words. I also would start with the easiest letters to blend.

 

The easiest letters to blend are m, n, l, and r, and long vowels are easier to blend than short vowels. They also have the advantage of being both the name and sound of the letter. In the syllabary (the start of 2 letter syllables for Webster's Speller), the syllables ending in a vowel are pronounced long, so ma and ba are pronounced long as in ma-ker and ba-ker.

 

So, here are the easiest syllables to begin with to teach blending:

 

1. ma me mi mo mu my; na ne ni no nu ny; la le li lo lu ly; ra re ri ro ru ry

(remember, the a in a syllable is long as in ma-ker, na-ture, la-kers, ra-di-ant)

 

then short vowels

2. am em im om um; an en in on un

 

Syllables ending with an l or an r change the sound of the vowel and should be taught later.

Edited August 5, 2009 by ElizabethB

[Lovedtodeath]

 

Also, syllables are really helpful for anyone who has speech difficulties and trouble hearing how sounds blend together. The sounds /c/ /a/ /t/ in isolation actually don't exactly match the sounds in the word, that is a learned skill, and some people have more trouble that others with it. No matter how hard you try, you can't say /c/ without a little bit of "uh" at the end when you say it in isolation. I have a picture of this, and how syllables make the same sounds in isolation as in words, on my dyslexia page, about 1/3 to 1/2 of the way down, scroll down to the section titled "The atomic nature of syllables":

Wow! Thanks for sharing. Boy did my niece need this!!

[ElizabethB]

Wow! Thanks for sharing. Boy did my niece need this!!

 

You're welcome!

[japhmi]

I'm not sure why you need to 'repeat 2nd grade' due to reading being behind. Your child is behind in one area, but that doesn't mean that they're behind in other subjects. Don't get overly stressed about what grade they're in.

[Handmaiden]

Here are some free phonics resources:

 

Learning to Read with Phonics

 

Here's another thought. I didn't read all the posts, so I may be duplicating someone else. My oldest son struggled with reading using phonics. He was about the age of your son. We tried three different programs but he couldn't focus.

 

I took him to a neurodevelopmentalist and discovered two things that were holding him back. First, he had central vision issues (peripheral vision was overdeveloped so he literally couldn't focus on the words). Second, I discovered he had auditory processing issues and was a visual spatial learner.

 

We remediated his vision issues and switched to a whole language approach, and in about 4 months he took off in reading.

 

This may not apply to your kiddo. He may simply need more time. My second and third children were like that. They didn't take off in reading until well into their 8th year. But I thought I'd throw it out there as food for thought.

 

If I were in your shoes, I would also consider putting the grammar on hold.

 

HTH!

[Handmaiden]

I'm not sure why you need to 'repeat 2nd grade' due to reading being behind. Your child is behind in one area, but that doesn't mean that they're behind in other subjects. Don't get overly stressed about what grade they're in.

 

Good advice.

 

Homeschoolers don't have to follow conventional grade levels like schools do. :001_smile: