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WTM Model and Waiting Until Year 3 to Dig into Novels


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Has anyone else been frustrated by the WTM chronological four-year cycle that delays the novel until years 3 and 4?

 

We're enjoying the ancients (year 1 using TOG 1), but I'm beginning to look toward year two and I'm getting discouraged. There are so many novels that I want to read and study and discuss - there is so much fodder there - and a novel explores the human heart and SO many of these history/philosophy issues in such a personal and passionate way... can you tell that I don't want to wait until year three to really dig in and GO? History is great; I'm just getting anxious. I WANT to READ THESE BOOKS WITH MY OLDEST DS!!!!!!! Don't get me wrong - the Iliad and the Odyssey are great! I'm looking forward to reading the Greek plays with him, and The Aeneid will be terrific. But I want to curl up with a pile of novels - and I suspect that my son would love it too!

 

Would it be terribly messy and wrong to do something like "American Literature" next year? So many of these works just seem more accessible for a younger student? Or maybe to jump from 400 AD to 1600 AD and ****GASP*** skip the Middle Ages, the Renaissance, and the Reformation - or at least just do a quickie drive-by and start the WTM year 11 list? I realize that it's not all novels - but at least there are SOME!

 

I would love some BTDT input from you folks who haven't stuck to the chronological path. Regrets? Do-over advice?

 

Your thoughts please!

 

Peace,

Janice

 

Enjoy your little people

Enjoy your journey

 

P.S. Some background - I finished Norman Cantor's excellent text on The Middle Ages this month. It was so well done. Then I picked up Hawthorne's The Scarlet Letter. I have never read it. (Can you believe that!?!) I'm almost done with it; it is taking me longer than expected because I keep re-reading chapters because I am enjoying it so much. I love reading history. I do. But even Cantor's well-written text seems dusty and tedious by comparison. Hawthorne makes me reflect; he makes me want to cry; he makes me CARE! I guess I'm anxious to GET TO this STUFF with my ds before he gets too old and his days are lost to his passions - math, science, and all things engineering.

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sprinkling in WTM suggestions when we can.

 

9th-Intro to Lit (Ancients plus a few basic novels to introduce lit analysis)

10th-American Lit

11th-British Lit

12th-World Lit

 

For example, we didn't cover Plato's Republic in 9th grade (because we couldn't fit it in) but studied it this year in World Lit. So many of the Great Books take a certain level of maturity that my boys just don't have yet.

 

I do not regret our path at all and expect to meander similar treks with my next two sons.

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history is not the favorite subject in our homeschool:eek:We're more science/math people with one stray artist in the bunch, lol!

 

We actually condense world history into a 2-year cycle during high school, in 9th and 10th grades. So, actually our lit kinda, sorta fit. You know, we did read The Odyssey during our study of Greece;) But I didn't freak out when something didn't correspond exactly. The courses were related, but separate. Of course, this becomes more difficult when following something like TOG, but we throw together a mish mash of materials into our curriculum. I am extremely independent and frugal and use a lot of free online materials when I can (or whatever is available at the thrift shop that year, lol...that is how we got our Prentice Hall textbook for World History!)

 

For 11th and 12th grades, we have done Govt/Economics and World Views/Apologetics, so our literature courses have not meshed with history AT ALL.

 

You can probably throw me off the boards, now, for violating all rules of classical education! Our oldest ds (a senior) has turned out ok, though, and I am extremely proud of his achievements. He's attending Grove City next year as a Computer Science major.

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I'm still not sure what we're going to do for high school (which starts next year!). Oldest dd did a condensed version of World History in 2 years, using BJU stretched out with a good deal of extras. That helped me be able to fit in more literature where I wanted, and I was very pleased with the plan overall.

 

And we have done the Ancients at least 3 times that I remember, but I think it may be more like 4. I don't want to do that again for 9th!

 

This is one reason why I struggle with the 4-year cycle as they get older. Plus, we like textbooks. And this one coming up is all about the math and science, history, not as much.

 

At some point, I might even want to do a year of European History - but if I do a 4-yr cycle, I'm going to be chopping up textbooks, looking for too many extras.....

 

I wish someone would give me permission to go a more traditional route for history, something like:

9th & 10th: World History, World Geography (both, concurrently, just stretching a two 1-year textbooks into 2 years) & a smorgasboard of lit

11th: US History, US Gov't, & American Lit

12th: European History & British Lit

 

I lose a lot of sleep over this. aha1blue.gif

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You have my permission! :) Even when we did more or less the WTM method with my oldest son, we still read novels. For example, when he studied ancients, we read Quo Vadis, and some other things I'm not remembering right now (it was a long time ago).

 

With my second son, we have taken a more traditional route, though using many of WTM's methods along the way. He has had a 2-year Western civilization course, a full year of American history (with government), and will study modern world history/literature next year. Along the way, he has taken (online) Western literature to Dante and English literature (concurrent with the Western civ. course that we did at home), American literature with American history (along with an AP literature and comp class online)--that's this year.

 

So, yeah--it's okay!

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Kathleen,

Trying to remember here... is your second son taking the AP literature and comp class with PA Homeschoolers? So is he also taking an American history class (is that on your own, with Scholars Online, or PA Homeschoolers?) AND an American Literature class as well as American Government - all of this in his junior year? Because that would NOT (LOL) be OK for my oldest. Unless he goes through an academic worm-hole in the next 18 months, he would be DROWNING!

Trying to understand....

Jan

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Yes, that's right, Janice. He's taking AP lit with PA Homeschoolers (great class--he told me yesterday he's going to be sad when this class is over). Also taking Am hist/literature/gov't with me (and a couple other students). He's an excellent reader/literature analyzer, so it hasn't been too much for him. A few of the books and short stories (and even poetry) for the two literature courses overlap, too, so that's made it easier on him. Also, the gov't was one semester, and done in the first semester, so he won't have that after this week.

 

I think normally one would just substitute AP literature for the American or English literature course (since it has some of both).

 

Oh, and I want to point out that it was his choice to take the AP lit class along with the other things he's doing, so I didn't force it on him! Really! I'm not that much of a tyrant.

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Not really.;)

 

I'd have to dig out my records to see what resources I pulled together for 9th grade intro to lit. It was a good year...I know I shelved HTRAB in favor of Sire's How to Read Slowly.

 

In 1oth, we started out using a Stobaugh coursefor American lit...that one crashed and burned. It looked wonderful but I couldn't implement it. (This was an older version; I know it has been retooled and republished since then). Since I didn't have money to buy another course that year, I used Glencoe online guides and Sparknotes (along with any other online helps for particular books). Surprisingly, I found I liked that approach...it wasn't as scattered as I thought it would be.

 

Secondly, we tried the LLATL British lit book. It was just ok. I did add Shakespeare to that, using a Walch workbook and other audio sources from the library.

 

My senior is studying World Lit this year using Hewitt's Lightning Lit (and a few add-ons of my own). It is DEFINITELY my favorite resource we have used thus far. So flexible, yet full of good stuff and easy to implement.

 

I may use Literary Lessons from LOTR with my 2 younger sons next year. My middle son is not academically inclined (read rather reluctant), so I would probably have to drag him through American Lit. He is a great fan of the fantasy genre, though, so LOTR does have a great appeal to him.

 

Probably more than you wanted to know!:eek:

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Nothing to forgive - I so appreciate your answer, though it will take a while for me to digest it! (I'll be googling for days, I'm sure - LOL)

 

I am just in vascillation-mode. First, I think TOG for sure - then why not WTM w/Susan's new book - then SL - then Stobaugh's new stuff - then BJU or Abeka - then public school - and then back to TOG. Guess it's good I still have another year to decide! It is really freeing to hear that I don't have to follow a plan - someone else's pre-designed plan - and how other people work that out into reality. The scary part of that, of course, is that I feel too ignorant to make a really good plan of our own! So, thanks for sharing!!

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I've come to see over the years that I cannot fit my boybarians into the classical mold. Now I think of myself no longer as a "classical" (or "neo-classical") hs'er; I've altered my "label" to "resigned classical"--as in, classical in inclination,but resigned to real-life with boys :rolleyes:.

 

BTW, Janice, I wanted to thank you for your recommendation of Deconstructing Penguins. Lots of fun and puts a face on what Teaching the Classics outlines.

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Isn't that a great book (Deconstructing Penguins)? It just makes the whole process so cozy and so do-able. I love books like that; they shine the light on all of the other titles that I own. Everything makes more sense now... I suspect that's the root of these musings and questions of mine...

Now that things make more sense, some of the boxes that seemed so roomy to me before are starting to feel a bit cramped; it's making me anxious.

 

Is there a cure somewhere in this whole board bee-analogy for we aimless but noisy bees who keep buzzing around in circles and bumping into everything???!!!???

CAN'T SOMEONE JUST TELL ME WHERE THE SWEETEST NECTAR IS ... FOR SURE... NO MATTER WHAT!!! and then guard the entrance to the hive and NOT let me back in until I've gone and collected some? ANYONE?

 

Peace,

A Giggling Janice - I'm cool. Really. I need to get off the computer.

 

Enjoy your little people

Enjoy your journey

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You can probably throw me off the boards, now, for violating all rules of classical education! Our oldest ds (a senior) has turned out ok, though, and I am extremely proud of his achievements. He's attending Grove City next year as a Computer Science major.

 

Hey,

 

Who said that classical education has to have a four year cycle? I'm sure you didn't break any rules. If you did, then I'm a goner for sure! :)

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I've altered my "label" to "resigned classical"--as in, classical in inclination,but resigned to real-life with boys :rolleyes:.

 

That's what I am! Resigned classical! I happily and somewhat smugly called myself a classical unschooler for many years, but with the high school years I've been more of a "whatever works" kind of homeschool mom.

 

Right now what works for my 16yo ds is basically a unit study of WWII. So much for a systematic chronological approach, the 4 year cycle, the Great Books. We'll probably finish off his last semester of high school (next fall!) using "Movies as Literature".

 

I had many plans on what high school would look like for him, but true to form, reality with him is far different from my ideals and dreams. I'm now trying to figure out what high school might be like for my more academically inclined 7th grader...

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Yikes! Me, too! We're all over the place. Every time I feel bored we do a Shakespeare play. We're doing scifi instead of 20th cent. lit and interspersing it throughout the rest of our literature. When I go to write the transcript, I'll put the books in order and divide it into 4 parts and label them appropriately. Until then, I'm not worrying GRIN.

-Nan

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