Confused by daughter's illness - care to help diagnose?

[Janna]

My daughter is 11yo. On Wednesday of last week (July 1), I picked her up from a sleep over. While I was there talking with the mother who hosted, dd started to say she felt nauseous. She started to cry. She is *not* a crier. We all assumed she was absolutely exhausted from the sleepover. She fell asleep in the car on the way home, and went straight to bed when she got home. When she woke up 2 hours later, she said she felt lightheaded, had a headache and her throat hurt. Apparently her throat had started hurting earlier that day at the sleepover. The next morning, she said her throat hurt, she was still lightheaded and she had a headache and backache. By that afternoon she had a fever of 104.

 

Since Thursday afternoon, she has been taking Motrin every 6 hours on the dot because as soon as it wears off, her fever is back between 103 and 104. I paged our doctor on Friday and we determined that if she was no better by Saturday, she would meet us at the office and check her over and run a strep test. So yesterday (Saturday), we ended up meeting her at the office because there was no change.

 

The rapid strep test came back negative, but the Dr. said 20% of the time it gives false negatives. Were it a weekday she would have sent the bacteria to the lab. Anyway, she said her throat looked horrible, had white spots on the swollen tonsils and was very red. She didn't have an ear infection, her spleen and liver were not enlarged (suspecting mono), so she decided to go ahead and treat her with Amoxocilin because the fever wasn't going away and the throat definitely looked like a bacterial throat infection (of which there are many besides strep).

 

She has been on the antibiotic for over 24 hours now. I am still giving her Motrin because her fever continues to exist, though not as high today (102). Late yesterday afternoon, she all of a sudden became *very* congested. So that made me think she did not have strep afterall. We had ruled out influenza because up until yesterday afternoon she did not have nasal issues nor was she coughing. She still is not coughing, but she cannot breath *at all* through her nose. I tried the Neti pot on her and it literally will not come out the other nostril. The thing is, her nostrils are clear, which makes me think she has a sinus infection.

 

So, I am confused. I don't know if she now has a sinus infection as a complication of something else that she originally had, or if it's been a sinus infection all along, or if she has the flu...I am at a loss. She has continued with the fever, the sore throat, the headache, the backache and the light- headedness since Wednesday. She has *horrible* breath and a white tongue.

 

I plan on calling her Dr. tomorrow but I don't even know what to say. I mean, her fever isn't as high, but holy cow, she can't breath at all, which is aggrevating her thoat because breathing through her mouth is drying it out so badly. Plus she says it's difficult to swallow because it is so painful, but also because her tonsils are so swollen. She has had a *lot* of popsicles and water.

 

I am at a loss. Wouldn't the antibiotics be working by now? And if this is viral...holy cow - it's nasty and causing a high fever for many days. This is my daughter who has been to the Dr. only once for illness, which was pneumonia when she was 4yo. She's never even had an ear infection.

 

Suggestions?

[Harriet Vane]

I don't know what to suggest, but wanted to offer my fullest sympathy to both of you. She sounds absolutely miserable, and I know you are worried. My prayers are with her tonight--let us know how things progress.

 

:grouphug:

[Tammy]

If she has only been on them a little over 24 hours....I would think that was a little too soon. When I have to take antibiotics.....I usually double up on them the first day....to get them in my system sooner. OR....I have the dr. just give me a shot....and be done with it, LOL.

 

I hope your dd starts to feel better soon. Maybe get her some nose spray....that works wonders....but don't use it over 3 days in a row (addictive).

 

.

[springmama]

I agree with you, she should feel some relief within 24 hours on antibiotics. My only thoughts are that either it's viral or she needs a different antibioitic. the last time I was really sick with a sinus infection the dr gave me a steroid shot and then a prescription for steroids. That helped tremendously but this was after being sick for about a month.

 

I would take her back to see the doctor tomorrow and see if there is somethign else they can do for her.

[Mommyof4ks]

I don't know, but hopefully the doc can get her some relief. Maybe it is viral? Some stubborn bacterial infections don't respond well to abx, but still she should be at least some better.

 

Is she allergic to the abx? An allergic reaction can take many forms. Maybe that would explain the nasal issues? Can you get in touch with the doc to find out if it is a possible reaction to the abx? Have you tried a benadryl?

 

I am not a doctor or nurse just a mom with too much experience with allergic reactions *sigh* so that is where my mind goes.

[Orthodox6]

I do not want to trigger a panic, but would you please -- and ASAP -- read up on symptoms of meningitis ? This list comes from children.webmd.com.

 

I never have had a child contract this illness, but I understand how serious (and fatal, if untreated) it is. I do not know how many symptoms must be present to confirm meningitis.

_________________________________________________________

_________________________________________________________

 

 

Symptoms of bacterial meningitis usually appear suddenly. Symptoms of viral meningitis may appear suddenly or develop gradually over a period of days. For example, the symptoms of viral meningitis after mumps may take several days or weeks to develop.

The most common symptoms of either form of meningitis include:

 

 

• Fever.
  
• Severe and persistent headache.
  
• Stiff and painful neck, especially when trying to touch the chin to the chest.
  
• Vomiting.
  
• Confusion and decreased level of consciousness.
  
• Seizures.
  

 

Other symptoms of meningitis include:

 

 

• Sluggishness, muscle aches and weakness, and strange feelings (such as tingling) or weakness throughout the body.
  
• Eye sensitivity and eye pain from bright lights.
  
• Skin rash.
  
• Dizzy spells.
  

 

The incubation period-the time from exposure to the infection to when the first symptoms develop-depends on the type of organism causing the infection.

Babies, young children, older adults, and people with other medical conditions may not have the usual symptoms of meningitis.

 

 

• In babies, the signs of meningitis may be a fever, irritability that is difficult to calm, decreased appetite, rash, vomiting, and a shrill cry. Babies also may have bulging soft spots on their heads that are not caused by crying, and a stiff body. Babies with meningitis may cry when handled.
  
• Young children with meningitis may act like they have the flu (influenza), cough, or have trouble breathing.
  
• Older adults and people with other medical conditions may have only a slight headache and fever. They may not feel well and may have little energy.
  

 

Other conditions with similar symptoms to meningitis include viral hepatitis and flu.

[yslek]

Maybe flu + strep? I know it's not uncommon to have one infection and then develop a second "opportunistic" infection on top of that. (Had that happen when pg with L...I had the flu, which led to a really bad case of pneumonia. I was on IV antibiotics in the hospital for a week, followed up by oral antibiotics. It took a long while for me to feel any better.) Hopefully the Dr. will have some answers for you. Poor girl. :(

[Janna]

I will ask the Dr. about this tomorrow. I know a stiff neck is almost always present with meningitis, but she hasn't complained of that - until tonight. When I was doing the Neti-Pot with her, she kept saying it was hurting her neck. I assumed it was because of the angle she had her head.

 

There has been no vomiting, no sense of confusion and no fatigue any more unusual than when one isn't feeling well. But nonetheless, I will ask about this tomorrow. In my searches over the last several days, meningitis has consistently come up but I've dismissed it. Thanks for the nudge.

[Janna]

I don't know, but hopefully the doc can get her some relief. Maybe it is viral? Some stubborn bacterial infections don't respond well to abx, but still she should be at least some better.

 

Is she allergic to the abx? An allergic reaction can take many forms. Maybe that would explain the nasal issues? Can you get in touch with the doc to find out if it is a possible reaction to the abx? Have you tried a benadryl?

 

I am not a doctor or nurse just a mom with too much experience with allergic reactions *sigh* so that is where my mind goes.

 

Thanks for this suggestion - an allergy never occurred to me. I have done some checking, but I haven't seen where congestion is a side effect. That's Ok though, I will still ask about it tomorrow. Thank you (and I'm sorry you have so much experience with allergies)!

[tex-mex]

I'm sorry to hear this! Back in April/May, I had a similar situation with flu that turned into strep (painful sore throat/strep - false results, severe cough, chest pain, hurt to breathe, body aches, sinus pain but no drip, fever, etc.) that lasted close to 4 weeks. I went to my doctor and she said it was a virus. So I went w/o any antibiotics... I slept a lot, kept hydrated, but my body was worn out! I'm sorry to hear you ds is sick!!!

Edited July 6, 2009 by tex-mex

[Ruby]

I seem to recall that the last major flu that went around here in California was really bad. Lots of miserable symptoms and lasted at least two weeks. Also wouldn't be surprised of the sore throat germs traveled up into the nasal passages and spread infection. Hope she gets better soon. Ruby

[Lovedtodeath]

I would add something to her regimen that is both anti-biotic and anti-fungal (oil of oregeno, colloidal silver, grapefruit seed extract). Abx are known for causing fungus to grow. You can have fungal sinus infections and it sounds like she may have thrush (white tongue). Paint her tongue with a liquid form and take the pills.

 

I also thought of meningitis. My mom, brother and DH have all had it.

[Tree House Academy]

Okay. I have been sitting here thinking about the different components that make up this illness and here is what I have come up with.

 

My ds, about once a year, gets a nasty throat infection. It can last from 3-7 days and is NOT strep. He is usually in lots of pain, terrible looking throat, and fever that hardly goes down even alternating motrin and tylenol every 3 hours. His is viral and has to run its course. He is miserable the entire time and so are we!

 

That said, the white tongue sounds like bacteria...as does the bad breath. It also sounds like her sinuses are involved. I have terrible issues with my sinuses and I do not tend to drain properly. It is a nightmare and oh so painful.

 

My advice is to obviously get back to the dr. I am not thinking meningitis, and if it was that, I would bet viral (bacterial is just scary and honestly, she would probably have gotten much worse by now). My thought here is that she needs a much stronger antibiotic. Amox is like bottom of the ladder. Amox won't touch a bad sinus infection and I am surprised that the doc gave her that when she was suspecting strep or a bacterial throat infection. Likely, she did so because your dd is not sick much and does not take antibiotics. At the very least, your dd should be taking Augmentin...even though I much prefer Levaquin or something really potent when it has gotten this bad. 2 days on Levaquin once knocked out a sinus infection that I had battled for over a year (repeat infections). Good stuff.

 

My thought and prayers that your dd turns the corner with this soon and that the doctor can get her on some stronger medicine. Keep us posted!

[specialmama]

***gross and graphic detail warning*****

I had a mysterious illness about 3 years ago, where I could not breathe through my nose AT ALL, but it was absolutely clear. I had violent vomitting episodes though, but still, check this out:

threw up violently

had that vomit smell in my nose

blew my nose HARD, harder than I should have

within seconds of blowing (too) hard, I lost all breathing through the nose abilities.

 

Had my dh drive me to dr's because if I threw up again and couldn't breathe, I was worried about choking to death. SOOO... before we got in to the office, I was about to throw up. I told myself I needed to get rid of whatever was blocking my sinus cavity or I was going to asphixiate and die right there. So I snorted in really hard and spit out about 2 cups of solid clear mucous. It wasn't really mucous though. It was thick like raw egg white. I poked a stick at it and everything, and it was all one piece. As soon as that thick ick was gone, I could breathe normal and hear normal. So when I blew my nose (too) hard, it stands to reason that I forced some sort of stomach mucous up into my sinus cavity. :confused:

 

Anyhow, dr thought it was viral, put me on some meds and it did go away... but he admitted he really didn't know what it was.

 

I realize this isn't much help and only deals with possibilities for one symptom, but I had never heard of anyone else ever having that weird "congestion". It may be worth asking her if she blew her nose really hard before she became congested. Did she ignore that little alarm in her head that says "stop here ~ don't blow harder?"

[Unicorn.]

Okay. I have been sitting here thinking about the different components that make up this illness and here is what I have come up with.

 

My ds, about once a year, gets a nasty throat infection. It can last from 3-7 days and is NOT strep. He is usually in lots of pain, terrible looking throat, and fever that hardly goes down even alternating motrin and tylenol every 3 hours. His is viral and has to run its course. He is miserable the entire time and so are we!

 

That said, the white tongue sounds like bacteria...as does the bad breath. It also sounds like her sinuses are involved. I have terrible issues with my sinuses and I do not tend to drain properly. It is a nightmare and oh so painful.

 

My advice is to obviously get back to the dr. I am not thinking meningitis, and if it was that, I would bet viral (bacterial is just scary and honestly, she would probably have gotten much worse by now). My thought here is that she needs a much stronger antibiotic. Amox is like bottom of the ladder. Amox won't touch a bad sinus infection and I am surprised that the doc gave her that when she was suspecting strep or a bacterial throat infection. Likely, she did so because your dd is not sick much and does not take antibiotics. At the very least, your dd should be taking Augmentin...even though I much prefer Levaquin or something really potent when it has gotten this bad. 2 days on Levaquin once knocked out a sinus infection that I had battled for over a year (repeat infections). Good stuff.

 

My thought and prayers that your dd turns the corner with this soon and that the doctor can get her on some stronger medicine. Keep us posted!

 

:iagree: Doesn't sound like meningitis to me, sounds like when my kids get strep. Amox doesn't do anything for them. Last month when dd had strep, she was put on Z-pac, and it wasn't until day 3 that we got improvement.

 

:grouphug: to both of you, I hope she feels better soon!

[Barb_]

If the strep test comes back negative, request that they test for Mono. We just went through that here.

 

Barb

[ondreeuh]

My guess is it's an adenovirus. http://kidshealth.org/parent/infections/lung/adenovirus.html

 

Adenoviruses — a group of viruses that infect the membranes (tissue linings) of the respiratory tract, the eyes, the intestines, and the urinary tract — account for about 10% of acute respiratory infections in children and are a frequent cause of diarrhea.

 

I had an adenovirus several years ago that not only gave me a raging strep-type pharyngitis (the worst the doctor's office had ever seen, they said), but also spread to my eyes and caused them to swell. I found this out when my contacts lacerated my corneas since my eyes were too big for them. It took a couple of weeks for my throat to get better, and I think around 3 months before my eyes returned to normal. I remember having stuffy ears and probably sinus symptoms too, but I don't remember having an intestinal or urinary symptoms so I think it can affect some, but not all of the membranes.

[JudyJudyJudy]

It sounds viral to me (though she could also have a sinus infection). When ds had primary oral herpes infection, his symptoms were similar to what you described. At another time he had another virus that presented with similar symptoms as well; he tested negative for strep, mono, pneumonia, etc. In the situation with oral herpes (initial cases can be bad in some people), the doctor eventually had to give him an anti-viral medication because he simply would not clear up. (I'm anti-meds unless absolutely necessary, so I won't allow meds without a firm diagnosis and unless absolutely necessary.)

 

As for the white tongue, I totally agree with Lovedtodeath that it sounds as though she has thrush (a fungal infection). Her sinus infection could be fungal as well. If it is, the antibiotics will only make things worse.

 

I hope she's better soon.

[SherryTX]

Myself, my 9 year old and my husband went through something that sounds pretty similar the past few weeks. We only took my daughter to the doctor because of the very high fevers, and although she found no sign of the flu or strep, she put her on antibiotics because of the fevers for so long. Her fevers stopped within 24 hours.

 

I still don't know what it was - but I had it as well - twice, but the second time with no fever, so I didn't bother going to the doctor. But dang my ears and throat were killing me!

 

I hope she is doing better - and just wanted to bump this up so it would be easier for you to find so you could let us know how she is doing.

[TammyinTN]

We just went through this and it was a 4 week ordeal. We had to do 2 different regimens of antibiotics and he's only had antibiotics twice in his life.

It was horrible! I hope your daughter will be feeling better soon.:grouphug:

[BalanceSeeker]

That was the first thing that came to my mind.

[Blueridge]

It came on so quickly for her, poor thing. It sounds like a nasty flu to me. I pray for a quick recovery for her!

[Elisabeth in IL]

I'm so sorry that your dd is sick. Please let us know how she is doing.

[The Girls' Mom]

Just another thought....strep does some nasty stuff to me. Oral antibiotics won't touch it if it's gotten bad enough for me to have a high fever. I end up with a shot of rocefrin to knock it out. I've also had congestion/cold symptoms with it. I would take her back today....hope she gets better soon!

[Catwoman]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

I hope she feels better soon, and that the doctor is able to properly diagnose the illness and give her the proper treatment.

 

It's just awful to be sick like that.

 

Cat

[KidsHappen]

Just this past winter my dd had a confirmed case of strep. She took the anti-biotics and then had another test that was clear.However, she still had all of her original symptoms. Turns out she had a virus on top pf the strep infections. It took her at least two full weeks to recover.

 

My guess is that she has something like this going on.

[lionfamily1999]

Janna, this sounds EXACTLY like what my boys had last week. :grouphug:

 

Hopefully, it will clear up soon. We dosed, often with fever reducers, popsicles (did better for their fever than the medicine), and cool baths.

[cdrumm4448]

I have to second the call for oil of oregano. It's available at any healthfood store. It's anti-bacterial, anti-viral, anti-fungal and anti-parasitic. You can't OD on it, and I routinely give it to my kids. It's on e of the only medicinal grade essential oils that you can ingest. I take it daily, and if I ever (rarely) feel like I'm getting sick I take it at least 10 times a day and by night time I'm fine. When my kids are really, really sick, they suggest taking it because even though it's very strong-tasting, it's better than how horrible they feel. Be prepared to provide juice or crackers right after you put it under their tongue; it's got a really strong oregano taste!

[Lovedtodeath]

I take oil of oregeno in interic coated capsules. I never go to the medical doctor I successfully treated bronchitis with a script from the ND for an enzyme.

[Jean in Newcastle]

One note on oil of oregano - you can be allergic to it. I am and my tongue swelled up when I took it (fortunately not too much and it did go down after a while).

[Janna]

Thanks everyone for your help!

 

I wanted to let you know that today, finally, dd is feeling much better! The amoxicillin seems to have kicked in and we're on the upward slope!

 

Yesterday, dd was crying because she was so congested and also had so much phlegm in the back of her throat that she couldn't swallow her medicine. I noticed that her nose was running from the crying so I told her to blow her nose. I know this is tmi, but I just have to share - she literally blew between 1/3 cup and 1/2 of snot out of her nose. I have *never* seen so much come out of a person's head! It filled 3 paper towels (because we were in the kitchen and that's what I grabbed for her to blow in). And the color was unlike anything I'd ever seen before. Anyway, after that, she could breath and has been feeling better ever since! Fever is finally gone, throat is not as sore...Yay!

 

I still don't know that she had, but it was clearly bacterial. Thanks again for all your help and praise God it wasn't Meningitis!

[LUV2EDU]

Glad to hear she is feeling better.:grouphug:

[Jean in Newcastle]

So glad that she got it all out!

[Catwoman]

I'm so glad to hear she's finally feeling better and is on the road to recovery!

 

I'll bet you're so relieved!!!

 

Cat