The End of the World (religious question)

[BillieBoy]

I think that has more to do with the Crystal Skull theory. I believe that Machu Pichu is supposed to be where they originated and once all the skulls are put into their proper places they either surround it or it's the center of the power they're supposed to eminate. (insert spooky music)

 

Yes, I think she was trying to cover all her bases. :001_smile:

[Cricket]

Here's an interesting link of past obviously failed predictions

 

http://www.religioustolerance.org/end_wrl2.htm

 

That was great. (I would have to take exception to the first one though. Jesus didn't predict his second coming within 30 years of his death.) There is nothing new under the sun!

[Garga]

I've heard so many people try to predict it, it's just silly to me that anyone would try. 18 years ago someone "prophesied" at a church I visited that Jesus was coming back in 7 years. Well, he's 11 years late according to that prophet.

 

I heard a preacher on the radio talking about how when he was young in the 50's a lot of his contemporaries said they weren't going to bother going to college because it was obvious that Jesus was coming back in the next couple of years, so college would be a waste of time for them. (That was almost 60 years ago now.)

 

There's no way to tell, and the bible specifically says that no one will know. Yes, there are signs, but a lot of those signs have been around before. There are always wars and famine and all that.

 

Could be in the next minute, could be in the next thousand years.

 

The important thing is to be ready all the time. You could also die in the next minute, so the time to be ready is...now.

Edited July 4, 2009 by Garga

[Lovedtodeath]

2 Peter 3:3-9 (New Living Translation)

 

3 Most importantly, I want to remind you that in the last days scoffers will come, mocking the truth and following their own desires. 4 They will say, “What happened to the promise that Jesus is coming again? From before the times of our ancestors, everything has remained the same since the world was first created.â€

5 They deliberately forget that God made the heavens by the word of his command, and he brought the earth out from the water and surrounded it with water. 6 Then he used the water to destroy the ancient world with a mighty flood. 7 And by the same word, the present heavens and earth have been stored up for fire. They are being kept for the day of judgment, when ungodly people will be destroyed. 8 But you must not forget this one thing, dear friends: A day is like a thousand years to the Lord, and a thousand years is like a day. 9 The Lord isn’t really being slow about his promise, as some people think. No, he is being patient for your sake. He does not want anyone to be destroyed, but wants everyone to repent.

[JennC]

KingM

I am a Christian who does believe this will happen. I believe that the Rapture will take place before the Tribulation. And I just believe it, as others have posted, will happen "at any time." If you are truly seeking a "when" answer, I do recommend the book "Are We Living in the End Times" by Jerry LaHaye (I hope I have the name correct). This book is extremely well researched from a Christian point of view. It DOES NOT predict a date when this will happen, but examines prophesy in the Bible and compares them to many modern day inventions, advances and occurences. It is a good read period, IMO, Christian or not, if you are truly seeking the answer to your question.

p.s. I have no idea how to correct the misspelled word in my post and am too lazy to go look it up - it's a holiday

[Ibbygirl]

I know that some people believe that based on Matthew 24:32-34 that the generation that was living at the time of Israel becoming a nation (Israel being the fig tree in the parable) that this generation will not pass away before the end. So in other words the last baby to be born on May 14, 1948 would not pass before the end according to this theory. It is an interesting theory and I guess we wont' know until the time comes and goes if that particular interpretation of the Scriptures was true or not, but for me, I know that I have settled my spiritual affairs and I am ready to go whenever my Lord should call me. If I die I will be present with my Lord if I am Raptured I will be with my Lord. It really doesn't matter to me either way... as long as I am with my Lord. :)

[HSMom2One]

I wouldn't even want to try to predict when the Rapture and the following events will take place, but from my understanding of prophetic scripture it seems to be getting closer and closer to that time in history. For instance, things are lining up (even in our own nation) to correspond with the restoration of the Roman Empire, a one world order and the reign of the Anti Christ. (A study of the Book of Daniel explains a great deal of these points and seems to indicate that these things are actually happening right now.) I wouldn't be surprised at all if we experience the Rapture in our lifetime. But then again, if we don't, we do need to realize and remember that we are living in our own personal last days and need to seek God's wisdom in how we live.

 

I don't study or even ponder over these things out of fear, I think that Christians should be excited about the days we live in. If your heart and soul are right, then there is nothing at all to fear. Even so, we shouldn't get so focused on the future that we forget about giving today our best. I simply think that we need to be informed, aware and prepared for the days that we live in.

 

Here is a link to a very interesting website/blog that discusses these matters. It might not be for everyone, but definitely has some thoughts to ponder over. Another really great site is www.raptureready.com. I know that some of you wil think I'm nuts, but you asked the question and I'm giving my opinion.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

Edited July 5, 2009 by HSMom2One

[Ibbygirl]

I wouldn't even want to try to predict when the Rapture and the following events will take place, but from my understanding of prophetic scripture it seems to be getting closer and closer to that time in history. For instance, things are lining up (even in our own nation) to correspond with the restoration of the Roman Empire, a one world order and the reign of the Anti Christ. (A study of the Book of Daniel explains a great deal of these points and seems to indicate that these things are actually happening right now.)

 

My Bible study group did Beth Moore's video study of Daniel this last year and it was AWESOME!! One thing that Beth said I really loved. She said, "Now ladies, what are the chances that all of the kingdoms that were prophesied have come to pass exactly as Daniel predicted but the last one somehow won't?" I also loved learning in that study how God called Cyrus by name 150 years BEFORE he was even born! Awesome! Daniel is such an awesome book. What a great man of faith he was and Beth Moore's study really helped bring it to life for me. I always had trouble understanding the prophecy passages and it really helped me to have done the study. :)

[the4Rs]

To whoever mentioned the question about how everyone would be given the chance to know Jesus and thinking that logically that isn't possible, let me share something.

 

We live in an ever increasingly global world, wouldn't you agree? The age of computers is making the ability for Jesus to be shared with many around the world who would have no opportunity to hear about it first hand. We are also living in an age when the number of missionaries and organizations are sending out record numbers to reach people. If they tell one person and that person tells one person...etc it catches on and can be spread in amazing ways.

 

And lastly, the Bible states that all of creation testifies about God and that NO one is without excuse on the day of judgement. There is no excuse.

 

I do not know the day, week, hour, month, year, etc that Christ will come but I know he is coming. And you know what is so exciting? He isn't coming back as a lowly babe this time without the fanfare. He is coming back as LORD and warrior! I love it!!! The earth will know in that day. Sad thing though, by then it will be too late for those he is so patiently waiting to turn to him. What a glorious and sad day that will be for Him.

 

Pre-mid-post trib is irrelavant as a Christian. It will happen and none know how. I say this "Hope that is pre-Trib but be prepared for Post-Trib." If the first apostles were all but one martyred to death for their faith as well as many in the early church- what makes us think that we will not also be persecuted for our faith in the final days. We are no more special than any other Christians that have walked the earth. Be prepared.

 

Man, I feel a Holy Fire igniting the church these days! I mean true Bible preaching teaching die hard followers of Christ. It is exhilarating!!!!

[Jorsay]

And lastly, the Bible states that all of creation testifies about God and that NO one is without excuse on the day of judgement. There is no excuse.

 

I do not know the day, week, hour, month, year, etc that Christ will come but I know he is coming. And you know what is so exciting? He isn't coming back as a lowly babe this time without the fanfare. He is coming back as LORD and warrior! I love it!!! The earth will know in that day. Sad thing though, by then it will be too late for those he is so patiently waiting to turn to him. What a glorious and sad day that will be for Him.

 

 

So what if you know the story but just don't believe it? You may even want to have faith, but you just don't believe it. Perhaps you have read the entire bible word for word and you are simply not convinced. Perhaps you have listened to and read many arguments about why Jesus is the savior, but you find them unconvincing. Perhaps you just can't make yourself have faith. Do you publicly lie, accept Jesus as your lord and savior when you don't really believe it, and then you are saved? Do you lie to God? Won't God know that you don't believe? What then? How do you force yourself to believe something that you just don't?

 

If you are going to hell because you used the only tools that God gave you to decide whether or not Jesus is your savior, you come to an honest conclusion that he is not, and then God sends you to eternal condemnation, that seems a unfair. Also, watching other good people condemned to hell, doesn't seem exciting and exhilerating to me, even if I am saved.

[BillieBoy]

To whoever mentioned the question about how everyone would be given the chance to know Jesus and thinking that logically that isn't possible, let me share something.

I guess that was me?

Oh boy, I debated with myself about responding because this is going so OT. But I will defend my logic.

My original question was in response to another post stating that God will come back only when all people have had the chance to hear and accept his word. My logic questions how will all people have that chance when there is a baby being born every so many seconds which stands to reason that every few seconds or maybe even minutes another person is coming to whatever that magical age of spiritual responsibility is.

 

live in an ever increasingly global world, wouldn't you agree? The age of computers is making the ability for Jesus to be shared with many around the world who would have no opportunity to hear about it first hand. We are also living in an age when the number of missionaries and organizations are sending out record numbers to reach people. If they tell one person and that person tells one person...etc it catches on and can be spread in amazing ways.

I am very aware of advancing communications as well as Christian missionaries. Unfortunately most 3rd world countries do not have Wi-Fi internet and missionaries (and I do not in any way minimize their achievements) fall short of their conversions all the time. Often time natives are grateful for the aide and education (even if sometimes bias) but they refuse to accept anything but the belief system passed on to them for millennia or more (sound familiar?). Again I am not in any way, shape or form discrediting the aide, but we are talking about the spreading of the word of God. How much of the word do they have to get before their “chance†expires? A two minute spew while getting a shot of Penicillin? Who decides? A man, a human man? BTW, I do speak from firsthand experience. I have lived all over the world and in many 3rd world nations.

lastly, the Bible states that all of creation testifies about God and that NO one is without excuse on the day of judgement. There is no excuse.

Speaking of the world, there are places in the world where no missionaries will ever be allowed to go (fact), much less let anyone preach the word of God. What about those poor souls? Is there no excuse for those children?

 

the first apostles were all but one martyred to death for their faith as well as many in the early church- what makes us think that we will not also be persecuted for our faith in the final days. We are no more special than any other Christians that have walked the earth. Be prepared.

Here’s one more simple reason why I do not think everyone will be given the chance to hear your word. On these boards alone I’ve read so many fundamental Christians who say they will not teach their children certain elements of science, they say it is a belief system in itself. I doubt these same people would allow their children to hear the preaching’s of Allah or Confucius, or maybe some might but qualify it with “that is not the right wayâ€. So doesn’t it stand to reason that other fundamental religions would feel the same way about their beliefs? You stated that Christians should be prepared to be persecuted for your faith. But are you not exactly doing that to other people’s culture and faith by saying your way is the only way?

, I feel a Holy Fire igniting the church these days! I mean true Bible preaching teaching die hard followers of Christ. It is exhilarating!!!!

I can appreciate your fervency, I can even admire it, but I can also agree to disagree. If you consider me a sinner then just rest assured that Jesus died for my sins already and be done with it. :grouphug:

[Tami]

No idea, but I always picture "end of the world" as a scary, apocolyptic Mad Max-ish type thing. :D

 

I don't see "end of the world" that way. I think in terms of the King returning to rid the world of evil and to reign in righteousness. Think of the King returning in the story of Robin Hood and restoring his kingdom from the false king. Man has mucked it up pretty badly. To sum it up, paradise lost will be paradise restored. Think of the metaphor of the Garden of Eden, and this sums up what I believe will happen to the earth when the King returns.

Edited July 5, 2009 by Tami

[Lovedtodeath]

No idea, but I always picture "end of the world" as a scary, apocolyptic Mad Max-ish type thing. :D

 

I don't see "end of the world" that way. I think in terms of the King returning to rid the world of evil and to reign in righteousness. Think of the King returning in the story of Robin Hood and restoring his kingdom from the false king. Man has mucked it up pretty badly. To sum it up, paradise lost will be paradise restored. Think of the metaphor of the Garden of Eden, and this sums up what I believe will happen to the earth when the King returns.

:iagree:

[Lovedtodeath]

Matthew 24:14 "This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations and then the end will come."

 

Bibles, tracts, brochures, magazines, and books have been translated into 437 languages. There are Christians in more than 230 lands; these lands have not just missionaries but native peoples united in their desire to serve God, all meeting the same standards of conduct.

[ValRN]

refreshing and spiritually motivating. I am a Christian, but don't always put Christ first in my daily wishy washy-stressed out-too many things to do life. This has been a reminder to me that if I am to be ready for the wonderful moment of rapture, I MUST put Christ first.

 

Val

[Plucky]

So what if you know the story but just don't believe it? You may even want to have faith, but you just don't believe it. Perhaps you have read the entire bible word for word and you are simply not convinced. Perhaps you have listened to and read many arguments about why Jesus is the savior, but you find them unconvincing. Perhaps you just can't make yourself have faith. Do you publicly lie, accept Jesus as your lord and savior when you don't really believe it, and then you are saved? Do you lie to God? Won't God know that you don't believe? What then? How do you force yourself to believe something that you just don't?

 

If you are going to hell because you used the only tools that God gave you to decide whether or not Jesus is your savior, you come to an honest conclusion that he is not, and then God sends you to eternal condemnation, that seems a unfair. Also, watching other good people condemned to hell, doesn't seem exciting and exhilerating to me, even if I am saved.

 

 

Hell is merely being apart from God for all eternity. If you don't choose Him in this life, He won't force you to be with him in the afterlife.

[Ibbygirl]

Speaking of the world, there are places in the world where no missionaries will ever be allowed to go (fact), much less let anyone preach the word of God. What about those poor souls? Is there no excuse for those children?

 

 

 

I realize that your comments were directed to another poster so I hope you will forgive me addressing this point of yours, but I have heard of a recent phenomena that is happening all over Iran. Iran is one of those places where no missionaries are allowed to enter, but I have heard story after story about people in that country having visions and dreams of Christ appearing to them and they are being converted in that way. I cannot remember the exact statistics as I don't have them in front of me, but it was something like 15 years ago there were only about 500 known Christians in Iran and now there is something like over a million and many of them have converted through these visions and dreams.

 

There is even a prophecy about this in the book of Acts.

Acts 2:17 (New King James Version)

 

17 ‘ And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God,

That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh;

Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,

Your young men shall see visions,

Your old men shall dream dreams.

 

 

 

 

Again I hope that you don't mind my jumping in on your reply to the other poster. I don't mean to step on any toes, but rather just share what I have heard in this regard. :)

[Old Dominion Heather]

I love that poem... either would sufice.

[Spy Car]

....but I have heard of a recent phenomena that is happening all over Iran. Iran is one of those places where no missionaries are allowed to enter, but I have heard story after story about people in that country having visions and dreams of Christ appearing to them and they are being converted in that way. I cannot remember the exact statistics as I don't have them in front of me, but it was something like 15 years ago there were only about 500 known Christians in Iran and now there is something like over a million and many of them have converted through these visions and dreams.

 

 

 

Ibby??? :confused:

 

This is not correct. Christianity has had a very long presence in Iran. Many Christians have left Iran, and moved to my neighborhood (seriously) but the Christian faith and Christian communities have deep roots in Iran. And there are not a million Christians there now. And there weren't 500 15 years ago. Where did you come up with this? :tongue_smilie:

 

Bill

Edited July 6, 2009 by Spy Car

[ThatCyndiGirl]

Jorsay said:

 

 

Jorsay

So what if you know the story but just don't believe it? You may even want to have faith, but you just don't believe it. Perhaps you have read the entire bible word for word and you are simply not convinced. Perhaps you have listened to and read many arguments about why Jesus is the savior, but you find them unconvincing. Perhaps you just can't make yourself have faith. Do you publicly lie, accept Jesus as your lord and savior when you don't really believe it, and then you are saved? Do you lie to God? Won't God know that you don't believe? What then? How do you force yourself to believe something that you just don't?

If you are going to hell because you used the only tools that God gave you to decide whether or not Jesus is your savior, you come to an honest conclusion that he is not, and then God sends you to eternal condemnation, that seems a unfair. Also, watching other good people condemned to hell, doesn't seem exciting and exhilerating to me, even if I am saved.

 

 

 

Hell is merely being apart from God for all eternity. If you don't choose Him in this life, He won't force you to be with him in the afterlife.

 

 

But, seriously, and I mean this completely without snark, the poster you quoted stated that they cannot just 'choose to believe' something and that they have read the entire bible and their heart just doesn't go in that direction.

 

How can you just decide to believe something?

 

I grew up in church, have read the entire bible numerous times. I just NEVER ever believed it. I prayed and prayed and prayed to god to have faith, to believe it, I just can't.

 

I cannot force what is not there.

 

So some are just lucky and believe and the rest of us, even those who sincerely TRIED to believe it, have faith, etc. are just doomed?

 

:confused:

Edited July 6, 2009 by ThatCyndiGirl
Jorsay said it so well

[Garga]

So what if you know the story but just don't believe it? You may even want to have faith, but you just don't believe it. Perhaps you have read the entire bible word for word and you are simply not convinced. Perhaps you have listened to and read many arguments about why Jesus is the savior, but you find them unconvincing. Perhaps you just can't make yourself have faith. Do you publicly lie, accept Jesus as your lord and savior when you don't really believe it, and then you are saved? Do you lie to God? Won't God know that you don't believe? What then? How do you force yourself to believe something that you just don't?

 

If you are going to hell because you used the only tools that God gave you to decide whether or not Jesus is your savior, you come to an honest conclusion that he is not, and then God sends you to eternal condemnation, that seems a unfair. Also, watching other good people condemned to hell, doesn't seem exciting and exhilerating to me, even if I am saved.

 

Jesus died. The women went to dress his body (it had been put in the grave before being dressed because of religious law...they were going on the 3rd day of his death to dress it after the fact.) When the women got there, he wasn't in the tomb. Jesus himself appeared to one and showed her he had raised from the dead and was alive. The women told the disciples--they didn't believe the women.

 

Next, Jesus appears to 2 of the disciples on a road they were walking on. They talked for a long time and didn't recognize him at first, but then they did. Jesus disappeared and the 2 men ran back to the disciples saying that Jesus was alive. The other disciples didn't believe them.

 

Jesus finally appeared to all of the disciples except for Thomas. Later, the other disciples told Thomas that Jesus was alive. Thomas didn't believe them. He said, "I'll only believe it if I can put my hand in his wounds."

 

Then Jesus appeared to Thomas and said, "Go ahead! Touch my wounds! I'm alive." Then Thomas believed.

 

It's ok if you don't believe without seeing for yourself--none of the disciples believe w/o seeing. You cannot necessarily believe based on what everyone else around you sees. You need to pray a nice, honest prayer to God asking him to show YOU that he is real. He will show you.

 

That's what I did. I told Jesus he had a week to show me if he was real or not. He did. I won't go into how I came to believe here, because you can't use what God did for me to believe him. You need to ask him to show you that he loves you. He showed all the disciples, so it's not like he's hiding. It's his desire to show us who he is.

 

It's your turn to be the lost lamb. God will leave the 99 other sheep and come get you. Ask him to be there for you, in honesty and with a pure desire to know.

[Plucky]

Jorsay said:

 

 

Jorsay

So what if you know the story but just don't believe it? You may even want to have faith, but you just don't believe it. Perhaps you have read the entire bible word for word and you are simply not convinced. Perhaps you have listened to and read many arguments about why Jesus is the savior, but you find them unconvincing. Perhaps you just can't make yourself have faith. Do you publicly lie, accept Jesus as your lord and savior when you don't really believe it, and then you are saved? Do you lie to God? Won't God know that you don't believe? What then? How do you force yourself to believe something that you just don't?

If you are going to hell because you used the only tools that God gave you to decide whether or not Jesus is your savior, you come to an honest conclusion that he is not, and then God sends you to eternal condemnation, that seems a unfair. Also, watching other good people condemned to hell, doesn't seem exciting and exhilerating to me, even if I am saved.

 

 

 

 

 

 

But, seriously, and I mean this completely without snark, the poster you quoted stated that they cannot just 'choose to believe' something and that they have read the entire bible and their heart just doesn't go in that direction.

 

How can you just decide to believe something?

 

I grew up in church, have read the entire bible numerous times. I just NEVER ever believed it. I prayed and prayed and prayed to god to have faith, to believe it, I just can't.

 

I cannot force what is not there.

 

So some are just lucky and believe and the rest of us, even those who sincerely TRIED to believe it, have faith, etc. are just doomed?

 

:confused:

 

Have you exhausted all avenues to faith? Have you really searched to believe or do you look harder for ways to not believe? I was raised by anti-Christian parents. I wasn't raised Christian. After I was able to get past a lot of the "logical" arguments I'd been raised with I felt a joy and love like I'd never known. That to me has made all the difference.

 

I don't know that I understand how a non-believer can believe in hell and not God though. For me personally, the threat of hell wasn't a big motivator for my faith. I know for some that it is. God gave us life and the very breath we breathe. He lets us live even though we fail Him time and again. If he was fair, he might squash me like a bug (I am so not Christ-like). He is the definition of Love.

[ThatCyndiGirl]

It's ok if you don't believe without seeing for yourself--none of the disciples believe w/o seeing. You cannot necessarily believe based on what everyone else around you sees. You need to pray a nice, honest prayer to God asking him to show YOU that he is real. He will show you.

 

That's what I did. I told Jesus he had a week to show me if he was real or not. He did. I won't go into how I came to believe here, because you can't use what God did for me to believe him. You need to ask him to show you that he loves you. He showed all the disciples, so it's not like he's hiding. It's his desire to show us who he is.

 

It's your turn to be the lost lamb. God will leave the 99 other sheep and come get you. Ask him to be there for you, in honesty and with a pure desire to know.

 

 

I know that this wasn't directed at me, but.....

 

It's great that it worked out that way for YOU, but please know that there are many of us who tried the same thing and.....we still cannot believe.

 

It isn't because we are evil. Or rebellious. Or that we just "want our own way" (other possible explanations from other people, not you!).

 

It just is not there.

 

 

I know that I, personally have tried for years. I finally gave up and realized that it is just not in me. Maybe there really IS a "god gene" and I wasn't born with it.

 

That's finally okay with me because I'm not trying to fit someone else's mold. I realize that this also means that I don't fit in with my family and most of my friends, but it is what it is.

 

To answer Elaine:

 

Yes, I have exhausted all avenues to faith that I know of. I was NOT seeking ways to "prove there is no god", I was really trying to become part of christianity. I have prayed the sinner's prayer countless times!

 

I feel closest to Judaism, but refuse to circ my son just for my own sprirituality, so conversion is out.

 

I don't believe in a hell, so the whole, "how can you not believe in god, but still believe in a hell" question, for me, is moot.

 

For that matter, I don't believe in heaven, either.

 

I was there when my brother died. The nurse who pronounced him said, "He's with his daughter now". I thought,"uh, that's YOUR belief, not mine", but understood the warm sentiment behind it, so I just shrugged it off.

 

Thank you for attempting to understand where I am coming from and not being so "SHUN THE UNBELIEVER" like some I have known. It is appreciated!

Edited July 6, 2009 by ThatCyndiGirl
more to add

[BalanceSeeker]

It is hard to believe something you can't see. I can relate on a very deep level to this. For so long, God wasn't REAL to me. Everyone kept telling me just to have faith, and they were so moved by music and prayer, and I sat there looking around wondering what was wrong with me. I was void of any emotion and knew I didn't possess the faith they did.

 

But, faith like a mustard seed is all He asked for, so I took that and began asking for small signs of God's presence in my life.

 

I would pray for something only He could do, and I would see Him working. It took many, many times to convince me He was actually there. I'm talking really small things, and then there have been a few big ones. Just last week I had a co-worker (whom I normally get along with) give me the cold shoulder treatment without reason. Last time I spoke to her, everything was great. After two days of the cold shoulder, I said, "okay, God, look, I don't know what's going on with this person, but please intervene somehow. I really cannot deal with another 'problem' right now. Can you help?" Not 5 minutes later, we passed each other, and she began talking to me, as if someone just told her "knock it off!" I know this sounds stupid, but it meant so much to me. It was simply another way God showed he loves me, even in insignificant circumstances. It was one less headache in my life thanks to that prayer. It's been the little things like this that have built my faith over the years.

 

Now, I'm hook, line and sinker.

[BillieBoy]

I realize that your comments were directed to another poster so I hope you will forgive me addressing this point of yours, but I have heard of a recent phenomena that is happening all over Iran. Iran is one of those places where no missionaries are allowed to enter, but I have heard story after story about people in that country having visions and dreams of Christ appearing to them and they are being converted in that way. I cannot remember the exact statistics as I don't have them in front of me, but it was something like 15 years ago there were only about 500 known Christians in Iran and now there is something like over a million and many of them have converted through these visions and dreams.

 

Again I hope that you don't mind my jumping in on your reply to the other poster. I don't mean to step on any toes, but rather just share what I have heard in this regard. :)

 

Jumping is good! :001_smile:

 

Spycar is correct there has been a Christian presence in Iran since before it was Iran and it was way more than 500. When I lived in Saudi Arabia and traveled to Iran in the late 70's the population was estimated to be between 150-300,000 mostly of Armenian decent. CBN (a Christian news source) states that the current Christian population in Iran at 1/2 of 1 percent. With a population of 67 mil. that puts it around 330,000 or so.

 

But I still contend there will be places that Christianity will never be preached.

[Lovedtodeath]

Well, I am a skeptic and I have to thoroughly research everything before I have faith in it. Blind faith is not something that I have ever had I don't think. So I started by studying the subject of Evolution vs. Creation... then I went on to studying if their was a basis to believe that the Bible was written by God. Okay, so really the whole Bible? I researched each book separately. Now that I do have faith in the Bible, I scrutinize each and every belief/doctrine that is taught by comparing it to scriptures (and one scripture doesn't cut it ;) ). I have had circumstances in my life where I know God had to carry me through. I have evidence that the people providing spiritual food for me are God's people, so then I start to build faith into what they say (though I still scrutinize everything). Maybe my head is in it too much, but that is how it is for me.

[Lovedtodeath]

 

But I still contend there will be places that Christianity will never be preached.

Give me some.

[BillieBoy]

Give me some.

 

Mecca and Medina for starters. I've been to a Buddhist stronghold in the jungles of Vietnam run by monks that are very well disciplined in protection. No Christians are allowed past a certain point.

 

I believe my original point was that there are people as wholly immersed in their belief systems as Christians are in theirs. They are as adamant about keeping their faith as Christians are at pushing theirs at them. To the statement that the Christian word of God will reach all, in my opinion, is not a logistical possibility.

[Lovedtodeath]

Mecca and Medina for starters. I've been to a Buddhist stronghold in the jungles of Vietnam run by monks that are very well disciplined in protection. No Christians are allowed past a certain point.

 

I believe my original point was that there are people as wholly immersed in their belief systems as Christians are in theirs. They are as adamant about keeping their faith as Christians are at pushing theirs at them. To the statement that the Christian word of God will reach all, in my opinion, is not a logistical possibility.

In these threads, I really should just back away after my first post and let it be.

 

Not everyone will accept the true religion. If everyone did, then there would be no need for a great war of the almighty.

 

In the case of someone honestly not hearing the good news, I would assume that God has it under control. One of his outstanding qualities is justice. Either they will hear it before the end, or afterwards. It is my belief that when people have died without ever hearing the truth about God or Jesus they will hear about it after the resurrection.

Edited July 6, 2009 by Lovedtodeath
yes, I do know the proper use of there and their.

[BillieBoy]

In these threads, I really should just back away after my first post and let it be.

 

Not everyone will accept the true religion. If everyone did, then their would be no need for a great war of the almighty.

 

In the case of someone honestly not hearing the good news, I would assume that God has it under control. One of his outstanding qualities is justice. Either they will hear it before the end, or afterwards. It is my belief that when people have died without ever hearing the truth about God or Jesus they will hear about it after the resurrection.

 

All is good. And I do respect your point of view. :001_smile: I myself need to remember there are so many different beliefs and interuptaions of the bible within the Christian community that using "Christian" and "Christianity" may be a bit too encompassing and might even run into stereotyping. I apologize if it came across that way. :001_smile:

[Lovedtodeath]

Noazart, I read over a PP of yours... God is not going to judge anyone who has not had an adequate understanding. Of that I am sure. :)

I myself need to remember there are so many different beliefs and interuptaions of the bible within the Christian community that using "Christian" and "Christianity" may be a bit too encompassing

Drastically! Thanks for making me feel better.

[Ibbygirl]

Ibby??? :confused:

 

This is not correct. Christianity has had a very long presence in Iran. Many Christians have left Iran, and moved to my neighborhood (seriously) but the Christian faith and Christian communities have deep roots in Iran. And there are not a million Christians there now. And there weren't 500 15 years ago. Where did you come up with this? :tongue_smilie:

 

Bill

 

 

I didn't come up with this. I'm just passing along what I have heard. I have never been to Iran and have no first hand knowledge of these proselytes, but I have heard of these conversions from many different sources now so I am inclined to believe that these accounts are true. I have no doubts that Christianity has a long presence in Iran. It is a 2,000 year old religion, but to my understanding missionaries are not allowed into that country for the sake of proselytizing. BTW, all of these things I have heard from an Iranian pastor.

[Ibbygirl]

Jumping is good! :001_smile:

 

Spycar is correct there has been a Christian presence in Iran since before it was Iran and it was way more than 500. When I lived in Saudi Arabia and traveled to Iran in the late 70's the population was estimated to be between 150-300,000 mostly of Armenian decent. CBN (a Christian news source) states that the current Christian population in Iran at 1/2 of 1 percent. With a population of 67 mil. that puts it around 330,000 or so.

 

But I still contend there will be places that Christianity will never be preached.

 

 

Yes I saw Spy Car's comments and responded to them just now. As I said to him I have no doubts that Christianity has a long presence in Iran and the statistics, that I was relying on my memory to quote to you all, do not deny that Christians are there. The issue I was brining up really was not the number of Christians but rather that western missionaries are not allowed into that country to proselytize and yet there are many accounts of Iranians that I have heard of who are being saved through having visions and dreams of Christ appearing to them. I am not an expert on this topic, again as I said before I was just passing along what I have heard.

 

But I still contend there will be places that Christianity will never be preached.

 

I'm not trying to argue with you so please don't take this comment this way. Rather I just see the coin from a different side. While you may contend that there are places that Christianity will never be preached, and you certainly are entitled to believe whatever you want, I won't argue with your belief, but I still contend that there is nothing that is impossible for God. I don't think He needs any person to do anything on His behalf. He is big enough to do things for Himself and He does. There are a myriad of ways that God can appear to a person. I certainly wouldn't say "oh no He can't do that." I have heard these stories of Christ appearing to people in visions and dreams and those people are being saved. I have also heard stories of people who have had death experiences (and came back to life) and Christ appeared to them and gave them another chance. To me those stories just underscore for me the goodness and mercy of God that I myself have experienced. God appeared to me when I was 17, not in a vision, but He spoke to me and I was saved. I know that some may say that is crazy or whatever else they want to call it, but I am not a liar and I am not crazy. This year will be 20 years that I have been walking with God now and He has been an active presence in my life ever since that first day that I knew Him. And for the record, when I got saved it wasn't through the preaching of the Gospel. I heard Christ say to me, "Come to me all you who are weary and heavy laden and I will give you rest." and I just responded to God by saying "okay". That was it. I never said a sinner's prayer, the gospel wasn't even preached to me, but God spoke, I heard Him, I believed and I was radically changed in that moment. With God nothing is impossible.

Edited July 6, 2009 by Ibbygirl