calledtobehome Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 My husband and I started visiting a church and at last night service the pastor taught on the Holy Spirit and the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. I am a little confused but will try to do some scriptual study this weekend. What do you know or have been taught about the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Virginia Dawn Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 I've been taught that the Holy Spirit enters believers when we are baptized, which seems to agree with scripture. This is basically the Spirit of God which comforts us when we are troubled, encourages us when we are facing trials, and enables us to serve in various roles as Christians. We know we have the Spirit if we are bearing its fruit: Love, Joy, Peace, Patience, Gentleness and Self Control. There are other more mystical references to the Spirit, like those in Acts and a few other places. Those instances seem to have been for a particular purpose. I tend to shy away from any elaborate explanations that can't be easily backed up with scripture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakia Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 The Baptism of the Holy Spirit occurred for the first time at the Pentecost in the book of Acts. Start there. If you have more questions, I will try to answer them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie4b Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 My husband and I started visiting a church and at last night service the pastor taught on the Holy Spirit and the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. I am a little confused but will try to do some scriptual study this weekend. What do you know or have been taught about the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. Some churches teach that the Holy Spirit enters the believer when they believe. They may also teach that there are special fillings of the Spirit which may be specific experiences, but not that there is a 2 step method to being a full Christian. (Step 1: believe, repent, etc. Step 2 Be baptized with the Spirit.) Others teach that there is a two step process-that Baptism with the Spirit is a separate experience, typically manifested by speaking in tongues. I'm guessing that this church is the latter. The Scripture presented will be primarily from Acts. What you'll need to decide is whether the fact that the Spirit came a certain way in one situation as the Word spread to different peoples means that the Spirit always must come as a separate event. Some churches teach that descriptive events aren't prescriptive. IOW, just because something happens in Scripture, doesn't make it a pattern that is to be followed always. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alison in KY Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 The Holy Spirit is with you at the point you are saved (disciples received the Holy Spirit at John 20:22). The Baptism of the Holy Spirit is after salvation (or sometimes at the same time) when the Holy Spirit fills you and you receive power from the Holy Spirit (Acts 2). That's my short answer :001_smile:. I'm sure someone else can do much better, I'm still taking baby steps myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garga Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 The Holy Spirit is with you at the point you are saved (disciples received the Holy Spirit at John 20:22). The Baptism of the Holy Spirit is after salvation (or sometimes at the same time) when the Holy Spirit fills you and you receive power from the Holy Spirit (Acts 2). That's my short answer :001_smile:. I'm sure someone else can do much better, I'm still taking baby steps myself. Right. Read in Acts when the disciples were filled with the Spirit and compare their actions before and after. Before being filled, they were terrified of being killed like Jesus was. They'd run away and denied knowing who he was. They were hiding in a room with a locked door. Next thing they know: BOOM, they're filled. Within minutes they leave their hiding place, run out into the city, and start boldly shouting to everyone about salvation and about Jesus. When you're filled with the Holy Spirit, you're totally different from how you were before. It's the power of God working through you. The Holy Spirit helps you do things you wouldn't normally be able to do on your own (like the scared disciples suddenly getting this amazing boldness.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alison in KY Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 Right. Read in Acts when the disciples were filled with the Spirit and compare their actions before and after. Before being filled, they were terrified of being killed like Jesus was. They'd run away and denied knowing who he was. They were hiding in a room with a locked door. Next thing they know: BOOM, they're filled. Within minutes they leave their hiding place, run out into the city, and start boldly shouting to everyone about salvation and about Jesus. When you're filled with the Holy Spirit, you're totally different from how you were before. It's the power of God working through you. The Holy Spirit helps you do things you wouldn't normally be able to do on your own (like the scared disciples suddenly getting this amazing boldness.) Thanks and correct me if I'm wrong, but before this, He (Holy Spirit) is with you. So if you are a Christian, confessing that Jesus died for your sins, then the Holy Spirit is already there with you helping you (or maybe he is inside you, I get the with's and in's all messed up) but it's a whole other thing to be baptized with the Holy Spirit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calledtobehome Posted July 3, 2009 Author Share Posted July 3, 2009 I have read Acts 1:8 several times in my life. My understanding of the holy spirit is that once you give your heart to Christ you have the holy spirit dwelling in you. I was always a little confused about the Baptism of the holy spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues or unknown language. The Pastor did teach that God has many gifts for the believers and the ultimate gift is salvation but we should not stop there. He talked about speaking in another language as edifying oneself and that God gives us a prayer language that is to be used in our personal life with God. I will continue to study and search scripture. I know there will be a lot of different views on this topic but if anyone has any other scripture reference please feel free to share. Blessings, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alison in KY Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 1st Cor. 12 is about the gifts you receive when you receive the power (Baptism of the Holy Spirit). Our pastor has preached, with Bible references to back everything up (but I'm just terrible at remembering scripture) that you would be saved and have the Holy Spirit with/in you guiding you, Baptized with water (a spiritual re-birth), and the Baptism of the Holy Spirit (when the Holy Spirit comes upon you/covers you and you receive power). With the last, one of the common instant signs is speaking in tongues, or receiving a prayer language (from Acts 2), although I have asked a friend who believes she has the power of the Holy Spirit and yet she cannot speak in tongues. This gift is for everyone, however, there are other references to tongues (Cor. 12) where it's a diff. kind of gift that you would have where you could speak in tongues and it be interpreted in church...it's two different things (although sound similiar). Boy, our pastor would do so much better with this than I am. PM me if you want to. Alison Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alison in KY Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 I found this from our church, with alot of scripture references for you to check out. http://www.faithcenter.tv/cgi-bin/gx.cgi/AppLogic+FTContentServer?pagename=FaithHighway/10000/7000/793FA/believe I hope this helps, Alison Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapax Legomena Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 (edited) Here is a link to some messages that might interest: you:http://www.believerschapeldallas.org/OnlineMessages/SystematicTheology/tabid/122/Default.aspx. Number 74 speaks of the baptizing work of the Spirit, but several of the others deal with related issues. S. Lewis Johnson was a seminary professor at Dallas Seminary for many years and also taught a Sunday School class at Believer's Chapel. These online messages are recordings of those Sunday School classes. The site contains hundreds of his messages. Edited July 3, 2009 by Hapax Legomena Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharon in SC Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 1st Cor. 12 is about the gifts you receive when you receive the power (Baptism of the Holy Spirit). Our pastor has preached, with Bible references to back everything up (but I'm just terrible at remembering scripture) that you would be saved and have the Holy Spirit with/in you guiding you, Baptized with water (a spiritual re-birth), and the Baptism of the Holy Spirit (when the Holy Spirit comes upon you/covers you and you receive power). With the last, one of the common instant signs is speaking in tongues, or receiving a prayer language (from Acts 2), although I have asked a friend who believes she has the power of the Holy Spirit and yet she cannot speak in tongues. This gift is for everyone, however, there are other references to tongues (Cor. 12) where it's a diff. kind of gift that you would have where you could speak in tongues and it be interpreted in church...it's two different things (although sound similiar). Boy, our pastor would do so much better with this than I am. PM me if you want to. Alison Alison, I think you've done a fine job. :) I recommend for further study that the OP look at the Full Life Study Bible. It draws out particular scripture/study that looks more closely at the passages that speak to a "spirit filled" life. A study titled "Baptism in the Holy Spirit" speaks to this (forgive typos as I've typed this hurriedly): 1) The baptism in the Spirit is intended for all who profess faith in Christ, have been born again, and have received the indwelling of the Spirit (occurs at the point of salvation, belief in Christ as your Lord and Saviour) 2) The baptism in the HS is an operation of the Spirit distinct and separate from his work of regeneration. The baptism in the Spirit complements the regenrating and sanctifying work of the Spirit. On the day of Christ's resurrection he breathed on his disciples and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit" (Jn 20:22), indicating that regeneration and new life were being given to them. Then later he told them they must also be "clothed with power" by the HS (Lk 24:49, Ac 1:5,8). For the disciples it was clearly a post-regeneration experience. One can be regenerated and indwelt by the HS,but still not be baptized in the HS (see Ac 19:6, Jn 16:7-14, Ac 1:4) 3)To be baptized in the Spirit means to be filled with the spirit (compare Ac 1:5; 2:4). However, this baptism occurred only at and after Pentecost. Concerning those filled with the Spirit before Pentecost (Lk 1:15,67), Luke does not use the term baptized in the HS. This would occur only after Christ's ascension (Lk 24:49-51; Jn 16:7-14; Ac 1:4) 4) In the book of Acts, speaking in tongues as the Spirit gives utterance is the initial outward sign accompanying the baptism in the HS (Ac 2:4; 10:45-46; 19:6). 5) The baptism in the HS will bring the personal boldness and power of the Spirit into the believer's life in order to accomplish mighty works in Christ's name (Ac 1:8; 2;14-41; 4:31; 6:8; Ro 15:18-19; 1Co 2:4). This power is not some impersonal force but is a manifestation of the HS by which Jesus and his glory and wors are present with his people (Jn 14:16-18; 16:14; 1Co 12:7) 6) Other results of a genuine baptism in the HS are: a) prophetic utterances and declarations of praise (Ac 2:4,17; 10:46; 1Co 14:2); b) enhanced sensitivity to sin that grieves the HS, a greater seeking after righteousness adn a deeper awareness of God's judgment against ungodliness (Jn 16:8, note; Ac 1:8, note); c) a life that brings glory to Jesus Christ (Jn 16:13-14; Ac 4:33); d) new visions (Ac 2:17); e) manifestation of the various gifts of the Spirit (1 Co 12:4-10); f) a greater desire to pray (Ac 2:41-42; 3:1; 4:23-31; 6:4; 10:9; Ro 8:26); g) a deeper love and understanding of God's word (Jn 16:13; Ac 2:42); and h) an increasing awareness of God as one's Father (Ac 1:4; Ro 8:15; Gal 4:6). 7) God's Word cites several conditions by which the baptism in the HS is given. a) we must accept by faith Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour and turn from sin and the world (Ac 2:38-40; 8:12-17). This involvese surrendering our wills to God ("to those who obey him," Ac 5:32). We must turn from that which offends God before we can be "an isntrument for noble purpsoes, made holy, useful to the Master" (2Ti 2:21). b) We must desire to be filled. Christians should have a deep hunger for the baptism in the Spirit (Jn 7:37039; Mt 5:6; 6:33). c) We often receive this baptism in answer to prayer (Lk 11:13; Ac 1:14; 2:1-4; 4:31; 8:15,17). d) We should expect taht God will baptize us in the HS (Mk 11:24, Ac 1:4-5). 8) The baptism in the HS is sustained in the believer's life by prayer ( Ac 4:31), witness (4:31,33), worship in thet Spirit (Eph 5:18-19) and a sanctified life. However powerful the initial coming of the HS on the believer may be, if this does not find expression in a life of prayer, witness and holiness, the experience will soon become a fading glory. 9) The baptism in the Spirit occurs only once in a believer's life adn points to the consecrating of the believer to God's work of witnessing in power and righteousness. The Bible teaches that there maybe new fillings with the HS after the believer has been baptized in the Spirit (see Ac 4:31, note; cf 2:4, 4:8,31; 13:9; Eph 5:18). Thus, the baptism in the Spirit brings the believer into a relationshiop with the Spirit that is to be renews (Ac 4:31) and maintained (Eph 5:18). My personal note: To be clear, the HS dwells within an individual at the point of belief (salvation through faith in Jesus). Past that, the baptism in the HS (as described above) is not necessary to secure eternal salvation. The baptism is an added gift from God. Personally, through baptism in the HS, I have found greater discernment available to me, greater comfort in times of trouble, and the knowledge that, for those times in life when I just don't know how to pray, the HS (who DOES know how to pray) prays through me (gift of tongues). I hope you will find something in this helpful as you endeavor to better understand this mighty gift of God. Blessings, Sharon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmacnchs Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 You are filled with the Holy Spirit when you are saved. Baptism is just like announcing it/making it known to others that you are saved. Most of the mentions of baptism in the Bible talk about Believe (1) and then be baptized (2). There are a couple of times it talks of Baptism first but it is referring to what the Jews did preJesus...where they washed themselves before they presented themselves at the temple...they prepared their bodies for worship. PostJesus Baptism/washing is more symbolic of what Jesus has done for you (in that He saved you). That is what I remember of our study in Deuteronomy, although that was a couple of years ago so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alison in KY Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 Alison, I think you've done a fine job. :) I recommend for further study that the OP look at the Full Life Study Bible. It draws out particular scripture/study that looks more closely at the passages that speak to a "spirit filled" life. A study titled "Baptism in the Holy Spirit" speaks to this (forgive typos as I've typed this hurriedly): 1) The baptism in the Spirit is intended for all who profess faith in Christ, have been born again, and have received the indwelling of the Spirit (occurs at the point of salvation, belief in Christ as your Lord and Saviour) 2) The baptism in the HS is an operation of the Spirit distinct and separate from his work of regeneration. The baptism in the Spirit complements the regenrating and sanctifying work of the Spirit. On the day of Christ's resurrection he breathed on his disciples and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit" (Jn 20:22), indicating that regeneration and new life were being given to them. Then later he told them they must also be "clothed with power" by the HS (Lk 24:49, Ac 1:5,8). For the disciples it was clearly a post-regeneration experience. One can be regenerated and indwelt by the HS,but still not be baptized in the HS (see Ac 19:6, Jn 16:7-14, Ac 1:4) 3)To be baptized in the Spirit means to be filled with the spirit (compare Ac 1:5; 2:4). However, this baptism occurred only at and after Pentecost. Concerning those filled with the Spirit before Pentecost (Lk 1:15,67), Luke does not use the term baptized in the HS. This would occur only after Christ's ascension (Lk 24:49-51; Jn 16:7-14; Ac 1:4) 4) In the book of Acts, speaking in tongues as the Spirit gives utterance is the initial outward sign accompanying the baptism in the HS (Ac 2:4; 10:45-46; 19:6). 5) The baptism in the HS will bring the personal boldness and power of the Spirit into the believer's life in order to accomplish mighty works in Christ's name (Ac 1:8; 2;14-41; 4:31; 6:8; Ro 15:18-19; 1Co 2:4). This power is not some impersonal force but is a manifestation of the HS by which Jesus and his glory and wors are present with his people (Jn 14:16-18; 16:14; 1Co 12:7) 6) Other results of a genuine baptism in the HS are: a) prophetic utterances and declarations of praise (Ac 2:4,17; 10:46; 1Co 14:2); b) enhanced sensitivity to sin that grieves the HS, a greater seeking after righteousness adn a deeper awareness of God's judgment against ungodliness (Jn 16:8, note; Ac 1:8, note); c) a life that brings glory to Jesus Christ (Jn 16:13-14; Ac 4:33); d) new visions (Ac 2:17); e) manifestation of the various gifts of the Spirit (1 Co 12:4-10); f) a greater desire to pray (Ac 2:41-42; 3:1; 4:23-31; 6:4; 10:9; Ro 8:26); g) a deeper love and understanding of God's word (Jn 16:13; Ac 2:42); and h) an increasing awareness of God as one's Father (Ac 1:4; Ro 8:15; Gal 4:6). 7) God's Word cites several conditions by which the baptism in the HS is given. a) we must accept by faith Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour and turn from sin and the world (Ac 2:38-40; 8:12-17). This involvese surrendering our wills to God ("to those who obey him," Ac 5:32). We must turn from that which offends God before we can be "an isntrument for noble purpsoes, made holy, useful to the Master" (2Ti 2:21). b) We must desire to be filled. Christians should have a deep hunger for the baptism in the Spirit (Jn 7:37039; Mt 5:6; 6:33). c) We often receive this baptism in answer to prayer (Lk 11:13; Ac 1:14; 2:1-4; 4:31; 8:15,17). d) We should expect taht God will baptize us in the HS (Mk 11:24, Ac 1:4-5). 8) The baptism in the HS is sustained in the believer's life by prayer ( Ac 4:31), witness (4:31,33), worship in thet Spirit (Eph 5:18-19) and a sanctified life. However powerful the initial coming of the HS on the believer may be, if this does not find expression in a life of prayer, witness and holiness, the experience will soon become a fading glory. 9) The baptism in the Spirit occurs only once in a believer's life adn points to the consecrating of the believer to God's work of witnessing in power and righteousness. The Bible teaches that there maybe new fillings with the HS after the believer has been baptized in the Spirit (see Ac 4:31, note; cf 2:4, 4:8,31; 13:9; Eph 5:18). Thus, the baptism in the Spirit brings the believer into a relationshiop with the Spirit that is to be renews (Ac 4:31) and maintained (Eph 5:18). My personal note: To be clear, the HS dwells within an individual at the point of belief (salvation through faith in Jesus). Past that, the baptism in the HS (as described above) is not necessary to secure eternal salvation. The baptism is an added gift from God. Personally, through baptism in the HS, I have found greater discernment available to me, greater comfort in times of trouble, and the knowledge that, for those times in life when I just don't know how to pray, the HS (who DOES know how to pray) prays through me (gift of tongues). I hope you will find something in this helpful as you endeavor to better understand this mighty gift of God. Blessings, Sharon :DThanks, and this is what I meant to say :D WOW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakia Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 Alison, I think you've done a fine job. :) I recommend for further study that the OP look at the Full Life Study Bible. It draws out particular scripture/study that looks more closely at the passages that speak to a "spirit filled" life. A study titled "Baptism in the Holy Spirit" speaks to this (forgive typos as I've typed this hurriedly): 1) The baptism in the Spirit is intended for all who profess faith in Christ, have been born again, and have received the indwelling of the Spirit (occurs at the point of salvation, belief in Christ as your Lord and Saviour) 2) The baptism in the HS is an operation of the Spirit distinct and separate from his work of regeneration. The baptism in the Spirit complements the regenrating and sanctifying work of the Spirit. On the day of Christ's resurrection he breathed on his disciples and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit" (Jn 20:22), indicating that regeneration and new life were being given to them. Then later he told them they must also be "clothed with power" by the HS (Lk 24:49, Ac 1:5,8). For the disciples it was clearly a post-regeneration experience. One can be regenerated and indwelt by the HS,but still not be baptized in the HS (see Ac 19:6, Jn 16:7-14, Ac 1:4) 3)To be baptized in the Spirit means to be filled with the spirit (compare Ac 1:5; 2:4). However, this baptism occurred only at and after Pentecost. Concerning those filled with the Spirit before Pentecost (Lk 1:15,67), Luke does not use the term baptized in the HS. This would occur only after Christ's ascension (Lk 24:49-51; Jn 16:7-14; Ac 1:4) 4) In the book of Acts, speaking in tongues as the Spirit gives utterance is the initial outward sign accompanying the baptism in the HS (Ac 2:4; 10:45-46; 19:6). 5) The baptism in the HS will bring the personal boldness and power of the Spirit into the believer's life in order to accomplish mighty works in Christ's name (Ac 1:8; 2;14-41; 4:31; 6:8; Ro 15:18-19; 1Co 2:4). This power is not some impersonal force but is a manifestation of the HS by which Jesus and his glory and wors are present with his people (Jn 14:16-18; 16:14; 1Co 12:7) 6) Other results of a genuine baptism in the HS are: a) prophetic utterances and declarations of praise (Ac 2:4,17; 10:46; 1Co 14:2); b) enhanced sensitivity to sin that grieves the HS, a greater seeking after righteousness adn a deeper awareness of God's judgment against ungodliness (Jn 16:8, note; Ac 1:8, note); c) a life that brings glory to Jesus Christ (Jn 16:13-14; Ac 4:33); d) new visions (Ac 2:17); e) manifestation of the various gifts of the Spirit (1 Co 12:4-10); f) a greater desire to pray (Ac 2:41-42; 3:1; 4:23-31; 6:4; 10:9; Ro 8:26); g) a deeper love and understanding of God's word (Jn 16:13; Ac 2:42); and h) an increasing awareness of God as one's Father (Ac 1:4; Ro 8:15; Gal 4:6). 7) God's Word cites several conditions by which the baptism in the HS is given. a) we must accept by faith Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour and turn from sin and the world (Ac 2:38-40; 8:12-17). This involvese surrendering our wills to God ("to those who obey him," Ac 5:32). We must turn from that which offends God before we can be "an isntrument for noble purpsoes, made holy, useful to the Master" (2Ti 2:21). b) We must desire to be filled. Christians should have a deep hunger for the baptism in the Spirit (Jn 7:37039; Mt 5:6; 6:33). c) We often receive this baptism in answer to prayer (Lk 11:13; Ac 1:14; 2:1-4; 4:31; 8:15,17). d) We should expect taht God will baptize us in the HS (Mk 11:24, Ac 1:4-5). 8) The baptism in the HS is sustained in the believer's life by prayer ( Ac 4:31), witness (4:31,33), worship in thet Spirit (Eph 5:18-19) and a sanctified life. However powerful the initial coming of the HS on the believer may be, if this does not find expression in a life of prayer, witness and holiness, the experience will soon become a fading glory. 9) The baptism in the Spirit occurs only once in a believer's life adn points to the consecrating of the believer to God's work of witnessing in power and righteousness. The Bible teaches that there maybe new fillings with the HS after the believer has been baptized in the Spirit (see Ac 4:31, note; cf 2:4, 4:8,31; 13:9; Eph 5:18). Thus, the baptism in the Spirit brings the believer into a relationshiop with the Spirit that is to be renews (Ac 4:31) and maintained (Eph 5:18). My personal note: To be clear, the HS dwells within an individual at the point of belief (salvation through faith in Jesus). Past that, the baptism in the HS (as described above) is not necessary to secure eternal salvation. The baptism is an added gift from God. Personally, through baptism in the HS, I have found greater discernment available to me, greater comfort in times of trouble, and the knowledge that, for those times in life when I just don't know how to pray, the HS (who DOES know how to pray) prays through me (gift of tongues). I hope you will find something in this helpful as you endeavor to better understand this mighty gift of God. Blessings, Sharon Beautiful post! Thanks Sharon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapax Legomena Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 Sharon has nicely presented the Pentecostal/charismatic view concerning the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. Those who do not find that view compelling raise several points: 1. The Apostle Paul states that all believers have been baptized by the Holy Spirit: “For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit” (1 Cor 12:13). 2. When Paul makes that statement, the “we all” includes the Corinthians. The church at Corinth was not an example of mature Christianity; even so, Paul tells us that they had received this baptism too. 3. The Bible does not support the idea that this baptism is confirmed by speaking in tongues. Paul asks the question, “All are not apostles, are they?” (1 Cor 12:29). The expected answer is “No, they are not.” The reason we know that the expected answer is “No” is because of the use of the Greek word “me.” If Paul had intended a positive answer, he would have used “ou.” He goes on to ask, “All do not speak with tongues, do they?” (1 Cor 12:30). Again, the expected answer is “no.” Therefore, the text indicates that we all were baptized by the Spirit into one body, but not all speak in tongues. 4. The baptism of the Spirit is the phrase used to describe the Spirit’s work in placing believers into the body of Christ at the moment they believe in Christ. 5. There are no verses in the Bible specifically stating that we should seek a second baptism of the Holy Spirit. 6. The later passages concerning the gifts do not include the gift of speaking in tongues. For that reason, there is the suggestion that the practice of speaking in tongues was not a prominent part of the spiritual life of New Testament believers. 7. This view of speaking in tongues is confirmed by history. There is considerable support for the idea that the practice of speaking in tongues disappeared after the apostolic age. There is much more that could be said about this topic, but these points provide some preliminary Biblical concepts to consider. I do not raise these points to quibble with my Pentecostal/charismatic friends but merely to present an alternate view you may wish to consider as you explore this matter further. On both sides of this issue there are Christians who love the Lord and wish to walk with Him in these days. Much has been written on this topic. I am sure the Internet is full of various articles that further express and discuss this issue. On this 4th of July I am thankful to live in a place where we freedom to express theological viewpoints openly and without fear of reprisal that is currently taking place in some spots around the world. Most of all I am glad to be free in Christ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMom2One Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 Sharon, your post is so right on! Once again, your eloquence and clarity are an inspiration to me. Thank you so much for your sharing your wisdom and understanding on this forum. Blessings, Lucinda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharon in SC Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 (edited) On both sides of this issue there are Christians who love the Lord and wish to walk with Him in these days. Hello. I am only just now realizing this response to what I've written but, in the face of pressing responsibilities here at home, I wanted to at the very least respond with this - I think you have most respectfully and politely shared a divergent view on the baptism of the Holy Spirit. For that I want to express a sincere "thank you." :) For now, without the time to speak to what you've felt led to share, I am thankful that we can count on the Lord to do what He does so very well - guide us, and direct us, counsel us and watch over us, instruct us and show us the way that we're to go, according to His plans and purposes for each one of our lives. I am confident that He is always at work to enable His people to walk worthy of the call He has placed upon their lives and I find *that* is something to rejoice over! :) Blessings to you, my friend, Sharon Edited July 5, 2009 by Sharon in SC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharon in SC Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 Sharon, your post is so right on! Once again, your eloquence and clarity are an inspiration to me. Thank you so much for your sharing your wisdom and understanding on this forum. Blessings, Lucinda Your words of encouragement are valued. Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeckyFL Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 "Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost. And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money" (Acts 8:17-18). "And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost" (Acts 9:17). "And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied" (Acts 19:6). VII. The normal order of events. "Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied" (Acts 19:4-6 ). Here we find a normal order of events. First, we assume that after Paul preached Jesus to these disciples of John the Baptist that they did believe and were born of the Spirit. Second, they were baptized in water (immersed) as an act of obedience as new Believers. Third, Paul laid his hands upon them, and they received (were baptized in) the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues and prophesying. I can tell you also that I have experienced a vast before/after difference in receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit. I was a Christian, God was my main focus, I truly loved the Lord but I did struggle with how I could ever REALLY love Him more than my own earthly family although I knew that I should. After the baptism of the Holy Spirit some 20 years ago, I can say that I no longer struggle with that. I have a deeper level of intimacy with Him and it truly has been life-changing. After that, I wondered as I read the Word how I could have missed seeing all of this. It's all through the Bible. 1 Corinthians 14 is dedicated to the instructions to keep it all in balance, but verse 39 is clear that we are not to forbid this. I have often thought that the enemy would have liked to have kept me in ignorance about the whole thing. He was certainly able to knock me around more. If he can have us thinking this is something in the word that's not for us, he's got it made. But Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever and I'm so glad that he has blessed me with this gift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peek a Boo Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 I can tell you also that I have experienced a vast before/after difference in receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit. I was a Christian, God was my main focus, I truly loved the Lord but I did struggle with how I could ever REALLY love Him more than my own earthly family although I knew that I should. After the baptism of the Holy Spirit some 20 years ago, I can say that I no longer struggle with that. I believe that --like the discussion about baptism/ communion differences-- different people need different things in their life, and God provides that. Some people grow up in a Christian home always knowing Christ as their Lord and Savior. Some are adopted into the family a bit later and that moment of salvation is a marked difference they will always remember. Some Christians receive the baptism of the HS at the time of salvation, some may have always had it, and some [like Becky] may note a specific change in their life and faith after their salvation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakia Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 I believe that --like the discussion about baptism/ communion differences-- different people need different things in their life, and God provides that. Some people grow up in a Christian home always knowing Christ as their Lord and Savior. Some are adopted into the family a bit later and that moment of salvation is a marked difference they will always remember. Some Christians receive the baptism of the HS at the time of salvation, some may have always had it, and some [like Becky] may note a specific change in their life and faith after their salvation. Hi Peek, would you mind providing scriptural reference for the part of your response that I bolded? I've never heard that before. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peek a Boo Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 Hi Peek, would you mind providing scriptural reference for the part of your response that I bolded? I've never heard that before. Thanks! i should have clarified "from infancy"-- Some Christians receive the baptism of the HS at the time of salvation, when they are baptized/ receive Christ/ however you want to phrase it, some may have always had it, from infancy --infant baptism [there's all kinds of scriptural references for that out there] and some [like Becky] may note a specific change in their life and faith after their salvation. whether they were baptized as an infant or later in life, a noticeable change in their faith. hope that helps :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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