helena Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 What are the pros and cons? How long does it take to complete a workbook. Is it a complete curriculum? Quote

birchbark Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 Miquon was originally not intended to be a complete curriculum, but rather a supplement for "hands on" time. However, many people, me included, have successfully used it as the main curriculum because of its many wonderful qualities. We have done two books per year, which I believe is the recommended rate. We have found it to be a nice gentle pace. Pros: Children learn by the discovery method, which is one of the most effective. There is basically no teaching in the workbooks. They learn by working with the rods, and progressing through the worksheets. For better or worse, memorizing abstract facts is not part of the program. It incorporates manipulatives (Cuisinaire rods), but does not use them for every single exercise. It teaches to think mathematically. You can progress by topic, or by level of difficulty It is economical. Cons: Little to no drill Not well explained for either teacher or student. Most pages are intuitive, but if both teacher and student have an esp difficult time with math, it may not be for you Here's a review from Timberdoodle's website: For 30 years, the Miquon Math Materials have offered children a friendly invitation to the world of mathematics. Based on the belief that mathematical insight grows out of observation, investigation, and the discovery of patterns, the six workbooks of the Miquon Math Materials lead children through an exploration of mathematical relationships. Concrete models are not supplements to the written work but instead are the basis of it and are used continuously. Miquon Math introduces all four arithmetic operations and work with fractions in the first year. By the third year, students are graphing algebraic equations. Miquon Math gives children the basic tools early so that they can be independent problem solvers from the first day of school. Experiences in building models for concepts precede and prepare children for all written work. Cuisenaire Rods support materials can be great supplements but do not provide a complete year's curriculum. If you have seen the benefits of Cuisenaire Rods as a visual/manipulative aid and would like them to be naturally incorporated into a comprehensive math program, this is the curriculum for you. Cuisenaire Rods are the basis of and are used throughout Miquon Math. Originally utilized in the 1960's for first through third grades, however because of the dumbing down of most texts and national tests, in many ways Miquon covers what are now considered 5th and 6th grade topics. Miquon remains one of our favorites for teaching elementary math because of price, scope and sequence, and most importantly, the skills taught. Quote

Spy Car Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 I think I'll be eternally grateful we started my son's math experience with Miquon and Cuisenaire Rods. And grateful for the insights, inspiration and sense of confidence the teacher's materials gave me. I love how Miquon mixes very concrete ways of learning (though creative use of manipulatives) with seeming "strange" (on first glance) lab-sheets. In another thread I joke when I first opened the lab-sheets they looked like an alien IQ test to me. At first. But it all quickly made sense. Miquon is brilliant in that it gets young children to really think. Math becomes interesting and fun. It's challenging but the children have to tools to the solution, so they are intrigued rather than frustrated. Things like how long you move through a lab-book is a kind of un-Miquonish question. You may not exactly move through a lab-book. You may jump around. Or (as encouraged) you may riff on their lab-sheets with many of your own creation. I think I made more of my own lab-sheets that we used from the books. Again this is a good thing (not a deficiency). I feel my son was exposed to something very unique. A critical thinking way of looking at math, that's fun. That's parent involved, but student "solved". And a math program that was very developmentally appropriate. And my world, as a "math teacher" was changed forever. We've added may other elements to our math mix since starting Miquon. In part because he developed a joy of math after starting Miquon, and in part because I became inspired to show him even more and interesting ways to learn. There will always be a vey warm place in my heart for Miquon. It's not an exaggeration to call it "life-changing" for us. The 3 teachers books are critical. And the First Grade Diary was a favorite, as it takes the Miquon author through the program with real kids for a year. It's almost like having a gifted mentor at ones side. unfortunately this book is often neglected as "unessential" when my feeling is it is the most essential book in the whole program. HTHs Bill Quote

Mallory Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 My oldest finished Miquon earlier this year. For the past few years we have done some other math (dominos, geoboards, games, ect.), but Miquon was our main curriculum. He had to take standardized testing this year for the first time and got the 91 percentile on the math part. There were sections he got 100 percent correct. We have really enjoyed Miquon! Although, if you want something laid out for you with lots, okay with any hand holding, Miquon is probably not for you. We moved the pretty standard pace of 2 books a year (maybe a little more). You will not get as much from this program if you see it as six workbooks to get through. It is about playing aound with number relationships and seeing patterns in numbers. The workbooks are more of an evaluation after they learned it some other way (playing with the rods), especially for the first 3 or 4 books. Quote

Whereneverever Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 We love Miquon. My daughter calls it math games- it's fun and non threatening and a perfect way to introduce formal math studies, IMO. Quote

Ali in OR Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 I think I'm the lone dissenter around here on Miquon. I wasn't crazy about it. And I'm a former math teacher, so it's not a problem of understanding what they're doing, I just prefer a different approach. There is some value to playing around with Cuisenaire rods to gain a visual understanding of math concepts. What I didn't like about Miquon is that there are excellent models of how to approach certain math topics and you might never get there with Miquon. The method my kids "discover" for solving a problem may work, but not be the best or most elegant way to get there. I no longer have the books, but I remember being frustrated with the first book for throwing out addition problems that summed into the teens and twenties without any approach available other than rods. For my systematically-minded brain (and the dd I used this with thinks and learns a lot like I do), I much prefer Singapore's approach. It teaches kids how to think about the problems. The example I always use is how to add 8+6, because the only method I learned as a kid was rote memorization and this is the one combination I had the most trouble remembering. With Singapore, you learn how to re-think the problem to involve a 10. And of course it is easy to add anything to 10. So you look at 8+6 and think "What do I need to add to make that 8 a 10? I need to add 2 (you and your kids need to know number bonds up to and especially including 10 very well). I will think of that 6 as 2+4, use the 2 to make the 8 a 10, and then it's very easy to add the 4 to the 10 and get 14." After sufficient practice, your brain can do this in an instant and you are never left trying to remember what 8+6 is or counting on your fingers. You have a powerful method that will be so useful as you work in mathematics. We only worked through that first Miquon book, but my impression is that you could learn how to do problems but miss seeing powerful, elegant ways to solve them. I know others disagree, but that was the impression I got from our 1 semester with Miquon. Quote

FO4UR Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 We love Miquon here! The rods are truly priceless! I think most people who don't "get" Miquon didn't have enough time just playing with the rods. By the time we actually started "mathing", my ds had played with rods casually for months. It was extremely natural to translate the value of the rods to the numeral symbol. Even now, his ability to work with rod values FAR exceeds his ability to work with the numeral symbols. (He can tell me how many red rods =orange, even though I've never introduced him to multiplication formally. He knows that 5 reds is the same length as 2 yellow....and on and on....) Ali - my ds uses both Miquon and Singapore. He used that orange rod (=10) to find sums when we were adding over 10. It is identical to the SM number bonds.....in fact I don't think I could have taught number bonds to my ds without C.rod....:001_huh::lol: I've had experiences where ds would have a mental block on a math page, I'd begin to pull out the rods and he would shout "STOP, I KNOW IT" Sure enough, he knew....I asked him how he knew the answer, and he told me that he *saw* the rod answer in his head. It's like a mental set of manipulatives:D I can't brag enough on Miquon!!! You must read the First Grade Diary - spend a month with it, just letting your dc play with rods BEFORE bringing out any workbook pages!!!! Quote

Scuff Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 I wanted to love Miquon. I really, really did. I really didn't like the way the TM was organized. I get why they did it that way, but it was a huge hurdle. I'd rather have it seperated by books so that I could easily find what I needed. I also didn't like how the TM was so dependant. DS did enjoy the first book. He often wanted to do it. Had I been a little more seasoned, it probably would've worked, but being new to hsing at the time I switched to something easier to follow. As I type this, I half wish I hadn't sold it. DDs would probably have enjoyed it as well. Quote

yslek Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 I really liked Miquon. It would have been perfect for me as a child. For B, however, it was an absolute disaster. He hated "playing" around with the rods (unless it was to build towers & knock them down), had zero interest in making up his own problems, and slogged through the lab sheets like they were torture. He worked all the way through the orange book, and partway through the red before I gave up on Miquon with him. The breaking point came when he was in tears about math (again) because he couldn't get that 10+1 was 11 and not 2. I had him build 10+1 and 1+1 to see how much longer 10+1 was. He agreed that it was much longer than 1+1, and that 1+1 was definitely as long as a 2 (red) rod, then immediately wrote "2" for his answer to 10+1 anyway. At that point I decided that it wasn't worth making my boy hate math over using a program that I thought was really great. We took a short break, and then I learned about MUS. The first lesson was in place value, which was perfect. We are both really glad we switched to something that connects with his brain. (He doesn't intuit well...in any situation, really. He needs someone to explain: this is how it works, and then he can go from there. Miquon is all about discovering mathematical concepts...not a good fit for him!) B still remember Miquon as "the horrible math". :tongue_smilie: I know of two other people who have had experiences with Miquon. One of my friends used this with her two oldest dds for years, but they all expressed frustration with math, and didn't really understand what they were doing. She ended up switching to MUS, too, and the girls are much happier now (although they still don't love math!) Another acquaintance had the opposite experience. She started off using ACE's math program, and had her dd in tears every day over math. She switched to Miquon and found that her dd was actually beginning to understand what she was doing. So I think a lot of it depends on your child. I think Miquon probably would have worked very well for T, but I was on to new things by then. ;) Like I said, I think I would have loved this program as a child. HTH Quote

Spy Car Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 , I much prefer Singapore's approach. It teaches kids how to think about the problems. The example I always use is how to add 8+6, because the only method I learned as a kid was rote memorization and this is the one combination I had the most trouble remembering. With Singapore, you learn how to re-think the problem to involve a 10. And of course it is easy to add anything to 10. So you look at 8+6 and think "What do I need to add to make that 8 a 10? I need to add 2 (you and your kids need to know number bonds up to and especially including 10 very well). This is where I'm scratching my head. First, building different ways to make a value (as stacked "trains") is exactly the same concept as "number bonds" in Singapore. Just in "concrete" terms. And children do this over in over in Miquon. So I can't for the life of me imagine a better precursor to "number bonds" and the Singapore method. To me it was one of Miquon's greatest strengths. And we used this same concept with rods to reconstruct values around "10". That's how we arrived at the sum. Just like Singapore. Only with rods. I appreciate that not every child is going to necessarily respond the same way to a given approach, but I'm perplexed that you found a "weakness" where i found one of the greatest strengths. Bill Quote

Spy Car Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 We love Miquon here! The rods are truly priceless! I think most people who don't "get" Miquon didn't have enough time just playing with the rods. By the time we actually started "mathing", my ds had played with rods casually for months. It was extremely natural to translate the value of the rods to the numeral symbol. Even now, his ability to work with rod values FAR exceeds his ability to work with the numeral symbols. (He can tell me how many red rods =orange, even though I've never introduced him to multiplication formally. He knows that 5 reds is the same length as 2 yellow....and on and on....) Ali - my ds uses both Miquon and Singapore. He used that orange rod (=10) to find sums when we were adding over 10. It is identical to the SM number bonds.....in fact I don't think I could have taught number bonds to my ds without C.rod....:001_huh::lol: I've had experiences where ds would have a mental block on a math page, I'd begin to pull out the rods and he would shout "STOP, I KNOW IT" Sure enough, he knew....I asked him how he knew the answer, and he told me that he *saw* the rod answer in his head. It's like a mental set of manipulatives:D I can't brag enough on Miquon!!! You must read the First Grade Diary - spend a month with it, just letting your dc play with rods BEFORE bringing out any workbook pages!!!! Boy are we on the same page :D Quote

FO4UR Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 Boy are we on the same page :D :iagree: I know different maths will suit different kids. My ds6 is a very spatial thinker. Those C.rods just make the concepts "click" for him. It's not going to work for every kid, but I think it will benefit most kids to some degree, *given* that the child has enough free play with the rods to "befriend" them. If you want to try Miquon, commit to free play with rods (no mommy input allowed for a month) and understanding the heart behind the method (First Grade Diary;)). It isn't at all *leaving* a kid to discover for themselves, every.single.concept. (I think that is another misconception....) It's *leading* them to discover these things. Big difference imho. Quote

Lori D. Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 Older math-minded son did very well with Miquon and we used it as his sole math our first year of homeschooling (he was 2nd grade). He went on to Singapore and did very well with that, too. Younger son struggled with math, but of all the various programs we tried, he made more of a connection with Miquon than any other. We used it one year as his sole math, and then the next 2 years as a supplement. *I* learned a lot using Miquon -- made a lot of math connections, and really loved the flexibility of the program. Partly due to our experiences with Miquon, I am now a big proponent of using 2 different math programs to be able to learn more than one "viewpoint" or way of connecting with math -- especially in those K-5th years. One person mentioned not "getting" some of the worksheets. The earliest workbook had just a few "mysterious" worksheets to me (couldn't quite figure out how we supposed to use them, even looking at the Lab Annotations), but we just skipped those. Another person also mentioned they did not "get" the TM (Lab Annotations) or like the layout. I had no problems with it -- however, I also rarely use ANY program's TM -- I like to just dive in and learn by doing -- so that's never been a hinderance for me. :tongue_smilie: I would say that is actual a "plus" for Miquon -- that if an adult who was taught in public school with traditional methods can just dive in and "get" and enjoy Miquon -- and really have some "big picture light bulbs" go on and math and its fluidity and its connections -- without really using the TM, then it is effective as a discovery approach program! However, it's not for everyone. Here is another past thread with more people's experiences and opinions, in case it is of help: Honest opinions about Miquon please http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25825&highlight=miquon BEST of luck, whatever you go with! Warmest regards, Lori D. MIQUON DESCRIPTION - discovery based - can be used as either spiral or mastery approach - covers most grade 1-3 math topics - manipulative based (cusinaire rods) PROs - can be used as spine or supplement - can do the workbooks in order, or follow one topic through all the workbooks, then go back to an early workbook and follow a different topic - rods are very hands-on and visual manipulative - lnexpensive - comes from a very different viewpoint - very flexible -- as a supplement, some of the topics in the later workbooks will take you into 4th, maybe even 5th grade - free online yahoo Miquon support group = http://groups.yahoo.com/group/miquon-key/ CONs: - will not "connect" for all parents and/or students (no math program will) - does not contain math fact drills, time telling, or money concepts Quote

birchbark Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 I've had experiences where ds would have a mental block on a math page, I'd begin to pull out the rods and he would shout "STOP, I KNOW IT" We've had this happen time and time again. :D Quote

Ali in OR Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 This is where I'm scratching my head. First, building different ways to make a value (as stacked "trains") is exactly the same concept as "number bonds" in Singapore. Just in "concrete" terms. And children do this over in over in Miquon. So I can't for the life of me imagine a better precursor to "number bonds" and the Singapore method. To me it was one of Miquon's greatest strengths. And we used this same concept with rods to reconstruct values around "10". That's how we arrived at the sum. Just like Singapore. Only with rods. I appreciate that not every child is going to necessarily respond the same way to a given approach, but I'm perplexed that you found a "weakness" where i found one of the greatest strengths. Bill We also use the rods to demonstrate math concepts. I'm getting ready to start number bonds with my youngest soon and we will pull out our rods and rod track. It is a great precursor to Singapore 1A. But after a few days with the rods, I prefer to move on to Singapore's more explicit explanations then Miquon's worksheets. And it may very well be a learning styles issue as I think about it more. Singapore uses words and language to specifically demonstrate concepts. Miquon does not put those words out there. So maybe it is an auditory learning thing. I don't remember anything in Miquon describing the importance of making a ten even with the rods. I don't remember any strategies given for how to add larger numbers. That was my frustration with it--it throws problems out there when your only strategy is the rods. Singapore builds the "make a 10" strategy beautifully and uses words to do it for us auditory learners. The strategy goes far beyond adding 8+6 as the same method is used to add 78+6 or even 78+16 later. Maybe it's just that I'm not as visual, but for me the rods don't apply so well there unless you have lots of rods and like very long trains! And have lots of time. Singapore's strategy extends to more difficult problems more easily. So we always start with physical models like the rods, but after that I appreciate explicit language on how to think about the problems or how to perform the algorithm. I did not find this in Miquon but do in Singapore. Miquon may be great for some learning styles, but it's not going to fit everyone. It didn't fit us. Quote

Spy Car Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 We also use the rods to demonstrate math concepts. I'm getting ready to start number bonds with my youngest soon and we will pull out our rods and rod track. It is a great precursor to Singapore 1A. But after a few days with the rods, I prefer to move on to Singapore's more explicit explanations then Miquon's worksheets. We started Singapore 1A a couple months back, and I too (in the main) am now using the more explicit (if that's the right word) Singapore approach with number bonds. But on occasion we still break out the rods is need be. (or more often for reinforcement). But my son "gets" number bonds, and knows a great many of the combos from having gently done this sort of thing for a year "playing" with the rods. He's also young. In a couple weeks he turns 5. The Miquon introduction started when he was a late 3. So the rods were something he could grasp and solve "equations" with before he could write. Even now "writing" is a developing skill. A year ago it would have been impossible for him to do Singapore in a written fashion, but the same type "problems" he could do with manipulatives. And I think that time using developmentally appropriate tools helped build a "mathematical" mind. And it may very well be a learning styles issue as I think about it more. Singapore uses words and language to specifically demonstrate concepts. Miquon does not put those words out there. It's true that Miquon is less "explicit". But the "model" is almost exactly the same as Singapore. I read the news Singapore Model Book a couple weeks mack and I was constantly reminded that all the models we things we'd already visited via "directed discovery" in Miquon. Did you read the First Grade Diary? I don't remember anything in Miquon describing the importance of making a ten even with the rods. I don't remember any strategies given for how to add larger numbers. That was my frustration with it--it throws problems out there when your only strategy is the rods. Singapore builds the "make a 10" strategy beautifully and uses words to do it for us auditory learners. The strategy goes far beyond adding 8+6 as the same method is used to add 78+6 or even 78+16 later. Maybe it's just that I'm not as visual, but for me the rods don't apply so well there unless you have lots of rods and like very long trains! And have lots of time. Singapore's strategy extends to more difficult problems more easily. So we always start with physical models like the rods, but after that I appreciate explicit language on how to think about the problems or how to perform the algorithm. I did not find this in Miquon but do in Singapore. I'll fully admit I extrapolated a great deal when using Miquon. I felt "freed" to improvise and extend in great measure to reading the First Grade Diary, but I will freely admit there are quite a number of areas where I found that I liked the way other math programs taught a concept better than differently enough from Miquon that I absorbed the idea into our math-lab. I said it before, I don't think Miquon is a "perfect" math program. I haven't met one that is. So I too like using several. But I've encountered nothing else that would have worked as brilliantly for us at a pre-K level. And now we do more MEP and Singapore than Miquon. But I know very well my son would in no way have been ready for these programs had he not played with Miquon first. Maybe a year from now he'd be ready. So part of it is an age/developmental thing Bill Quote

Spy Car Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 :iagree: I know different maths will suit different kids. My ds6 is a very spatial thinker. Those C.rods just make the concepts "click" for him. It's not going to work for every kid, but I think it will benefit most kids to some degree, *given* that the child has enough free play with the rods to "befriend" them. If you want to try Miquon, commit to free play with rods (no mommy input allowed for a month) and understanding the heart behind the method (First Grade Diary;)). It isn't at all *leaving* a kid to discover for themselves, every.single.concept. (I think that is another misconception....) It's *leading* them to discover these things. Big difference imho. This ability to "direct discovery" and then step back and let the child do the thinking was a supreme joy of Miquon to me. I didn't want to be doing a lot of explaining. But when necessary I would model the concepts. I found it a wonderful way to teach and learn. The one way we had slightly different experiences is we didn't take that much time to "free-play" with the rods, and you are probably closer to the Miquon ideal than I. We still kept things playful, but my son just "got" the values shocking fast. So building stacks of blocks of the same overall value (the rough equivalent of number bonds) started almost straight away. I'm not saying a month of free-play isn't a good idea, it just didn't happen that way here. I'm not even sure that having a boy-boy that degree of un-direction would have been a positive. He was better with a "task". Kids are different. Bill Quote

Zoo Keeper Posted July 1, 2009 Posted July 1, 2009 I'll give another vote for the Miquon/Singapore combo. One of my sons is very intuitive with math concepts, and the other one has to have it all laid out, step by step, over and over. Combining the two programs works for both of them. Mr. Math loves to play around with the rods for hours, making number families, number wars, other sagas involving how the numbers do (or don't) work together. He bounces around in the Miquon workbooks, sometimes exploring a topic on different "levels". He also does Singapore three times a week, more as reinforcement to what he has been doing with the Miquon. Mr. not-so-math plugs away steady through the Singapore books all week, and he uses the Miquon worksheets to work through things when he hits a wall and to help him step out of his little comfort zone in math. Quote

helena Posted July 1, 2009 Author Posted July 1, 2009 Ok somehow I've wound up asking the same question on 2 threads at the same time, sorry about that. Miquon sounds perfect for my daughter, but maybe not for me. I am amazingly bad at math. People talk math and I start thinking about the color yellow if you know what I mean. It doesn't stick. If I do all of the supplemental reading etc, is there hope for me to teach this effectively? Quote

Spy Car Posted July 2, 2009 Posted July 2, 2009 Ok somehow I've wound up asking the same question on 2 threads at the same time, sorry about that.Miquon sounds perfect for my daughter, but maybe not for me. I am amazingly bad at math. People talk math and I start thinking about the color yellow if you know what I mean. It doesn't stick. If I do all of the supplemental reading etc, is there hope for me to teach this effectively? If it helps, math was probably my worst subject in school. I'd sneak novels inside my math text and pretend to be paying attention. I'd have loved the Miquon approach. Then Singapore/and or MEP (we using both) because these are interesting ways to teach and learn "math". And I had some anxiety about teaching math, made worse in some ways reading Liping Ma's book and realizing the way I'd been taught was all wrong. But how to do better? The First Grade Diary got me thinking in new ways. Then I became a bit of a math-hound. And realizing I had a brain in my head, and that I could make explanations of concepts simple. Some were lifted from Miquon, many not, and many of my own mind. But still (for me) I credit Miquon for getting me to think like a math teacher and building my own skills there. And not being afraid of teaching the same basic concept in a myriad of ways. I can't guarantee others will have the same experience I have, but I do know there a quite a number of us who've had similar experiences. BTW, under ordinary circumstances Yellow = 5 (which you will learn all about if you decide to do Miquon. I rank using Miquon on a very short-list of the best decisions I've ever made in my life, that's how much I loved this start. Bill Quote

FO4UR Posted July 2, 2009 Posted July 2, 2009 If I do all of the supplemental reading etc, is there hope for me to teach this effectively? Yes!:iagree: Quote

K&Rs Mom Posted July 2, 2009 Posted July 2, 2009 CONs:- will not "connect" for all parents and/or students (no math program will) - does not contain math fact drills, time telling, or money concepts You're right about money, but it does include time (part of fractions at the end of book 1, and I think it comes up again later). I love the way they teach time with fractions, because kids learn to tell time with or without the numerals visible on the clock. For us, the lack of drill is a pro, not a con, but definitely one reason Miquon isn't for everybody. If that's the only problem, though, it's easy to print free drill sheets from many internet sources. My 4yo's recent observation on book 1 was, "I think the people who make little kid math books put lots of stuff in to make them fun." :D My older wasn't (still isn't) quite so impressed, but her skills are way ahead of what I'd expected at this age, so I still call it a win. Quote

Colleen in SEVA Posted July 2, 2009 Posted July 2, 2009 I think Miquon is a great fit for some kids, and not so much for others. It is a fun book to try out (and cheap), so it's at least worth giving a shot. It was not for me -- it did not align with how I think about math AT ALL (must be all those years of textbook math I had :D ). I had Blue do parts of the books as a fun supplement to Singapore K/1, and the Singapore was a better fit for him (and me :D ) so we dropped the Miquon. Green does not think like Blue and me. Honestly, I think Green would do best with Right Start, but there was too large of a learning curve for me to teach it well (it sat on my shelf for months) so I had him try Singapore. He didn't love it the way Blue did. I pulled out Miquon and he loved it, so he's doing that now (it is important to me for my kids to love math). So... I think Miquon is a great program, but only for the right kid, and you won't know until you try! Side note -- one quick, cute story that I can't share often because only Cuisinnaire lovers would see the cuteness in this! Green was in a co-op class when he turned 4, and they played with rods every week. After learning to make 11 with the rods, Green started writing the number 11 as a tiny line above a much longer line, rather than two 1s the same size next to each other. :D:D Quote

Colleen in SEVA Posted July 2, 2009 Posted July 2, 2009 And if I may add on a question... for those who used Miquon as your main program and not a supplement, what did you do after? Quote

Lori D. Posted July 2, 2009 Posted July 2, 2009 (edited) Here's what we did (and potentially will) use after Miquon, and how it's worked for our two very different learners. BEST of luck in finding what works for your students! Warmest regards, Lori D. Older DS: (math whiz) 2nd = Miquon -- GREAT! 3rd-6th = Singapore 3A/B, 4A/B, 5A/B, 6A/B -- GREAT! (supplement: Saxon 54, 65, 76 -- okay) 7th = NEM1 (half) -- tough (for mom!) / Saxon Algebra 1/2 (a skim review of parts) -- okay 8th = Jacobs Algebra 1 -- GREAT! 9th = Jacobs Geometry -- GREAT! 10th = Abeka Consumer Math -- GREAT! 11th = Foerster Algebra 2 -- will use it this year 12th =possibly Pre-Calc?? -- TBD* Younger DS: (math struggler) 2nd = Miquon 3rd = Singapore 2A/B-- ROUGH 4th = Saxon 3 -- ROUGH (supplement: various manipulatives & booklets -- GREAT!) 5th = Math-U-See Old Intermediate -- GREAT! 6th = MUS Delta and Epsilon (supplement: Singapore 4A/B) -- both GREAT! 7th = MUS Zeta (supplement: Singapore 5A/B) -- both GREAT! 8th = MUS Pre-Algebra (supplement: Singapore 6A/B; Keys to Decimals & Percents) -- both GREAT! 9th = started with MUS Algebra; switched to Jacobs Algebra 1 -- both ROUGH 10th = Geometry: MUS or Jacobs -- TBD for this year 11th = Abeka Consumer Math -- TBD* 12th = Algebra 2 -- TBD* TBD=to be decided Edited July 2, 2009 by Lori D. fixed typo Quote

Spy Car Posted July 2, 2009 Posted July 2, 2009 And if I may add on a question... for those who used Miquon as your main program and not a supplement, what did you do after? I can't speak to using Miquon only, but we are finding Singapore and MEP are very nice compliments to Miquon and build on the critical thinking and concepts introduced in math-lab. Bill Quote

buddhabelly Posted July 2, 2009 Posted July 2, 2009 And we used this same concept with rods to reconstruct values around "10". That's how we arrived at the sum. Just like Singapore. Only with rods. Bill I just wanted to add that this is the way Right Start teaches math too. My son never did memorize the addition/subtraction facts. He just does stuff like this in his head. Well, he sees the abacus --- for 8 +5, he would see 8 combined with 2 of the 5 to make 10 (all the same color on the abacus), plus three leftover on the top. Don't know if this makes any sense, but it doesn't matter because I just wanted to make the point that it is pretty much the same philosophy. I was impressed recently because my son used the Right Start method of really figuring stuff out, really understanding it, to multiply fractions. I was tempted to teach him the algorithm, but he can do it without it. Dr. Cotter would have been very irked if I had taught him the algorithm without really understanding it. Julie Quote

K&Rs Mom Posted July 2, 2009 Posted July 2, 2009 And if I may add on a question... for those who used Miquon as your main program and not a supplement, what did you do after? We're not quite there yet, but I'm leaning toward Life of Fred because K is very much a story person. I like the unconventional approaches of both and from what I've seen she'll be pretty well prepared even though younger than the "target age" for LoF. Quote

Spy Car Posted July 2, 2009 Posted July 2, 2009 I just wanted to add that this is the way Right Start teaches math too. My son never did memorize the addition/subtraction facts. He just does stuff like this in his head. Well, he sees the abacus --- for 8 +5, he would see 8 combined with 2 of the 5 to make 10 (all the same color on the abacus), plus three leftover on the top. Don't know if this makes any sense, but it doesn't matter because I just wanted to make the point that it is pretty much the same philosophy. I was impressed recently because my son used the Right Start method of really figuring stuff out, really understanding it, to multiply fractions. I was tempted to teach him the algorithm, but he can do it without it. Dr. Cotter would have been very irked if I had taught him the algorithm without really understanding it. Julie I'm really impressed by Dr Cotter. I've read everything I can get my hands on that she's written. And have an AL Abacus, the abacus books, the RS Games, and additional place value and base-10 cards. Many times I find the RS materials are the clearest and most orderly ways of teaching concepts. I do part ways from her on the value of C Rods. And the abacus, while used, has not caught on with my son the way the rods have. Part of that, I think, is age, development and temperament. The rods appealed this boy-boy temperament, but I'm hoping as he matures the abacus comes more and more into play. Tonight I think I'll break out the abacus. It will be good timing to model some of the concepts we've been working on lately using the RS way. The RS games have been a hit. The only slight-draw back (which you will understand) is I don't want him memorizing "math fact" without really understanding the process, so I'm diligent to make sure any "rote-memory" is able to be explained. I look forward to learning the RS way of multiplying fractions. This intrigues me, and I'll make sure not to miss it. Thanks for the heads-up. Bill Quote

heart'sjoy Posted July 3, 2009 Posted July 3, 2009 quote from Helena: is there hope for me to teach this effectively? Math was not easy for me either. I still remember the panic when I would miss a step in a long series a teacher was explaining (7th grade). I could not think outside of a step by step formula. I looked at Miquon samples when we were starting preK and wanted to run away:auto:. Then I realized I could learn with my kids to think math i.e., understand what a number is and all the amazing things you can do with it. I wanted them to have more than one way to attack the harder math on down the road. It's working. For me personally, I can now work solutions in Singapore challenging word problems without the algebra formulas. Unmathy dd has completed all of miquon and is finishing Singapore 4a. My goal was that she would have more than one way to solve/ think about problems. It's happening. I notice it most in long division and longer multiplication. She uses a method taught in Miquon most often. She doesn't give up if the first try doesn't succeed. Mathy DS hasn't needed me. I thought we would really slow down with place values and subtraction with carrying. Once he modeled with the rods, he was off and running. We are using singpore u.s version and miquon. Quote

leaird Posted July 3, 2009 Posted July 3, 2009 I used Miquon with my oldest way back when and neither one of us enjoyed it. It just didn't make much sense to me at the time. Since then, we have use Math U See which also uses blocks. Math U See made much more sense to me than Miquon ever did. Quote

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