not meaning to beat a dead horse here, but Standardized Testing . . .

[CalicoKat]

should I do this or am I opening myself up to unwanted criticism & scrutiny.

 

Our homeschool is making progress but I have this one student who views tests of all kinds as a sort of game. She's kind of like the student from Venus that's visiting another family today :) She'll answer things backwards, incorrectly, upside down, etc. just for the heck of it because she can and because thinking out of the box is her way of arguing with the world. KWIM?

 

And yet it would be nice to know where we might need to refocus some of our academic attentions.

 

We have the opportunity to do this at a local private school.

 

Torn about this issue.

[Mrs Mungo]

Who is going to see the results aside from you?

 

When we were in NC we were required to test each year. My middle daughter is like your one student. There is just no way she's going to test well until she's a little more mature. I knew it, I accepted it, I had her tested, got the scores and ignored them.

 

eta: If I hadn't been *required* to test her I wouldn't have done so. It's just not worth it, it's meaningless.

[CalicoKat]

Who is going to see the results aside from you?

 

When we were in NC we were required to test each year. My middle daughter is like your one student. There is just no way she's going to test well until she's a little more mature. I knew it, I accepted it, I had her tested, got the scores and ignored them.

 

eta: If I hadn't been *required* to test her I wouldn't have done so. It's just not worth it, it's meaningless.

 

We aren't required to do it. I'm concerned that dh who is very pro-homeschooling might just cringe and take things literally if she gets poor results, i.e., our homeschool isn't doing a good job. She's our oldest.

 

So I guess it's about my job security.

[Harriet Vane]

The test itself only tells you where your children are in relation to other children. I have chosen to test because it satisfies my need to know if we are at least keeping up with traditionally schooled children. The test does NOT tell you which specific skill/content areas are lacking. For example, a child may score poorly in math computation, but you will not know if they struggled with multiplication or division or fractions, etc.

 

If you want to know what specific areas need more instruction, you might find it more effective to have your dc use a test prep booklet AS IF it were really a test. That way when you grade it yourself you know exactly what kinds of questions/problems they struggled with.

 

Just a thought.

[Ria]

I think it's a valuable test. If your child is years behind the average at that particular grade level, it would give you a great indication that your child is struggling with certain things.

 

Ria

[Mrs Mungo]

I think it's a valuable test. If your child is years behind the average at that particular grade level, it would give you a great indication that your child is struggling with certain things.

 

Ria

 

*In general* I agree with you. However, for kids who aren't *really* going to try and score well on the test, who are just going to mark it randomly, or not attempt any of the answers (my daughter I mentioned above didn't even *attempt* whole sections of math) then it's not going to tell you any of those things. For my eldest daughter testing was a great tool. For my middle child it was worthless.

[Ria]

*In general* I agree with you. However, for kids who aren't *really* going to try and score well on the test, who are just going to mark it randomly, or not attempt any of the answers (my daughter I mentioned above didn't even *attempt* whole sections of math) then it's not going to tell you any of those things. For my eldest daughter testing was a great tool. For my middle child it was worthless.

 

I simply cannot fathom a child doing that...or it being allowed. It's just beyond my comprehension.

 

Ria

[Mrs Mungo]

I simply cannot fathom a child doing that...or it being allowed. It's just beyond my comprehension.

 

Ria

 

My children took the test in a group setting. I don't think the test proctor had any experience with children who are ADHD.

[Ria]

That would certainly affect the situation! I have no experience in that arena, but I see your point, and it is well taken. Thank you!!

 

Ria

[CalicoKat]

I simply cannot fathom a child doing that...or it being allowed. It's just beyond my comprehension.

 

Ria

 

And it's not tolerated, however it did take me a while to realize that it wasn't because she was dumb. :) I figure she started doing it because she realized that it meant she'd be advanced to harder/more work. Smart really.

 

But then it's times like being at the opthamologist and hearing her answer all the questions opposite that you realize it truly is also a game to her.

 

And then there are those times, like mentioned in the thread earlier today, that it may truly be her thinking out of the box and my mind isn't following. Like answering all the questions as if she lives on Venus.

[AuntieM]

he will be completing 8th grade. In my mind, this is sort of a benchmark year, prior to "officially" beginning high school studies, and I want to see where he is. He usually tests well, doesn't get anxious about it. The scores can be easy documentation for his admittance to the local chapter of the home school national honor society. We are not required to test and have not done so since 4th grade. This is what really surprised me...

 

I ordered a Spectrum test prep book. It's filled with so much sociological gibberish, it amazed me! I guess in some wicked combination of higher grade level and changing test standards, there's a whole lot more than your traditional old 3 R's on the newer tests! We have been laughing about it and I've just given my son some extra reading to cover these areas.

 

Anyone else notice this trend? Is it actually a trend, or is the difference in material strictly related to the gap in our testing grade level experience?

[abbeyej]

The thing that concerns me is your fears about how your dh might react to poor scores. *Generally*, I agree with Ria -- that testing can be useful to parents, and the practice of taking a test (especially *before* kids are of an age where there is actual pressure to perform well -- when it can just be fun and different and novel) is worthwhile as well.

 

*But* if you don't think this particular child has the maturity to take the test seriously and do her best *and* that your dh might be disconcerted by poor scores (that don't necessarily reflect either her ability or her knowledge), then it may not be a good idea.

 

It sounds to me like the "games" you describe are not ones that could be easily caught out and corrected during the testing time. Those proctoring the test can simply make sure that she's looking at the right pages and marking the correct section on her answer sheet -- if they realize later that she was making pretty patterns on the bubbles, etc, there's nothing that can be done. (And if it's just a matter of reversing all of her answers, well, it would be almost impossible to catch on.)

 

I think I would work with her on the character issue of knowing when it's totally okay and wonderful and good to be creative and quirky and outside-the-box -- and when it's important to follow the rules and focus. (And if ADD is a concern, it'll take more work than for most kids, and a test that's administered in hours-long blocks may not reflect her skills and achievement very well anyway.)

 

And put testing off... At least until either 1) she'll do her best to follow the intent of the rules so you get a fairly accurate result, or 2) your husband is willing to acknowledge that the scores will not be accurate for her and the test itself is just an exercise.

 

All that said, would she be less likely to goof off in a group setting? Some of the home schooled kiddos I know who are generally extremely bright, active, high energy, quirky, etc, respond really well to the temporary peer pressure to sit and focus on the test. Others don't. And if these are quiet little games she's playing in her own head (as opposed to standing on her head next to her chair, which is a little more easily dealt with), it may not matter...

[Laura Corin]

I am testing this year (it's about every three or four years in the British system). I am finding it useful. The boys are coming out with good scores in general (even without following the English National Curriculum) but I have spotted some issues: Calvin is slow at mental maths, for example.

 

If you can use the tests for your own benefit, then I think they can be worth doing. If the student is not going to actually do the test properly, however, then you might want to wait until she is more able to concentrate on it.

 

Laura

[Momof2kids]

We're in a state where we don't have to but I did for my daughter a couple years ago after she completed 3rd grade.

 

The test did not tell me anything I didn't already know. Poor speller. Poor with punctuation. Exceptional in vocabulary. Very well in social studies, science and math.

 

I already knew all of this since I work with her everyday. But now it was just confirmed.

 

It's kind of silly, but it did ease my mind about where she was overall in relation to other kids her age. So it was worth it to me. We'll do it again soon. Just not sure when.

[Kelli in TN]

When my son was in 3rd grade he took an achievement test. He completely failed the entire math section.

 

I was shocked, he is fine with math.

 

When I gently questioned him about the math section he admitted to me that he had randomly marked answers without reading them.

 

His reason?

 

"Mom, I really had to pee."

 

:rolleyes:

 

I used to be a test site adminstrator and I used to tell the parents every year, don't read too much into it. Maybe there was a distraction, maybe the child was physically uncomfortable, maybe the proctor is new and does not set things up properly.

 

If you know she is too immature for this process I would skip it. I would find some other way to "test" her, perhaps even using test prep materials at home would give you some feedback.

[Tammyla]

should I do this or am I opening myself up to unwanted criticism & scrutiny.

 

Our homeschool is making progress but I have this one student who views tests of all kinds as a sort of game. She's kind of like the student from Venus that's visiting another family today :) She'll answer things backwards, incorrectly, upside down, etc. just for the heck of it because she can and because thinking out of the box is her way of arguing with the world. KWIM?

 

And yet it would be nice to know where we might need to refocus some of our academic attentions.

 

We have the opportunity to do this at a local private school.

 

Torn about this issue.

 

I test and use the results for what they are. You might want to consider testing at the private school after discussing what is expected of her before hand. Then she might surprise you and actually try to do a good job.

 

That said, (barring any Ld's) I'd work very hard on her work ethic, character what ever you call it. There is a place and a time for silliness, but lessons are not it. That kind of (repeated) work would have consequences. You being the parent would know best, but some options are. 1. Do it over. 2. Do more lesson or test work. 3. Chores. 4. Loss of privileges. 5. Talk with Dad the principle. etc.

 

I have my own creative sole here, but he knows his lessons are his work. How do you react to her papers when she turns her Venus work? Charlotte Mason wrote a lot on the development of character & habits. You might enjoy one of her books or those written about the CM method. :)

[Cindy in FL.]

I've wondered about this as well. Recently I had my children do some past tests from Texas that had been posted on the internet. It was a nice way to get an idea of how they were doing without getting anyone else involved.

 

Here's the link if you want to check it out.

 

http://www.tea.state.tx.us/student.assessment/resources/release/

 

Cindy

[CalicoKat]

The thing that concerns me is your fears about how your dh might react to poor scores. *Generally*, I agree with Ria -- that testing can be useful to parents, and the practice of taking a test (especially *before* kids are of an age where there is actual pressure to perform well -- when it can just be fun and different and novel) is worthwhile as well.

 

*But* if you don't think this particular child has the maturity to take the test seriously and do her best *and* that your dh might be disconcerted by poor scores (that don't necessarily reflect either her ability or her knowledge), then it may not be a good idea.

 

It sounds to me like the "games" you describe are not ones that could be easily caught out and corrected during the testing time. Those proctoring the test can simply make sure that she's looking at the right pages and marking the correct section on her answer sheet -- if they realize later that she was making pretty patterns on the bubbles, etc, there's nothing that can be done. (And if it's just a matter of reversing all of her answers, well, it would be almost impossible to catch on.)

 

I think I would work with her on the character issue of knowing when it's totally okay and wonderful and good to be creative and quirky and outside-the-box -- and when it's important to follow the rules and focus. (And if ADD is a concern, it'll take more work than for most kids, and a test that's administered in hours-long blocks may not reflect her skills and achievement very well anyway.)

 

And put testing off... At least until either 1) she'll do her best to follow the intent of the rules so you get a fairly accurate result, or 2) your husband is willing to acknowledge that the scores will not be accurate for her and the test itself is just an exercise.

 

All that said, would she be less likely to goof off in a group setting? Some of the home schooled kiddos I know who are generally extremely bright, active, high energy, quirky, etc, respond really well to the temporary peer pressure to sit and focus on the test. Others don't. And if these are quiet little games she's playing in her own head (as opposed to standing on her head next to her chair, which is a little more easily dealt with), it may not matter...

 

 

Ah ADD . . . yes it is one of my concerns with her. I'm not willing to medicate her just yet because she is doing at-grade-level work and she can concentrate--when she applies herself. I do have one ADHDer who can't do these and the differences between the two are huge in their academics.

 

Goofing off in a group setting. . . I can't figure out why she does or doesn't sometimes. I can't see a pattern, yet.

 

Dh . . . he has heard my concerns. He doesn't disagree that that is a reality that might affect her scores. He is committed to homeschooling. But he is a former grade school teacher. So I guess I'm concerned that when the grades actually get her, if they're bad, that we'll have some problems with interpreting the results. :) My fears.

 

We're going to go ahead with the testing. I think it would be a good experience for all of us. We'll approach it casually. And take the results lightly--unless they're great!