What subjects do you wish you had not wasted time on when kids were little?

[Pamela H in Texas]

Where I think they could go wrong is to believe they have to choose between two flawed approaches. And that only two choices exist. Push, or wait. When there really is a third way.

 

I have seen that on this board also. I always have trouble explaining how we did things and what it looked like. It's just really hard to explain when people tend to see push or delay as a linear spectrum. Young children are capable of soooooooooo much. I think it's crazy to discount that or not use it to the child's advantage. And it's just as crazy to push in ways that make education drudgery kids want to avoid or something from which they burn out early. And this doesn't change just because the kid turns 7 or 8 or 10. I like to think that the style spectrum is also circular which explained how unschooling and classical education were so incredibly close to one another in our experience.

 

But everything DOES seem to be an either/or thing. I'm reading What Happened to Recess and Why Are Our Children Struggling in Kindergarten. I am really enjoying it for the most part, but I see the same either/or mentality in other ways. The author is SO right on regarding pushing kids, testing them to death, etc. I have highlighted a lot of neat phrases, concepts, etc. But she takes it to an extreme suggesting that a kindergartener or first grader just SHOULDN"T be studying the ancients for example. She lumps that in with pushing (for not only the K and 1st grader, but also the 4th grader!). And yet I remember how much my kids thoroughly enjoyed Story of the World and wishing we had had it when they were really little. Of course, part of the concern she had was with EVALUATING the learning. She uses k12's Kindergarten History as her example and k12 is a bit assessment happy. But we don't have to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

 

A recent thread on here had the same either/or thing going on. A few people did try to answer it, but it fell flat, I think.

 

Anyway, all this to say I COMPLETELY agree will Bill.

 

If black is pushing and white is delaying...somewhere in the middle of the spectrum, if you look to the right or left just a little, you'll see a sunny patch of green. It's a wonderful place where kids can be kids and yet have some awesome learning opportunities :)

Edited June 18, 2009 by 2J5M9K

[Julie in MN]

Where I think they could go wrong is to believe they have to choose between two flawed approaches. And that only two choices exist. Push, or wait. When there really is a third way.

 

Bill

 

Okay, then, we have three models! And lots of caring parents.

[titianmom]

I'm pretty glad overall with what I've done. I didn't buy anything, really, until mine was in the 3rd grade. We focused then, and still focus on the big 3: Reading, Writing and Arithematic. In the beginning we used the library extensively and the first priority was learning to read. Then math concepts and handwriting.

 

I've hodge-podged and built my own curriculum over most of the years of homeschooling except for some rare periods when I thought someone else could do better. I did a stint in K12, and a brief excursion with Sonlight. K12 was getting so ridiculously expensive I dropped it. And the child didn't get more education by using it, either. Sonlight? I was hoarse and the child did little to nothing for herself. Not my kind of curriculum.

 

What I learned: High price tags don't equate to better quality, usually.

Secondly, the child needs to learn how to study and work independently, eventually. And work, did I mention that? They need to learn how to work toward their ed. You're not in school, they are. :)

 

Take care,

Kim

[elizabeth rose]

Are you saying that spelling before 3rd is a waste of time? If so, could you give your experience? Thanks

 

Yes, I feel that so much spelling is picked up through reading, which Is my main goal, to have them read fluently by 3rd grade. I think spelling ability, at least for my oldest is due to the fact that she is an avid reader, and therefore "recognizes" when a word does not look right to her. I don't think seeing a word on a list for a 6 or 7 year old is going to create retention of the proper spelling. I think its more meaningful when they see them in their reading repeatedly. Now at 3rd gr, I like to start Spelling Power. I think then, its a refining of spelling skills of sorts.

 

Before 3rd grade, i do use PP, which does have spelling rules in it to a point, but I do not use a formal spelling curriculum until 3rd.

[TravelingChris]

Nicole M said "This is why programs like Head Start work. They give children exposure to language that they do not get at home."

 

Actually Head Start Programs have not been shown to be long term educationally stimulating. The advanced progress disappears after 3rd grade, I seem to remember. That isn't to say that there are other objectives, intended or not, that happen. For example, I believe that Head Start children get better health care and probably have less chance of neglect. However, it doesn't help with future crime statistics nor with academic success after third grade. That is probably because the schools these children go to are generally the worse schools around and not much learning is happening.

[sagira]

I'm pretty glad overall with what I've done. I didn't buy anything, really, until mine was in the 3rd grade. We focused then, and still focus on the big 3: Reading, Writing and Arithematic. In the beginning we used the library extensively and the first priority was learning to read. Then math concepts and handwriting.

 

I've hodge-podged and built my own curriculum over most of the years of homeschooling except for some rare periods when I thought someone else could do better. I did a stint in K12, and a brief excursion with Sonlight. K12 was getting so ridiculously expensive I dropped it. And the child didn't get more education by using it, either. Sonlight? I was hoarse and the child did little to nothing for herself. Not my kind of curriculum.

 

What I learned: High price tags don't equate to better quality, usually.

Secondly, the child needs to learn how to study and work independently, eventually. And work, did I mention that? They need to learn how to work toward their ed. You're not in school, they are. :)

 

Take care,

Kim

 

Interesting discussion and some hard-earned wisdom shared with us newbies, thanks :) As in regards to the post above, this is why I was apprehensive about getting Sonlight. I never did in the end, but it was the thing that kept stopping me. I do want my children to learn independently too, to grasp, to educate themselves. One beautiful way of accomplishing that is through Charlotte Mason's methods. I believe it's a good blend between presenting lessons and having the child discover.

 

I agree with Bill. There is a third way (just like in the phonics-sight words debate).

[Nicole M]

Nicole M said "This is why programs like Head Start work. They give children exposure to language that they do not get at home."

 

Actually Head Start Programs have not been shown to be long term educationally stimulating. The advanced progress disappears after 3rd grade, I seem to remember. That isn't to say that there are other objectives, intended or not, that happen. For example, I believe that Head Start children get better health care and probably have less chance of neglect. However, it doesn't help with future crime statistics nor with academic success after third grade. That is probably because the schools these children go to are generally the worse schools around and not much learning is happening.

 

There are probably a myriad of reasons why there is a drop off after 3rd grade. I'm thinking of an article I read in the Economist this week, about education in the US, and this idea of summer (forget the term) regression (?) profoundly effects children from poorer families when children from wealthier families tend to improve their academic skills over the summer.

 

Here is the article from The Economist (I hope the link works):

 

http://www.economist.com/world/unitedstates/displaystory.cfm?story_id=13825184

 

But this is straying from the original question. I am simply not convinced that teaching reading very early is critical to ongoing academic success. Both my children were "late" readers. My oldest was a "late" reader, according to the public school where he was a student, and the whole business was a mess. It was a crisis, and made him stress out. (With my youngest, who never went to school, I waited for signs that he was ready, and in the meantime read to him constantly.) My oldest recovered, but what a lot of unnecessary drama and pain. And I think that is what the OP is asking, really, what isn't actually necessary in the early years.

[Jayne J]

Yes, I think some folks are misinterpreting the "better late than early" thing.

 

Even the Bluedorns don't say that you should just let the kids watch cartoons until they are 10. They don't say that kids can't "learn" until they are 10. Kids are "learning machines." It's just abstract symbols that can wait until 10, and they will speedily be absorbed by a child who has actually "experienced" math up until that point.

 

 

Hello, it's me, from page 1, the gal who mentioned the Bluedorns.:D I just popped back into to say that I completely agree with this, and did not intend to misrepresent the Bluedorn's ideas about mathematics. The last paragraph of my post does say that all the folks I mentioned (Bluedorns, Charlotte Mason and Moores) absolutely do not say not to teach at all, only to avoid workbook/seatwork styles of teaching(which generally use abstract symbols) until the child is older.

[Lady Q]

 

I also wish I had skipped Critical Thinking Company books when he was in Pre-K/K. Lisa

Lisa, I've been avidly looking over the Critical Thinking Co. catalog for stuff for my 4 yo. Can you explain more why those books didn't work for your prek/k son? (In other words, help me save my money! :D).

[Lovedtodeath]

Yes, I feel that so much spelling is picked up through reading, which Is my main goal, to have them read fluently by 3rd grade. I think spelling ability, at least for my oldest is due to the fact that she is an avid reader, and therefore "recognizes" when a word does not look right to her. I don't think seeing a word on a list for a 6 or 7 year old is going to create retention of the proper spelling. I think its more meaningful when they see them in their reading repeatedly. Now at 3rd gr, I like to start Spelling Power. I think then, its a refining of spelling skills of sorts.

 

Before 3rd grade, i do use PP, which does have spelling rules in it to a point, but I do not use a formal spelling curriculum until 3rd.

Thank you. DD has been reading for a long time and never finished out phonics, so that was my reasoning for starting spelling with her. She also writes all the time and asks us to spell every word. I will be careful to emphasize her reading more.

[Julie in MN]

Hello, it's me, from page 1, the gal who mentioned the Bluedorns.:D I just popped back into to say that I completely agree with this, and did not intend to misrepresent the Bluedorn's ideas about mathematics. The last paragraph of my post does say that all the folks I mentioned (Bluedorns, Charlotte Mason and Moores) absolutely do not say not to teach at all, only to avoid workbook/seatwork styles of teaching(which generally use abstract symbols) until the child is older.

 

:iagree:

I don't think you mis-represented it, but it's a busy thread & I'm glad you re-stated it :D (say, why is this guy green ?? !! )

[emeraldjoy]

Reading and writing could have waited for us.

 

Oldest is 10 and she was a "late" writer comparativley. I freaked and harassed her to tears almost daily. Now she writes and writes and writes and writes; recently won a writing contest ($100). Our final solution was to just stop expecting any sort of writing from her AT ALL, until she no longer had anxiety about it. Finally she came around and has excelled. With our second who is now 8 I followed his lead and he is just fine and there were no tears and a loss of confidence.

 

Reading is a similar story; definitely too much pressure for a 4 year old who just needed to play (even though she had the ability to read). Just because they have the ability does not mean it needs to happen so young, unless, of course, there is a huge interest and no anxiety.

 

Personally, I think most, if not all traditional stuff, can wait unti they are 7 or 8. Good books, art supplies, the library, field trips, and the great outdoors do just fine until then.

 

emerald

[Mom-ninja.]

Yes, I feel that so much spelling is picked up through reading, which Is my main goal, to have them read fluently by 3rd grade. I think spelling ability, at least for my oldest is due to the fact that she is an avid reader, and therefore "recognizes" when a word does not look right to her. I don't think seeing a word on a list for a 6 or 7 year old is going to create retention of the proper spelling. I think its more meaningful when they see them in their reading repeatedly. Now at 3rd gr, I like to start Spelling Power. I think then, its a refining of spelling skills of sorts.

 

Before 3rd grade, i do use PP, which does have spelling rules in it to a point, but I do not use a formal spelling curriculum until 3rd.

 

It's backwards for my ds. I've just started a spelling program with ds. He is not a fluent reader. I've found that the spelling lessons are helping him learn to read.