College degrees ... is this typical?

[Luanne]

A friend of mine that I hadn't seen in a while came over today. She received a Master's degree two years ago. She is currently working in a telemarketing job because she can't seem to break into her field of study. Is this typical? Is it just a "Master's degree" thing or is it also typical of other degrees? I was just curious. Is it even worth spending all that money for a higher education now?

[Tap]

Well I would say it varies vastly with what degree she received, and what field she is in. How a person interviews (some of the most brilliant people are very awkward socially), their experience outside of just education, their personal references, how the dress/act/smell (unkempt appearance, even if the clothes are nice) and how the resume is written are all factors that can make a person more or less marketable than someone else.

 

 

A friend of mine tends to get good jobs, but it can take a while. She has relocated several times as her husbands career has required. A few things have been obvious stumbling blocks. She demands a high compensation at hiring, based on skill/experience. She wears clothes that are stylish but not well fitting. She shops in the jr. section at stores like Target, or the clearance section at malls. She really needs to move to a plus size, but she doesn't like the style, so she wears ill fitting clothes instead. She colors her hair, but gets busy and lets it go a few weeks longer than she should. She will paint over a manicure, and the chips will show through. If you just judge her by her looks, you would think she is lazy, but it is just the opposite. She really throws herself into her job, and forgets about the personal details sometimes. It takes a skilled interviewer who can see past that.

 

She is very good at her job, and once she gets a job, she gets moved up quick and gets random raises. She just has to get the job to prove herself.

[KJB]

Oh, I think you need the degree, but that's just one of the first easy to weed out criteria for a new hire.

 

I think in order to break into a competitive field, you need both education and youth to name one other. People like to hire and develop potential. If you've waited to long to finish a degree in a competitive field, you may have missed the boat. IMHO.

 

Older people new to a field often have higher expectations of salary and benefits and more outside commitments to compete with being able to work. Even if they don't act this way, they will be perceived this way.

 

Young, educated, and hungry (as in willing to do a lot for very little) are first served.

[Ravin]

I've got a bachelor's degree, and I'm working an hourly job at Wal-Mart. But that's mostly because I got the job to supplement our income, DD and HS'ing are my primary priorities, not a career. Compliments of the recession it's become our primary income. You can't really work in my degree field (anthropology) without at least a Master's, and more likely a PhD. With the economy going the way it has, and DH's career in the tank the way it is, he's planning on going back to school and getting out of the restaurant industry and into academia, so I'm probably going to be the breadwinner for a while yet.

 

I'm looking at law school.

[creekland]

This economy sure doesn't help, but to some extent it's always been this way. In my opinion, it's extremely important to get a degree in a field where there are lots of job openings. It's simple supply and demand economics. Sure someone can get a degree in Political Science, but realistically, how many jobs are there? Unless one has an "in" or is extremely top of their class, I would think it's difficult to get a job - even moreso with this economy.

 

Hubby's field is Civil Engineering and he has people calling him wanting him to work for them. This has slowed now with this economy, but I'd prefer to take my chances with a degree like this than with many others.

 

My degree is Physics (with a Math minor), and due to homeschooling and being a mom, I've only done substitute teaching (math/science) since we had kids. Even so, I have a standing offer at the school where I work for a full time job should I ever want it. I don't even have a teaching degree yet, but they've showed me more than once how I can get it (Masters) while still working for them...

 

My kids will go to college for 4 years (I enjoyed it and don't want them missing the experience of a 4 year college even if it would be cheaper to test out or do cc first). However, we are looking at less expensive schools that still have their major (not 40 - 50K schools, but 'Best Buy' schools) and we are steering them to degrees that both fit them AND have a good job outlook.

 

If this economy stays, it could indeed be tough, but I'd rather they tough it out with a degree than without.

[HeatherLynn]

I am back in school at 33 and worried about the same thing. However, I plan to get an internship while still in school to build experience and *prove* myself.

[bettyandbob]

I definitely think a degree is a selection criteria, whether or not you could attain the skills without the degree. And as a pp said age. Many, many fields don't really have a place for persons who start "late". Right now many people are siimply not finding jobs in general. So all that works together. The successful people get creative. They find ways to use their training in entreprenureal ways rather than simple "be hired". If they still can't work for pay in the field, they volunteer and have a different paying job. Volunteering helps networking in the field to get a job and gets experience. Right now, I don't think it's enough to have a degree and good references.

[Tabrett]

I see this with many college educated people. I think we have become college crazy and have been told that if we get a degree we will make more money. But, there are only so many high paying jobs. More people getting a degree doesn't equal more high paying jobs. It just means that the few higher paying jobs have a bigger pool to choose from.

I want my children to get a degree where you must be certified in order to be hired. I feel that makes your degree more valuable. Companies can't hire someone for pennies on the dollar and train them to do the job.

[lgm]

The degree itself could be a problem, depending on what it is. It may not be enough for what the entry level job is requiring.

 

Another part of the problem is flexibility in relocating...some people just won't consider going where the job is. Or they don't have enough put away to handle the relocation expenses.

 

Hopefully your friend is using the college's career center to help her.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

By KJB I think in order to break into a competitive field, you need both education and youth to name one other. People like to hire and develop potential.

 

Frankly, that fact that only young hires are desirable is a sad commentary on age discrimination. For most of human history our elders were revered, and now I have read article after article about how 40 something is perceived as too old:001_huh: I think is is unwise for businesses to discriminate against the older worker since they often bring a wealth of experience with them as well as a good working ethic;) It is simply not true that you cannot teach an old dog new tricks:)

 

 

As for the college degree, I would be very careful what field you select as it is true that there are many college grads out there who cannot find a job and have thousands and thousands of dollars in student loans:sad:

 

 

Just my 2 cents as an older person;)

Edited June 14, 2009 by priscilla

[Jane in NC]

In part the OP's question returns us to the perennial debate which has existed since I was in college (and probably long before): Does one attend college for a job or an education?

 

Back in the '70's when I earned my BS (yeah, I'm that old), liberal arts degrees were common. Business as a major was an oddity--students who were interested in business usually studied economics and/or accounting. Computer Science did not exist as a degree. Hence those then innovative companies (like IBM) hired the best and the brightest liberal arts people who knew how to think. One of my friends who worked for IBM in the '70's and '80's has a BA in history from an Ivy. Today computer companies are more inclined to hire people with Computer Science or Information Technology degrees.

 

So those of us who are middle aged today could not really have studied specific skills in college related to many of today's jobs. Does this mean we should not have atttended college?

 

For me, the answer is a resounding NO! I am extraordinarily grateful for my liberal arts background which I think has shaped me to be an informed citizen, a reasonable successful homeschooler and an idiosyncratic human (which I suppose I would be without my degrees).

 

Granted, the debt that I took on for my BS was minimal because of scholarships and grants. Some of today's degrees seem to come at a high price. I think that a student has to balance what his family can afford with his career objectives. Further, creative ways of funding degrees abound (concurrent enrollment for free or inexpensive credits, less expensive state schools, work/study programs). My husband and I were both paid to attend graduate school. (Not much, but it paid the rent and put beans and rice on the table.)

 

I think the fallacy is that a degree is an automatic door of entry to the job market. It is not. As others have pointed out, people must still sell them selves, create their reality.

 

I will also agree with others who mentioned the issue of age, particularly in this economy. My father has pointed out to me that this is common in a down cycle: business tries to shed its higher paid (older) employees to lower costs. The bean counters may say this is a good thing, but productivity can suffer when experienced (and sometimes wiser) people are eliminated.

 

Jane

Edited June 14, 2009 by Jane in NC

[Melinda in VT]

I want my kids to be life-long learners. I also want them to be able to support themselves by doing work they find satisfying.

 

Ideally, from my perspective, they would go to college for four (or more) years, graduate with minimal debt, and start a career.

 

We don't always live in my ideal world.:glare:

 

I think people in college should know if their degree is preparing them for a job or not. If not, they need to have a plan for getting a career once they are done.

[TraceyS/FL]

There is a Chemical Engineer working at the gas station around the corner from me. He said he'd gone back to school for that, graduating in the last 2 years... his mother now reminds him that he was accepted to Med School "back then" (back when he was young! LOL!!) and chose to not go.... he wouldn't be working at the gas station these days had he gone that route.

 

In some areas, you don't have a lot of choices right now.

[kalanamak]

 

Young, educated, and hungry (as in willing to do a lot for very little) are first served.

 

 

Some of us just aren't aggressive enough. I finally ended up in an under-served profession that many run from because it was so easy to get work. I just couldn't "sell" myself. I think I had/have an underlying tendency to be very deferential to people in power, and since I could live on restaurant wages, I did. Oh well.

 

A friend of mine has a masters in psychology. She ended up working on an astrology hotline. She listened to the person (they were always troubled), gave some logic about the moon being in Jupiter, and proceeded to do counseling. She said most of the callers needed a wise mother to tell them it was okay to leave the jerk after he had broken her nose, etc.

[Mommyof4ks]

I am back in school at 33 and worried about the same thing. However, I plan to get an internship while still in school to build experience and *prove* myself.

 

This is what my DH did, took an internship. He ended up with a couple of job offers before he graduated and a higher than usual starting salary. He is still working for that company 10 years later and is doing quite well.

[Dirtroad]

Maybe more common than we may realize....

 

I have a Masters in Ag with study in Reproductive Physiology.... I got my first job after grad school as a Juvenile Probation Officer. Go figure!

[Hannah]

How a person interviews (some of the most brilliant people are very awkward socially), their experience outside of just education, their personal references, how the dress/act/smell (unkempt appearance, even if the clothes are nice) and how the resume is written are all factors that can make a person more or less marketable than someone else.

 

 

 

This is SO true. I periodically have to screen résumés and I throw those with spelling errors and bad formatting out without a second glance. It may not be fair, but someone who hasn't spent enough time making sure that their first impression is professional, has failed over the first hurdle.

 

Appearance at the interview is also important. It shows that you care enough to make the effort and that you've paid attention to the details.

 

Preparation is also important. Show that you've done your homework about the company. Search for typical interview questions and rehearse answers with a friend. It gives one the confidence boost when the time comes to answer.

 

In my opinion, it's extremely important to get a degree in a field where there are lots of job openings. It's simple supply and demand economics.

 

:iagree: A degree is the key to opening certain doors. Degrees in some fields open larger and more doors than others.

[DawnM]

I would not say this is typical for the people I know.

I personally can't think of anyone, family or friend, who is currently sitting on a BA or MA and still working jobs outside of their field.

 

I read recently that even though the unemployment rate is 10%, only 3% of those people are those with degrees.

 

Dawn

[mcconnellboys]

I've met lots of people in the past ten years who have master's degrees or even higher level degrees (lawyers, CPA's, etc.) who are not working in their field of study, who are unemployed, or are underemployed.

 

The Master's degree seems to be the new bachelor's degree of the past and seems almost a requirement to consider oneself finished with college.

 

I'm not sure that any sort of degree anymore provides one with a shoe-in for any sort of job. I think presentation, common sense, skill level in performing a job, ability to think outside the box, etc. are skills that are much more important to innovative employers.

 

Master's or not, I keep hearing that tons of employers have to train their employees once they hire them, provide remediations of various types so that they can just do their jobs, and *still* some don't make the cut....

[asta]

I agree with the concept of going to college to learn more and better ways to think. And that a Master's degree is the new Baccalaureate.

 

I've never gotten a job due to my particular degree: I get them because I know how to think, and I know to research the employer to find what they want.

 

I believe that there are simply too many people who, for lack of a better example, want to get a job at IBM, but are sporting dreds and multiple facial piercings. Now, they may be entirely qualified intellectually, but IBM simply isn't looking for that.

 

Individuality is great, but people have to recognize that society catalogs and characterizes people into certain jobs. Patchouli says "coffee house", not "Office of Management and Budget".

 

JMO

 

 

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