Right Start? Life of Fred?

[corbie]

I have an 8 yr old that is good at math but hates it. She has used Math U See and now Horizons. She does well, but every day is torture.

 

I've seen a lot of talk about Right Start and Life of Fred. I'm afraid of Right start being too teacher intensive. I have 4 kids. Maybe I'm wrong. I'd like to hear more about it. LOF sounds like a perfect fit. She LOVES reading and has a great sense of humor. However, it looks like she needs a little more of the basics before she could use LOF. Would RS be good? I could continue with Horizons, but I want her to not detest math. My older dd LOVES math. Is there another book like LOF for earlier years?

[Haiku]

If you don't want teacher intensive, then RS would not be for you. The teacher must teach every lesson. There really is no independent work, at least not in the early levels.

 

LOF starts after kids have already completed a basic arithmetic course.

 

Tara

[Spetzi]

We love Horizons, so I'll try not to be defensive. ;)

 

What does she detest about it? Does it move at the wrong pace for her? Too many tasks in each lesson? Too much color?

 

Ds finished Horizons and moved to L of F.

[corbie]

Spitzi - I didn't mean to slam Horizons. I really like it. She just dislikes math in general, and Horizons is not improving her attitude. She gets the topics, she just hates the computation. I limit her actual computation problems to 3-4 digit addition and 3-4 digit subtraction. If she gets those right, I call it good. If she gets one wrong, she fixes it and does one more.

 

I realize Right Start will be more teacher intensive, but I'm wondering how much time is needed. What I'm getting at, is that I would be willing to set aside time for her to teach her math lesson. Right now, she is taking an hour or more some days to do math. My feeling is that if I could make it palatable for her, I might only need 30 min. That, I could do. Maybe, I just need to sit with her through Horizons.

 

I don't mean to sound like I don't want to teach my kids. I just can't set aside an hour for each kid for math every day.

 

I was so excited about LOF, I may get it for my older dd and save it for younger dd's. I appreciate the input. I would love to hear more about RS or how others have adapted Horizons for math haters! :001_smile:

[corbie]

Another thing I had questions about is the math games. What are they like? Would my 5th grader be bored playing too? If we could incorporate math games into our regular game playing (which we all love), maybe it would work.

[rjperez1]

I have 4. 8,7,4,2. I had mono this year for 3mo. and residual since then which held us up. We got about half way through the math and are finishing this summer. Yes, teacher intensive during the lessons which could stretch for 45min. for each dc. However, I got smart and realized you don't need to do everything. We bought it mostly for the games which are GREAT (IMO). They get great practice with the games and they love them. You'd think I was telling them to play a video game or something by the way they react.

 

I love the program, but it does take a bit of time with two children doing it. Sometimes I combined because 1st abd 2nd overlap a bit. It is such a fun and creative way of doing math. I made connections in math that I never had before and really thought it was neat!

 

I have been considering changing because of the time factor back to MUS, but there is no comparison. We enjoy Right Start so much more. I don't know about Life of Fred. If you do Right Start it will be thorough. The AL Abacus is fun as well as all the other manipulatives (my kids love them and are never bored). There is also an emphasis from the beginning on mental math that gots a bit challenging for us, but they have stuck with it. I enjoyed watching them be challenged after a year of watching ds8 breeze through his MUS lessons with zero help from me He didn't retain much either. No offense to MUS users.

[rjperez1]

I accidentally posted before I was ready. Sorry for all the typos. I also wanted to mention that the lessons are scripted. I never really prepped ahead of time to teach it. 1 or 2 lessons had some things I had to cut out, but I used some of the other manipulatives in place of that prep work (only 1 or 2 lessons). Hope this helps!

[Marla]

We've used RS Level B & C. Yes, it is teacher intensive in that you have to sit down and actually teach the lesson BUT IMHO, it is not difficult to teach and I'm NOT a math whiz. It took me a few weeks to get the hang of the RS way of thinking when we began level B, but now I open the TM and go. RS actually recommends that you only spend 30 minutes on the math lesson even if it means splitting a lesson into two days. There are more games to play than you'll ever need and they have increasing levels of difficulty for each skill set (Numeration, Addition, Subtraction, Multiplication, Division, Fractions, Clocks, Money, etc.) so can be used successfully with various age levels. In fact your older child, could play some of the Level B games with your younger children, etc... Sounds like RS meets your criteria since you are willing to spend 30 minutes teaching math and your family likes to play games.

[corbie]

Julia & Marla,

 

Thanks for the replies. I'm wondering if I could just buy the games for now (still have 3/4 year of Horizons left) and go from there. I could play the games and use Horizons to finish out 2nd grade. Then I would have a better idea what would work. We've only been at Horizons 4 mos or so. Although, I'm interested in my younger girls too.

 

Of course when I find a great fit for one, the next one can't stand it.

 

I have all the MUS dvd's from Prima - Epsilon, but my 2nd dd hates MUS!

 

I truly appreciate the input. Thanks again.

 

K

[Annabel Lee]

Corbie,

My 2nd grader went through a phase much like your dc. Math was taking forever because of his pouting and dawdling. So, here's what I do now: I do all the "teacher stuff" (parts I have to be there for) like speed drills, teaching new concepts, going through the lesson in the TM w/ him, etc. first. Then when all that is left is work he can do on his own, he has a set amount of time (sometimes with a timer) to get it done. Any remainder becomes "homework" and will cut into his own freetime after school. We put it away and move on to the next subject. This has helped all of us.

Another thing I've done, when things were really bad, was to let him do the page orally. I'd do the writing, but he had to tell me what to write, and where. That made it go 100x faster, which made me realize he wasn't beginning to hate math at all; he hated sitting and writing out all those numbers. I too cross out a large portion of problems when the page has 2 or 3 solid rows.

[Suzannah]

I can't speak to your questions about RS or other programs, but DS has been using LOF this year and absolutely loves it. He also has a poor math attitude, but we had actually reached a point in Saxon where it was just too much, too fast so switched to Teaching Textbooks mid-year. We use LOF either a couple of times a week instead of our other math or in addition to it (DS enjoys it so much he doesn't mind doing multiple lessons in one day...go figure.)

 

If you're thinking of getting it for your older DD anyway, you might show it to the younger so she has something to look forward to. It might motivate her to push through her regular math.

 

I didn't see what level she is, but if you're pretty close to being ready for LOF (able to multipy and divide easily) maybe just some workbooks over the summer would get her ready for it? Just a thought. Good luck!

 

BTW, DS still doesn't enjoy math. I heard a couple of years ago that most of those mathy kids in Singapore and Japan who are #1 in the world in math don't actually enjoy math etiher. But LOF is enjoyable and it looks like the concepts are sticking.

 

Blessings!

[Marla]

I'm wondering if I could just buy the games for now (still have 3/4 year of Horizons left) and go from there. I could play the games and use Horizons to finish out 2nd grade. Then I would have a better idea what would work. We've only been at Horizons 4 mos or so.

 

Many buy RS games to supplement their current math program so this is a great option! My dd still doesn't "enjoy" math even with RS, but when I contemplated using another math program, she begged to stick with RS. I don't know if she will ever "enjoy" math. She hated MUS because the mastery approach caused her to get stuck as she had difficulty getting her addition facts down. I'm not sure which Level you'd start with but RS does not have a lot of worksheets. The facts are learned through playing card games so that is an important part of the program.

Edited June 10, 2009 by Marla

[corbie]

Thanks for all your responses. You all have given me ideas to think about. I think games, whether they are from RS or elsewhere might help. LOF sounds like a winner. It's not much of an investment to check it out. I know I'm never going to get her to love math. I'm just frustrated. It's a crucial skill, and she really is good at it. She's impatient and fidgety. Math takes too long for her. Maybe she will outgrow some of this.

 

Thanks again!:)

[Marla]

Corbie, If she's good at math, RS would probably be great because she'd catch on quickly. The way it helps children understand math conceptually is phenomenal. I'm not saying you should switch from Horizons, but just wanted to add that thought as I know you were concerned about how much time it'd take to do RS.

 

It took my dd longer to get through the RS lessons because math isn't her thing, but she is making progress and my dh, who is a math person, is pleased with the "math mind" she is developing. As a side note, I decided to have her "try out" Christian Light over the summer as I wanted her to gain more independence, etc.. and have more practice with computation skills. She is begging to go back to RS.

[susie in tx]

Thanks for all your responses. You all have given me ideas to think about. I think games, whether they are from RS or elsewhere might help. LOF sounds like a winner. It's not much of an investment to check it out. I know I'm never going to get her to love math. I'm just frustrated. It's a crucial skill, and she really is good at it. She's impatient and fidgety. Math takes too long for her. Maybe she will outgrow some of this.

 

 

 

Even non-mathy kids can like math. Sometimes it takes a different way of doing it to like it. I have 5 kids. I've taught 3 levels of RS at one time. It isn't fun, but it's doable. Your dd may be able to do math more quickly once she learns the RS tricks. I never learned these tricks and I can do math in my head much more quickly than when I was a child. I really think that your dd may even begin to like math with RS. :)

 

My dd that is doing LOF hasn't always loved RS but she knows how to do it . There have been times when she has enjoyed it. She seems to really like LOF.

[corbie]

Thanks Susie. It looks like she would be in level C. I think there will be alot of review for her with that. But, I'm thinking she would need to re-learn their way. She really doesn't know her facts as well as I think she should. I probably won't switch until fall. I just hate to invest in another program. Pretty soon, I'll have at least one level of all math programs! BTW, I have 4 girls. (10,8,4,and 2) It's fun, isn't it?

[susie in tx]

Lots of girls are great. Level C is a good level. Your dd may find new tricks for getting her math facts down. I know I did. LOL Feel free to do more than one lesson a day, or even to combine lessons some days. Once you get the hang of the program, you can whip through stuff. Likewise, if you need to spend more time on a day, you can. My girls were older when they went through Level C and we didn't always stick to the one lesson a day, or spend more than one day on lessons that were supposed to take a couple of days.

[rjperez1]

You could but the games and try them out. They are very fun. The math games book and manipulatives come when you buy the complete program. I don't know if that would mess you up. Maybe you could get it used. If I were to discontinue RS math I would for sure keep the math games book because they are so fun and clever.

[chontaveal]

Another thing I had questions about is the math games. What are they like? Would my 5th grader be bored playing too? If we could incorporate math games into our regular game playing (which we all love), maybe it would work.

 

We did RS level A this year with 4/5yo. My 5th grader played the math games. He had fun right along with him, even though they were super easy for him. I'd use the games no matter what curriculum you use.

[emmsmama]

I'd recommend you buy the games and use those for now and see how it goes and then maybe you can jump right into LoF to save $$ and time. Ds just finished up RS A and dd has one lesson left in RS D. I started dd in RS B 2 yrs. ago when I started hs'ing her and I really like the program; most days dd likes it too ;)

 

Level A with ds usually took 15-30 mins./day. Level B with dd took about an hour, but some days we were doubling-up on lessons. Level C and D sometimes took an hour, but part of that was her doing a worksheet, not me having to sit right next to her and teach. Dd often takes longer than necessary to complete a lesson as well because she is highly distractable, so I have to constantly try to keep her on task. I'd say typically a Level C lesson would probably take 30-45 mins. if you don't have a dawdler :)

[corbie]

emmsmama - Thanks for the lgoical response. I really don't know if I need to learn a new method, just need to make math a little more tolerable for dd. I just tested her at Math Mammoth. It helped to see where her weaknesses are. I'm just not sure my dd would go for all the manipulatives. She just wants it quick. She loves mental math. Any games that are really fun, she will play. Are the games really fun? Do your kids really enjoy them? My dd is difficult when it comes to school work. I'm afraid the RS games won't disguise the eduacational element enough. Any thoughts/input?

[emmsmama]

emmsmama - Thanks for the lgoical response. I really don't know if I need to learn a new method, just need to make math a little more tolerable for dd. I just tested her at Math Mammoth. It helped to see where her weaknesses are. I'm just not sure my dd would go for all the manipulatives. She just wants it quick. She loves mental math. Any games that are really fun, she will play. Are the games really fun? Do your kids really enjoy them? My dd is difficult when it comes to school work. I'm afraid the RS games won't disguise the eduacational element enough. Any thoughts/input?

 

Hmm, I'd say dd likes the games more than doing a worksheet, but would prefer to lay in bed and read a novel or play Webkinz instead if given the choice. They are fun and don't come across as completely educational, but I can't say for sure if your dd will love them. There is a huge variety of games in the Math Card Games set though, so even if she wasn't crazy over one game, she might like another. If you are unsure it would definitely be a cheaper route to go than to get the whole level kit, though you could always use it with younger kiddos if dd doesn't go for it and it has a pretty good resale value as well.

 

Ds hasn't played the games much in Level A, so I can't share experience with him with the card games yet.

 

I can say that I can't imagine going with any other program with my two kids now that I've tried RS. It's very thorough and logical. It is a spiral-mastery program is what I like to call it. It's not a mastery program in the same sense as MUS where you have to memorize math facts before moving on, but it does make sure kids get a very thorough understanding of what is being taught. However, rarely do you have to stick in one spot on one concept because there is a lot of review built in. Ex. in Level C you review times tables a lot, but then in D you are still reviewing them daily. So if you have a child that memorizes their times tables really quickly then you can skip that part of the warm-up, but if your child is still struggling with some facts, they are going to get daily review of them *while still moving on with other concepts*.

[corbie]

My post came across wrong. I'm thinking and typing at the same time. Sorry! We've used MUS with this DD. She does get it, she just hates doing the work and doesn't have her facts, etc.. down. I think you are right about the games. I just know she has played math games with colorful cards with illustrations. She doesn't even always like those. I know I sound crazy, I think I'm having math curriculum burnout. I really hate to spend another $180 for another curriculum. I'm looking at Math Mammoth with maybe an abacus or RS card games. I'm so tired of looking at math curriculum! Ugh! Sorry if I sounded rude. I'm tired!

[christine in al]

Free for the printing,

 

We just finished our 3rd year of RS , but I am supplimenting with MEP this coming year and with Evan Moor word problems. ( I think Singapore word problems might be better but we jsut aren't there)

 

If money is a concern ( and where isn't it??) you may want to check the Right Start Yahooo group and Ebay for used manuals.

 

I would get the RS games manual and try using those for the facts. My kids really like them and there are even some that are more exercises and can be played alone. like solitaire. And use the MEP program for spine. ( I"m onl holiday so I"ll be off the computer for several days. just google MEP math and you should find it. I learned about it on this board, so starting with a serach here would make even more sense.

I understand math curriculum burnout , good luck.

 

~christine in AL

[corbie]

Christine - Thanks for the info. I checked out MEP, very interesting resource! I think I will use it with my Kindergartener. I plan on using Math Mammoth with my 8 yr old. I also am going to get Right Start games kit. We'll see how that goes over the summer. Thank you for your help.

[walkermamaof4]

I just wanted to add that I too own several MUS levels and switched to RS. I love, love, love it. I can't imagine anything else now. It is so much mental math and my kids are enjoying figuring it out! All of my kids do it now and all beg to play the games. I have my 4 yr old listen and answer and play games with us and we help him along. But the other 3 all do it. It is much faster for us so far than any other math methods we've tried (MUS, BJU 3 last year, R&S 1-3). But we haven't gotten into C yet.

 

BTW, I started my then 5 y.o. in A and realized that he could probably do B after we hit about lesson 30. So now we all listen in and fly through A and then all do B. I was afraid we'd have gaps if we didn't all run through it all. This is working for us and everyone is happy. I've been shocked at how much my older ones didn't know after doing R&S 3 and then BJU 3 and now flying through RS B for a quick recap!!! They really didn't know how to think, just to memorize, even though they both did MUS for their first 2 years too.

 

If you switch, I'd recommend getting the Transition book first and then moving into C. I think you'll find it a great fit. But I haven't used LofF. To me, the games in RS wouldn't be quite as helpful without pairing them with the curriculum. I'm glad we made the total switch. it just makes it easy to have the curriculum tell me which game to play today that reinforces what we've just thought through with the abacus. Then we also play ones we've learned previously.

 

hth!

[siloam]

Thanks for all your responses. You all have given me ideas to think about. I think games, whether they are from RS or elsewhere might help. LOF sounds like a winner. It's not much of an investment to check it out. I know I'm never going to get her to love math. I'm just frustrated. It's a crucial skill, and she really is good at it. She's impatient and fidgety. Math takes too long for her. Maybe she will outgrow some of this.

 

Thanks again!:)

 

I bought Right Start for my 2nd dd who is a hands on learner, but it didn't take long for my oldest to decide it looked like fun. Now my oldest was already doing Singapore, and in the 2 books (she was 3rd grade, but Singapore tends to be a year ahead, so right on for her grade level). Because she is older and gets the concepts quickly I often don't require her to use the manipulatives. The warm ups she adores, and the likes the games (some more than others). She does two lessons a day, and that probably takes us about 20-40 mins at most. If she gets what is going on I don't have her do all the samples, or we do them quickly. She does all the worksheets and practice sheets. She plays the games with her sisters, which means she actually is playing the games about a level below where she is working, because those are the games they know. She started in level B in 3rd grade and is now wrapping up level D in 5th and will start level E by fall.

 

For my dd RS has given her a fluency, a comfort level she didn't have with Signapore alone. She did well with math when she just did Singapore (took the CAT at the end of 3rd grade), but math was her least favorite subject. Now with RS she thinks she is good at math, and she likes it as a topic. Ok she would still dump the Singapore in a heart beat if I let her, but she adores RS. It is one of her favorite programs.

 

Heather

 

[corbie]

Thanks to everyone who helped me choose these items. They have both been a huge hit here! We got Life of Fred Fractions. DD (10) LOVES it. So far, it is all review for her, but I saw some new material ahead. I can already tell that I will be getting the decimal book soon.

 

RS games are great! It's practically a curriculum in itself, especially for the younger ones. I copied all the extra games in the appendix and laminated them. My 4 yr old loves them. Corners is the fave with the rest of us. Even my math hating 3rd grader wants to play. Sometimes I have to make her, but I've developed a strategy. I tell her I will play a game of her choice after she plays the math game. Whatever works. :001_smile: I am SO tempted to go with RS for a full curriculum. We're doing Math Mammoth and RS games now. Maybe that is good enough.

 

Anyway, thanks again. This board is such a great source of info.