Am I thinking clearly...or overreacting?

[ChemMommy]

My SIL#1 lives two doors down from SIL#2. Both are SAHM's (mostly). On Sunday, with both dad and mom home in house #1, the 5yo (who just finished pre-school) was sent down the street to "see" if anyone was around to play with. Now, "down the street" is around the corner and down toward SIL#2's house. The kid ended up 3 houses down the street because that's where she found someone to play with (luckily my BIL#2).

 

THEN, the 3yo left the house and was wandering around the streets looking for her sister and for someone to play with. Thankfully, she rang the door at SIL#2's house and my SIL took her back home.

 

When she got the child back to her house, the parents' comments were

 

1. "Oh, there you are?" (They had no idea that she was missing or they just hadn't bothered to look for her but knew she was missing)

 

2. "I told Daddy that he had to take them out right away or they would run away." (They didn't know at this point where the 5yo was, BTW)

 

On Wednesday, the same 3yo was outside in the front yard alone.

 

They live in a nice neighborhood, but....I wouldn't let MY kids do that! I'm stunned that anyone would be so blase about a kid escaping from the house. BUT, it seems like SIL#1 is saying that this happens routinely.

 

I live in a nice, safe neighborhood, and have just begun to allow the 8 and 9yo in the front yard without direct supervision (and only if they are together). They certainly can't leave the property without permission.

 

So, am I just needing to be more sympathetic to a mom who has a kid who sneaks out frequently or does this seem odd to you.

 

My MIL and my dh want to see the "best" in this situation, but I see warning flags.

 

What would say in this situation? Or would you just keep quiet? We think the marriage at house #1 (the one with the escaping kids) is falling apart. Dh and I have talked about trying to adopt these kids.

 

What think you?

 

Oh, and thanks for dealing with the #1's and #2's in this story. Sounds more like a potty-training story than anything else with all the #1's and #2's! LOL

[Jean in Newcastle]

I would supervise my own children much more closely than they are being supervised.

 

I would pray for the children involved that it would not end up in a tragedy. I would also pray for the marriage that you think is in trouble.

 

I would not say anything. They know that the children are "escaping". They are choosing not to do anything about it. If I were asked, I would tell them my opinion that the children are too young to be unsupervised outside.

 

If you lived close and were able, you could offer to babysit the children at some point to give the parents a break.

 

I would not be trying to adopt children (even related) who are not up for adoption.

[Remudamom]

This would make me give birth to a full grown cow.

 

I've seen a child in diapers down the road a couple of times in front of a house. No adult. I'm ready to report the mom.

[Julie in Austin]

I was completely on-board with your take on the situation until you got to the part about adopting the kids . . . a sentiment that is, IMO, way out of line with the situation.

[ChemMommy]

I was completely on-board with your take on the situation until you got to the part about adopting the kids . . . a sentiment that is, IMO, way out of line with the situation.

 

 

...doesn't make a lot of sense unless you know the WHOLE long story. Would you please trust me that the "adoption" idea is NOT as crazy, knee-jerk as it seems from the first post. Escaping children is the MILDEST neglect we've seen.

 

How and when do you make the decision to report a relative for child neglect? Many hours of prayer have been said for this family.

[TraceyS/FL]

I was completely on-board with your take on the situation until you got to the part about adopting the kids . . . a sentiment that is, IMO, way out of line with the situation.

 

My parents tried to adopt my cousin when her parents broke up. They regret not pushing more, i'm sure my cousin would have had a better, more even, life. It's pretty bad what she went thru - and still is, her mom & step-father remain missing.

 

Because of that, i respect any family members that think that kids might need a helping hand.

[danybug]

I think you are thinking clearly. That is really a scary situation. God forbid what the dc could run into our have happen to them. I am so anal about my 8yo ds playing outside our home with friends. And he is not allowed to be out alone and we do live in a nice neighborhood.

 

I think when any dc are in a truly endangering situation or one where their true safety is in question should be reported. And I think this goes for a situation where you are truly aware of the variables, which it seems that you are. Have you tried to approach the parents in a non-confrontational manner about how the situation with the dc appears and how it worries your family?

[ravengal]

Let me say first that I don't think you are overreacting. Children that age need to be more supervised, of course. However, have you made an offer of help to this couple? Have you shared your concerns? How has this couple been able to be more than mildly neglectful without other family members speaking up prior to this incident?

 

Reporting a family to CPS is a serious step, and you cannot be certain that those children, if taken from their parents due to neglect, would end up in your home. They could end up in a foster home far worse than their home of origin.

[Ravin]

The five year old...if he/she can't follow directions, shouldn't be sent down the street to play. My DD is allowed to play out front on her own, and to go down the street if other kids are playing. She knows not to go further than the house where the other kids are, and to check with me before crossing the street. If she couldn't follow these instructions, she wouldn't be allowed out. I also allow her and the 6yo. I babysit out front to play together, they also know what boundaries they must stay within, and do. The 3 yo. (6yo.'s younger sib) is not allowed outside with them if I can't hear, which means not now when it's too hot to leave the door open so I can hear. The heat also means the older ones have limited desire to go out, so it doesn't usually leave 3yo. out much.

 

Not noticing your 3yo. has left the house...these people need a reality check. I've yet to meet a 3yo. with the maturity to play safely in the front yard (the back yard, sometimes).

[ChemMommy]

Let me say first that I don't think you are overreacting. Children that age need to be more supervised, of course. However, have you made an offer of help to this couple? Have you shared your concerns? How has this couple been able to be more than mildly neglectful without other family members speaking up prior to this incident?

 

Reporting a family to CPS is a serious step, and you cannot be certain that those children, if taken from their parents due to neglect, would end up in your home. They could end up in a foster home far worse than their home of origin.

 

 

First, we've been praying. Second, we've invited SIL#1 to Bible studies with other young mothers so that she might feel less isolated and maybe observe better parenting. Third, the grandparents (who live 1 mile away) have made themselves available to babysit on a moments notice and offer routinely to run errands for them.

 

What's so odd is that the neglectful (and worse) behavior only happens in front of the BILs and SILs, never in front of the grandparents. The BIL who is closest to the family has tried to discuss the state of their marriage. NO one has been very successful in discussing the parenting issues.

 

The conversations go like this:

 

ME: I remember when my dd was acting picky about food. It drove me crazy but finally it improved when I just let her get up from the table and just be hungry until the next meal.

 

SIL: Oh, that would never work for this child. This child is so ....(willful, disobedient, sick, allergy-prone--you pick an adjective) that she would never, ever agree to each what I want them to eat.

 

 

OR

 

ME (to child #2 during a tamtrum about putting on shoes): Which foot do you want a shoe on first?

 

SIL (grabbing shoe from my hand): Oh, she'll never listen to you. She's so stubborn. All that works is to grab her foot and shove the shoe on.

 

You get the idea. This SIL is never wrong and is not open to new ideas.

 

You're right. CPS is not a good way to go. I didn't that through. Although, a neighbor might end up calling.

 

We have offered to host the kids for a week or two this summer to relieve the stress. No go!

 

I'm just heartsick. I want to DO something, but it seems that I'm back to doing nothing and relying on God. Not a bad place to be, but a hard place to be.

 

Thanks all who read and listened and commented. I just needed to let someone hear my sadness tonight!

 

Good night, sweet hive!

[Jean in Newcastle]

While the going outside without supervision is dangerous and scary (and could very well warrant a neighbor calling CPS), the other stuff you mention, while not the best, isn't defined as neglect or abuse.

[Lovedtodeath]

Pam, I agree with you, including wishing you could adopt them. I have been there. When they are teenagers it will really break your heart.

[Pamela H in Texas]

Escaping children is the MILDEST neglect we've seen.

 

You report out of CARING and LOVE. Though it's a broken system, it is the one that is available. The great majority of the time, they are able to help parents get on track without removing the kids from the home. A lot of parents will straighten up simply because of the first visit. Others do great with parenting classes and a little guidance and oversight.

 

The other option is simply to confront the parents. You can easily be like, "ooooh, most people wouldn't be comfortable if they saw that. What if a stranger drives by and sees a 3 or 5yo out alone and calls the police or worse, takes your precious child?"

 

The only reason I mention reporting first though is because you said there is considerably more neglect going on. Can you live with yourself for not having done something if one of the kids is severely hurt, taken or killed? And if you call, Children's Services will know that you exist so may be able to help with the kids if the circumstances ARE too bad to leave the children there.

[ChemMommy]

While the going outside without supervision is dangerous and scary (and could very well warrant a neighbor calling CPS), the other stuff you mention, while not the best, isn't defined as neglect or abuse.

 

 

It's bad.

[Impish]

I have to agree. The escaping and wandering would have me keeled over in a dead faint, and I would absolutely have had my butt over there and having a serious toe-to-toe chat with Mom and Dad about it, including the fact that they could/should have been reported to authorities, and its a matter of time until someone does if it keeps happening.

 

The examples you gave, however, only sound to me as though you're upset that she doesn't follow your suggestions. And discussing adopting children that are not even being investigated by CPS is absolutely inappropriate. Unless and until either your BIL and SIL approach you and request that you adopt their children, OR the children are apprehended by CPS and are TPR'd, considering adopting someone else's children is incredibly over the line.

[lionfamily1999]

It almost sounds like sil has gotten too much help. IOW, maybe it is time to drop the "helpful suggestions" and let her mother her kids. Some of the things from the last post sound like what my family did to me. I finally got short and flat out nasty whenever they offered their help. Why? Because they're my kids, they've survived so far, thank you, now hush, iykwIm.

 

As far as a 3yo running outside alone. I would corral them, myself, and keep them in your back yard or house. I would not mention having them, I would not call, I would not knock on her door.

 

My neighbor had become pretty complacent, that her little dcs would never escape and her house was so "safe." I kept having to wrangle HER 2yos and send them home. The last time, I kept the kids. They played in the back with my dcs, they watched t.v., I cooked them dinner, lent them pjs and put them to bed (on my couch). When her dh got home, she realized the kids were gone. I heard all the fuss (on the porch with MY dh, explaining why we had their kids). When she claimed they must've "just slipped away a minute ago," we carried the kids across the street, I told her what she owed me for sitting, lunch and dinner, and then asked for better warning next time. They installed new locks that weekend and, hey, the kids didn't "escape" anymore.

[ChemMommy]

You report out of CARING and LOVE. Though it's a broken system, it is the one that is available. The great majority of the time, they are able to help parents get on track without removing the kids from the home. A lot of parents will straighten up simply because of the first visit. Others do great with parenting classes and a little guidance and oversight.

 

The other option is simply to confront the parents. You can easily be like, "ooooh, most people wouldn't be comfortable if they saw that. What if a stranger drives by and sees a 3 or 5yo out alone and calls the police or worse, takes your precious child?"

 

The only reason I mention reporting first though is because you said there is considerably more neglect going on. Can you live with yourself for not having done something if one of the kids is severely hurt, taken or killed? And if you call, Children's Services will know that you exist so may be able to help with the kids if the circumstances ARE too bad to leave the children there.

 

I don't think that any relative (okay, any sane relative) gets to the point of contemplating a call to CPS without serious thought and without serious concerns.

 

I like your comments about "oh, most people...". This might get through to her. I'll use that this weekend.

[Lovedtodeath]

It almost sounds like sil has gotten too much help. IOW, maybe it is time to drop the "helpful suggestions" and let her mother her kids. Some of the things from the last post sound like what my family did to me. I finally got short and flat out nasty whenever they offered their help. Why? Because they're my kids, they've survived so far, thank you, now hush, iykwIm.

 

As far as a 3yo running outside alone. I would corral them, myself, and keep them in your back yard or house. I would not mention having them, I would not call, I would not knock on her door.

 

My neighbor had become pretty complacent, that her little dcs would never escape and her house was so "safe." I kept having to wrangle HER 2yos and send them home. The last time, I kept the kids. They played in the back with my dcs, they watched t.v., I cooked them dinner, lent them pjs and put them to bed (on my couch). When her dh got home, she realized the kids were gone. I heard all the fuss (on the porch with MY dh, explaining why we had their kids). When she claimed they must've "just slipped away a minute ago," we carried the kids across the street, I told her what she owed me for sitting, lunch and dinner, and then asked for better warning next time. They installed new locks that weekend and, hey, the kids didn't "escape" anymore.

I loved this. But, wow, they were gone that long? This type of thing is definitely reportable neglect.

[Tree House Academy]

It's bad.

 

 

If it is that bad, CPS should definitely be called. Based on what you posted with the child "missing" and the parents being all "oh oops" about it....ehhh. But, if there is stuff happening that you can't/won't post on a public forum and it is bad enough that you want to adopt these kids, then something needed to be done - like yesterday.:blink:

[swellmomma]

As the mother of a runner I know what it is like to have your child escape and not know where they are. He is 10 dd is 9 and both have been runner's since toddlerhood, him more than her. Even now they still take off and I am left scratching my head wondering where they have gone now. That said, When they did vanish and still to this day, I do go out and look. WHen they were that small I called the police right away. We have also been working with their ped and shrink since that time to deal with these issues, at that age our house was locked up tighter than a prison, I slept ont eh floor outside their bedroom doors, windows were nailed shut etc and they still found ways to run (like as we tried to walk from house to car, or in the mall, or at the park etc). There is a big difference though between a parent who is struggling to keep the kids safe while dealing with escape artists and those who simply don't care. Only you know the truth on the issue. I have been investigated several times by CPS because of neighbors calling due to run away children, each time it has been proven that I was doing everything possible for the kids, working with the professionals etc to prevent this fro happening, not being neglectful.

 

Like someone else said if you suspect or KNOW that the kids are being abused/neglected than call CPS, they will investigate and either close the file as has happened with each of my investigations, offer supports or remove the children. Until that time any talk about adopting those kids is out of line.

 

I have family that has offered to "help" me by taking my difficult children off my hands for a while to give me a break. However, these are the family members that started enrolling them in ps with out my permission, tells them often how I am making the wrong choices for them as their parent, tell them daily they should be in daycare/ps etc I have put my foot down and said no the children can not stay there. I might need the break, but I do not need hte kids brainwashed into thinking that I am a terrible mother because I do things differently than my family member (she makes the comments about the food they eat, the sports they play, the haircuts they get, the clothes they wear etc everything I do is wrong because it is not her way- keep in mind she only had her first 1 year ago, and has been saying this stuff since I had my first).

 

Your SIL may be feeling the same way I feel about this family member, and see you as an interferring person who needs to mind your own business. I know that is how I feel about this family member and know that they are not someone I would want taking care of my kids for an extended period. Or it could be that abuse/neglect is actually happening and she is wanting to keep it hidden, that is something that can be figured out by CPS.

[swellmomma]

It almost sounds like sil has gotten too much help. IOW, maybe it is time to drop the "helpful suggestions" and let her mother her kids. Some of the things from the last post sound like what my family did to me. I finally got short and flat out nasty whenever they offered their help. Why? Because they're my kids, they've survived so far, thank you, now hush, iykwIm.

 

As far as a 3yo running outside alone. I would corral them, myself, and keep them in your back yard or house. I would not mention having them, I would not call, I would not knock on her door.

 

My neighbor had become pretty complacent, that her little dcs would never escape and her house was so "safe." I kept having to wrangle HER 2yos and send them home. The last time, I kept the kids. They played in the back with my dcs, they watched t.v., I cooked them dinner, lent them pjs and put them to bed (on my couch). When her dh got home, she realized the kids were gone. I heard all the fuss (on the porch with MY dh, explaining why we had their kids). When she claimed they must've "just slipped away a minute ago," we carried the kids across the street, I told her what she owed me for sitting, lunch and dinner, and then asked for better warning next time. They installed new locks that weekend and, hey, the kids didn't "escape" anymore.

 

 

Just a word of warning, if you keep the kids locked in your own house or yard, you can be charged with kidnapping if she was so inclined to press charges. Yes it was her negligence but she could tell the police they could not be found because you took them. For this reason I would not do this, I would call her or take them straight home if they appeared at my place.

[lionfamily1999]

I loved this. But, wow, they were gone that long? This type of thing is definitely reportable neglect.

About five hours.

Just a word of warning, if you keep the kids locked in your own house or yard, you can be charged with kidnapping if she was so inclined to press charges. Yes it was her negligence but she could tell the police they could not be found because you took them. For this reason I would not do this, I would call her or take them straight home if they appeared at my place.

I didn't lock them up and if they would have asked to go home, I would have took them back immediatly.

 

This wasn't the first time I ended up with them at the house.

[newlifemom]

As far as a 3yo running outside alone. I would corral them, myself, and keep them in your back yard or house. I would not mention having them, I would not call, I would not knock on her door.

 

My neighbor had become pretty complacent, that her little dcs would never escape and her house was so "safe." I kept having to wrangle HER 2yos and send them home. The last time, I kept the kids. They played in the back with my dcs, they watched t.v., I cooked them dinner, lent them pjs and put them to bed (on my couch). When her dh got home, she realized the kids were gone. I heard all the fuss (on the porch with MY dh, explaining why we had their kids). When she claimed they must've "just slipped away a minute ago," we carried the kids across the street, I told her what she owed me for sitting, lunch and dinner, and then asked for better warning next time. They installed new locks that weekend and, hey, the kids didn't "escape" anymore.

 

 

I have to say this is great! :D I could never do it, but boy oh boy, I bet she changed her ways.

[ChemMommy]

It almost sounds like sil has gotten too much help. IOW, maybe it is time to drop the "helpful suggestions" and let her mother her kids. Some of the things from the last post sound like what my family did to me. I finally got short and flat out nasty whenever they offered their help. Why? Because they're my kids, they've survived so far, thank you, now hush, iykwIm.

 

As far as a 3yo running outside alone. I would corral them, myself, and keep them in your back yard or house. I would not mention having them, I would not call, I would not knock on her door.

 

My neighbor had become pretty complacent, that her little dcs would never escape and her house was so "safe." I kept having to wrangle HER 2yos and send them home. The last time, I kept the kids. They played in the back with my dcs, they watched t.v., I cooked them dinner, lent them pjs and put them to bed (on my couch). When her dh got home, she realized the kids were gone. I heard all the fuss (on the porch with MY dh, explaining why we had their kids). When she claimed they must've "just slipped away a minute ago," we carried the kids across the street, I told her what she owed me for sitting, lunch and dinner, and then asked for better warning next time. They installed new locks that weekend and, hey, the kids didn't "escape" anymore.

 

The first paragraph was harsh. This isn't a difference of opinion of how to parent.

 

However, your second paragraph was brilliant. I've always encouraged SIL #2 to return the kids (and she's encouraged the neighbors to return the kids) promptly. I'll pass on the suggestion to just keep the kids and let the parents worry. Oh, I hope they worry! Not to make the parents feel bad, but just to remind them to keep a better watch on the kids.

[Laurie4b]

Just a word of warning, if you keep the kids locked in your own house or yard, you can be charged with kidnapping if she was so inclined to press charges. Yes it was her negligence but she could tell the police they could not be found because you took them. For this reason I would not do this, I would call her or take them straight home if they appeared at my place.

 

Absolutely. You don't have to keep them "locked" --just have to have kept them from wandering out of your yard.

[Laurie4b]

My SIL#1 lives two doors down from SIL#2. Both are SAHM's (mostly). On Sunday, with both dad and mom home in house #1, the 5yo (who just finished pre-school) was sent down the street to "see" if anyone was around to play with. Now, "down the street" is around the corner and down toward SIL#2's house. The kid ended up 3 houses down the street because that's where she found someone to play with (luckily my BIL#2).

 

THEN, the 3yo left the house and was wandering around the streets looking for her sister and for someone to play with. Thankfully, she rang the door at SIL#2's house and my SIL took her back home.

 

When she got the child back to her house, the parents' comments were

 

1. "Oh, there you are?" (They had no idea that she was missing or they just hadn't bothered to look for her but knew she was missing)

 

2. "I told Daddy that he had to take them out right away or they would run away." (They didn't know at this point where the 5yo was, BTW)

 

On Wednesday, the same 3yo was outside in the front yard alone.

 

They live in a nice neighborhood, but....I wouldn't let MY kids do that! I'm stunned that anyone would be so blase about a kid escaping from the house. BUT, it seems like SIL#1 is saying that this happens routinely.

 

I live in a nice, safe neighborhood, and have just begun to allow the 8 and 9yo in the front yard without direct supervision (and only if they are together). They certainly can't leave the property without permission.

 

So, am I just needing to be more sympathetic to a mom who has a kid who sneaks out frequently or does this seem odd to you.

 

My MIL and my dh want to see the "best" in this situation, but I see warning flags.

 

What would say in this situation? Or would you just keep quiet? We think the marriage at house #1 (the one with the escaping kids) is falling apart. Dh and I have talked about trying to adopt these kids.

 

What think you?

 

Oh, and thanks for dealing with the #1's and #2's in this story. Sounds more like a potty-training story than anything else with all the #1's and #2's! LOL

 

What you described here isn't everyone's style of parenting, but it would not amount to neglect in most jurisdictions. Every kid on our block was treated like this when I was growing up. The mother's watched whoever was in their yard. The same was true in my former neighborhood--a 3 year old was allowed to ride her bike by herself with no parental supervision. Another neighbor, who worked for CPS, told me that wouldn't be considered "reportable."

 

In the situation you describe, there are apparently 1 or 2 family members in homes nearby, which makes the situation more acceptable in any scenario.

 

However, you keep hinting that something terrible is going on regarding abuse or neglect. It's confusing , if there are bad things going on, why you post asking questions about something really not so bad. If you are not doing anything about something bad, why agonize over something mild?

 

If, in fact, there is abuse or neglect (not differences in parenting philosophies) and family members like you know about it and the children are taken by CPS, they will NOT be placed in the home of you or any other family member who knew about the abuse/neglect and didn't report it.

[lionfamily1999]

The first paragraph was harsh. This isn't a difference of opinion of how to parent.

 

However, your second paragraph was brilliant. I've always encouraged SIL #2 to return the kids (and she's encouraged the neighbors to return the kids) promptly. I'll pass on the suggestion to just keep the kids and let the parents worry. Oh, I hope they worry! Not to make the parents feel bad, but just to remind them to keep a better watch on the kids.

It wasn't meant to be harsh. I got a lot of "useful" advice from my family for a very long time. It got to the point where I had had enough of their "help" and started getting nasty. Some of the things used as examples sounded, to me, like the sort of advice that gets to be irritating after a very short period of time.

 

I'm glad you like the idea. It can work. As others have pointed out, don't "lock" the kids up, make sure if they ask they get home immediately. Otherwise, keep em' till they're missed.