Normal boy behavior?

[Mom-ninja.]

Thank you everyone for responding. You've been helpful.

Edited May 29, 2009 by Kleine Hexe

[MIch elle]

A father that not just lives with them but is emotionally present for the boys and plays with them?

 

I'd GET AWAY from that family!

[Chris in VA]

Even if his inclinations are to be rough and rowdy, he needs to be taught when it's socially acceptable, and learn boundaries. She's totally missing this opportunity by saying he's just "being a boy."

I wouldn't play with him until she teaches those boundaries.

[SonshineLearner]

Hey There,

 

Confession time, I suppose. My son has only bitten twice, at the same park....the older children. (He's now almost 6) The first time, I explained about biting. The second time we went, I warned on the way to the park...Remember all the fun things you get to do at the park?? Remember that we need to be kind??...and he still bit...so we left...went home and then he got spanked.

He tends to be very hyper and rough. He loves running and tagging and wrestling and just really different things than say my three girls.

My son has a great...very present...father. (and we're married...so they live in the same house:-)

He's just always been a "climber of the walls". He's also got a very sensitive side.

I would tell the boys next time they played, "Remember, we don't hurt others. If anyone forgets, we're gonna pack up and leave." (Of course, prep your boys before you get there....) And then do it. I don't always leave, depending on how far I traveled and what the situation is. I do take hurting others seriously and there's some consequence. I also think that some of the problem is when adults get together and leave children who don't play often...off in another room. Even if hitting is normal, you don't want for your boys to get hit. Maybe if you're not able/willing to leave, you can suggest that your boys do a "time-in". I don't know...kids who hit, shove, whatever...and just get to leave the room for a minute...just doesn't seem like that works..... How would your friend like it if YOU hit HER? It's just not nice:-(

Carrie

[MelanieM]

Hmm. I think physical play can be 'normal' for many boys. Certainly, my 4yo loves to play wrestle, throw things, etc. However, he understands that this is not appropriate unless the other person is also willing, or the object is safe to throw. And I would remove him from situations if he were getting out of control - i.e. being too rough, trying to wrestle with someone that obviously doesn't want to do that, throwing things that are not meant for throwing or cause safety concerns for others.

 

So is it normal to want to do these things? Perhaps. Is that the issue here? From the limited amount you've posted, I'm thinking no. It sounds more like this boy simply doesn't have a grasp on appropriate boundaries of play, and I think that's more about parental guidance than anything else. If the mother doesn't think it's an issue, then why would the child?

 

If you do want to continue getting together with this family, perhaps you can set some boundaries for your own children. Maybe you could explain to the children as a group that if your kids become uncomfortable with what's happening you'll provide them with a safe, separate place to play? What would happen if you stepped in and said something like "I'm sorry Jimmy, but my boys aren't enjoying this so we'll have to find some other way to play that works for everyone, or end our play time here."? Basically, if the other mother isn't responding in a way you feel is appropriate, I think you have a right to step in yourself.

[Cornflower]

I would go with your kids on this one. If they don't want to play with these children I would not make them (even if they do I would not let them) You don't want them to pick up these behaviors.

 

This must be hard because of your friend. Maybe you could just spend time with her on occasion when your husband is home and can hang out with your kids.

 

Cornflower

[Paintedlady]

I've known a boy or two (and one girl) who acted that way, although I found them annoying, I didn't find their bahavior abnormal.

 

I think their are kids who tend toward that kind of behavior, but are taught by their parents to act appropriately and over time they learn to tame themselves. Then there are those same kinds of kids who parents call their behavior "typical," who do not teach them, and these kids continue to grow up and spin out of control.

 

Some good friends of ours have the girl I mentioned earlier. This girl is as wild and impulsive as you can imagine. She'd hit, bite, stomp, tantrum, etc... to the extreme. This was their 3rd child (they now have 4) and none of the other kids was that way. It took years to get her to settle enough that she could be around other kids, and she's still the wild child of the group, but acts appropriately most of the time. She just tends to need more handling than average. BUT, they are very resolute about training her how to behave and helping her to understand how to control herself.

 

I really think the difference is in whether or not they're taught to modify their behavior or are allowed to do as they wish. I'd probably look for friendship elsewear if your friend continues down the "aint gonna do nothin about it" road. ;)

Edited May 29, 2009 by Paintedlady

[Snickerdoodle]

I know a couple of boys like this. I think it's still in the range of normal. Some kids tend to be more rough and tumble and destructive.

 

That said, I think there are some parenting issues going on too. I have one that is definitely on the high end of rough and rowdy, but I also have explicit, clear, don't mess with Mama guidelines for him.

[Guest Alte Veste Academy]

Even if his inclinations are to be rough and rowdy, he needs to be taught when it's socially acceptable, and learn boundaries. She's totally missing this opportunity by saying he's just "being a boy."

I wouldn't play with him until she teaches those boundaries.

 

:iagree:

[Amy in NH]

Am I incorrect in thinking that this behavior goes beyond "typical boy" behavior?

 

Not normal. I have three boys, also. I have experienced friends with overly aggressive kids, who thought their kids were engaging in normal play. I have had to quietly remove myself from those friendships to protect my kids. It is sad when it has to come to that, but my kids' well-being is more important than the friendship.

[Tammyla]

His mom's response is what would concern me. He needs direction, corrections and consequences for his aggressive actions. Thinking is good, but it isn't working.

[lgm]

Many parents don't think they have a role in teaching civilized behavior or how to be a friend. Some confuse aggression with assertiveness. Others grew up with it and don't know what acceptable child behavior should be. I sincerely hope mama isn't being shoved around by daddy and the adults aren't throwing chairs or destroying objects.

 

I handle it by stating the house rules to everyone at the beginning of the visit. "Just to let you know, everyone here is a friend. Friends don't hurt friends. That means there is no biting, no shoving, no hitting, no kicking, no throwing and no excluding. If you want to play at my house, you go by the house rules. If you don't like the rules, you can sit on the couch and read. If you break the rules, it means you're done playing & you can sit on the couch until your parent is ready to take you home. "

 

I don't visit those that don't have similar safety rules; we can meet at the park where it's easy to leave if poor behavior starts.

[momofkhm]

This mom is missing the bus if she is allowing him to continue this behavior. She's is going to end up with an aggressive 16 yo who cannot be controlled if she doesn't nip this behavior in the bud.

 

Normal but not appropriate also would include a 2 yo biting. For the age it's normal behavior. But it's not appropriate so it must be trained out of the child.

 

Nayfiesmama - I see what you are doing as trying to train it out of the child. You see the behavior as inappropriate and deal with it. One thing I would change though - if you say "if x happens, we're leaving", then when x happens you need to leave. (I'm horrible at consistency as well. Pot, kettle, black situation!) Either you have to leave when x happens, or make the warning different: "If x happens, you will have to sit with me, not playing, for y minutes." Then you aren't leaving since you drove a long way, but he is getting the consequence you warned him about. :grouphug::grouphug:

[JudoMom]

I would say it's typical boy behavior when a boy who is agressive/physical is left unchecked by his parents. Acceptable? Uh, no.

 

My nephew is like this. His parents have made the choice to be inconsistent with their parenting. They don't like the way he behaves, but in reality they do nothing about it. We also have friends whose sons behave like this. Their parents chalk it up to normal boy behavior. Because of this we have pulled away from this family and no longer encourage the friendship (which has made me vary sad).

 

I've got 5 boys. They range from not agressive to would-be-a-pit-bull if left unchecked. They are allowed to wrestle. We do Judo. Every now and then they get in physical fights with each other, but not that often, and when it happens there is a consequence.

 

Your friend is raising a bully. I'd listen to your boys and pull away from this friendship. It's only going to get worse as the boy gets bigger.

[SonshineLearner]

Nayfiesmama - I see what you are doing as trying to train it out of the child. You see the behavior as inappropriate and deal with it. One thing I would change though - if you say "if x happens, we're leaving", then when x happens you need to leave. (I'm horrible at consistency as well. Pot, kettle, black situation!) Either you have to leave when x happens, or make the warning different: "If x happens, you will have to sit with me, not playing, for y minutes." Then you aren't leaving since you drove a long way, but he is getting the consequence you warned him about. :grouphug::grouphug:

 

Yup, I agree...when I said we were leaving....and that was the park thing...we did leave. I wouldn't offer that up, if it was say....a three hour drive to get to my friends....that's what I meant:-) Park day was only 10 minutes from home...

 

Carrie:-)

[Impish]

It sounds normal for a child whose been wholly undisciplined. I say this because I could *totally* see Tazzie behaving similarly if he hadn't been taught that it was completely inappropriate behaviour. He likes to rough house, pushing and shoving, etc. He's 4, and doesn't always 'get' empathy instantly, its like its on a 30 second delay. When he realizes someone is hurt, he's in tears, apologizing, hugging and kissing. He's like that regardless of HOW the person was injured, ie if his sister trips and falls, he's wanting to give comfort, but as a greeting, I could see him opting for a punch in the arm if he hadn't been taught better.

 

Sounds to me as if this child has been given no boundries and not taught appropriate behaviour. Also sounds like this child has some anger issues as a result. I'm a firm believer that children that do not have firm and consistent boundries are terribly afraid and act out angrily and aggressively as a result.

[stripe]

My son recently had another 5 year old boy purposely hurl a large chunk of cement at his head while playing outside. He bled copiously and required 5 stitches; given that it was about 2 inches from his eye, I don't consider this akin to a scratch.

 

Incidentally, this is not the first time that boy has injured another children in the neighborhood -- not by a long shot. The other child's parents/grandparents did not want to admit their child did anything wrong. Initially, we offered only claims that this is normal for kids, and that my son is so physically imposing as to scare the other boy (completely false; my son is smaller than the other boy) and that there is some sort of neighborhood conspiracy to "get" that boy, and there were only very grudging statements about taking responsibility for this, financial or moral, and NO sign that they plan to guide the boy to better behavior.

 

So I am not amused by vicious and violent boys at the moment. I trust no one. I am very concerned by such behavior, especially when the parents allow it.

[joannqn]

Some good friends of ours have the girl I mentioned earlier. This girl is as wild and impulsive as you can imagine. She'd hit, bite, stomp, tantrum, etc... to the extreme. This was their 3rd child (they now have 4) and none of the other kids was that way. It took years to get her to settle enough that she could be around other kids, and she's still the wild child of the group, but acts appropriately most of the time. She just tends to need more handling than average. BUT, they are very resolute about training her how to behave and helping her to understand how to control herself.

 

I really think the difference is in whether or not they're taught to modify their behavior or are allowed to do as they wish. I'd probably look for friendship elsewear if your friend continues down the "aint gonna do nothin about it" road. ;)

 

:iagree:

 

I completely agree. Training in appropriate behavior should have begun years ago so it wouldn't reach this level.

 

If you do see them again, I would never allow my children to be alone with him...ever. I would enforce my rules at my house. If a toy was thrown, I would step in and tell the child that the rule in my house is that toys are not to be thrown. If he did it again, I would take the toy and put it away. Then each time I saw him after that, there would be no warning. The first time something was thrown, I'd remind the child that he already knows that you don't allow toys to be thrown and take the toy away. Anytime he physically hurt my child, I would end the play date immediately with no warnings.

 

Honestly, though, I would honor my kids' request and not see him anymore. I would do this, in part, to show them that it is never ok to put up with someone who hurts you. If you want to try to keep her as a friend, I would try suggesting mom's night out type of activities with just her. If she asked, I would explain that you want to respect her feelings that her son's behavior is "normal" while at the same time respecting your children's feelings to not play with someone that hurts them.

 

I've been there. I was doing a class at my house and one boy was very violent. I would have never thought a 6 year old could be so evil (in this kid it was more severe). My kids never wanted to see him again; they were afraid of him and rightfully so. I tried to teach that you can both honor your commitments and not accept being hurt. I suggested we continue doing the classes to honor our commitment but discontinue any play time before/after class. I promised never to leave them unattended with him. Then another mom canceled the class to avoid the same child, only her children experienced much more severe issues with this child apart from my house (possibly life threatening and sexual abuse). I called off all future classes after I learned about what she experienced. I also quit the co-op his mother ran and avoid any other groups that I see they are active in. My kids have a standing promise that if we ever end up at a field trip/gathering where he is present, that I will not take my eyes off them for a second. I've kept that promise even in supervised activities like YMCA classes. Not only did I watch the entirety of each and every class, I warned the adults in charge ("My kids are not to be paired with or put in a group with that child for any reason.").

[yslek]

I agree with the pps that it sounds like a (lack of) discipline issue. However, some kids don't act like that even when not disciplined, and some kids have a lot of wild/impulsive behavioral issues even when their parents stay on top of them.

 

If this were the case with this boy (no way to know, because mom isn't trying to manage the aggression) I would also wonder about food sensitivities. This wasn't even on my radar before, but ever since we discovered that D had corn sensitivities, I wonder about other children. When she's on corn, she's wild, impulsive, purposefully nasty to her brothers, and just generally awful and uncontrollable. (A big enough dose of corn also leads to bladder control issues.) We were starting to really worry about her when corn sensitivity was suggested as a possibility by some fellow hsing moms. She's not a docile, easy child off of corn, but she's sweet, enregetic, and manageable. I feel terrible for children who are judged as "bad" when they're really experiencing a drug-like reaction to food. :(

 

Just wanted to throw that out there as a possibility. Obviously, though, the parenting needs to be upped a notch first. ;)

[RJH]

I wouldn't call it normal boy behavior at all. I can't stand it when people say "boys will be boys". :mad: I have a boy and a girl. My boy is not like that, and never has been aggressive. My daughter on the other hand, has some major impulse control issues (that we are really working on). She tends to be very rough, and when playing can take things too far. She has given her brother 2 black eyes before. Not on purpose, just playing too rough. I think some children are just more aggressive than others.....BUT that's not an excuse for lazy parenting. If parents are trying to correct the behavior, and not making excuses, I am more understanding.

[Year Round Mom]

Isn't that a weird thing that he smiles when he hurts someone? That he's not angry when he does that? That sounds abnormal to me! :confused:

[Mom-ninja.]

nt

Edited May 29, 2009 by Kleine Hexe

[Danestress]

So I don't really want to go there. But I do think that most children want to have friends and want to have fun with them, so while wrestling and such might be fun, most kids, even if they have clueless mothers who won't control them, are going to take some hints from other kids. It sounds like this kid is a terror and I doubt it's any fun for him or any one else.

 

I would stop spending time with him. I'd just try to do things with the Mom that don't include the children. I'd be gentle with her. He's only 4.5 and it takes some parents a while to get a feel for whether their child is outside the norm on some social things. She might wise up any day. But in the meantime, I would let my children see that I listen to what they say and care about how they feel and that being "nice" doesn't mean subjecting yourself to abuse.

Edited May 29, 2009 by Danestress

[abbeyej]

No, there's something wrong here. It might be that the only problem is the mother's lack of response, or there may also be something off developmentally (but if there is, the mother is only making things worse)...

 

I would protect my own kids from that. I would avoid putting them in a position where they have to be around this child at all -- and if the mom asked me about it, I would be honest about why I was no longer willing to get together with the children. I would try to be gentle, but I wouldn't lie. And I wouldn't subject my kids to that.

[bkpan]

As a mom of 5 boys, I would say normal, BUT in need of some discipline.

 

Kim

[joannqn]

Well, his father plays with them...by wrestling, shoving, and play fighting. They also play video games together. Video games that my boys are not allowed to play. They also allow him to watch movies that I feel are not ok for little boys. However, my friend believes such games and movies are ok.

 

I have two boys, one who is old enough for this kind of play. My husband and son play fight and play video games...but there are limits. Play fighting doesn't hurt the other person. If someone gets hurt, you went to far; you'll get talked to about it (possibly punished depending on how the person got hurt) and the playing stops immediately.

 

I agree. I do think that physical activity is normal for many boys (and girls), but I don't feel that this little boy is given proper boundries. Also, I have stepped in, and he seems to listen to me. So I do do that.

 

I think this is the key here. He listens to you which means he would respond to authority if authority is used.

 

I started this thread because I wanted to make sure *I* wasn't missing something. I feel that this little boy needs stronger limits and boundries. It would help if he wasn't exposed to certain media imo, yet she doesn't share my opinion.

 

I don't necessarily agree media is as big of a problem as some people think it is. We are pretty lenient on our media here. My kids play video games such as Lord of the Rings, Medal of Honor, Simpon's Hit and Run, and Spiderman. We allow PG13 and certain rated R movies. My kids have seen all of the Spiderman movies, Pirates of the Caribbean, Fantastic 4, X-Men, Lord of the Rings, Eragon, Star Wars, etc. All of them have fighting and killing in them. I also require some really violent movies that go along with our history/science like Gladiator. My kids watch CSI.

 

Despite this exposure to media, neither of my kids are even remotely violent. Even my son, with taekwondo training (red belt) doesn't hit, kick, or throw things at people. He knows that there is an appropriate time and place to do these things. There are times when my kids will be rough housing and one will say stop. They are expected to stop, immediately. If I hear stop again, the child who didn't stop is in BIG trouble. I'm extremely serious about honoring another person's no or stop. The media has little influence because the discipline is serious.

 

She wants to homeschool, and here I am thinking that if a kid ever needed preschool to teach appropriate socialization skills he's it. Did I just say that?! I pulled the socialization card! Ugh.

 

I agree. I've run into people that I think should not homeschool simply so other adults have influence on the kids on a regular basis.

[jenL]

As a mom of 2 boys, both very different in personality, I would say aggresssion and boisterousness is normal; however, for this child, it has clearly been allowed to progress too far. As other posters have said, it sounds as if he really needs strict boundaries immediately.

 

I also would be willing to lose my friendship for the safety of my children. I realize that could be extremely hard on you, but we are our children's first role models/teachers. Allowing them to continue to receive abuse from others is showing them it's okay. This could have severe repercussions in the future. I'm sorry you are going through this. It's such a tough situation, and I feel terrible for that little boy who doesn't seem to have any guidance. He's the one who will ultimately suffer the most in the long run.

 

Good luck as you continue to deal with this.