math curriculum needed for new HSing 11 y.o. who's struggling

[ocean_eyes]

My step-son will be finishing 5th grade in PS in 10 days. We have had numerous problems with PS and essentially we do not feel it is the right environment for him.

 

He has done next to nothing in math all year, and he complains constantly that he "hates" math assignments, doesn't understand them, finds them boring, etc. He admits he cannot do recent math assignments because he didn't pay attention earlier in the year (the assignments apparently build off the previous topics).

 

I have seen that he has trouble multiplying double or triple digits, specifically. When he sees a problem such as: 534 x 88, he tries to do it completely in his head and then gets mad if it's incorrect b/c he forgot to carry over a place value or whatever, KWIM? It's like he was never taught to simply re-write the problem vertically and go through the process of solving each place value, like I have it written below. When I suggest he do it the way I learned it (below), he looks at me like I have 3 heads.

 

534

x 88

----

 

 

I was thinking about having him try the Singapore placement/assessment tests, mostly just to see where he's at, but also because I like the look of the curriculum.

 

Do you think Singapore would be a good starting point for him? If not, what would you suggest? Thanks! :)

[Storm Bay]

I like Singapore Math, and since your ds's problems seem to stem from the ps environment and not listening earlier in the year, SM could be a great fit if you like it and are comfortable with its style. If you do go with this, I highly recommend getting the Home Instructor's Guide (HiG) and not going any higher in those books than he places. Apparently the HiG for the standard editions have been rewritten and are better than the HiG for the US Edition, although the student books are on par. One of the great parts of this program is the bar diagram method, and you see how to use those in the HiG. They will present those types of problems written both ways, but you should always feel free to rewrite them vertically if they're horizontal.

 

I have one dc who tries to do too much in her head; I've been working with her to show her work.

 

Many people whose children have struggled with math have gone to things other than SM, and you may hear from them as well. There is no one program that fits everybody, but it is heuristically one of the better programs in my personal opinion. This opinion is, in part, due to the fact that it appeals to me. But also, in part, due to the word problems, which I think are better than in many programs. That said, over the first few years of our homeschooling adventure, we moved to using two math programs at a time as I like combining the best. Math is nothing if not opinionated and sometime hotly debated ;). There is no one program that will work for everyone, but I think that one of the most important factors is that you as the teacher have to like it and feel comfortable with it. The other is your ds's learning style.

[Mommyfaithe]

CLE worked beautifully for my math -phobic dd...I am going to use it with my 2 ds's now from the beginning.

 

Faithe

[Carol in Cal.]

Make sure you try the Saxon one among the rest.

 

At that age, he might have a pencil allergy and resist writing things down because of that. Also he might hate to show his work for the same reason.

 

DD hates math, and at 12 she is finally succombing to my repeated insistance on showing work, at least most of the time. When I was in 5th grade my teacher was always on me to show my work, but I got good grades so there was not much he could do about it. Still, in retrospect, I should have. It would have been a good habit to develop.

 

Maybe let your son do work on a white board--at that age, for some reason, DD was more amenable to that than to writing things on paper.

 

I have heard great things about Singapore, but it was one of two programs that I looked at that I just could not figure out what they were getting at, and I knew that I would not teach it effectively if I couldn't get my arms around it. (The other one that was like that was a constructivist program--I forget which one.)

 

We used Harcourt California math for 3 miserable, wasted years, and then went back to Saxon. Saxon is not very sophisticated, but it does get the job done; and the continuous review has been an outstandingly good fit for my DD (although I could never have learned that way.) I do use the DIVE CD's now, didn't at first, but I also do a fair amount of sitting with DD to redo wrong problems or to go over things that she finds difficult. Some kids you can just give the DIVE to and forget it, but she struggles with and hates math, so I need to be a little more hands on than that with her. And I think that that is reasonable since she is so young. After all, I didn't learn straight from books alone when I was that age.

 

Look at MUS if you think you want a mastery program instead of a spiral one. It is very concrete, and really helpful to kids who need a multi sensory approach.

[ocean_eyes]

Thanks so much for your replies, ladies. The white board is a great suggestion! He does hate writing and always has. I never thought about that impacting his ability to show his work in math.

 

I printed and gave him the 5A and 5B Singapore placement tests and there were several sections he couldn't do at all. Same with the 4B. He is now working on 3B and says he doesn't know how to convert liters to milliliters. Also, he can't subtract 3 or 4 digit numbers, "borrowing" from the previous place value has absolutely no meaning to him. I don't understand how he could get to 5th grade and not be able to subtract multi-digit numbers?

 

I will definitely look into the other programs suggested. I'm terribly math-phobic myself (especially concerning geometry and other types of "visual" math), and I am very concerned about finding a curriculum that suits both him as the student and me as the "teacher".

[Brindee]

Is he hands-on? I agree that Math-U-See (MUS) may work for him to get those concepts that he needs to learn or re-learn down before moving on!

 

There's Teaching Textbooks Math as well. It has cd's and if he struggled with something he could easily slow down and watch the dvd's again to get it! It's expensive, but it's really helped a lot of kids!

[Lovedtodeath]

You might look at the Key to... series since his ability seems to be hit and miss.

[Gretchen in NJ]

I like Rod and Staff. I have been very happy with it. Each lesson has a new concept and plenty of review of previously taught concepts.

[Storm Bay]

Is he hands-on? I agree that Math-U-See (MUS) may work for him to get those concepts that he needs to learn or re-learn down before moving on!

!

 

 

 

MUS is what we've combined with Singapore Math for the past few years, and I like the combination. We've recently added something else with my ds, and my middle dd has finished SM 6 now.

 

Both MUS and SM are visual, but in different ways. You can use hands on manipulatives with SM, and are supposed to in the earlier grades.

[Spy Car]

If you do go with this, I highly recommend getting the Home Instructor's Guide (HiG) and not going any higher in those books than he places. Apparently the HiG for the standard editions have been rewritten and are better than the HiG for the US Edition, although the student books are on par.

 

The one snag is the HiGs have only been released through 3B. With 4A due out soon. Some parents using SE at 4 and up have been using the teacher manuals, which I've read good reposts on (but never seen) and they are more costly than HiGs.

 

Bill

[Mandamom]

Thanks so much for your replies, ladies. The white board is a great suggestion! He does hate writing and always has. I never thought about that impacting his ability to show his work in math.

 

I printed and gave him the 5A and 5B Singapore placement tests and there were several sections he couldn't do at all. Same with the 4B. He is now working on 3B and says he doesn't know how to convert liters to milliliters. Also, he can't subtract 3 or 4 digit numbers, "borrowing" from the previous place value has absolutely no meaning to him. I don't understand how he could get to 5th grade and not be able to subtract multi-digit numbers?

 

I will definitely look into the other programs suggested. I'm terribly math-phobic myself (especially concerning geometry and other types of "visual" math), and I am very concerned about finding a curriculum that suits both him as the student and me as the "teacher".

 

I am currently tutoring several children who are in similar (in some instances much worse) positions than your 11 year old. I was teaching an end of year 5th grader tonight how to subtract with borrowing.

 

My suggestion is not to get hung up on grade levels and once you figure out where he is you just start with wherever he is (whether that's 2nd grade or 5th grade depending on your publisher) and go from there. I think you'll be surprised at how quickly you can move him through the concepts that he's missing and to give him more confidence. As a matter of fact going back to something that was even slightly easy for him may give him more confidence as he begins to have successes in a subject that was previously too hard.

 

When I pulled my dss out to homeschool the first thing I did was have him take several online placement tests to get a feel for each program but also to see where he was in that particular program. CLE, Saxon and Singapore's tests are all online. I'm pretty sure there are a few others out there but those are the ones that I'm familiar with.

 

Good luck.

[Storm Bay]

The one snag is the HiGs have only been released through 3B. With 4A due out soon. Some parents using SE at 4 and up have been using the teacher manuals, which I've read good reposts on (but never seen) and they are more costly than HiGs.

 

Bill

 

 

A worse snag is that The Essential Parents' Guide to Primary Maths by Dr. Fong Ho Kheong went out of print. The subtitle is Strategies for solving challenging Maths Problems.

[Spy Car]

A worse snag is that The Essential Parents' Guide to Primary Maths by Dr. Fong Ho Kheong went out of print. The subtitle is Strategies for solving challenging Maths Problems.

 

I don't know (and certainly don't own) this book. Do I need to "panic"? :D

 

I am anticipating the new Singapore Math Model book arriving any day now. I'm excited to read this one.

 

Bill (buried in a math back-log)

Edited May 29, 2009 by Spy Car
Not enough coffee

[Melissa in CA]

Well, since no one has mentioned it yet, I will suggest BJU's Math (Bob Jones University Press). It really is excellent, and your ds could very well start in the book at his grade level due to BJU repeating concepts each year to get them cemented in place. I don't believe you will find that in Singapore and the chances are that he will test quite low in their program (Singapore's) due to their very different scope and sequence. I would definitely test him though to see...I could very well be wrong. Also, my experience with Singapore is that yes, they have excellent word problems, but you can easily add that in to any math program you choose by supplementing with their Challenging Word Problems books. I would start at around Level 4.

 

Anyhow, I am NOT at all trying to steer you away from Singapore! I just personally think it's a hard program to jump in to at that age. I also think Singapore is a difficult program to teach at the higher levels and would not recommend it to anyone who is, themselves, not strong in math. It's an excellent program, but not the only one, KWIM? I really love it as a supplement to our more traditional BJU math. My son does a lesson of BJU each day, alongside a page of Singapore's Challenging Word Problems. It's a win-win for us.

 

Also, BJU has wonderful teacher's manuals, and their math curriculum all the way through high school is top notch. I personally like a program I can stick with and know it will be there for me throughout the high school years. I think I would even choose Saxon over Singapore because of this, and I very much dislike Saxon's incremental style. :tongue_smilie:

 

All my personal opinion of course! Hope you find what works for you and yours. :D

[Lovedtodeath]

Well, since no one has mentioned it yet, I will suggest BJU's Math (Bob Jones University Press). It really is excellent, and your ds could very well start in the book at his grade level due to BJU repeating concepts each year to get them cemented in place.

 

Also, BJU has wonderful teacher's manuals, and their math curriculum all the way through high school is top notch. I personally like a program I can stick with and know it will be there for me throughout the high school years.

Good thinking Melissa! I wanted to mention that when I switched from MUS and Horizons to Abeka, I called them and they had me talk to two different "education consultants" for placement and help with speeding it up, since we were jumping in to the middle of 1st grade. I am sure that BJU would likewise be helpful in this area if you gave them a call.

[ocean_eyes]

My son does a lesson of BJU each day, alongside a page of Singapore's Challenging Word Problems. It's a win-win for us.

 

That's a great idea, thank you! :) Also, you have a good point about me trying to teach upper level math if the curriculum isn't teacher-friendly. I think I have some type of math dyslexia (if there is such a thing). Math is SO hard for me, truly. :(

 

I'm not dead-set on Singapore (or anything) yet so I really appreciate all the suggestions! Haven't heard of BJU yet, so will definitely check into that.

 

I was looking on the Rainbow Resource Center and see they have their Saxon materials on sale. 6/5 and 5/4 sets are something like $50. I have seen them at Barnes and Noble for $118 so DH thinks we should go with Saxon, mostly b/c he's cheap, lol. I printed the middle years assessment last night and plan to have DSS go through it tonight.

 

I really just want to get something he's comfortable with and that won't give me a headache.

[Melissa in CA]

That's a great idea, thank you! :) Also, you have a good point about me trying to teach upper level math if the curriculum isn't teacher-friendly. I think I have some type of math dyslexia (if there is such a thing). Math is SO hard for me, truly. :(

 

I'm not dead-set on Singapore (or anything) yet so I really appreciate all the suggestions! Haven't heard of BJU yet, so will definitely check into that.

 

I was looking on the Rainbow Resource Center and see they have their Saxon materials on sale. 6/5 and 5/4 sets are something like $50. I have seen them at Barnes and Noble for $118 so DH thinks we should go with Saxon, mostly b/c he's cheap, lol. I printed the middle years assessment last night and plan to have DSS go through it tonight.

 

I really just want to get something he's comfortable with and that won't give me a headache.

 

Here is a sample of BJU's Math 6 student Text (scroll to bottom of page): http://www.bjupress.com/product/222109?path=3501&samplePage=

 

CLE also is inexpensive and has great samples online.

 

If you decide to go with Saxon, I would look into the DIVE Cd-Roms that go with each level. It may truly be helpful to your son. You can find good samples of Saxon on Christianbook.com

 

Definitely, definitely have him do some Saxon lessons first before purchasing if you can. My older boys disliked Saxon with a passion because of it's incremental approach. Teaching a concept and then only giving a couple problems to work on said concept and tons and tons of review on previous concepts. It drove them batty always having to switch gears, and to this day my oldest hates, hates, hates math due to my forcing Saxon on him for years (I was under the impression that it was the best math and therefore I had to use it. Big mistake. :tongue_smilie:). So, be sure it is the best approach for your ds. Many children thrive on it, and many don't. I would worry about that more than cost. Besides, you can find many math curricula used, I rarely buy my BJU math new. ;)

[Storm Bay]

I don't know (and certainly don't own) this book. Do I need to "panic"? :D

 

I am anticipating the new Singapore Math Model book arriving any day now. I'm excited to read this one.

 

Bill (buried in a math back-log)

 

 

Of course. Without this one book, you ought to panic, give up and put your dc into ps ;). It's a great book, but with all you do, you're fine. Let us know about this SM Model book; it might have some of the same things in it. The model approach is what one part of the book I mentioned is about.

[freeindeed]

We use and love Saxon, and I've also heard good things about CLE math.

[Spy Car]

Of course. Without this one book, you ought to panic, give up and put your dc into ps ;). It's a great book, but with all you do, you're fine. Let us know about this SM Model book; it might have some of the same things in it. The model approach is what one part of the book I mentioned is about.

 

It came tonight. I just opened it. Thinner than I expected. I'm blasted tired. And excited to read it. Sleep? Who needs it? :D

 

Bill

[Storm Bay]

It came tonight. I just opened it. Thinner than I expected. I'm blasted tired. And excited to read it. Sleep? Who needs it? :D

 

Bill

 

 

So, how is it? Or are you sleeping the day away after staying up all night reading?

[Spy Car]

So, how is it? Or are you sleeping the day away after staying up all night reading?

 

To be honest, I started reading it late last night and passed out. Not a commentary on the book, I've just been burning it at both ends.

 

All day today I've been in a scoring secession. Tonight I hope to unwind and have a read. I'll let you know.

 

Bill

[ElizabethB]

I really like how Singapore explains things. My daughter is learning so much more since we switched to it. It's also easy to work through to catch up--it's organized by topic, so if you come to one he knows well, you can just do a bit to make sure he's gotten it and move on to the next topic. For levels he's working through to catch up, you could just buy the textbook.

 

You should read Liping Ma's "Knowing and Teaching Elementary Math." You should be able to find in through your library, most of them have a copy.

 

While it is mostly an idea book, it does give explicit strategies for different ways of explaining how to do 3 digit multiplication and how to address the "whys" behind it.