(Another s/o of Colleen's math thread) Repeat Algebra: switch to TT or stay with BJU?

[ereks mom]

I would love to hear from you if you've had a student who struggled with BJU and you made a choice between TT & BJU -- whether you switched to TT or decided to stay with BJU.

 

If you switched to TT, what was your experience with TT after having used BJU?

 

If you chose to stay with BJU and repeat a level, was your student successful? Do you believe that the maturity factor made a difference?

 

And how did your dc do on the math portion of the ACT or SAT?

 

Here's my story...

 

EK finished BJU PreAlgebra & started BJU Algebra 1 this past school year (8th grade). I had planned to get through chapter 10 (of 14) in Algebra 1 and complete it next year (9th grade). After that, I planned to move to TT for Geometry, Algebra 2 & PreCalculus.

 

EK had no trouble with the first few chapters of BJU Algebra 1, probably because those chapters are mostly review of PreAlgebra concepts. Her test grades ranged from 84-100 for chapters 1-5, but after the first few chapters, we started having to move s-l-o-w-l-y because she was struggling. BJU Algebra began to feel pretty tedious. Then, in spite of taking it slowly, EK bombed the chapter 6 test. :(

 

After hearing success stories about TT, especially here on the WTM boards, I began to consider ditching BJU Algebra 1 and switching to TT. I understood that TT Algebra 1 covers only about 2/3 of what BJU Algebra 1 covers, so I figured we had probably already done most of what's in TT Algebra 1 anyway. Thus I considered not even bothering to finish BJU Algebra 1, but just going on to TT Geometry. I had quite a dilemma: I was afraid there would be some gaps if we just went on to TT Geometry, but I didn't want to do TT Algebra 1 because I figured that since we'd been using BJU, we'd already be beyond the scope of the "lighter" TT. So I decided that it would be best to push on through the rest of BJU Algebra 1 and then go on to TT for Geometry & beyond, as had been my original plan.

 

So, using one of the Keys to Algebra booklets, I retaught the concepts from the BJU chapter EK didn't "get" at first (ch. 6), and she did great on her re-test. I thought she was back on track, so we moved on to the next chapter (ch. 7), but she began struggling again (lots of word problems). I thought, "Oh, no! Here we go again!" But since it was the end of the school year, and we were both stressed out about the whole thing, we just stopped.

 

Of course, now I question my decision to stick with BJU. I believe, however, that I was right in not going on to TT Geometry. Instead, I believe that EK needs to just start over with Algebra 1, because it seems obvious to me that either there's something foundational that she didn't "get" OR she just needed to mature a little before starting Algebra.

 

So.... now I have to decide:

 

1) Switch to TT and start at the beginning with Algebra 1? I've bought a set, and we could at least give it a trial run. If it doesn't work, I could easily sell it. It seems to be so much more "gentle" than BJU. TT definitely moves more slowly, and yes, it IS less rigorous, but if EK's not succeeding with a rigorous program, maybe she needs something less so??? I just can't see having to spend a month on each topic/chapter if there's something else that will work without all that, even if it's not rigorous.

 

2) Start over with BJU Algebra 1? I've bought support materials to go along with the BJU Algebra 1 text & TE we already have: a Student Activities workbook to use for extra practice and review, and quizzes so I can check progress thoughout a chapter rather than only at the end. I hate to quit, especially since we've used BJU math exclusively from the beginning of our homeschooling journey (1996), and it has worked GREAT for us up until now.

 

A complication: EK is discouraged at the thought of having to start over. Her words were, "I failed". She is one of those kids who can't stand to make bad grades. It's been awful for her to be so unsuccessful with math. Her feeling successful is more important to me than the rigor of the program, especially since she is highly unlikely to go into a math/science field. She will likely become a writer or a photographer/commercial artist.

 

So now you've heard it -- and if you've read this far, thank you! :)

 

Now tell me -- WWYD?

Edited May 27, 2009 by ereks mom

[creekland]

Since you already have it, I'd let her try TT and see what she thinks. If parts are too easy, skip up a few chapters. I don't think it's lack of ability, but I could easily understand the lack of physical brain maturity (for upper level math) at this point.

 

I would not press on beyond Alg 1 until it is understood. It is the foundation for all other math... even Geometry needs it.

[Quiver0f10]

Could you start the TT Alg 1 now and work on it over the summer, possibly doing two lessons a day in order to finish in the fall and then start the geometry?

[ereks mom]

You know, I actually thought of that, but EK is so burned out on math that I don't know if I should.

[Susan C.]

We experienced math burnout several times with my son. Consider putting it away, and starting over next year with the curriculum you like. We liked BJUP Algebra 1 with my daughter this year, but used the DVDs. Don't know how it would have been w/o them. I am one of the few that doesn't like TT because it is like Saxon with constant review. Was a disaster for precalc..... trying to learn hard trig, while reviewing functions and logs was more than my son could take!

[ereks mom]

I like BJU because it uses a mastery approach instead of a spiral/incremental approach. That was the thing about Saxon that drove us nutty when we tried it in 1st grade with ER. Then we switched to BJU and we loved it. I briefly tried ABeka Arithmetic when EK was in K or 1st (can't remember) -- I bought it for extra practice in addition to our BJU book, but the layout was maddening, having to flip from, say page 12 to page 27 to page 51 to find problems of the same type. The ABeka arithmetic book went on the shelf and I think it's still there! :D But as we get into higher math, my beloved BJU doesn't seem to be doing it for EK. By the time we get to the end of a chapter, she can't seem to remember what we did at the beginning of the chapter, even when I have her do the cumulative review each day. So my feeling is that maybe the spiral review in TT will work for EK although it was maddening for ER. But every kid is different -- and that's why we homeschool! ;)

[Melissa in CA]

I have no real advice except to say that some children just are not ready to do Algebra in 8th grade...it doesn't matter what curriculum you try. And wouldn't it be better for her to use a more advanced curriculum when she is mentally ready, than a less rigorous one? It would be different if she were in 9th or 10th grade and not able to complete BJU's Alg 1, but she was in 8th grade. :confused: No way, no how could my math-average son do BJU's Alg 1 in 8th grade. No way. Which is why we will be using BJU's Math 7 for 7th and Pre-Alg for 8th. Since BJU's Alg is more thorough and more rigorous than the average, I have no problems whatsoever with him beginning Alg 1 in 9th grade. :001_smile:

 

Anyhow, I really don't know what I would do in your situation. But from my standpoint, I think what I would do is start over in BJU's Alg 1, and use TT as a supplement (since you have it). I think your idea of having her do part of the Alg 1 in 8th and the other half in 9th was a good one, but perhaps she started bombing about mid-way because she just needed more time to mature. It's a hard call to make. :tongue_smilie:

[Jann in TX]

some students just need a real teacher/tutor to sit down with them and help them sort through THEIR logic (even if it is not quite developed yet). A video program cannot tell them the types of errors they made--and how to keep from repeating them! A video program or text book can't show them an alternate way of working a problem that might make more sense.

 

If ER did fine for the first 5 chapters then it is most likely a SMALL concept that she did not fully understand that has snowballed on her.

 

I recommend stopping Algebra 1 for now--later this summer do a quick 'review' of chapters 1-5 (pull problems from a chapter review or test) then try again with chapter 6...

 

You could also check to see if the concepts in CH 6 of BJU are taught in the TT text you have... even if it is more introductory--just watching problems worked a different way can help cement concepts.

 

TT's Algebra 1 program is not that 'behind' other texts. Personally I think they rush a few concepts (factoring polynomials and related word problems) but it is still OK--TT really slows down in their Algebra 2... Basically, you should be able to match up a good part of the BJU text. Work problems from the BJU text--watching TT's lessons if more support is needed.

[ereks mom]

some students just need a real teacher/tutor to sit down with them and help them sort through THEIR logic (even if it is not quite developed yet).

 

Well, I do work with her every day. I teach the lesson from the TE and we do several problems together. She also does a few problems on her own. I guess it could be beneficial for her to work with someone else maybe once a week, though.

 

If ER did fine for the first 5 chapters then it is most likely a SMALL concept that she did not fully understand that has snowballed on her.

 

I recommend stopping Algebra 1 for now--later this summer do a quick 'review' of chapters 1-5 (pull problems from a chapter review or test) then try again with chapter 6...

 

...Work problems from the BJU text--watching TT's lessons if more support is needed.

 

Yes, we've stopped for the summer. She was frustrated and so was I, so we decided it would be best to set it aside for now. Your recommendation to review a little later on and then continue with BJU, using TT as a supplement is something I've been considering.

 

Thanks, Jann. I appreciate your input.

[Susan C.]

I looked at BJUP Algebra 1 and TT Algebra 1 side by side. TT Algebra 1 level was between BJUP PreAlgebra and BJUP Algebra 1. I was considering using TT Algebra 1 for my daughter in 8th grade after BJUP 7th grade math because the PreAlgebra seemed too easy. A friend told me that the reason math takes a pause between 7th and 8th grade is because the kids are changing a lot developmentally and need a little pause with the math, I listened to her, did the BJUP PreAlgebra, then my daughter was very ready for the BJUP Algebra 1. Don't ever rush the math, even the head of math at a prep school here told me to never do math above level, better too easy rather than too hard.

[ereks mom]

...some things to consider. Thank you again!

[momee]

We're in exactly the same boat only I switched from TT to Chalkdust back to TT again.

 

Imagine my ds's frustration!

 

We're tutoring with Jann over the summer. She's inexpensive and even though he's not thrilled with the thought of doing math over the summer, he knows it's his only option.

 

Jann found a weak spot right away. I would NEVER have been able to help!

Tutors should be in abundant supply with school out if you wanted to slowly work on what you've done to this point.

 

I feel your pain and have no suggestions. I've read and reread this is a stumbling point for many! kids though.

 

I have

[Halftime Hope]

but I just didn't find that the explanations in BJU's math texts are very good when compared with, say, Lial's or the Heath (Chalkdust) textbooks.

 

Precalc was particularly bad.

[1shortmomto4]

My ds used TT Algebra last year and made it through the first 3 or 4 chapters and then things rapidly accelerated downward (he was in 8th). We stopped the book and I went with something else to review all the basics of math (math was his strong subject and TT PreAlgebra was a breeze). This year for 9th we went with BJU Algebra and he has done wonderfully but I will say that we had a little glitch in the chapters about graphing inequalities but we worked side-by-side, I found a few helpful vidoes on line to help remember the skills, and he then picked back up speed and has done wonderfully. I'm not sure that he would have done as well if he had attempted this work in 8th. My dd (7th this year) has been working through BJU PreAlgebra and we are at the end of the book where the algebra-type work is really presented and I've had to hold her hand each day and walk through each problem. My intentions were for her to continue with BJU Algebra next year but I do think it will be best to just work on basic skills (I'll find another pre-algrebra option) before we head on into the world of Algebra. She has done beautifully well up until now so I kow she is strong in her skills but the frustration level is not something I necessarily want to bring into the math at this point because I don't find it productive - she'll get there in her time. I think that Algebra (the non-watered down kind) needs to be done in their own time and not to worry about the current trends of Algebra in 8th and then all the other advanced maths in high school. Colleges are finding a lot of kids are not doing well in college math because they didn't retain anything and are having to spend that first year redoing basic math - better now when the cost is lower :-)