What is your understanding while your parents are taking care of your children?

[SonshineLearner]

Hey There,

 

I'm curious what your parents/inlaws do with your children? My parents always were taking care of my daughter when I was single...picking her up from daycare and such...Although I was her mother and they weren't her "parents". They did have a lot of influence as they helped me, since I had a salaried job.

Fast forward to my son, who is now almost 6. My mom watched him while I took my daughter to ballet and other such errands. She is the kind of doting g-ma who takes care of kids by playing with them...baking cookies...etc.

She was going to take him from church one Sunday about a month ago, and because seating arrangements weren't as he wanted...he ended up bolting from the van and running back to us. She was calling him and he wouldn't come back to her...He was angry.

So, she said that when she kept him, if he didn't obey her...that she would spank him. She had already told him that in her whole life...she had never been defied like this before. No child had ever run away with her calling them...(on and on...she was ticked)

I asked her what kind of disobedience she'd spank him for...and basically it was anything. Now, if that's how people think...that's fine...but we've only been spanking for particular things...not just anything. Maybe that's why he doesn't listen "as he should" and maybe since we're the parents...doing the best that we can....we should get to raise our son...

SO, I can leave him....if I can pick him up right away if he doesn't obey. Basically that is very artificial, as I don't need to drop him off and stay at home.

If you don't spank very much, would you still be ok with your parents spanking your child? I mean, the funny thing is...if he was with a friend...and she really thought a "spank" would work..I'd be ok with it....(Like wouldn't hold hand in the parking lot) But not because I'm not doing my job like they felt I should.

I'm just kinda sad right now, thinking about what kind of relationship they can have...if they're together on Sundays at church...

I wanna move to another part of the planet... I'm sure we'd have a great email relationship.

[Renee in NC]

I expect that my parents would discipline my dc as they see fit. If I didn't trust them to do that, then I wouldn't leave them.

[Pamela H in Texas]

My parents believed in spanking but never would dream of striking someone else's child, including mine. And had anyone hit one of my kids in the name of discipline or otherwise, they would have a limited relationship (when I was available).

 

I'm just NOT okay with other people spanking. If parents choose to spank their own children for their own reasons, that is fine, but other people just don't have the SAME relationship and reasoning in order for it to be appropriate.

 

BTW, spanking or not has NOTHING to do with whether a child is obedient or not. Some are horribly disobedient even if spanked pretty regularly and some are wonderfully obedient regardless of punishment (or even NON-punitive) measures chosen. There are actually MUCH more important aspects to discipline than spanking or not spanking (and people who think otherwise are missing out as are their children....and they probably aren't the people you want spending a great deal of time with your children).

 

ANYONE you allow your children with should be able to spend a few hours with a kid, get them to mind decently, and be able to not spank (or even punish). You are NOT unreasonable to ask this of your parents and inlaws.

 

ETA: Another consideration is that a child should be able to BEHAVE appropriately when in the care of someone else. My children knew that *I* would deal with any situation that happened when I returned. My kids upheld OUR standards when with grandma, friends, etc.

Edited May 26, 2009 by 2J5M9K

[Pamela H in Texas]

double post

[Ann@thebeach]

I know hindsight is 20/20 but any discipline or expectations for these types of things should have been discussed up front so there were no surprises.

 

So I guess before they watch them anymore you should sit down and lay out your expectations for what they can and cannot spank for or be very firm about it-don't "ask" them but "tell" them. If they do not think they can follow your rules for spanking or other expectations then you need to find alternative child care I guess.

 

It also sounds like your 6 yr old is old enough to sit down with you and talk about the rules too and what he should expect with his grandparents.

 

My DH had had the unfortunate experience of telling his dad (my FIL) that if he did a certain discipline behavior again that my children would never stay with them again. (he did this behavior to my niece, not my child, and DH had to intervene) My FIL was frustrated but he agreed.

[SonshineLearner]

Pamela:-)

Thanks:-) I realize that my consistency is most of the problem. I was actually a very consistent nanny. I found that talking with the children and some limited amount of time-outs worked.... With my own children, over the course of 15 hours...I just don't have the same energy. No excuse...just different.

Carrie:-)

[SheWillFly]

I would be furious. We do not spank. My mom and dad also do not spank. My in-laws were spankers and have spanked and washed a mouth out with soap on my oldest when she was under 4 years old. I didn't know until about 2 years after the event. I was very angry even if at the time I wasn't firmly set against spanking. She is my child and no one has permission to strike her period end of story. My husband firmly stated to both my mil and fil that we do not spank and anyone else spanking our children will equal the last time we leave them unsupervised in that person's care. My sil spanked my oldest once for having a potty accident at 3 years old. That was the last time I left my daughter with her. I grew up in a non-punitive family so it never once crossed my mind that someone else would think it okay to spank a child who did not belong to them.

[cathmom]

I'm trying to reconcile the idea of a "doting granny" who spanks.

 

I would not be OK with anyone else spanking my child, especially without my knowledge.

 

It sounds to me like your parents had more of a "parent" role than a "grandparent" role with your dd and now that is extending to your ds, even though the situation is different.

 

When I leave my younger dc with somebody else, yes, they may discipline as they see fit, but with other methods that do not include spanking.

[teamturner]

I am of the opinion that only parents should spank. My dh doesn't agree but thankfully we haven't really had any problems specifically involving this in regards to the grandparents. My father threatened to spank my boys once when they wouldn't settle down and go to sleep while he was taking care of them. But the threat of Papa spanking them was all it took for them to settle down. He wasn't really going to do it though. :tongue_smilie:

 

I don't think it's unreasonable for you to expect your mother to respect your authority over your own dc. There are other ways a grandparent or other caregiver can discipline. I don't think anyone wants a babysitter or caregiver at church or the gym to be spanking their dc. Grandparents should not try to take the role of parent. I think that diminishes the grandparent/grandchild relationship. The parents are supposed to be the meanie. :D Maybe you can explain this to your mother and it might make her understand that she's supposed to spoil the gk a little bit not be the heavy. That's not to say the gk should get away with acting properly.

[eternalknot]

If I understand correctly -

 

you spank at your house and feel it can be appropriate for specific behaviors. So your issue isn't that your mom will spank ... but that she will spank for anything (i.e., that it will be her first line of defense in disciplining your son).

 

If that were the case, I'd probably (if somewhat reluctantly) let it go.

 

I have always co-parented with my parents; they have always been involved in the day-to-day with my kids. I rely heavily on my parents for support and assistance with the kids. We lived with them for the first five years of my oldest's life, as well. So I have a good understanding of where you are coming from.

 

My parents occasionally are a bit more harsh or lenient than I might be in a given situation. I do pause and reflect, sometimes feel sad or frustrated, but then I make myself get over it. Just like I couldn't control a spouse to parent my way, I can't micro-manage my parents either. So long as I feel the kids are SAFE in their care, I have to accept that they will have different ways of handling situations. My kids aren't any worse off for it, in fact they're learning an important fact of life: rules and expectations differ from person to person, home to home. So long as all rules and expectations are disclosed ahead of time (and my kids know what to expect) then I defer to my parents, how they wish to handle disciplinary needs that arise when the kids are under their care.

 

Was your mom still feeling the frustration and anger from the incident, when she said what she did?

[eternalknot]

Maybe a heart-to-heart is warranted. Are your parents still operating under the Old Rules (they were more parents than grandparents), whereas you are in a different place now and are ready for some New Rules (them being more grandparents than they are parental figures)? I'd imagine it will be one of those changes that requires time and patience on all ends, but maybe it just also needs to be said out loud.

 

I'm trying to think about how it might play out in my own family. There would definitely need to be a conversation about (a) thankfulness at their deep involvement in my childrens' lives, plus (b) that I'm more prepared to be the primary parental unit from here onwards, and © I hereby invite them to 'retire' into garden variety grandparenthood. That said, I'd still expect them to discipline as they see fit - whether they were acting as co-parents or as grandparents. I think it is important that children learn to obey and respect the rules of different people and places - not just me and mine. Of course, not all families are comfortable with or desire this so YMMV.

[SonshineLearner]

Was your mom still feeling the frustration and anger from the incident, when she said what she did?

 

Yes, it was the next day, but she was just still furious at him. She said that it was a "mature defiance" which...rememember ...he is almost 6 (in July) so "mature" is relative.

 

We spank for hurting someone....or doing something that is dangerous. I use to spank for more, but found that ...I didn't/don't...think it was the best thing for him. He's very active...and very kind hearted...and when I spanked him for not listening...it was all the time. I just explain things now, and do things like take away computer time...or other things that he cares about.

 

So, it's not like it's something that she couldn't just tell me...but it's more like she doesn't know if he'd be properly punished....so she'll take care of it...because that's how it was when she was little. Who ever took care of the child...punished the child.

 

To be honest, she loves him and he loves her...I think it's more of a problem because I don't feel like it's respectful to decide your way is better than the parent. Of course, I'm sure that she feels like if I trust her...I should trust how she disciplines him. (including spanking)

 

:confused:

[WagsWife]

ETA: Another consideration is that a child should be able to BEHAVE appropriately when in the care of someone else. My children knew that *I* would deal with any situation that happened when I returned. My kids upheld OUR standards when with grandma, friends, etc.

 

:iagree: We DO spank, however I would have serious issues with anyone else spanking my child...grandparent or not. That being said...my kids know that if they misbehave/disobey while in the care of someone else, when they get home they will have to deal with me...and trust me, they don't want that!

[jujsky]

We expect anyone watching our kids -- including our parents -- to discipline the way we would. We usually don't spank (other than the very occasional single whack on the fanny) but we use the naughty-corner. They get a minute for each year of their age, and if they leave the corner, the timer is restarted. Sometimes the grandparents will take toys or treats away, and that's fine too. I would be extremely upset if someone hit one of my kids for any reason. My MIL did it to my son once in my presence as did a male friend of ours, and we let them know in no uncertain terms that was NOT okay or acceptable. It never happened again.

[Impish]

We spank occasionally, and I will say that bolting out of a building and into a parking lot would have warranted a spanking, simply because its dangerous...and at 6 I would expect a child to know better. So on that note, I do agree with your mother.

 

However, that being said, NOBODY spanks our children but us. If they are left in the care of anyone, then timeouts are the discipline to be used, period.

 

If you don't trust your mother to respect your parenting and your rules, then I would not leave your children alone with her. She needs to understand that she is a grandparent, not a co-parent.

[Liza Q]

When I leave my younger dc with somebody else, yes, they may discipline as they see fit, but with other methods that do not include spanking.

 

ITA. And I would stop leaving my child with Grandma if she would not respect my wishes. We would still visit and spend time with her, but I would look elsewhere for childcare. When I have left my children with my parents over the years I have known that they would probably eat too much junk and watch too much TV, but these were things I was willing to be flexible on as sometimes I just really needed to leave my kids for a visit to a lawyer or to have another baby! My Mom has always been able to keep my kids in line so spanking was never even thought of!

 

Maybe...if you made it clear that your son WAS disciplined for this (in whatever way you thought appropriate) and he apologized to Grandma for his defiance, your Mom would feel more comfortable about watching him in the future? I absolutely HATE watching children who will not obey as I worry that they will run into the street or something.

[Liza Q]

We spank occasionally, and I will say that bolting out of a building and into a parking lot would have warranted a spanking, simply because its dangerous...and at 6 I would expect a child to know better. So on that note, I do agree with your mother.

 

 

I do agree with this as well.

 

I hope that you can work this out with your Mom!

[buddhabelly]

I can't have my mother take care of my ds because she doesn't discipline at all. In fact, when I correct him about something (or remind him to say thank you, or whatever) she says RIGHT IN FRONT OF HIM, "Oh, he is fine. He is doing nothing wrong." Or, "He did say thank you." Well, I am right there and he took the gift and ran, he did not say thank you.

 

I was raised with no discipline, and it is not a gift.

 

But I do emphathize with you and if I were you, I would no longer ask (or allow) them to watch your dc. They need consistent "parenting" that is not contradictory. JMHO. Best wishes!

 

Julie

[Melinda in VT]

I might be projecting too much, but it sounds to me like your mother doesn't want to be responsible for a child she can't control, and since spanking is her way of gaining control and you won't let her spank . . . she doesn't feel confident that she can control your son. (Is there any chance she was scared by having him run away from her in the parking lot?)

 

I actually think that in that situation, her request that you come pick him up right away if he disobeys is a good compromise. Maybe after a time or two of the visit being cut short, he will learn to obey her and your mom will feel more comfortable.

 

(I'm not suggesting, btw, that you let your mom spank. But if she is going to be responsible for him, she does need to feel that he will obey her.)

[Ellie]

I expect that my parents would discipline my dc as they see fit. If I didn't trust them to do that, then I wouldn't leave them.

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[eternalknot]

 

So, it's not like it's something that she couldn't just tell me...but it's more like she doesn't know if he'd be properly punished....so she'll take care of it...because that's how it was when she was little. Who ever took care of the child...punished the child.

 

To be honest, she loves him and he loves her...I think it's more of a problem because I don't feel like it's respectful to decide your way is better than the parent. Of course, I'm sure that she feels like if I trust her...I should trust how she disciplines him. (including spanking)

 

:confused:

 

I grew up the same way; and continue the practice of "whomever cares for the child, disciplines the child" - that said, my kids have only ever been cared for my parents or my siblings. Purposefully.

 

It's a difficult line to walk - being the adult child of someone who helps care for your child (or once did). It's especially difficult when you're ready to evolve the relationship, but are met with resistence (intentional or not). It is absolutely reasonable for you to expect that as the child's mother, you have final say in everything and anything - including discipline. It's also reasonable for your mom to have her own expectations and ways for handling things. Your final say may come in the form of saying no more caretaking IF grandma chooses to spank for every offense; but given how you describe their relationship, I bet that compromise can be found. I'm sure that discussing it with both your son and your mom, and expressing that this 'dilemma' of how to handle discipline could significantly reduce the amount of time they enjoy together, you'll see some effort on both of their parts to find a solution that works for everyone.

 

Maybe it's the wake-up call your son needs to realize how his behavior affects both himself and others around him. Maybe it's the call your mom needs that as important as she is to you and your son (her wisdom and experience aside), that you have definite ideas of what you feel are appropriate situations for spanking (based on your child's personality type and the importance of relative consistency he may require).

 

I've BTDT with my mom about another issue (not disciplinary) :grouphug: it's sometimes hard to pull rank on your own parents, especially if they've been so involved from the beginning. But it can be done, even respectfully. Be very transparent about your concerns, wishes, and issues - not only with your mom, but also with your son. I bet they work through it on their own.

Edited May 26, 2009 by eternalknot

[Ellie]

She was going to take him from church one Sunday about a month ago, and because seating arrangements weren't as he wanted...he ended up bolting from the van and running back to us. She was calling him and he wouldn't come back to her...He was angry.

So, she said that when she kept him, if he didn't obey her...that she would spank him. She had already told him that in her whole life...she had never been defied like this before. No child had ever run away with her calling them...(on and on...she was ticked)

If I saw that my dc were not obeying anyone with whom I had left them, *especially* the grandparents (because obviously, I would't have left the dc with the grandparents if I didn't trust them), I would discipline them myself. It has nothing to do with my being the parent...well, actually, it does, because part of my responsibility is to teach my dc to respect and obey authorities in their lives.

[RhondaM.]

:iagree: We DO spank, however I would have serious issues with anyone else spanking my child...grandparent or not. That being said...my kids know that if they misbehave/disobey while in the care of someone else, when they get home they will have to deal with me...and trust me, they don't want that!

 

:iagree: Same here.

[Kathy in MD]

He, a 6 yo, bolted from her van, possibly into a parking lot because he was mad. And you're upset with your MOTHER?!?!? Your dm probably had heart failure when it happened and I can understand her reaction. She raised you, she helped raise your older dc. What sort of spanker was she then? If she didn't overdo it then, I doubt that she would overdo it now. Sorry, but she was responsible for your ds and he pulled a stunt like that. In my book, if she wants to spank him, she can. This wasn't a minor infraction!!!!!!

 

BTW, my cousin almost lost a toddler because he didn't want to stay with her in the store. He ran out into the drive and darn near got hit. This sort of behavior needs fast and impressive punishment. My cousin's near accident may color my thinking a bit, but this sort of behavior can be life threatening.

 

No one can predict everything, so if your mother is responsible for the saftey of your child, she needs to have the flexibility to deal with his misbehaviors.

[Danestress]

My kids have had a swat or two from me or DH, but I am a pretty reluctant spanker and I would NOT agree to have a grandparent spanking.

 

That said, my children are very close to their grandparents on both sides and stay with them frequently, and for the most part, I'm a firm believer in "Grandma's house, Grandma's rules." I don't tell Grandmas (or Grandpas) what they can feed the children, when they have to go to bed, etc. Sometimes I really have to bite my tongue, but I really try not to be controlling.

 

But that said, spanking would cross a line for me. I simply wouldn't allow it, but I also would just not leave my children with grandparents or sitters if I wasn't sure they would be obedient. I think you should take a break from leaving your son with your Mom. I think you should tell him that his behavior was absolutely inappropriate and you won't leave him with her because he didn't obey her, and make him go with you to whatever lessons your daughter has and MAKE HIM OBEY you the whole time. I would get super super strict about obedience for a while.

 

And after a few months, I would leave DS with GM again when you are closer by, just to see how it goes. I wouldn't stop forever, but I would work very very hard on discipline issues and then see how it goes.

[SonshineLearner]

He, a 6 yo, bolted from her van, possibly into a parking lot because he was mad. And you're upset with your MOTHER?!?!? Your dm probably had heart failure when it happened and I can understand her reaction. She raised you, she helped raise your older dc. What sort of spanker was she then? If she didn't overdo it then, I doubt that she would overdo it now. Sorry, but she was responsible for your ds and he pulled a stunt like that. In my book, if she wants to spank him, she can. This wasn't a minor infraction!!!!!!

 

She didn't spank him when this happened. He wasn't in the street, he ran back into the church to find us. We did take care of the issue with him, running away from an adult is serious, especially when coupled by anger.

 

I did not want her to start spanking him for something like ....common disobedience. (which is what she said she would do if I left him with her from then on...) I would rather he tell me so I can deal with it. (or she could use time-out or something similar.)

 

It wasn't that she was just worried, although she probably was, it was that she took it as a personal insult that he would dare to disobey her. Children disobey. I guess I take it seriously, but not personally.

 

:-)

[cathmom]

She didn't spank him when this happened. He wasn't in the street, he ran back into the church to find us. We did take care of the issue with him, running away from an adult is serious, especially when coupled by anger.

 

I did not want her to start spanking him for something like ....common disobedience. (which is what she said she would do if I left him with her from then on...) I would rather he tell me so I can deal with it. (or she could use time-out or something similar.)

 

It wasn't that she was just worried, although she probably was, it was that she took it as a personal insult that he would dare to disobey her. Children disobey. I guess I take it seriously, but not personally.

 

:-)

 

This is what I got from your story, and it would be a big red flag to me.

[Pamela H in Texas]

it was that she took it as a personal insult that he would dare to disobey her. Children disobey. I guess I take it seriously, but not personally.

 

Taking kids' misbehaviors personally is not good and can be dangerous. Though you've admitted you may not have been consistent enough (something fixable :) ), it is excellent that you are able to not take his behavior personally. I really think a lot of parents could parent more effectively (and without as much punishment) if they'd simply be honest about taking things personally and do something about it. You are a step ahead regarding that :)

[Alicia64]

Yes, I totally think grandma's behavior is creepy because it totally takes the final word about a situation away from you.

 

My parents have absolutely no authority to spank my kids. To add fuel to the fire. . . sorry. . . but I think grandparents get more easily tired out than parents and can lose sight of their better judgment and spank when, if well rested, they might not.

 

I think you have every reason to be seriously concerned about this situation.

 

Also I think the whole "nobody has ever defied me" garbage is scary. Excuse me?! What kind of power trip is that?? Nobody has ever defied her? Welcome to the world, lady, now take a chill pill and figure out a better way of teaching than hitting.

 

Gosh I teach my six year olds that.

 

Alicia

[Renee in NC]

To add fuel to the fire. . . sorry. . . but I think grandparents get more easily tired out than parents and can lose sight of their better judgment and spank when, if well rested, they might not.

 

 

 

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

Sorry! My 49 year old mother might be offended by that remark. Not that she has ever spanked a child of mine, but the thought that she might tire more easily.

[LaxMom]

My SIL told one of my boys she would spank him if he repeated a similar behavior. I have no problem with it. She keeps a class of 20ish special needs and typical four year olds in line all day (obviously without spanking); if she feels the need to put spanking on the table as a possibility, I'll back her.

 

My parents-in-law used to try the non-discipline approach... until Auntie came home one night to discover there had been no nap, the children were in "whirling dervish" mode, and she told her parents very plainly that she was not going to participate in the evening chaos if they weren't going to enforce the rules during the day. They've gotten much better about upholding expectations since then, lol. And, frankly, if one of the children inspired them to a swat on the bottom, I would be inclined to believe the child in question was most deserving of it.

 

This would be a completely different reply if we were fundamentally against corporal punishment, though. It's not our preferred method, but not out of the question, either.

[Pamela H in Texas]

My parents-in-law used to try the non-discipline approach.

 

I'm sure YOU know this, but just to state the obvious because I CANNOT let it go:

 

Not spanking does NOT equal "non-discipline."

 

I am one of the strictest parents/caregivers almost anyone who knows me knows. I just don't have to hit a kid in order to discipline. IN fact, *I* rarely use punishment at all. But discipline I do and do A LOT.

 

Kids NEED boundaries, guidance, structure, help, teaching, correction, redirection, consistency, etc. Punishment is simply ONE aspect of discipline and it's the one most easily avoided if a parent/caregiver is good at the other aspects.

 

Anyway, again, I'm sure you get this though it seems like whole states worth of people do not. I just couldn't let it go just in case someone reading this needed to know there really is a difference. A LOT of spankers aren't effective at disciplining either. Almost EVERYONE here spanks (often regularly and/or harshly); too bad they can't learn to discipline effectively instead (or at least also).

[LaxMom]

I'm sure YOU know this, but just to state the obvious because I CANNOT let it go:

 

Not spanking does NOT equal "non-discipline."

 

I am one of the strictest parents/caregivers almost anyone who knows me knows. I just don't have to hit a kid in order to discipline. IN fact, *I* rarely use punishment at all. But discipline I do and do A LOT.

 

Kids NEED boundaries, guidance, structure, help, teaching, correction, redirection, consistency, etc. Punishment is simply ONE aspect of discipline and it's the one most easily avoided if a parent/caregiver is good at the other aspects.

 

Anyway, again, I'm sure you get this though it seems like whole states worth of people do not. I just couldn't let it go just in case someone reading this needed to know there really is a difference. A LOT of spankers aren't effective at disciplining either. Almost EVERYONE here spanks (often regularly and/or harshly); too bad they can't learn to discipline effectively instead (or at least also).

 

Yes, I was referring to the lack of boundaries, guidance, structure, etc. in the "doting grandparents" way, specifically a lack of discipline of any kind. They have learned, by consequences, that "doting" is not synonymous with "no rules", and now enforce expectations - like eating, quiet time, pleasant behavior - in gentle, age and situation appropriate ways.

 

I was merely pondering the contrast between their previous "no rules" approach and the concept of them feeling some behavior was so egregious as to deserve a swat and what it would take to get there... it would take a lot.

 

I wasn't clear, and appreciate your clarification. We do take a guiding approach to behavior and rule enforcement, and rarely have to punish in any way, let alone corporal punishment, because we do not let things escalate that far. Some days, though, it seems like there is a LOT of time-out. :glare:

Edited May 27, 2009 by MyCrazyHouse

[Kate in VA]

Honestly, I have no problem with my parents spanking.... I think they have needed to once or so b/c my dd ran away (thinking she was playing) at the store and they were very scared (she had never done that before):confused:

I have even told my in-laws that it is ok.... They say they wouldn't be able to b/c see is too cute (they have an only boy----- what newbies!:lol:) but they know that they can if something is serious enough... and I trust them.....

And I know the same goes for me with my nephew when he is with me.... I have had to "yell" at him but not needed to spank........

 

However I think that your son running away b/c he didn't like the seating arrangements should warrant a spanking. Keep in mind the seriousness of what could have happened..... He could have been hit by a car..... Also to let him understand that that is very disrespectful to his G-mom..... and that we don't always get our way when we want to.....

 

Please understand that I don't spank at the drop of a hat.... it works when the it is needed.....

I personally feel that when someone is watching my child that they are acting in as Me when something like this happens.... If anyone watching my child doesn't understand that then I just don't leave them with those people.... (my dd only stays with family not friends or babysitters)

 

Just my 2 cents..... take it for just that :tongue_smilie:

Kate