When has a woman crossed the line between friendly conversation and flirting?

[Blueridge]

As some of you may or may not know, I'm a paramedic. . .

We're together 24 hours...and I do mean together. We work, eat, cuss, play, and occasionally sleep together for the time we're on duty.

 

 

Are you saying that you and your co-worker are sharing the same bed while on duty? Please say it ain't so.

[Blueridge]

This thread is starting to break my heart. I feel badly for the OP. I feel so hurt for the ladies who have experienced this kind of loss in their marriages. I worry for those who do not think it could happen to them...and I pray it never does. I guess until a woman finds herself in this type of situation, there is no way to anticipate how she will react. I say a prayer each morning to place a hedge of protection around my dh. I have faith that he is keeping his guard up when he is away. I recognize that marriages are meant to be for a lifetime and worth the effort to protect. I thank you all for your transparency and honesty.

Edited May 27, 2009 by Blueridge
adding

[brehon]

Are you saying that you and your co-worker are sharing the same bed while on duty? Please say it ain't so.

:D :lol::lol::lol::smilielol5:

 

 

It ain't so....:D

 

Well, you really had me laughing out loud there. I didn't even consider how one might think that when I wrote it. No, we don't share the same bed; the same room, yes. Occasionally, on a long fire stand-by or meth lab bust in the middle of the night, I get the stretcher and he gets the bench seat in the back of the ambulance.

 

That's as close as we get to sleeping in the same bed...

 

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[Tammy]

Exactly....I don't have the time or willingness to wonder what my dh does when he isn't home. Like you said....if someone else can have him so easily.....so long, LOL. I would not be married to a man I couldn't trust 100 percent.

[Blueridge]

:D :lol::lol::lol::smilielol5:

 

 

It ain't so....:D

 

Well, you really had me laughing out loud there. I didn't even consider how one might think that when I wrote it. No, we don't share the same bed; the same room, yes. Occasionally, on a long fire stand-by or meth lab bust in the middle of the night, I get the stretcher and he gets the bench seat in the back of the ambulance.

 

That's as close as we get to sleeping in the same bed...

 

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

Thank you for clarifying! It was getting sorta uncomfortable slouching down here on the floor after fainting, so now I can get up! :D

[Paula in PA]

Our marriage was almost destroyed b/c a friendship my dh developed with a gal he worked with kept getting more & more intimate. It turned into an emotional affair where he began confiding in her rather than me which put distance between us. She began to put thoughts in his head about the state of our marriage when everything had been fine before.

 

It started very innocent & he did tell me about her & their friendship at the beginning. I thought that meant there was nothing to worry about & so I didn't. After a time, he began to keep their friendship & conversations a secret. By the time I realized how far things had gone, inappropraite emails & texts were being exchanged :glare:

 

Looking back, it's amazing how quickly something (or someone) can bring down your marriage. We are very careful about opposite s*x relationships now!!

 

:grouphug::grouphug: Oh my, I could have written this. You are so right on how quickly it can change. We, too, must now be careful and he now knows what the boundaries are (not to mention the consequences). Perhaps that experience makes us more sensitive to the whole situation the OP described.

[wendow1]

I am sorry! :grouphug: I am also thankful you two were able to grow through this and strengthen your relationship even more!

 

Thank you :) We are much stronger now!

[wendow1]

:grouphug::grouphug: Oh my, I could have written this. You are so right on how quickly it can change. We, too, must now be careful and he now knows what the boundaries are (not to mention the consequences). Perhaps that experience makes us more sensitive to the whole situation the OP described.

 

I'm so sorry you've BTDT also. It does make me more sensitive to what the OP is describing. I just know where it can head so quickly. My dh is/was a good guy--involved husband & father. We never went out without each other, we weren't party-type people. But my dh didn't set good boundaries b/c no one he worked with did. He didn't think anything of it & neither did I. Anyway, :grouphug: to you also!!

[VanessaS]

If your dh mentioned it to you to see what you thought about it, he must have sensed something not quite right w/it. If both of you have concerns then it is wise for him to put up a boundary. That's what I'd want my dh to do in the same situation.

I totally agree. Your DH probably has other female coworkers that speak to him but he felt uncomfortable about this particular one. That means something.

And the difference between flirting and chatting is in the mannerism and intensity. He's a married man so he's probably not oblivious to the signs.

He should just handle it by being a bit more cool and reserved. He could still speak "small talk" to her but after a few minutes turn away and say, "Well... I've got to get back to work now. See you around." After he does it a few times, she'll get the hint.

 

I guess my shock is that so MANY people find extramarital sex such a strong temptation, or fear that their spouse does, and arrange their married lives around that fact.

Umm... It is a strong temptation, for both sexes. It's usually not a problem when the marriage is happy and healthy but when you have some sort of marital problems and you have not set boundaries ahead of time, it can become a problem. And a lot of us travel or work a lot of overtime. Things are complicated. Is it okay for me to go out to lunch with my colleague? What about dinner? A drink afterward? What if we're sharing the same hotel? Taxi?

If you haven't had any personal contact with them before than sharing a hotel is a non-issue. But if you have, then having breakfast together can become intimate.

I used to work at a few engineering firms and you could always tell who was going to have an affair way in advance. The ones that set firm boundaries weren't thrown when the new baby arrived or the promotion fell through or the wife went back to college. The others mostly did. I've seen it happen over and over. My DH and I agreed on the boundaries before we were even married because we've both been witness to it in the past.

 

And I think a lot of us are just responding to the fact that other people don't value our marriage as highly as we do. Getting a married person into your bed has become a bit of a national hobby. When I was working a female colleague of mine was bragging about sleeping with a married man and when I expressed my distaste at her behaviour she just rolled her eyes and said, "Oh, please! This isn't the Dark Ages!" And everybody laughed. That is the attitude we're dealing with today. Sad, but true.

 

If the woman "stops by" frequently, then she does not have enough work to do. (I did not see anybody mention that obvious point !)

I had the same thought. Doesn't she have work to do? Speaking of which, I need to go cook dinner... Edited May 26, 2009 by VanessaS

[Cindy in the NH Woods]

I don't have but a minute..........go check her out, make yourself known and flatten her if needed.

 

 

Oh, I love this! You are a woman after my own heart!

 

Ahem... Anyway, I would be suspect of any woman going out of their way to chat up my dh. I don't care if it is Mother Theresa. :D How much better to keep conversion casual, and pertinent to work especially when the other spouse is not around? It seems this practice is very anti-cultural here, but how easy it becomes to develop an intimate relationship, if only an emotional one, to someone we may be attracted to just as a "friend". Why is it somehow wiser to see how far we can get to the fire before getting hurt, rather than having firewalls in place to begin with?

 

Interestingly, several years ago, a female friend of ours had mentioned wanting to go fishing (alone) with my husband. I was even present when she mentioned it. (Dh and I still laugh about this.) Anyway, she sadly became involved in an internet "love affair", and is divorcing her husband. I'm not trying to proof text here, but over 22 years of marriage we have cried with many people who made or are suffering from some heart- wrenchingly bad choices. Some began in the workplace. In small increments. At first. Any of us can be tempted. I personally think it is dangerous to think we are immune.

 

Ducking and weaving now!

Edited May 26, 2009 by Cindy in the NH Woods

[LaxMom]

As some of you may or may not know, I'm a paramedic. I work the standard 24 hr on/48 hour off shift. My current partner is male. We've been together for, umm, 5 years. That equates to 2 pregnancies/nursing/pumping on my end and 3 miscarriages for he and his wife on his end.

 

We're together 24 hours...and I do mean together. We work, eat, cuss, play, and occasionally sleep together for the time we're on duty.

 

<go ahead, pick your jaws up off the floor...i'll wait...:D>

 

...

 

And, as "the wife" in a similar equation, I expect the same sort of closeness with anyone - male or female - my husband is partnered with for any period of time. It is the culture of the department.

 

The running joke when we were first married was that my husband slept with my best friend every third night... except when he slept with Dave. :D

[Rita]

Any of us can be tempted. I personally think it is dangerous to think we are immune.

 

Ducking and weaving now!

 

Don't duck and weave. You wrote a wise post! It is dangerous to think that we're immune!

I trust my husband 100%, but I take care to make sure that he is happy and content at home. I try not to nag and complain. I try to build up, not tear him down. I pay attention when he talks to me. All that being said, we are human and subject to temptations!

6 months ago I would have sworn up and down that he would never have an affair. That was before my friend's husband had an affair. My friend's dh was a godly, godly man. They were married well over 20 years. This is the last man you would think would have an affair. Then I found out another super good friend's husband had an affair one year into the marriage. I was shocked. Once again, a godly, upright man. No one is safe.

For those who want to know if "the other woman" is pretty...that doesn't make a bit of difference. Look at Christie Brinkley...one of the most beautiful women in the world...and her husband cheated on her. Affairs are NOT about looks.

And for those who wouldn't fight another woman for their husbands?? I sincerely hope you never have to, but for me....I'll do whatever it takes (legally!!) to protect my marriage and my spouse.

stepping off my soap box now.

 

Rita

[Kay in Cal]

Don't duck and weave. You wrote a wise post! It is dangerous to think that we're immune!

I trust my husband 100%, but I take care to make sure that he is happy and content at home. I try not to nag and complain. I try to build up, not tear him down. I pay attention when he talks to me.

 

Now, I think there is a difference between thinking we are immune, and thinking that a woman who speaks to our husband in a friendly way is about to leap into bed with him. I want my husband to be happy and content with our marriage as well... but not from fear, from love. He is my favorite person in the world, my partner--of course I want him to be happy, and he wants me to be happy in general and with our marriage in particular.

 

It is too bad about your friends. I've been there... I had a good *female* friend in whom I was very disappointed when she was unfaithful. But there were other problems in her marriage, she was cruising sex sites on the internet, and the adultery was a symptom of a lot of disfunction between her and her dh. But it had nothing to do with a man who was her friend saying "hi" or having lunch with her.

 

Now, if the question was "My husband likes to hang out at strip bars" or "We never talk" or "Where is he when he stays late for work", that, I might understand the worry. It's the idea that any relationship with the opposite sex is a gateway to sin that doesnt' sit well with me. It seems to discount personal responsibility.

 

There are so many folks here who disagree with me, that I brought it up with my dh. He thought it was pretty ridiculous to worry about a friendly coworker.

[Catwoman]

Now, if the question was "My husband likes to hang out at strip bars" or "We never talk" or "Where is he when he stays late for work", that, I might understand the worry. It's the idea that any relationship with the opposite sex is a gateway to sin that doesnt' sit well with me. It seems to discount personal responsibility.

 

 

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

Cat

[Peela]

I'm not immune to jealousy and over reacting, and neither is my dh. However, we keep the communication channels open, and neither of us want to feel we are imprisoned, or that we can't have genuine friendships with the opposite sex. We both have colourful pasts, and we are not naive about where any friendship could go...but gee, the cost of cutting off from all members of the opposite sex wouldn't be worth it to either of us to have a secure marriage. But we try and take care of the other's feelings, even if they're irrational.

In work situations.....well, it would be a shame if everyone had to stay closed to each other, only talk about work, keep their eyes down etc. My dh has plenty of female clients- and sometimes they really have come onto him. He tells me though, and he deals with it.

Perhaps for some people who have been sheltered from a lot of mixed sex mingling, who married early or havent had many partners before they married- its an unknown and scary world when someone talks to their mate. But if you have been around the block a few times, you can usually pick up what is going on, how far someone would go, and for most people I mix with in real life, its no big deal unless your radar goes off and says it is.

[KingM]

Sounds like I'm in the minority here, but I want my wife to have good friendships outside of marriage, and I'm not jealous if some of those friendships are men. Friendships are a wonderful part of life and how sad to think that men can only be friends with men and women with women.

 

My wife knows her boundaries, and I trust her to talk to me if something grows to a level that makes her uncomfortable.

[Heather in Neverland]

Don't duck and weave. You wrote a wise post! It is dangerous to think that we're immune!

 

And for those who wouldn't fight another woman for their husbands?? I sincerely hope you never have to, but for me....I'll do whatever it takes (legally!!) to protect my marriage and my spouse.

stepping off my soap box now.

 

Rita

 

I absolutely do not think we are immune. In fact, my personal belief is, given a certain set of circumstances the majority of men would cheat. My father was the youth pastor of our church and he cheated on my mom for years. I don't put it past any man (or most women for that matter). So we do have to guard ourselves from certain situations and take action. That's why I said the OP's dh needs to take action if he feels this woman is flirting with him. But I don't think that means never speak to a person of the opposite sex.

 

As far as "fighting" with another woman for my marriage? Forget it. Do you think I am going to sit there with my hand up saying "Oh please pick me, pick me" like I am a contestant on The Bachelor? After everything I have done for him all these years? After I have been a good and faithful wife to him? After I gave birth to his child? FORGET IT. If there is a "choice" to be made in his mind, then there is no choice. I would be out of there so fast the door would NOT hit me on the way out and I would not shed one single tear. HE would be the one crying.

Edited May 27, 2009 by Heather in NC

[HeatherLynn]

If your DH feels she is flirting, she probably is. However, my DH is blind to that sort of thing until it is blatantly obvious. Boundaries are never a bad thing even if it is just innocent on her part.

[lynn]

It's funny how posts can evolve as they get longer. I am not worried at all, I trust dh completely. I am just curious what other womens thoughts were regarding the line between friendly conversation and flirting.

[Blueridge]

It's funny how posts can evolve as they get longer. I am not worried at all, I trust dh completely. I am just curious what other womens thoughts were regarding the line between friendly conversation and flirting.

I was wondering if you were reading some of these responses to your dh to get his opinion. Do you think he now sees this woman as a 'snake in the grass' or just a pleasant co-worker, or an aggravation? I think the 'line' between the two is very subtle and difficult to distinguish. There are too many invisible factors involved. I'm glad you're not worried.

[stripe]

As far as "fighting" with another woman for my marriage? Forget it. Do you think I am going to sit there with my hand up saying "Oh please pick me, pick me" like I am a contestant on The Bachelor? After everything I have done for him all these years? After I have been a good and faithful wife to him? After I gave birth to his child? FORGET IT. If there is a "choice" to be made in his mind, then there is no choice. I would be out of there so fast the door would NOT hit me on the way out and I would not shed one single tear. HE would be the one crying.

We are of the same mind on this one!

 

I think chatting, especially when it's about about kids and family, is not flirting. It's just normal office chit chat. If it gets into talking about how great she is because she visits her mother and volunteers at a homeless shelter, or how she just got her first brazilian wax, and any comment along the line of "my man is always satisfied," or cleavage getting flashed, OR how she is sure he's so great, and so on, that's a different matter.

[VanessaS]

I trust my husband 100%, but I take care to make sure that he is happy and content at home.

I trust God 100% and my husband 99.99%. LOL! Everyone can slip up or have a weak moment. We're just human. Boundaries are good. It doesn't mean that my husband can't have a normal conversation with another woman.

 

To the OP: it didn't sound like you were worried. But if he took notice of it enough to mention it to you, it was flirting, regardless of what she said.

 

And, as a recovering former (terrible and very successful) flirt, I can tell you: they never start off with uncommon speech. It's pure body language. The brilliant smile when you seem him. The look of attentiveness to every mundane conversation. Seeming amazed at the smallest accomplishments. Being sympathetic to their problems and difficulties. Men just eat that stuff up (and yes, it doesn't matter what she looks like). They love attention.

 

After all, men are like frogs: if you put them right into hot water even the slow ones will jump out. The trick is to warm up r...e...a...l... slowly until they're cooked through. I say: don't even give them the chance to turn on the stove.

Or is that an inappropriate simile?

 

Or, to quote Proverbs 7:

 

With her many persuasions she entices him;

With her flattering lips she seduces him.

Suddenly he follows her

As an ox goes to the slaughter.

[Melinda in VT]

I'm surprised at how many people think the mere fact that her DH mentioned this means the woman was flirting.

 

Maybe DH and I just talk too much, but we routinely relate anecdotes or conversations we've had with friends and co-workers, male and female. Not because we're uncomfortable with the conversation, but because we found it interesting or funny or it reminded us of something else. It's how we share our day.

 

Now, if her DH said, "This woman at work keeps talking to me and it's really starting to bother me" then I can see thinking there is a problem.

Edited May 27, 2009 by Melinda in VT
typo

[Cheryl in NM]

I used to feel this way also. I was very jealous and insecure in dh's feelings for me. That's what it all boiled down to. My dh is friendly and willing to help those in need. My attitude had to change when he was put into a cubicle with a woman at work. They work 12 hour shifts. I was very jealous at first, even though she was married. I didn't even meet her for years. At some point I started feeling sorry for the poor lady (dh is pretty gassy!:D). Then I realized that they helped each other through some struggles, professionally and personally. Dh would even go to her house after work to work on her computer. I was always welcome to come, but the logistics didn't work out. Anyway, it all sounds really bad on the surface, but she is a great friend to my dh and I love her for it. I know that I can't be all to my dh and sometimes he needs a fresh opinion. We recently had her and her dh over for dinner. It was great. He dh and mine both bow hunt and have other outdoorsy stuff in common.

 

Again, it took me years to understand this. I think your dh knows if this woman is flirting. It boils down to your dh needs the job to provide for his family and you trust him. If she is truly flirting I would be a supportive wife and make sure my dh knows that I love him and trust him. Not all men are nymphomaniacs just looking for the chance to cheat on their wives. That's actually quite a put down to a poor man. "Poor thing, he just can't control himself around a woman other than his wife or in the face of a flirting woman." Imagine how insulted we, as women, would feel if our husbands were jealous of a man talking to us.

[Remudamom]

 

As far as "fighting" with another woman for my marriage? Forget it. Do you think I am going to sit there with my hand up saying "Oh please pick me, pick me" like I am a contestant on The Bachelor? After everything I have done for him all these years? After I have been a good and faithful wife to him? After I gave birth to his child? FORGET IT. If there is a "choice" to be made in his mind, then there is no choice. I would be out of there so fast the door would NOT hit me on the way out and I would not shed one single tear. HE would be the one crying.

 

 

Love this, only I wouldn't be the one out the door, HE would be. I like it here.